Rumors of Roczen to Suzuki

Johnny Ringo
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11/4/2022 6:22pm
Tim507 wrote:
Did Suzuki ever use the one year exemption?
DownSouth wrote:
They used it with Sebastien Tortelli when the RMZ 450 first came out.
Yep Seb in SX and RC in MX
Spoonguy
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11/5/2022 4:44am
ga_pike wrote:
What is it about the Suzuki platform that makes people think it's not competitive? You can throw out HP and suspension because both of those would...
What is it about the Suzuki platform that makes people think it's not competitive? You can throw out HP and suspension because both of those would be built to spec. There have even been threads about "detuning" factory 450s to make them more ridable. They can shave weight through various methods. Add in the historically well respected Suzuki ergonomics and it seems to me that the only thing holding the Suzuki back is the lack of E-start. All these bikes are so good anymore. Add in what Pro Circuit (or whomever) can do with the motor and some full blown factory suspension and I feel like the Zook could be just as competitive as any other bike on the track.

Spoonguy wrote:
All great points. Perhaps the negativity against Suzuki is based upon the half assed and lazy approach the company itself has to our sport rather than...
All great points. Perhaps the negativity against Suzuki is based upon the half assed and lazy approach the company itself has to our sport rather than the bikes themselves. From the pullout in MotoGP and MXGP to no substantial investments in developing much of anything in their range of motorcycles, they have been embarrassing themselves for a decade or more. Leaving behind a legacy rich with riders like Decoster, Barnett, Sheene, Mamola, Howerton, shame.
ga_pike wrote:
I get that... but at the end of the day, they've made a business decision. While we in the motocross (or other motorcycle disciplines) may not...
I get that... but at the end of the day, they've made a business decision. While we in the motocross (or other motorcycle disciplines) may not like their decisions, they're doing what they think is best for their company. I guess the question becomes what actual benefit do manufacturers get from professional racing? Does win on Saturday, sell on Monday still ring true? Do you buy a certain brand because of what your favorite pro rides? To a point we should be thankful they continue to offer choices instead of simply pulling out all together. I do think they could come in at a lower price point and really penetrate the market more effectively but that's up to them.

If Roczen happens to go to Suzuki with HEP, it will be interesting to see what type and how much Suzuki decides to put into the program and future development.
I don't know if you understand the point. Everyone on this forum is passionate about the sport of motorcycling. That Suzuki shows indifference or apathy over something that consumes a lot of our lives feels a betrayal. Especially after they brought so much history to the sport. That relatively tiny manufacturers such as Triumph, Beta, TM, and now it appears Ducati show more interest than Suzuki makes it all the worse. Nobody gives a shit what makes the decision for them, business or otherwise. When a lot of us think of motocross, we think of Suzuki riders, Decoster, Barnett, Wolsink, Robert....
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11/6/2022 4:33am
aeffertz wrote:
They made a big push for AC as well but we all saw how that panned out. (It didn’t) I have a feeling Suzuki needs to...
They made a big push for AC as well but we all saw how that panned out. (It didn’t)

I have a feeling Suzuki needs to at the very least get an electric start before a guy at that caliber will sign up to ride it.
Snapper wrote:
What does an electric start have to do with the performance of a bike?
It’s symbolic of their attitude towards R&D.
What a stupid idea not to develop the bike to have an electric start. It must be costing them millions in sales
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davis224
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11/6/2022 4:59am
aeffertz wrote:
They made a big push for AC as well but we all saw how that panned out. (It didn’t) I have a feeling Suzuki needs to...
They made a big push for AC as well but we all saw how that panned out. (It didn’t)

I have a feeling Suzuki needs to at the very least get an electric start before a guy at that caliber will sign up to ride it.
Snapper wrote:
What does an electric start have to do with the performance of a bike?
It’s symbolic of their attitude towards R&D. What a stupid idea not to develop the bike to have an electric start. It must be costing them...
It’s symbolic of their attitude towards R&D.
What a stupid idea not to develop the bike to have an electric start. It must be costing them millions in sales
How many mx bikes do you think they sell/how high do you think the markup is?

The Shop

11/6/2022 3:33pm
sam hain wrote:


Bring the price point down like MXA suggests and it would be a perfect entry level bike to grow local racing.
MXA is part of the reason everyone who’s never touched an RMZ450 talks shit about them.
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mb60
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11/6/2022 4:27pm
sam hain wrote:


Bring the price point down like MXA suggests and it would be a perfect entry level bike to grow local racing.
mattyhamz2 wrote:
MXA is part of the reason everyone who’s never touched an RMZ450 talks shit about them.
It's not everyone talking shit about them. Just imagine the average Joe that is considering a new 250 or 450. Let's face it 9k is a lot of money to buy a new bike. Why would anyone consider a bike with no electric start or updates in the last few years. We know the bike can be competitive but I will be dam to spend that money on a bike not updated. The sad thing is they have the design for updates and e start but keep producing bng.
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11/6/2022 6:31pm
Hey MB - yes the bike can be competitive. And you can pick them up for less than other models. This should be the bike for your average joe and you not so average joe since it is good right out of the box and can be upgraded to be very competitive - you just need to kick start it.
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mb60
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11/6/2022 7:54pm Edited Date/Time 11/6/2022 7:55pm
Spat24 wrote:
Hey MB - yes the bike can be competitive. And you can pick them up for less than other models. This should be the bike for...
Hey MB - yes the bike can be competitive. And you can pick them up for less than other models. This should be the bike for your average joe and you not so average joe since it is good right out of the box and can be upgraded to be very competitive - you just need to kick start it.
The average Joe is not going to buy it to upgrade it. And they dam sure are not going to buy it to ride in the woods and stall only to kick it. Regardless E start is not that expensive considering that they had the technology 10 years a go on the x version. I will say it again just compare it to a new truck with roll up windows. I can save $ 1500 with roll up windows you say ??? I'm spending x amount of money already so just give me power windows and thank you. As a kid that grew up racing a rm 80 please keep them going for the industry. But don't give me the story that it does not play a big part in the sales of the bike.
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brocster
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11/6/2022 8:00pm Edited Date/Time 11/6/2022 8:02pm
sam hain wrote:


Bring the price point down like MXA suggests and it would be a perfect entry level bike to grow local racing.
mattyhamz2 wrote:
MXA is part of the reason everyone who’s never touched an RMZ450 talks shit about them.
mb60 wrote:
It's not everyone talking shit about them. Just imagine the average Joe that is considering a new 250 or 450. Let's face it 9k is a...
It's not everyone talking shit about them. Just imagine the average Joe that is considering a new 250 or 450. Let's face it 9k is a lot of money to buy a new bike. Why would anyone consider a bike with no electric start or updates in the last few years. We know the bike can be competitive but I will be dam to spend that money on a bike not updated. The sad thing is they have the design for updates and e start but keep producing bng.
What updates are you talking about? Minus the electric start it has everything that the recreational rider//racer needs and more. Want some extra goodies? Use the money you saved on MSRP to purchase “more power”, “lighter weight” etc. etc and guess what, still going to go the same speed. It’s crazy that we think these things “aren’t good enough”
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Spoonguy
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11/7/2022 4:01am
sam hain wrote:


Bring the price point down like MXA suggests and it would be a perfect entry level bike to grow local racing.
mattyhamz2 wrote:
MXA is part of the reason everyone who’s never touched an RMZ450 talks shit about them.
Is MXA the reason Suzuki doesn't make cruisers, side by sides, a touring bike, or update the once legendary GSXR? Is MXA the reason Suzuki pulled their winning MotoGP team or doesn't race MXGP? Is MXA the reason Suzuki's car division got fined? And who cares if a RMZ is inexpensive, you can't resell one for anything once you are done with it. Fan boys don't realize Suzuki's business plan is to coast while milking hardcore fans for money.
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ga_pike
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11/7/2022 4:54am
Spoonguy wrote:
I don't know if you understand the point. Everyone on this forum is passionate about the sport of motorcycling. That Suzuki shows indifference or apathy over...
I don't know if you understand the point. Everyone on this forum is passionate about the sport of motorcycling. That Suzuki shows indifference or apathy over something that consumes a lot of our lives feels a betrayal. Especially after they brought so much history to the sport. That relatively tiny manufacturers such as Triumph, Beta, TM, and now it appears Ducati show more interest than Suzuki makes it all the worse. Nobody gives a shit what makes the decision for them, business or otherwise. When a lot of us think of motocross, we think of Suzuki riders, Decoster, Barnett, Wolsink, Robert....
And none of that matters. None.

If everyone ran business off "the good old days" everyone would go out of business. Suzuki doesn't owe anybody anything. They have absolutely ZERO responsibility to you, me, or any other motorcycle fan to develop updated bikes. Does it suck? Sure it does. I'm a life long Suzuki guy. Only brand I've ever ridden outside of KX 60's. But obviously their focus is somewhere else.
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seth505
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11/7/2022 12:03pm Edited Date/Time 11/7/2022 1:41pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
MXA is part of the reason everyone who’s never touched an RMZ450 talks shit about them.
mb60 wrote:
It's not everyone talking shit about them. Just imagine the average Joe that is considering a new 250 or 450. Let's face it 9k is a...
It's not everyone talking shit about them. Just imagine the average Joe that is considering a new 250 or 450. Let's face it 9k is a lot of money to buy a new bike. Why would anyone consider a bike with no electric start or updates in the last few years. We know the bike can be competitive but I will be dam to spend that money on a bike not updated. The sad thing is they have the design for updates and e start but keep producing bng.
brocster wrote:
What updates are you talking about? Minus the electric start it has everything that the recreational rider//racer needs and more. Want some extra goodies? Use the...
What updates are you talking about? Minus the electric start it has everything that the recreational rider//racer needs and more. Want some extra goodies? Use the money you saved on MSRP to purchase “more power”, “lighter weight” etc. etc and guess what, still going to go the same speed. It’s crazy that we think these things “aren’t good enough”
People get caught up in a numbers game and don't even realize what would help them go faster sometimes (lap times). The Zuk gets shit on for being "down on power" yet the average rider can't over-ride any 450 out there, never mind the yellow one.

Look at that latest 250/350/450 shootout and actually listen to Jacob Hayes (who is pro level fast). He rode on the mellow map with the 450 and felt better/more in control on the smaller bikes. Yet the average C rider thinks they need a high comp piston and engine work to make the RMZ competitive in their local C race. Get outta heeeeere

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Johnny Ringo
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11/7/2022 12:11pm
I always enjoyed the fox look on Suzuki’s

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MotofactioN
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11/7/2022 5:22pm
I see myself going back to an RMZ450 in the future. We have unfinished business. I felt comfortable on the bike, very very predictable with what it would do it the air/in corners, ect.

I’ve become way better of a rider as of lately since switching to a kx250f. The 450 was just too much for me at my skill level, but when I go back to the rmz, I will make sure to change the engine mount torque, and swap the BFRC for a 250 shock. Hopefully I can buy the 2018 I sold when I’m ready. Cool
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11/7/2022 5:54pm Edited Date/Time 11/7/2022 6:38pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Someone in Hamamatsu better be figuring out to make 400 units with the RMX-Z cases REAL QUICK (e-start engine). Grinning
if its an oem part i think they can run it right?
SoCalMX70 wrote:
Why would they do that? There's no reason to add weight for e-start. It ain't happening.
Honda deleted the electric start and went back to kickstart on Kenny's bike per his preference in 2018.
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11/7/2022 11:34pm
I support this move to Suzuki. Let's do it.
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Sandusky26
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11/8/2022 12:09am
I see myself going back to an RMZ450 in the future. We have unfinished business. I felt comfortable on the bike, very very predictable with what...
I see myself going back to an RMZ450 in the future. We have unfinished business. I felt comfortable on the bike, very very predictable with what it would do it the air/in corners, ect.

I’ve become way better of a rider as of lately since switching to a kx250f. The 450 was just too much for me at my skill level, but when I go back to the rmz, I will make sure to change the engine mount torque, and swap the BFRC for a 250 shock. Hopefully I can buy the 2018 I sold when I’m ready. Cool
I told you.
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Gordon Liddy
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11/8/2022 4:00am Edited Date/Time 11/8/2022 4:01am
Men used a Kickstart for decades. I'm not sure which gender these folks are today who think electric start is mandatory.
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Gravel
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11/8/2022 6:02am
About the Suzuki..

It only takes one time where you’re stuck in a tight spot, stalled, and have to kick a hot bike over a few dozen times to get it started. And then you stall it again. Meanwhile, your buddy has started and stopped a few times trying to help you and each time simply pushed a button to get moving again. To make damn sure you never get kickstart bike again..

That’s why bikes need electric start, and especially why newbie bikes need electric start. And it’s why the idea of a RMZ as a entry level race bike/trail bike is shot down by the kickstart. An experienced rider can deal with a kickstart just fine, but he’s probably riding a bike with a magic button already..

As to what KR ends up riding, I generally don’t care as long as he makes it to A1!
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dang472
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11/8/2022 6:23am
When I win the Powerball I’m setting aside $100mil to get JGR back to the races, sign Roczen, produce 400 225lb e-start new Gen RMZs, AND make Suzuki produce a 350.
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mxav8r
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11/8/2022 6:37am Edited Date/Time 11/8/2022 6:37am
Honda deleted the electric start and went back to kickstart on Kenny's bike per his preference in 2018.
Not true at all. Show one picture of Roczen's (I'm assuming that's who you're talking about) bike with a kickstarter during the 2018 season.
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stremme12
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11/8/2022 7:24am
Honda deleted the electric start and went back to kickstart on Kenny's bike per his preference in 2018.
mxav8r wrote:
Not true at all. Show one picture of Roczen's (I'm assuming that's who you're talking about) bike with a kickstarter during the 2018 season.

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11/8/2022 7:27am Edited Date/Time 11/8/2022 7:52am
Honda deleted the electric start and went back to kickstart on Kenny's bike per his preference in 2018.
mxav8r wrote:
Not true at all. Show one picture of Roczen's (I'm assuming that's who you're talking about) bike with a kickstarter during the 2018 season.


2019 mxa CRF450 test:
"Ken Roczen removed the electric starter motor, battery, starter gear sets and wiring harness during the 2018 AMA 450 Nationals... but we doubt that Honda will let him do that again."

Brayton also was running the kickstart in his huge Daytona win the same year:


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DEMONDAVE
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11/8/2022 7:47am
Gravel wrote:
About the Suzuki.. It only takes one time where you’re stuck in a tight spot, stalled, and have to kick a hot bike over a few...
About the Suzuki..

It only takes one time where you’re stuck in a tight spot, stalled, and have to kick a hot bike over a few dozen times to get it started. And then you stall it again. Meanwhile, your buddy has started and stopped a few times trying to help you and each time simply pushed a button to get moving again. To make damn sure you never get kickstart bike again..

That’s why bikes need electric start, and especially why newbie bikes need electric start. And it’s why the idea of a RMZ as a entry level race bike/trail bike is shot down by the kickstart. An experienced rider can deal with a kickstart just fine, but he’s probably riding a bike with a magic button already..

As to what KR ends up riding, I generally don’t care as long as he makes it to A1!
The sun dropped behind the mountain range to the west, suddenly the air turned cold, he feels it.
It’s been a full day riding his new “$12,800 + factory edition”, he’s tired but glad he didn’t buy an outdated bike with a caveman kick start level, as he adjusts his Oakley goggles he chuckles to himself about the caveman kicker.
Ready to go the quick 30 or so minutes back to his truck he pushes the “magic” button and click click click…………………….
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Gravel
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11/8/2022 7:59am
Gravel wrote:
About the Suzuki.. It only takes one time where you’re stuck in a tight spot, stalled, and have to kick a hot bike over a few...
About the Suzuki..

It only takes one time where you’re stuck in a tight spot, stalled, and have to kick a hot bike over a few dozen times to get it started. And then you stall it again. Meanwhile, your buddy has started and stopped a few times trying to help you and each time simply pushed a button to get moving again. To make damn sure you never get kickstart bike again..

That’s why bikes need electric start, and especially why newbie bikes need electric start. And it’s why the idea of a RMZ as a entry level race bike/trail bike is shot down by the kickstart. An experienced rider can deal with a kickstart just fine, but he’s probably riding a bike with a magic button already..

As to what KR ends up riding, I generally don’t care as long as he makes it to A1!
DEMONDAVE wrote:
The sun dropped behind the mountain range to the west, suddenly the air turned cold, he feels it. It’s been a full day riding his new...
The sun dropped behind the mountain range to the west, suddenly the air turned cold, he feels it.
It’s been a full day riding his new “$12,800 + factory edition”, he’s tired but glad he didn’t buy an outdated bike with a caveman kick start level, as he adjusts his Oakley goggles he chuckles to himself about the caveman kicker.
Ready to go the quick 30 or so minutes back to his truck he pushes the “magic” button and click click click…………………….
Lol, that’s some good writing!

But in 17 years of riding e-start bikes, I’ve never been surprised by a dead battery. Had a few, but the way the battery failed gave plenty of warning, usually when the motor spins but doesn’t start quickly. Now the guys who take a bike out of storage directly to the track/trail might have a lot more trouble, but I just don’t feel sorry for that kind of crappy ride prep. To your point though, I did go from an auto clutch to a standard clutch and one of the reasons was easy bump starts if needed..
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mxav8r
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11/8/2022 8:12am Edited Date/Time 11/8/2022 8:12am
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/11/08/576024/s1200_5b7aee361b43b5.98947842.jpg[/img] [url=https://motocrossactionmag.com/mxa-race-test-2019-honda-crf450/]2019 mxa CRF450 test:[/url] [I]"Ken Roczen removed the electric starter motor, battery, starter gear sets and wiring harness during the 2018 AMA 450 Nationals... but...


2019 mxa CRF450 test:
"Ken Roczen removed the electric starter motor, battery, starter gear sets and wiring harness during the 2018 AMA 450 Nationals... but we doubt that Honda will let him do that again."

Brayton also was running the kickstart in his huge Daytona win the same year:


I will accept my public shame and bow to you! Serves me right for being a Know-It-All
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Luke_Richards
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11/8/2022 8:14am
Gravel wrote:
About the Suzuki.. It only takes one time where you’re stuck in a tight spot, stalled, and have to kick a hot bike over a few...
About the Suzuki..

It only takes one time where you’re stuck in a tight spot, stalled, and have to kick a hot bike over a few dozen times to get it started. And then you stall it again. Meanwhile, your buddy has started and stopped a few times trying to help you and each time simply pushed a button to get moving again. To make damn sure you never get kickstart bike again..

That’s why bikes need electric start, and especially why newbie bikes need electric start. And it’s why the idea of a RMZ as a entry level race bike/trail bike is shot down by the kickstart. An experienced rider can deal with a kickstart just fine, but he’s probably riding a bike with a magic button already..

As to what KR ends up riding, I generally don’t care as long as he makes it to A1!
Meh, I’ve seen many many times on tv guys crash and are
Aimlessly looking down at the bars rocking back and forth pushing the button, you’re kicking a few dozen times you got another problem.
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soggy
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11/8/2022 11:13am
He’s riding the hep Suzuki this week before he goes to Paris according to Matthes.
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tek14
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11/8/2022 11:36am
soggy wrote:
He’s riding the hep Suzuki this week before he goes to Paris according to Matthes.
Hope he doenst hurt his right leg.
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mb60
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11/8/2022 11:37am
Kenny seems to have 1 mission this year. Show me the money 😂
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