Our sport is guna die if we don’t start racing

Stuntman949
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Stuntman949 3/21/2019 7:52am
3/21/2019 7:52am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Moto may be dying, but offroad is strong as ever. That's what I try to do mostly. $45 for 2 hours of riding then I'm done...
Moto may be dying, but offroad is strong as ever. That's what I try to do mostly. $45 for 2 hours of riding then I'm done. I go home. No sitting around all day.

Moto promoters need to seriously reevaluate their program. $40 membership fees, $20 gate fees, $30 per class to race 3 guys for 15 minutes spread over 10 hours. They need to restructure the day and make it affordable.

The bike prices aren't the issue. It's the fact that if I want to go do a weekend of racing 2 classes I'm out $200. $200 could be reasonable, but the product you get in return isn't worth that. Now, that's not to say other sports aren't like that. Have you guys seen how expensive baseball camps are or equestrian shows? Same type of thing.

Offroad has a soft spot in my heart, especially being the terrible jumper I am. Long laps/loops are what make me salivate. Offroad is where the guy on the brand new 450 gets his door blown off by the blue collar, mismatched gear wearing guy on the 1998 YZ250 that has been missing graphics since his tip over in 2004
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mattyhamz2 3/21/2019 7:59am
3/21/2019 7:59am
I agree with the sandbagger/cherry picker issue, but the problem is the promoters won't move them up because those riders threaten to never come back if they are moved up. It happened a lot with a few local promoters here. Same guys winning the C class and winning every series in the C class(we have a separate beginner class out here because beginner to novice is a pretty decent jump here) and collecting contingency for 3 years! They were talked to about the issue but threatened to never come back so they were allowed to continue racing C. Frustrated the crap out of the rest of us and I eventually stopped racing for that reason among getting married and having knee surgery.

It was also hard to have fun racing when you're 22-24 years old, have a wife and kid(s) while racing 15-18 year olds that are willing to jump over your head and clean you out for a $2 trophy. I wasn't willing to deal with that either. I had work Monday and a wife and daughter to provide for. 25+ class it is from now on when I do get to race Smile
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mattyhamz2 3/21/2019 8:01am
3/21/2019 8:01am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Moto may be dying, but offroad is strong as ever. That's what I try to do mostly. $45 for 2 hours of riding then I'm done...
Moto may be dying, but offroad is strong as ever. That's what I try to do mostly. $45 for 2 hours of riding then I'm done. I go home. No sitting around all day.

Moto promoters need to seriously reevaluate their program. $40 membership fees, $20 gate fees, $30 per class to race 3 guys for 15 minutes spread over 10 hours. They need to restructure the day and make it affordable.

The bike prices aren't the issue. It's the fact that if I want to go do a weekend of racing 2 classes I'm out $200. $200 could be reasonable, but the product you get in return isn't worth that. Now, that's not to say other sports aren't like that. Have you guys seen how expensive baseball camps are or equestrian shows? Same type of thing.

Stuntman949 wrote:
Offroad has a soft spot in my heart, especially being the terrible jumper I am. Long laps/loops are what make me salivate. Offroad is where the...
Offroad has a soft spot in my heart, especially being the terrible jumper I am. Long laps/loops are what make me salivate. Offroad is where the guy on the brand new 450 gets his door blown off by the blue collar, mismatched gear wearing guy on the 1998 YZ250 that has been missing graphics since his tip over in 2004
Hey Bro, I have a 98 YZ250 Laughing
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danzig138
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danzig138 3/21/2019 8:05am
3/21/2019 8:05am
Dualsport. Go explore new and exciting shit. Who cares if you can twist a throttle faster than the other guy...haha.
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mattyhamz2 3/21/2019 8:08am
3/21/2019 8:08am
Man, there are so many good points in here!
mx317
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mx317 3/21/2019 8:09am
3/21/2019 8:09am
yz133rider wrote:
Start making outdoor motocross tracks outdoor motocross again and not outdoor supercross where the risk and skill level is out of reach for 95% of the...
Start making outdoor motocross tracks outdoor motocross again and not outdoor supercross where the risk and skill level is out of reach for 95% of the riding community. Tracks are built for the top 5% a riders and are too intimidating/not fun for a good majority of riders. They end up not staying with it, going to off-road, or just fucking off in the woods or fields as opposed to going to tracks.
I really think this hit the nail on the head. My closest track used to be so fun to ride, but kept adding jump after jump to the point the last time I was there he had 11 vet racers combined! Parents see this and don't want their kids to start so you lose from the other end also.

On the subject of cost, if it was the biggest factor you wouldn't have offroad races full. The local hare scramble series and GNCC style races are fat with riders.

I just pick carefully the tracks I race now and don't mind driving and spending my money to race there. I may only get to race a couple times a month, but better that than sitting home in plaster from the stupid tracks.
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Spudnut
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Spudnut 3/21/2019 8:09am
3/21/2019 8:09am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2019 8:10am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I agree with the sandbagger/cherry picker issue, but the problem is the promoters won't move them up because those riders threaten to never come back if...
I agree with the sandbagger/cherry picker issue, but the problem is the promoters won't move them up because those riders threaten to never come back if they are moved up. It happened a lot with a few local promoters here. Same guys winning the C class and winning every series in the C class(we have a separate beginner class out here because beginner to novice is a pretty decent jump here) and collecting contingency for 3 years! They were talked to about the issue but threatened to never come back so they were allowed to continue racing C. Frustrated the crap out of the rest of us and I eventually stopped racing for that reason among getting married and having knee surgery.

It was also hard to have fun racing when you're 22-24 years old, have a wife and kid(s) while racing 15-18 year olds that are willing to jump over your head and clean you out for a $2 trophy. I wasn't willing to deal with that either. I had work Monday and a wife and daughter to provide for. 25+ class it is from now on when I do get to race Smile
You should see my local races the beginner kids and JRs run together and it looks like one class. You got beginners beating half the juniors.

I’m loving the 25 plus life as well no worries about Johnny the kid punting my aging ass just so he can “flex” on “the gram” with his $3 trophy that costed 55 bucks
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disbanded
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disbanded 3/21/2019 8:19am
3/21/2019 8:19am
I quit racing because of injuries. Now I ride in the mountains for fun...
1
scrallex
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scrallex 3/21/2019 8:22am
3/21/2019 8:22am
Another downside to the decreasing amount of local racing going on is, in my opinion, the lack of skill of the kids moving into the pro ranks. I understand that pros these days are going way faster than they ever have but I still feel like the lack of gate drop experience from these younger guys is one of the main reasons we are seeing less RC/JS/RV/AC riders. They just don't get the racing experience spending months at the training facilities, in my opinion.
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mattyhamz2 3/21/2019 8:22am
3/21/2019 8:22am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I agree with the sandbagger/cherry picker issue, but the problem is the promoters won't move them up because those riders threaten to never come back if...
I agree with the sandbagger/cherry picker issue, but the problem is the promoters won't move them up because those riders threaten to never come back if they are moved up. It happened a lot with a few local promoters here. Same guys winning the C class and winning every series in the C class(we have a separate beginner class out here because beginner to novice is a pretty decent jump here) and collecting contingency for 3 years! They were talked to about the issue but threatened to never come back so they were allowed to continue racing C. Frustrated the crap out of the rest of us and I eventually stopped racing for that reason among getting married and having knee surgery.

It was also hard to have fun racing when you're 22-24 years old, have a wife and kid(s) while racing 15-18 year olds that are willing to jump over your head and clean you out for a $2 trophy. I wasn't willing to deal with that either. I had work Monday and a wife and daughter to provide for. 25+ class it is from now on when I do get to race Smile
Spudnut wrote:
You should see my local races the beginner kids and JRs run together and it looks like one class. You got beginners beating half the juniors...
You should see my local races the beginner kids and JRs run together and it looks like one class. You got beginners beating half the juniors.

I’m loving the 25 plus life as well no worries about Johnny the kid punting my aging ass just so he can “flex” on “the gram” with his $3 trophy that costed 55 bucks
Amen brother! I'm all about 25+ right now! OTHG I can race 30+ now because it's 28-38 for age Tongue

I'm coming for you Socalmx70! Laughing Tongue
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SmokinJoe439
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SmokinJoe439 3/21/2019 8:28am
3/21/2019 8:28am
I only do two races a year now and I don't really treat them as races. The old timers mx race at washougal because guaranteed 3 - 15 min moto's on Saturday and 2 on Sunday. I also do the 125 dream race at washougal mainly for fun because a full gate of 125's is sweet.

Other than that I only ride practice days anymore and I haven't bought a new bike in 12 years.
Spudnut
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Spudnut 3/21/2019 8:29am
3/21/2019 8:29am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Amen brother! I'm all about 25+ right now! OTHG I can race 30+ now because it's 28-38 for age :P I'm coming for you Socalmx70! :laugh...
Amen brother! I'm all about 25+ right now! OTHG I can race 30+ now because it's 28-38 for age Tongue

I'm coming for you Socalmx70! Laughing Tongue
It’s awesome! WOTMX has a race here in WA just for old timers that runs 3 15 min Motos Saturday and 2 20s Sunday this may. Super excited to try and survive that weekend lol
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GeorgiePorgie 3/21/2019 8:45am
3/21/2019 8:45am
Walter wrote:
Lots of spot-on comments here. We have priced ourselves out of the market in many cases, but the need for too many people have to have...
Lots of spot-on comments here. We have priced ourselves out of the market in many cases, but the need for too many people have to have the latest and greatest sure adds to the cost. No one is happy with older bikes and gear.

Short motos, tracks that are too high-risk, low reward, and thin fields on gates due to a plethora of classes adds to the mix.

Go to an off road race and see huge fields, many on older equipment, run in long races with good track time...and see people just having fun. Dirt biking ain't dead, one just has to shift focus a bit...
Yea I agree. The off road seems to be where it’s at. And every year I tell myself I’m gonna start dabbling in it. I’ve been doing Grand Prix races. 1 hour plus 1 lap. Love them. Tons of seat time. Minimal time at the track virtually no sitting. Sport is shifting away from 90-class motocross days to long course type racing.
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TSCHAM101
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TSCHAM101 3/21/2019 8:53am
3/21/2019 8:53am
chuckie108 wrote:
I think it has to partially do with the events. Now a days, every MX race has 40 classes and 20 motos. So you wait around...
I think it has to partially do with the events. Now a days, every MX race has 40 classes and 20 motos. So you wait around all day for a total of 15 laps. I raced the world vets this year- never again. First moto was 6 laps at 1:30, second moto was 5 laps at 4:45 with the sun right in my face. And the track was the worst I've ever seen it. Quickly reminded myself why I generally skip these events. The good events have good turn out. REM is always well attended, even if the crowd can be clicky, as you get good track time and are out of there by 2ish. And Big6 seems like is doing well as you get your monies worth.

The other factor is the world has simply changed. There are so many things to absorb peoples attention these days. They don't even have to leave the house to get entertained. Plus I think people in general have lost their sense of adventure. Give them a latte, FB, and Netflix and they're perfectly content(notice I didn't say happy).
For me, it has to do with Time.

If we could split up vet guys, and up and comers on different days, it would allow for more racing, and less waiting.

Im not gonna pay $50-100 to ride for 20 minutes.. when I could go golfing or do something else for the same price but for 4+ hours of fun.. or i could spend $30 on a practice day, and put 2 engine hours on my bike having fun and be out of there by 12-1pm..





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kNewc
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kNewc 3/21/2019 8:56am
3/21/2019 8:56am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2019 8:56am
It's all about money and the race schedule. My wife and I have no kids, only debt is our house. She's an RN (in school to get her masters) and I work IT and we are the only couple in our large group of friends who can get even close to affording to moto. My other friends live paycheck to paycheck. Most work in factories and flat out can't afford a $3k bike without taking out a loan. Back in the day my Dad worked in a factory making $30 an hour and was able to afford a house and bikes in the 70s'-90's no issues. Now his same position starts at $15 an hour and they are only part-time. Houses/Bills are twice as much now but we are getting the paid the same or less than our parents. Something is wrong there.

That above schedule with 10+ 50cc class is another reason why.
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tprice07
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tprice07 3/21/2019 9:10am
3/21/2019 9:10am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2019 9:29am
You can find some decent bikes around here (Central Iowa) for under $2500, set of gear, boots, and a helmet for under $500 if you are on a budget. I could be be wrong but I don't think $3,000 is stopping people from riding. The lack of places to ride is. Liability seems to be the biggest issue.

I have multiple bikes sitting in the garage but very few places to actually ride without driving a few hours. 10-15 years ago we had 3-4 tracks within about 30 minutes of me. Plus, I had a track on our family acreage.

As for the sport dying. I really believe we are looking at the professional side of it wrong. Granted, we need people racing in order to feed into the series but I don't see filling 22-40 gates as being an issue.

This is an entertainment sport. If we continue to view it as a participatory sport then yes, it will die. Right now, teams rely heavily on inside sponsorship. Even the OEM's are going racing in hopes of selling bikes. JGR and RCH are/were the only ones adopting the model that would be sustainable. But for whatever reason they were unable to maintain the outside sponsors necessary to keep this sport going.

I would assume these teams have people with the proper data and relationship with the sponsors to show them the return on their investment but then when you hear a little more you realize they left things like that in the dust and so brands leave.
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Sierra Ranger
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Sierra Ranger 3/21/2019 9:11am
3/21/2019 9:11am
1stSSPZ wrote:
62 years old, have been racing for 50 years now. I have read thru every post on this thread and every one is legit. The changes...
62 years old, have been racing for 50 years now. I have read thru every post on this thread and every one is legit. The changes in the society of this country alone are enough to ever keep the sport from becoming anything like it was back in the day. I am proud and fortunate that I got to be a part of it.
That's how I feel about it. Hell, when I work on my bike now, I figure in a few decades the entire art of working on internal combustion engines will be gone. Motors are part of our culture as moto guys. But the enviros are stamping it out. I feel there will be little tolerance for our hobby of running IC engines for fun.
I ride a 14-year-old RM250 that is dirt cheap to run, and buy discounted gear and you won't find me any happier than exploring some lonely trail up in the Sierras. Do I look cool at the track? Hell no, but I am too old to care anymore.
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lumpy790
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lumpy790 3/21/2019 9:12am
3/21/2019 9:12am
IMO we do not need 10-15 minor league Amateur Nationals burning out riders expenses.

Mini O’s, Lorettas and Mammoth mountain were top level and great for so many years without them.
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Airick
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Airick 3/21/2019 9:13am
3/21/2019 9:13am
Brent wrote:
The biggest problem is the cost to get into motocross for a beginner. What outsider is going to spend 10 grand on bike and gear to...
The biggest problem is the cost to get into motocross for a beginner.
What outsider is going to spend 10 grand on bike and gear to get started ?
As older legacy racers stop racing because they don’t want to jump huge triple jumps at 50, new blood isn’t coming into the sport.
This, and people don't start racing. Gotta start riding before you can race, but areas to just fun ride are hard to come by. Those "semi-legal" riding spots are gone, and everyone is afraid of being sued. In my area, for my kid to ride, it takes me committing a full day, but growing up I could get an hour or two in before my parents even got home.
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Naanak
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Naanak 3/21/2019 9:25am
3/21/2019 9:25am
I don’t race much mx because I just don’t find it fun most of the times. I plan on getting into harescrambles simply for $50 you get 2 hours of racing and I’m home by 1:30-2:00. Also being in NJ our mx options are low and expensive. Riding woods or free riding especially with a dual sport opens up huge amounts of riding possibilities. On top of that there’s 2 tracks versus 7ish places where they have off-road events.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 3/21/2019 9:26am
3/21/2019 9:26am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2019 9:26am
A question, or 3, for the gallery...

1. Don't we really need to just get "more people out on dirt bikes", again? (Remember the '80s when it seemed like EVERYONE went "riding"...?)

2. Would that make more people interested in racing?

3. Do we need to always be focused on "RACE" bikes when the truly affordable stuff is available and inexpensive...?
KLX140G: $3,400
CRF250F: $4,600
TTR110E: $2,300
DR-Z70E: $1,850

In the California Off-Road Park system, I am seeing more people back out there this year. That's a good thing.

I honestly believe that just getting people back outdoors and riding trails and off-road areas is the way to get the sport back to it's former glory.

All the while, YES! I'm also racing more. And it's more fun than I can explain.

To the OP, GREAT THREAD!
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591MX
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591MX 3/21/2019 9:40am
3/21/2019 9:40am
Unfortunately for a lot of us once the real world sets in and you have a wife, kids, and limited free time it gets really hard trying to justify dragging the family out to the track all day just so I can race. For that reason once the kids came along I switched primarily to practice days and maybe one or two races a year. Thankfully I live 15 mins from River Valley MX so it’s easy to run out and do a couple sessions and be back home before the youngest is up from his nap. For me personally though there’s nothing like racing and I love it. It’s just not feasible time wise. I have a feeling that’s going to change in the next few months though because our two year old lives and breaths motocross. He sleeps in his jersey and even has the Pastrana style thumbs up. And for the record, the stryder then stacyc were worth every penny!
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NicNak
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NicNak 3/21/2019 9:42am
3/21/2019 9:42am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2019 9:45am
I think it starts at the local level, we need more local racers to turn into more regional racers to turn into more national racers. When I was on 85's I used to show up at Byron Nukes in 2005-2006 with 40 kids in 85 Senior and 2 stacked A classes to watch. Even getting a top 10 you had to be hauling ass. Sunset Ridge LLQ had like 90 B riders multiple times in my life. You guys are so right that our sport is dying.

My first year of A class i could actually go to the race and make money or at least break even and now the payouts are ridiculous. I think if you attract A riders to come they bring others. Their word of mouth advertising is what attracts the mini's and the C and B riders and even just spectators. People want to race but they also want to see fast guys battle it out right in front of their eyes.

One year my brother won a free week at MTF for winning a 10 race series in B class and I believe A class had a big payout for winning that series. Takes money to make money but the tracks are not going to go from dead to huge profits overnight. Let's start with trying to break-even or some small profits. There is a long term vision we can see of implementing a better system. It'll take time but what other choices do we have?

Also the district could benefit from NOT offering 4 tracks racing on the same day. You've got one option up north and one option down south per state. Some of this falls on the racers because they don't go if they don't like the tracks. PLEASE. If you're a racer, go racing. Doesn't matter if it's a backyard fair race or an outdoor national. Show up and send it. Let's eliminate the option to get everyone heading to the same place.

Bring back payouts or awards and podium interviews, fix the schedule and let's make a local race exciting again. This will all lead to more people feeling like a racer and showing up at the nationals.
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FWYT
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FWYT 3/21/2019 9:44am
3/21/2019 9:44am
As I work most weekends, it's hard for me to get away in the first place but I will never, ever do one of those shitty wait three hours between two, 4-lap motos bullshit races. Complete waste of time and money.

When I get a weekend off, I go race an SRA GP at Glen Helen. Ride two classes, no big crazy jumps, 1.5 hours of race time and I'm out of there by noon. That is money well spent.
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GangGreen
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GangGreen 3/21/2019 10:00am
3/21/2019 10:00am
At risk of being suspended, the “Elephant in the Room” is that the Loretta Lynn’s event causes every track to run unnecessary classes. Every mini-dad thinks their kid needs to ride the same 85cc 12-13 class and not just 80A or 80B. I’m a Vet rider myself, but we don’t need 25+, 35+, 45+, A, B, C, sometimes D.
Causing every race to have 40 classes and 20+ motos. So you wait around all day for a total of 15 laps.
Here are the results from an event in PA last fall. It does not matter the racetrack or series, this is all over America.
Seriously, AN EIGHT MINUTE EXPERT MOTO?


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zippytech
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zippytech 3/21/2019 10:03am
3/21/2019 10:03am
You know the AMA rules book says

"3. For each class, the recommended program is two 15- minute motos."

It's been since the early 90's since I have seen anywhere close to a 15 minute moto.. some are 12 at best.
Kenny Lingus
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Kenny Lingus 3/21/2019 10:07am
3/21/2019 10:07am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Aren't motorcycle sales in general suffering? As already said the younger generations aren't as into it anymore.....get off my lawn.
In the newest RacerX in their by the numbers section it says as of 2018 there are 13.1 million motorcycles in the US. That's an increase of 2.5 million from 2014.
Tarz483
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Tarz483 3/21/2019 10:17am
3/21/2019 10:17am
zippytech wrote:
You know the AMA rules book says "3. For each class, the recommended program is two 15- minute motos." It's been since the early 90's since...
You know the AMA rules book says

"3. For each class, the recommended program is two 15- minute motos."

It's been since the early 90's since I have seen anywhere close to a 15 minute moto.. some are 12 at best.
And When was that written?
Is it even the same sport as it was in the 70's ?
I know it is but the bikes have evolved so much
Since the 70's its Crazy
Kenny Lingus
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Kenny Lingus 3/21/2019 10:23am
3/21/2019 10:23am
Local MX may be on the decline but I would say off road recreational riding is picking up. With KTM making white bikes, OEM's making special editions, more gear companies starting up, gear companies expanding their lines with helmets/ boots etc., play bike models being updated, new graphics companies and even new tire manufacturers, somebody is buying this stuff. So one would have to think some new blood is coming in. New businesses don't usually mean a dying market.
neverwas 3/21/2019 10:24am
3/21/2019 10:24am
RexEasely wrote:
we need a mix of riding disciplines to ignite interest. Think On Any Sunday. For instance, a series comprising a mx event, desert event, flat track...
we need a mix of riding disciplines to ignite interest. Think On Any Sunday. For instance, a series comprising a mx event, desert event, flat track, time trial and TT. You ride one bike, mx, dual sport, grom, vintage etc and set it up as needed and just ride. Also, you must show up on a team or apply for a team because you will compete as a team.
In like this idea and we used to do some similar stuff back in the late 70's but being on a team should not be mandatory.

Post a reply to: Our sport is guna die if we don’t start racing