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Something tells me that data is related to accidents on the road and doesn't have much to do with motocross.
That could the one. I just remember the camera following for about 2 laps as Diffy and RC talked about his race the very next day and his dad doing an over nighter with the RV to get him there as as they're talking about that and showing him on camera, he crashed pretty hard. Bad enough he wasn't going to that next race. I believe that is him.
There were riders in that 85 class going down left and right. It was carnage unfortunately
You made the claim, not me. I figured you had the data.
I do have enough common sense to understand that bikes that are WAY more powerful and WAY more capable going speeds and doing jumps that couldn't even be fathomed back then are causing more injuries though.
The world may never know.
What I do know is that I agree with the folks saying if we do nothing then something will be done for us. I think the current insurance situation is proof of that.
This didn't actually happen.
The manufacturers signed a consent decree, there was no actual government ban.
They switched to 4 wheels via that decree. Deaths have climbed higher and higher year over year on those four wheelers.
Not making 3 wheelers anymore just took away the government/media spotlight, but it didn't save anyone, in fact... kind of like the 4 stroke argument here, ATVs just got immensely faster, easier to ride, heavier, and more dangerous.
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Most of the deaths are from getting hit by anotjer bike or ran over. Not from hitting a sketchy jump
What really cultivated my love for Motocross 20+ years ago is the grit and determination it took. Nowadays, it takes extreme precision, with little room for error.
Bring back grass tracks.
Correct. Or hitting an obstacle like a pole etc. I hate seeing any injury, much less a fatality, but the top speeds are not much different over the years. Acceleration is vastly different, but if you look at the pro level, the injuries we all actually watch happen are rarely because of speed. The other ones, like the recent one, we don't have video of and don't know what happened.
Oh bullshit. The bikes and the tracks have changed massively, and the risks have gone up along with them. Don't be stupid.
I know exactly the kind of experience you're talking about. When I was 15 in the mid 80's I remember being at my friend's farm where he had a backyard track (I there were 2 mild (by today's standards) jumps and something of a whoop section, otherwise pretty much a turn track). There were 6 of us there. I had an IT 200 - not a motocross bike, but I thought it was awesome. One guy had an XR 200R (about the same year as my IT, which was an 86). He was hitting jumps so fast that when he landed there would be a loud clang and I was sure that the bike would break in half - but it didn't. Another guy had an early 80s YZ100, and I remember thinking it had a wild powerband with basically no low end power (my IT was torquey) but good top end hit. One guy had an XL 350 - it wasn't exactly made for jumping, but he was holding his own. And another guy had an old bike from the 70s - I don't remember what it was - but he was hammering through the rough sections and his hands were literally bleeding afterwards (he was a tough bastard!). f you looked at what we were doing through modern eyes - being used to modern bikes on modern tracks - what we were doing would look ridiculous. I thought we were going fast. We really weren't. But I can't remember ever having more fun.
That was almost 40 years ago but it still feels like yesterday. I think the reason it's seared into my memory because the next time I went riding - a trail ride- with some guys from that group, one of those guys was killed a hundred or so feet in front of me in a collision at a blind intersection on an old dirt road where there was hardly ever traffic - but there was that day, at exactly the wrong time. I hardly rode after that, and then a few years later sold my bike and went over 20 years without touching a dirt bike. Even the thought of it caused me to feel a certain amount of fear (the trauma of that experience messed me up in various ways - people always noticed how I tended to slow down and check for traffic even at controlled intersections when I had the right of way). When I got into my early 40s and the kids got older and I had more free time, I decided I needed a hobby. I remembered the fun I used to have riding, but I also was struck by the fear and trauma that seeing that accident and losing my friend caused me. I decided to embrace the fun and give a big fat middle finger to my fears by riding again - I'd had enough of being limited by my fears. I know it's not safe. Life isn't safe, but I want to be alive while I'm living. That doesn't mean that I'm interested in taking crazy risks. I ride fairly cautiously. I try to mitigate risks but I know that risks can't be eliminated. If the tragedy associated with our sport is too much for you, believe me, I get it. But I'm back riding. I have Parkinson's disease now so I know the number of years where I can keep doing it are limited. So I plan to enjoy them while I can. In doing so, I'm going back to a simpler mindset - I don't want to spend my riding days testing new parts or chasing suspension settings. Because of my physical limitations, I'm riding at a slow pace (on a KTM 450 factory edition - yes, I'm one of "those guys", who might as well be on an XR400 - I really don't care if it looks silly).. But that's ok. I want to do what I did 40 years ago and just ride and take in the sheer joy of it - the joy that I experienced before a tragic accident robbed me of the ability to experience that joy, and that I know Parkinson's will take from me again at some point (something's going to get all of us so don't feel sorry for me). I think my friend would be pleased.
Totally. Just including since off road data will be almost non existent
I would like to see amateur races run two thirty minute motos. I hated racing those 4-5 lap races as a kid. If people weren’t going all out, I think it might help a bit. Lowering the displacement might help a bit. Some tracks are more dangerous than others. At the end of the day you’re flying around on a motorcycle, though.
Motoland in Kingsbury, IN has this in a 3 jump section, but unfortunately the owner is MIA - great tracks.
It'll be impossible to enforce HP, especially at amateur events, and it doesn't allow the manufacturers and aftermarket companies to innovate.
If we simply set maximum displacement, which can easily be tested, it allows the manufacturers to innovate and compete with each other, yet the baseline HP is reasonable.
I've written up and posted a plan to make the transition smooth a few times, for both the pro and amateur sides. I'll see if I can find it and post it here later.
BTW: I'm a 63 and have always ridden a 125. I set my own limits, because I know that if I have a 450, I will use it.
Ive got a ktm 450sxf stock and a ktm150sx with a pipe and a keihin carb.
Both bikes are really fast, one is super easy to ride and one is really scary to ride with a come to Jesus moment every lap.....
But never let people's real world experience get in the way of how you think the world works.
You know that’s for street bikes, right?
The only thing that has ever and will ever cause injuries is the monkey twisting the right-hand grip.
I'm in the camp of the current bikes are so easy to ride they easily fool riders into thinking they are more skilled than they really are. That leads to getting WAY over your head in speed, skill, and reaction times and leads to big crashes. Throw in tracks that cater to the crowd of riders always wanting the "big booter" so they can display their testicular fortitude and you've got problems. Sometimes we ARE our own worst enemy.
The track problem is pretty easily solved but requires a little bit of land and probably some additional cost. Since the loud crowd basically wants outdoor supercross tracks, create one. But to ride it, you need a license from a certified trainer. For the rest of the mortals that need to work, give us all as natural an outdoor track as possible. Any jumps should be limited to tabletops...no gaps and no ridiculous lengths. Let the track get rough to slow it down. And I'm all for sound/power reductions too. It wasn't that long ago that the 250 2 stroke was the premier class bike and they survived just fine on 40-45 HP.
Pit Row
People keep saying the sport was just as dangerous years ago as it is now as if this somehow makes it OK. Every other motorsport you can think of has become much safer over the last few decades. Moto is the only one that tolerates the same level of safety of two generations ago and doesn't see the problem.
No, it wouldn't. There's already plenty of ECUs in the car world that limit HP output for valet use, or inexperienced drivers. Require use of an unmodified OEM ECU that has limits enforced. Problem solved. Ban engine mods that increase HP. Allow suspension, chassis, and brake mods. As it is we are "innovating" ourselves out of existence.
We are playing a lot of golf now. Damn difficult sport (I'm a 13 handicap) but it's funny - my boy has played maybe 15 rounds now without one ambulance ride, not even a scratch. And he loves it. When he leaves with his clubs in the truck I don't worry about getting a call that he's wadded it up (again) and is hurt. I do admit that I miss watching him in the "flow", hole-shotting every moto of the weekend at Washougal, running with the fast group. I think those days are over for us.
I was there that day, I used to race for all my youth - about 15 years - we went all over sweden and some races abroad. I dont regret it for a second, I still had a bike and rode at the time of that shitty day in Västerås, i had my two kids with me and we stood right by the start corner. After that day i rode maybe twice again - that was it for me. Johan was such a promising young rider.
That’s a really good thought….👍🏻💯
Good for you man.💯👍🏻
Top riders have had horrific injuries and nothing changed. Magoo, David Bailey, Ernesto Fonseca, Jimmy Button are a few that come to mind.
It's easier to simply restrict displacement, then let the factories and aftermarket companies continue to innovate, differentiate and compete with each other. It's worked for Nascar and Indy, and I believe they've lowered displacement more than once.
The rest can be done as well. Lowering sound levels would help tracks stay open, but lowering displacement is easier.
Besides, It's too easy to cheat with RPMs, etc... As Hammer suggested, we can require a stock ECU, but people will find a way to hack those too.
Yes. I’m looking for off road data without success. This is the closest I found so far
We’ve been racing on the same tracks for years and years. The tracks didnt get faster the bikes did
Note: Mammoth is at 8,000 feet and the the afternoon on a hot day. bikes can lose massive HP due to altitude. Add density altitude on a 78 degree day and it is near 11,200 (11,187ft) feet. On a built 250F pushing 48HP this is approx. 3% for each 1,000 gain. Math makes it 33.56% That puts HP in the 30's. Approximately 31.9 horsepower at 11,187 feet density altitude to be accurate.
Jumps are much bigger though. Grooming has changed as well, with track prep much different than 30 years ago. Yes, I’m old
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