Bob Hannah agrees, but i need a new sport

endurox
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5/28/2018 3:26pm
Back in Bob's day, riders spent more time on terra fer-ma and not in the air. Ax the jumps and see how rough the tracks get. Bob just says it like it is.
Brent
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5/28/2018 3:28pm Edited Date/Time 5/28/2018 3:28pm
I think you get shit like this because they stick a microphone in front of Bob Hannah, and of course he knows what old timers want to hear.

I'm in my 50's and I ride and race a 450, and they are the easiest, nicest dirt motorcycles I have ever ridden. BUT - they demand respect.

As long as you never try to ride them like a two stroke, know your limits, and ALWAYS respect the massive power available should you decide to twist it all the way open.

We can talk dangerous track design all day, and I think that is a legit issue, but don't blame the motorcycles for todays injuries.
moto9
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5/28/2018 3:28pm
yz133rider wrote:
Bob Hannah agrees 450s are way too much, too heavy, too fast, too many injuries. Anyone wanna tell him he needs to take up knitting or...
Bob Hannah agrees 450s are way too much, too heavy, too fast, too many injuries.

Anyone wanna tell him he needs to take up knitting or call him a pussy or knows nothing about sx\moto?

Mathes podcast with him and rv if you wanna listen.
Most of the time there are as many injured 250 riders as there is 450 riders.
Currently I think it's about even.
So, even if you slowed a 450 down to a 250 still going to have as many injured riders and where does it end?
loftyair
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5/28/2018 3:29pm
Just let them ride what they want. An under-powered bike also gets you in trouble. Premier class full season any cc, any stroke, including electric. Support class, same but not much TV, no championship, that way if youre good, you move to premier.

The Shop

Flip109
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5/28/2018 5:03pm
Fuk it. Let em all ride groms with nobbies. That should be fun. Lol
5/28/2018 5:11pm
It’s too expensive for the OEM’s to develop new engine sizes. My prediction is we will see the displacement stay the same until internal combustion engines are completely replaced by electric motors.
omalley
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5/28/2018 6:03pm
yz133rider wrote:
Bob Hannah agrees 450s are way too much, too heavy, too fast, too many injuries. Anyone wanna tell him he needs to take up knitting or...
Bob Hannah agrees 450s are way too much, too heavy, too fast, too many injuries.

Anyone wanna tell him he needs to take up knitting or call him a pussy or knows nothing about sx\moto?

Mathes podcast with him and rv if you wanna listen.
A pussy...that’s funny. In addition to riding for Factory Honda during one of the most competitive eras in our sports history, I suppose you’d be willing to strap into an airplane and race it at 500mph, 50 feet off the deck with an engine that might last anywhere from 30 seconds to whenever at race power, then cover the windscreen in oil when it lets go?
yz133rider
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5/28/2018 6:09pm
yz133rider wrote:
Bob Hannah agrees 450s are way too much, too heavy, too fast, too many injuries. Anyone wanna tell him he needs to take up knitting or...
Bob Hannah agrees 450s are way too much, too heavy, too fast, too many injuries.

Anyone wanna tell him he needs to take up knitting or call him a pussy or knows nothing about sx\moto?

Mathes podcast with him and rv if you wanna listen.
omalley wrote:
A pussy...that’s funny. In addition to riding for Factory Honda during one of the most competitive eras in our sports history, I suppose you’d be willing...
A pussy...that’s funny. In addition to riding for Factory Honda during one of the most competitive eras in our sports history, I suppose you’d be willing to strap into an airplane and race it at 500mph, 50 feet off the deck with an engine that might last anywhere from 30 seconds to whenever at race power, then cover the windscreen in oil when it lets go?
You're missing my point which i admit was a little sloppy in delivery. Any time I've mentioned that the tracks are overly dangerous, 450s too fast, too many injuries, tough blocks poorly designed, literally anything about the sport Ive been berrated and called all sorts of names.

So now having Bob freaking Hannah say 450s are taking out the riders and its blatantly obvious to him something needs to be done, i wanted to see who would call him all these names for saying what i also have said before.

Frank
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5/28/2018 6:16pm
Honda just added 9 non motocross bikes to their off road line up and 1 mx bike limited to 500 units for the entire planet earth. Read between the lines folks.
5/28/2018 6:18pm
Flip109 wrote:
The 450’s are fine for outdoors. One thing is you don’t see near as many injuries in the 250 class. It happens but prob at half...
The 450’s are fine for outdoors. One thing is you don’t see near as many injuries in the 250 class. It happens but prob at half the rate. But they also only run half an sx season....The blame is a little on the 450 machine and a LOT on the meat grinder SX season. It’s just dangerous as hell period. Actually surprised we don’t see more injuries there.
i agree , i think 450s have a place outdoors . not here in australia but certainly on your tracks . I also think the supercross series is too long and 12 rounds would be ample . It would give riders and teams an extra month to prepare for outdoors as well and that cant be a bad thing
wreckitrandy
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5/28/2018 6:39pm
Brent wrote:
Bob is over 60. Take it for what it is. Even the greatest racers get cranky, look at all the old ball and stick greats criticizing...
Bob is over 60. Take it for what it is.
Even the greatest racers get cranky, look at all the old ball and stick greats criticizing today's sports. Life is about change and progress.

Although I didn't listen to the Podcast, did Hannah accuse Villopoto directly of using PEDS again like he did in his DR interview in 2015 when RV was training with Aldon Baker?
plowboy wrote:
Shocked Bob Hannah cranky? No way.Evil
HA! And apparently, he's only been that way since he got old!
cable
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5/28/2018 6:51pm
I would love to see the telemetry on throttle position. nascar has it. average joes post their bicycle rides on youtube that show cadence, hr and speed. I bet the 450s aren't wide open more than 60%.
GIwasB4
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5/28/2018 7:08pm
Tarz483 wrote:
I agree 100% with bob And if Coming from Him Somebody who was considered to have Big Balls Then I think the time has definitely come...
I agree 100% with bob
And if Coming from Him
Somebody who was considered to have
Big Balls
Then I think the time has definitely come
But who's decision is it ?
He basically said for indoors a 250 stock
And a 250/300 mod class
I think that sounds great , or a 125 /250 class would be cool too
But personally I have always liked watching pro's ride 250's
Just the way they throw them around and have a lot more body English is sweet just my opinion tho

I think that sounds great , or a 125 /250 class would be cool too

That was already tried.
StevieTimes
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5/28/2018 7:11pm
The one thing I feel like 450s have done, is that bone stock, they are closer to factory bikes than any other motorcycle in history.

Don't have a lot of money? You could race a stock-ish 450, and if you're pretty good, you could do well on it. Remember when Andrew Short was doing that very thing?

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Racing-a-stock-bike-in-s…


If you got a 250F, that's not true, you'd have to throw a ton of cash at the motor, and now it's got a short lifespan.
If you've got a 125 or 250, that's not true, the factory motors are way better.

So while I agree, you get a TON of performance stock from a modern 450, right off the showroom floor, I may not agree that is a bad thing for privateers. For mortal men, maybe it is, I'm not sure, I haven't studied the topic. I'm just saying, a privateer maybe has a shot like never before, I feel like that's good.

bvm111
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5/28/2018 8:34pm Edited Date/Time 5/28/2018 8:45pm
I don’t think any of the CURRENT top riders think it’s too much indoors. I respect the hell out of Hannah but you ride a 450 different than a 250, ask Webb how that transition is going. And you guys coming up with these weird displacements like 200 and saying it’s perfect, how do you know this? I want to see the top guys riding the top factory machines in fact I think they should remove the production rule so they are full blown works bikes again... let it rip!
Lightning78
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5/28/2018 8:41pm
Ted722 wrote:
Indioors. He’d love to take a Factory 450 through the gears and supports it outdoors. Agree with him. Going to 250’s indoors is the way to...
Indioors. He’d love to take a Factory 450 through the gears and supports it outdoors.

Agree with him. Going to 250’s indoors is the way to go. As he said, a stock 250 for the regional’s and a hopped up / works 250/300 for the premier class.
I agree on the 300 works bikes for the premier class buuuut then what do you do if youre a SX Privateer? Just get effed in the A?
Lightning78
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5/28/2018 8:47pm
Incidentally ...MXGP allows works bikes and seems to me the GP bikes are closer to a production bike than ever before
KennyT
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Fantasy
5/28/2018 9:21pm
What place would 60+ year old Hannah, with 6 months to prepare, get at Unadilla 450 class?

I’m going with 25-30th with a few spodes being punted over a berm
Hank_Thrill
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5/28/2018 9:54pm
You people are crazy.

There is no connection. I repeat, no connection between speeds increasing and riders getting catastrophicly injured at a higher rate than yesteryear. You would have to be a fool to believe one exists.

Carry on.
mb
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5/28/2018 10:02pm
You people are crazy. There is no connection. I repeat, no connection between speeds increasing and riders getting catastrophicly injured at a higher rate than yesteryear...
You people are crazy.

There is no connection. I repeat, no connection between speeds increasing and riders getting catastrophicly injured at a higher rate than yesteryear. You would have to be a fool to believe one exists.

Carry on.
yz133rider
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5/28/2018 10:02pm
You people are crazy. There is no connection. I repeat, no connection between speeds increasing and riders getting catastrophicly injured at a higher rate than yesteryear...
You people are crazy.

There is no connection. I repeat, no connection between speeds increasing and riders getting catastrophicly injured at a higher rate than yesteryear. You would have to be a fool to believe one exists.

Carry on.
Bury your head in sand much? See no evil, hear no evil type thing?
visser62
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5/28/2018 10:13pm
FYI everyone, "/s" means sarcasm.
Ted722
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5/28/2018 10:38pm
Ted722 wrote:
Indioors. He’d love to take a Factory 450 through the gears and supports it outdoors. Agree with him. Going to 250’s indoors is the way to...
Indioors. He’d love to take a Factory 450 through the gears and supports it outdoors.

Agree with him. Going to 250’s indoors is the way to go. As he said, a stock 250 for the regional’s and a hopped up / works 250/300 for the premier class.
I agree on the 300 works bikes for the premier class buuuut then what do you do if youre a SX Privateer? Just get effed in...
I agree on the 300 works bikes for the premier class buuuut then what do you do if youre a SX Privateer? Just get effed in the A?
Privateers would have more options. Allow 2-strokes (300cc) and Electric bikes for the premier class too. Also, I’d like to see Pro-Circuit / TLD / etc. move up to the premier class anyway.

The 250 regional class needs to be re-vamped big time. Those riders spend way too much time in that class these days. Extend Orange Brigade / Team Green / blu Cru (whatever else) contracts into a 2 or 3 year max 250 stock (2-stroke or 4) regional SX format.

Just spitballing, but the sooner we can see a Plessinger or Forkner or Cianciarulo go against established factory riders the better. A smaller displacement in the featured class and re-vamped regional class would help speed that timeline.
haydos25
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5/28/2018 10:55pm Edited Date/Time 5/28/2018 11:00pm
Ted722 wrote:
Privateers would have more options. Allow 2-strokes (300cc) and Electric bikes for the premier class too. Also, I’d like to see Pro-Circuit / TLD / etc...
Privateers would have more options. Allow 2-strokes (300cc) and Electric bikes for the premier class too. Also, I’d like to see Pro-Circuit / TLD / etc. move up to the premier class anyway.

The 250 regional class needs to be re-vamped big time. Those riders spend way too much time in that class these days. Extend Orange Brigade / Team Green / blu Cru (whatever else) contracts into a 2 or 3 year max 250 stock (2-stroke or 4) regional SX format.

Just spitballing, but the sooner we can see a Plessinger or Forkner or Cianciarulo go against established factory riders the better. A smaller displacement in the featured class and re-vamped regional class would help speed that timeline.
I kind of get your point.

But do you not think somebody like Forkner would get chewed up and spat out in a national class amongst Tomac, Musquin, Anderson and Roczen? We kinda look at the top 250 guys at the moment and think, how amazing would it be if we could throw them into the 450 main event. When in reality they would probably be battling to make the top 10.

Look how many ex lites class champions were in the field last year, not many of them make the jump to race and title winning contenders. Now we're expecting guys who don't have the luxury of the 2-4 years in the 250 class honing there skills to jump in and not get lost in the pack? The 250 class is a nescesary stepping stone imo. Look at how long its taking guys now to actually get good and succeed. Not many come in and make a ripple in their first year or two in that class either.
MBR
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5/29/2018 12:04am
Things are not always so simple. Did you know that between years 2003 - 2018 on average 5,75 riders made every big class main of the season. I think that number correlates pretty good how many riders are injured during the season. Here is the list from 2003 to 2018 (those were up at AMA results page):

Number of riders that made every main of the season
2018: 6
2017: 7
2016: 6
2015: 5
2014: 4
2013: 7
2012: 3
2011: 8
2010: 6
2009: 6
2008: 5
2007: 7 (16 races)
2006: 6 (16 races)
2005: 6 (16 races)
2004: 7 (16 races)
2003: 3 (16 races)

Bearuno
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5/29/2018 1:17am
cable wrote:
I would love to see the telemetry on throttle position. nascar has it. average joes post their bicycle rides on youtube that show cadence, hr and...
I would love to see the telemetry on throttle position. nascar has it. average joes post their bicycle rides on youtube that show cadence, hr and speed. I bet the 450s aren't wide open more than 60%.
It would be a damned sight less than 60%.

Decades ago, in the RJ /Bailey etc era, Dirt Bike mag had an article where RJs and / or DBs RC500s were at full throttle for about 5% of the Outdoor Track at the Honda test facility.

450s to fast? Well, yes and no.

They are somewhat ridiculous (in terms of need ) on an SX track, but then again, I tend to think their surplus of power is as much a disadvantage as an advantage. I feel it's those that can control said power, that are the successful ones. I truly admire the skill and precision required to control a 450 on vicious, crappy , tiny little tracks plonked down on a baseball / footy arena = postage stamp sized area.

I really think there is not much difference in injury rates between the 450 class, and 250 class. And hell, a 450 season is a serious, serious grind, which tilts the potential of injury heavily towards the 450 / SX class.

However, as a previous poster put up (though I've not checked his results, but easily accept them), I don't think the injury rate / rider season completion rate is any worse than many others in decades past.

I'd rather see tracks being made more difficult, instead of being so obsessed with it all being a 'timing of obstacles' fest.

With the industry / sales being far, far from healthy, people are kidding themselves that the Japanese Companies will drop 450s, and throw money at some other size that various people come up with as a 'solution' to things.

As for Hannah - he's always been outspoken / provocative, from when he first turned up, until now. It's a significant part of why so many of us admire him.
5/29/2018 3:01am
Too powerful? Surely that just depends how far back you twist the throttle?
JustMX
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5/29/2018 3:30am
He also didnt like racing supercross because doubles were too dangerous, so his opinions on 450s might not be worth too much
Perhaps you don't know about the peaky, no-room-errors doubles they had to deal with back in the early days of Supercross or you would understand his dislike for them.

There really was some silly stuff.
5/29/2018 3:31am
I don't think it's really accurate to say 450s are the reason so many guys are hurt, I mean look at how many 250 riders are hurt. Nichols, Ferrandis, Harrison, Oldenburg, McAdoo, Cianciarulo, Davalos, Decotis, Peters. I'm sure there's a couple I missed.

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