Bob Hannah agrees, but i need a new sport

WCRider
Profile picture for user WCRider
Posts
3134
Joined
8/19/2017
Location
BE
Fantasy
2301st
WCRider 5/29/2018 4:43am
5/29/2018 4:43am
Personally, I find the 450 more easier to ride than a 2 strokes. I do not hurt my arms with. The fatigue is different, maybe more vicious especially at the end of the moto. That bike needs some respect.
Bramlett321
Profile picture for user Bramlett321
Posts
1071
Joined
9/14/2012
Location
Texarkana, TX US
Bramlett321 5/29/2018 4:46am
5/29/2018 4:46am
es337 wrote:
yeah but the guys getting lapped three times could annihilate him right now so why should i listen to what he thinks /s
BikerScars wrote:
That's the dumbest shit I've ever read on this forum. Congratulations.
^^^ You beat me to that but you are oh so correct sir lol.
Crush
Profile picture for user Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
Crush 5/29/2018 4:48am
5/29/2018 4:48am
Racing is almost exclusively better in the smaller capacity classes, especially in SX. What does that tell you?

Bob's right
Bramlett321
Profile picture for user Bramlett321
Posts
1071
Joined
9/14/2012
Location
Texarkana, TX US
Bramlett321 5/29/2018 4:50am
5/29/2018 4:50am
Brent wrote:
I think you get shit like this because they stick a microphone in front of Bob Hannah, and of course he knows what old timers want...
I think you get shit like this because they stick a microphone in front of Bob Hannah, and of course he knows what old timers want to hear.

I'm in my 50's and I ride and race a 450, and they are the easiest, nicest dirt motorcycles I have ever ridden. BUT - they demand respect.

As long as you never try to ride them like a two stroke, know your limits, and ALWAYS respect the massive power available should you decide to twist it all the way open.

We can talk dangerous track design all day, and I think that is a legit issue, but don't blame the motorcycles for todays injuries.
Man I completely agree with you on "our" level. But the pro's are going to send it as they say, and as much as I love my 450, and I have a 300 as well, there's no comparing the power of the 450.

Tracks....yep, they need a big change. I just watch a damn supercross from 2005 I believe it was and the tracks even then were way different and slower. Slow the damn tracks down !!!

The Shop

See All »
Speeddemon73
Profile picture for user Speeddemon73
Posts
167
Joined
5/7/2013
Location
Grand Rapids, MI US
Speeddemon73 5/29/2018 4:51am
5/29/2018 4:51am Edited Date/Time 5/29/2018 4:53am
You guys need to seriously just stop it with all this restricting engine size nonsense along with the bring back two strokes into professional racing. It's not going to happen! For a privateer racer, they can go into their local dealer and buy a stock 450 and go qualify for a pro national without having to touch the engine. Example: Bradley Taft. In the two stroke days you could not do this same feat. Bike's needed serious engine work to be competitive with others out on the track. Especially the 125 class. Now does the 125 still need to exist? Yes, I completely agree with this. But you guys complaining about kids going from 85's to 250f's are ridiculous. Haha, you are the one buying your kid the bike. If you don't want the kid to make that big of a step, then buy him a 125 and race schoolboy class. No one is forcing you or your kid to go straight to a 250f from 85's. Now as far as putting restrictor plates or limited mods on 450's for indoors. Yeah good luck and watch the sport die. The pro open mod class in snocross is currently doing this same tactic. First the class was an open mod class, the premier class. Then they went to restricting engine mods. You could only do head, porting, and pipes. Now its stock motors with fart can exhausts. No one watches anymore. Putting restrictions on what race teams can do to their bikes will only hurt bike development and the aftermarket parts industry.

I have a Pro-Circuit built 250 two stroke and a 450. I ride both and enjoy both, but for racing outdoors my 450 is my choice.
Gus
Profile picture for user Gus
Posts
495
Joined
1/15/2017
Location
Halifax, NC US
Gus 5/29/2018 5:16am
5/29/2018 5:16am
TeamGreen wrote:
Run-Roh...

Someone ACTUALLY LISTENED?
yz133rider wrote:
Ruh roh does that mean ignore the rest of it? And ruh roh villipoto said 99% of injuries would go away if back on 2 strokes...
Ruh roh does that mean ignore the rest of it? And ruh roh villipoto said 99% of injuries would go away if back on 2 strokes and 125s...
8tensolutions wrote:
So help me understand this one......prior to 4 strokes the injuries were the same and in some cases more, not to mention the separation from Factory...
So help me understand this one......prior to 4 strokes the injuries were the same and in some cases more, not to mention the separation from Factory to Privateer was far greater and the cost to play in the 125 class was huge. I am 42 and have been following the sport very closely since before McGrath, so I really want to understand the point. In my recollection, every year (some worse than others) saw injuries in both classes, and both MX and SX.



Here is a study from 1980-1991.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15133584


Someone citing legitimate medical research on Vital is not what I expected this morning. I’ve bookmarked this.
Dcope17
Profile picture for user Dcope17
Posts
71
Joined
12/20/2016
Location
Troy, IL US
Dcope17 5/29/2018 5:28am
5/29/2018 5:28am
What about 500cc 2 strokes??? Those things were monsters!!!
Bearuno
Profile picture for user Bearuno
Posts
4146
Joined
6/28/2014
Location
AU
Bearuno 5/29/2018 5:40am
5/29/2018 5:40am
Dcope17 wrote:
What about 500cc 2 strokes??? Those things were monsters!!!
No, they're Big Cuddly Teddy Bears!
resetjet
Profile picture for user resetjet
Posts
2396
Joined
3/16/2012
Location
Tampa, FL US
resetjet 5/29/2018 6:03am
5/29/2018 6:03am
Maybe you should tell bob hannah that the 250f’s often beat 450 lap times with lesser riders on them. Its not the bike its the track.
yz133rider
Profile picture for user yz133rider
Posts
4480
Joined
8/1/2013
Location
Avondale, PA US
yz133rider 5/29/2018 6:58am
5/29/2018 6:58am
resetjet wrote:
Maybe you should tell bob hannah that the 250f’s often beat 450 lap times with lesser riders on them. Its not the bike its the track.
That's exactly what happened with the 500s
kkawboy14
Profile picture for user kkawboy14
Posts
11494
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
kkawboy14 5/29/2018 7:06am
5/29/2018 7:06am
resetjet wrote:
Maybe you should tell bob hannah that the 250f’s often beat 450 lap times with lesser riders on them. Its not the bike its the track.
yz133rider wrote:
That's exactly what happened with the 500s
What happened to the 500s wasn’t fear it was fact! The fact was they just weren’t that much faster than the 250 on a track!
yz133rider
Profile picture for user yz133rider
Posts
4480
Joined
8/1/2013
Location
Avondale, PA US
yz133rider 5/29/2018 7:08am
5/29/2018 7:08am
resetjet wrote:
Maybe you should tell bob hannah that the 250f’s often beat 450 lap times with lesser riders on them. Its not the bike its the track.
yz133rider wrote:
That's exactly what happened with the 500s
kkawboy14 wrote:
What happened to the 500s wasn’t fear it was fact! The fact was they just weren’t that much faster than the 250 on a track!
Annnnnd 450s are often slower than 250s or as you said they just arent that much faster on a track.
kkawboy14
Profile picture for user kkawboy14
Posts
11494
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
kkawboy14 5/29/2018 7:13am
5/29/2018 7:13am Edited Date/Time 5/29/2018 7:17am
yz133rider wrote:
That's exactly what happened with the 500s
kkawboy14 wrote:
What happened to the 500s wasn’t fear it was fact! The fact was they just weren’t that much faster than the 250 on a track!
yz133rider wrote:
Annnnnd 450s are often slower than 250s or as you said they just arent that much faster on a track.
Yep, that’s why they need to change the 250 to the 200. People wouldn’t stay in that 200 class forever and there would be an obvious difference to the uneducated spectator. There used to be a noticeable difference in the 125 and 250 classes. The 125 would be competitive in the 200 class.

The change needs to be to the 250 class, the problem is not in the 450 class.
bama205
Profile picture for user bama205
Posts
1490
Joined
10/7/2010
Location
Williamson County, TN US
bama205 5/29/2018 7:25am
5/29/2018 7:25am
Can you imagine the battles we would have if the 250 class was premier.

RC, JS, CR, RV, BT101, RD, josh grant, Webb, pourcel, canard. All these guys got so spread out on 450s.

Then Imagine all the guys who didn't do well moving 450's, but who were fast enough on 250's to run with anyone. how deep would the top 10 be ?
yz133rider
Profile picture for user yz133rider
Posts
4480
Joined
8/1/2013
Location
Avondale, PA US
yz133rider 5/29/2018 7:35am
5/29/2018 7:35am
kkawboy14 wrote:
What happened to the 500s wasn’t fear it was fact! The fact was they just weren’t that much faster than the 250 on a track!
yz133rider wrote:
Annnnnd 450s are often slower than 250s or as you said they just arent that much faster on a track.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Yep, that’s why they need to change the 250 to the 200. People wouldn’t stay in that 200 class forever and there would be an obvious...
Yep, that’s why they need to change the 250 to the 200. People wouldn’t stay in that 200 class forever and there would be an obvious difference to the uneducated spectator. There used to be a noticeable difference in the 125 and 250 classes. The 125 would be competitive in the 200 class.

The change needs to be to the 250 class, the problem is not in the 450 class.
Great 200s. So something like 20k+ rpms even more money to build a competitive one and even less longevity.

The 250 class is more in line with the 250 class of yesteryear
And the 450 class is more in line with the 500 class.

We don't have the same dynamics as the 125 and 250 class anymore.

BobPA
Profile picture for user BobPA
Posts
8030
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
BobPA 5/29/2018 9:05am
5/29/2018 9:05am
bama205 wrote:
Can you imagine the battles we would have if the 250 class was premier. RC, JS, CR, RV, BT101, RD, josh grant, Webb, pourcel, canard. All...
Can you imagine the battles we would have if the 250 class was premier.

RC, JS, CR, RV, BT101, RD, josh grant, Webb, pourcel, canard. All these guys got so spread out on 450s.

Then Imagine all the guys who didn't do well moving 450's, but who were fast enough on 250's to run with anyone. how deep would the top 10 be ?
It would be no different. Josh grant would not be winning championships because everyone was on 250's.

Jesus, the delusions you hear on the internet.
Crush
Profile picture for user Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
Crush 5/29/2018 9:10am
5/29/2018 9:10am
bama205 wrote:
Can you imagine the battles we would have if the 250 class was premier. RC, JS, CR, RV, BT101, RD, josh grant, Webb, pourcel, canard. All...
Can you imagine the battles we would have if the 250 class was premier.

RC, JS, CR, RV, BT101, RD, josh grant, Webb, pourcel, canard. All these guys got so spread out on 450s.

Then Imagine all the guys who didn't do well moving 450's, but who were fast enough on 250's to run with anyone. how deep would the top 10 be ?
BobPA wrote:
It would be no different. Josh grant would not be winning championships because everyone was on 250's.

Jesus, the delusions you hear on the internet.
Bro. Josh Grant gave Millsaps, RV, Dungey, & Lawrence all they wanted quite a bit on 250s. Way better on the smaller bike.

The list of riders who haven't replicated their small bike success on the bigger bike is extensive, definitely more so than any double class champs.

Pit Row

See All »
MXandSXracer21 5/29/2018 9:51am
5/29/2018 9:51am
I agree that the 450 seems a bit much for SX especially. Personally I'd push for the 350 for a premiere class bike.
tcannon521
Profile picture for user tcannon521
Posts
2606
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
HI US
Fantasy
1398th
tcannon521 5/29/2018 12:19pm
5/29/2018 12:19pm
Dcope17 wrote:
What about 500cc 2 strokes??? Those things were monsters!!!
Pretty sure they made less power than 450’s of today.
Doddy
Profile picture for user Doddy
Posts
773
Joined
12/28/2017
Location
Everett, WA US
Doddy 5/29/2018 1:00pm
5/29/2018 1:00pm
MrKnowNothing wrote:
They had it right with 125 and 250 2 strokes. Yamaha discovered a loophole and exploited the hell out of it. When the other manufacturers figured...
They had it right with 125 and 250 2 strokes. Yamaha discovered a loophole and exploited the hell out of it. When the other manufacturers figured out they could sell a bike for 1.5x the $ with twice the moving, needing to be replaced parts they all jumped on the bandwagon. Now you have kids going from an 80cc Nike to a 250. That’s insane! The 450s are like top fuel dragsters and like the 500xx bikes need to go away from premier racing. The cost involved in racing now is obscene. The sport isn’t growing it’s canabalizing itself
How did Yamaha discover a loophole when KTM did it before them?
WarrenMX
Profile picture for user WarrenMX
Posts
757
Joined
3/26/2017
Location
San Clemente, CA US
WarrenMX 5/29/2018 1:06pm
5/29/2018 1:06pm
If there's more injuries, it's because guys are pushing harder than ever and riding way more these days. Someone asked AC on the pulp show if he ever goes to the dunes or free rides and he said no, they don't have the time to.

Even if we were still on 2 strokes, the level would have been pushed and the stakes higher. Just look at FMX or snowboarding for that matter. What got you gold at the x-games 20 years ago is completely different to what it would take to win a competition in 2018. MX/SX is no different.

The guys on the 250f's are often turning the same lap times as the 450's indoors, and some times faster. It's extremely rare that there's a section or a quad that only the 450's are doing and last I checked, no one was injured doing those '450 only' sections.
bama205
Profile picture for user bama205
Posts
1490
Joined
10/7/2010
Location
Williamson County, TN US
bama205 5/29/2018 1:09pm
5/29/2018 1:09pm
bama205 wrote:
Can you imagine the battles we would have if the 250 class was premier. RC, JS, CR, RV, BT101, RD, josh grant, Webb, pourcel, canard. All...
Can you imagine the battles we would have if the 250 class was premier.

RC, JS, CR, RV, BT101, RD, josh grant, Webb, pourcel, canard. All these guys got so spread out on 450s.

Then Imagine all the guys who didn't do well moving 450's, but who were fast enough on 250's to run with anyone. how deep would the top 10 be ?
BobPA wrote:
It would be no different. Josh grant would not be winning championships because everyone was on 250's.

Jesus, the delusions you hear on the internet.
I knew you were dumb already, so no worries.
kkawboy14
Profile picture for user kkawboy14
Posts
11494
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
kkawboy14 5/29/2018 2:49pm
5/29/2018 2:49pm Edited Date/Time 5/29/2018 2:50pm
yz133rider wrote:
Annnnnd 450s are often slower than 250s or as you said they just arent that much faster on a track.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Yep, that’s why they need to change the 250 to the 200. People wouldn’t stay in that 200 class forever and there would be an obvious...
Yep, that’s why they need to change the 250 to the 200. People wouldn’t stay in that 200 class forever and there would be an obvious difference to the uneducated spectator. There used to be a noticeable difference in the 125 and 250 classes. The 125 would be competitive in the 200 class.

The change needs to be to the 250 class, the problem is not in the 450 class.
yz133rider wrote:
Great 200s. So something like 20k+ rpms even more money to build a competitive one and even less longevity. The 250 class is more in line...
Great 200s. So something like 20k+ rpms even more money to build a competitive one and even less longevity.

The 250 class is more in line with the 250 class of yesteryear
And the 450 class is more in line with the 500 class.

We don't have the same dynamics as the 125 and 250 class anymore.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it until I see a better plan.

The only other plan I can come up with is to change the tracks so that there are sections that a 250 can’t do but 450s can.

Change the tracks or change the bikes, there are no other choices.
endurox
Profile picture for user endurox
Posts
1886
Joined
3/22/2014
Location
Garden City, ID US
endurox 5/29/2018 6:09pm
5/29/2018 6:09pm
SX should make all the turns flat, will slow the speeds down. Add a few logs and vertical obstacles and loose half the jumps.
Mr. G
Profile picture for user Mr. G
Posts
4207
Joined
12/23/2009
Location
Riverside, CA US
Mr. G 5/29/2018 8:00pm
5/29/2018 8:00pm
Great idea. Mix a tiny bit of endurocross and It will get interesting.
Fourth_Floor
Profile picture for user Fourth_Floor
Posts
973
Joined
7/13/2016
Location
Saint Marys, PA US
Fourth_Floor 5/29/2018 8:32pm
5/29/2018 8:32pm
2 strokes have a special race for them now so they feel included and their taliban goes ape shit when said race isn't broadcast-ed immediately after. They want to change the displacements around so they can be "equals" and now they want to strip real men of their 450's and 300ft jumps because they are scared of the horsepower and air time and think everyone should accept and think like them and own a 125 and only ride on tracks with ski jumps and molehills....Are 2-strokes the transgenders of the motocross world?
endurox
Profile picture for user endurox
Posts
1886
Joined
3/22/2014
Location
Garden City, ID US
endurox 5/30/2018 6:46am
5/30/2018 6:46am
yz133rider wrote:
Annnnnd 450s are often slower than 250s or as you said they just arent that much faster on a track.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Yep, that’s why they need to change the 250 to the 200. People wouldn’t stay in that 200 class forever and there would be an obvious...
Yep, that’s why they need to change the 250 to the 200. People wouldn’t stay in that 200 class forever and there would be an obvious difference to the uneducated spectator. There used to be a noticeable difference in the 125 and 250 classes. The 125 would be competitive in the 200 class.

The change needs to be to the 250 class, the problem is not in the 450 class.
yz133rider wrote:
Great 200s. So something like 20k+ rpms even more money to build a competitive one and even less longevity. The 250 class is more in line...
Great 200s. So something like 20k+ rpms even more money to build a competitive one and even less longevity.

The 250 class is more in line with the 250 class of yesteryear
And the 450 class is more in line with the 500 class.

We don't have the same dynamics as the 125 and 250 class anymore.

limit rpm's to 12k and allow 175cc 2 stokes.
2WheelsForTheMasses 5/30/2018 6:55am
5/30/2018 6:55am
es337 wrote:
yeah but the guys getting lapped three times could annihilate him right now so why should i listen to what he thinks /s
Wow just wow!!!!!

Post a reply to: Bob Hannah agrees, but i need a new sport