Why has Pro Motocross ignored, betrayed and eliminated Women’s MX?

LowCash
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10/24/2021 12:09pm
Mx is a business and the answer is simple - follow the money.
If the girls generated big revenue they would still be around.
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MPJC
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10/24/2021 12:15pm
It’s something of a viscous cycle. You need enough competitive riders to fill a gate and make for exciting racing. Without that, it’s pointless to try to promote the class, so the class doesn’t exist. Since the class doesn’t exist it’s not there to aspire to. The question is: How to we get things to a point where the class would be viable? Women’s mma has flourished - some of the most exciting fights in the last few years have been in women’s divisions and that’s a sport where people used to scoff at the idea of women competing. It would take someone with much more understanding of the sport than me to know how to make such a thing happen in MX.
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MudPup545
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10/24/2021 12:16pm
wisey wrote:
This. I personally think 2 day has a lot to offer that could help the sport and industry on many levels. Saturday: Qualifications Future amateur Amateur...
This. I personally think 2 day has a lot to offer that could help the sport and industry on many levels.

Saturday:
Qualifications
Future amateur
Amateur kids
Pro women
Pro Vets
Vendors

Sunday:
Pro Motocross



As a spectator I loved the two day format. Saturday was the day to get a pit pass, maybe snag an autograph or two, take in the entire track, load up on souvenirs…..etc. Sunday was put your butt in a chair and watch the pros race. Your ideas are good too.
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ktmwoods
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abilene, TX, USA
10/24/2021 12:21pm
LowCash wrote:
Mx is a business and the answer is simple - follow the money.
If the girls generated big revenue they would still be around.
Soooo many short sighted viewpoints. The “business” is selling bikes, components and apparel etc. THAT should be the goal.

SX and MX in the states is propped up by these manufacturers as a marketing vehicle to drive demand generation for the above said equipment. Women represent the largest growth opportunity in this sport category. Invest in making women a target demo by giving them a reason to care, and they will…wait for it…buy the gear they need to go out and ride. Magical. But it doesn’t happen over night. It takes investment and a little marketing savvy, both of which are in short supply in the MX industry. Just look at what ONE Danica Patrick achieved for both the US based 4 wheel series!
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The Shop

LowCash
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10/24/2021 12:25pm
LowCash wrote:
Mx is a business and the answer is simple - follow the money.
If the girls generated big revenue they would still be around.
ktmwoods wrote:
Soooo many short sighted viewpoints. The “business” is selling bikes, components and apparel etc. THAT should be the goal. SX and MX in the states is...
Soooo many short sighted viewpoints. The “business” is selling bikes, components and apparel etc. THAT should be the goal.

SX and MX in the states is propped up by these manufacturers as a marketing vehicle to drive demand generation for the above said equipment. Women represent the largest growth opportunity in this sport category. Invest in making women a target demo by giving them a reason to care, and they will…wait for it…buy the gear they need to go out and ride. Magical. But it doesn’t happen over night. It takes investment and a little marketing savvy, both of which are in short supply in the MX industry. Just look at what ONE Danica Patrick achieved for both the US based 4 wheel series!
Promoters dont make money on bike sales.
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murph783
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10/24/2021 12:30pm
murph783 wrote:
I like the idea of bringing back a 2 day schedule. Women’s, 2 strokes, and maybe some amateur stuff Saturday, pros Sunday
wisey wrote:
This. I personally think 2 day has a lot to offer that could help the sport and industry on many levels. Saturday: Qualifications Future amateur Amateur...
This. I personally think 2 day has a lot to offer that could help the sport and industry on many levels.

Saturday:
Qualifications
Future amateur
Amateur kids
Pro women
Pro Vets
Vendors

Sunday:
Pro Motocross



Oh yeah pro vets too, that would be rad. I could get into that
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yak651
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Fantasy
10/24/2021 12:37pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2021 12:38pm
LowCash wrote:
Mx is a business and the answer is simple - follow the money.
If the girls generated big revenue they would still be around.
ktmwoods wrote:
Soooo many short sighted viewpoints. The “business” is selling bikes, components and apparel etc. THAT should be the goal. SX and MX in the states is...
Soooo many short sighted viewpoints. The “business” is selling bikes, components and apparel etc. THAT should be the goal.

SX and MX in the states is propped up by these manufacturers as a marketing vehicle to drive demand generation for the above said equipment. Women represent the largest growth opportunity in this sport category. Invest in making women a target demo by giving them a reason to care, and they will…wait for it…buy the gear they need to go out and ride. Magical. But it doesn’t happen over night. It takes investment and a little marketing savvy, both of which are in short supply in the MX industry. Just look at what ONE Danica Patrick achieved for both the US based 4 wheel series!
Yeah but Danica did that in the “regular” class, not a specialized gender class. Plus she was attractive, no way she would’ve got the opportunities she did if she didn’t have her looks
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Indy mxer
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10/24/2021 12:48pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
The bottom line is that at the highest levels it’s all about entertainment and what people are willing to buy tickets for, or otherwise pay for...
The bottom line is that at the highest levels it’s all about entertainment and what people are willing to buy tickets for, or otherwise pay for.

It’s like the WNBA player who thought that their contracts should mirror NBA contracts, without regard to the revenue generated by the different leagues.

The USWNT (women’s soccer) had somewhat of a point, but I disagreed with their timing. At the time that their contract was signed the women’s team was generating quite a bit less income than the men’s team, but that changed and the women wanted their pay to increase before the next contract negotiations. I didn’t agree with that reasoning but I think that they won what they did because they were all part of the same organization whereas the NBA and WNBA are separate, even if some NBA teams own WNBA franchises.

For Women’s MX, the answer is simple. Hold events with only women’s classes and riders. That will tell you how big of a draw it is. I think that it will be sparse right now.

Hold a women’s professional tennis event and it will probably be packed.

The paying customers/spectators are the metric to use.
Womens sports for the most part are just a tough sell.
The NBA subsidized the WNBA for many years. And I think they still do, but I could be wrong on that.
Their tv ratings are very small and most teams don't get very big crowds.

Even with the help of the NBA and ESPN, the WNBA is still not very popular.

Local promoters run womens classes, so it's not a problem at the local level. As some have said it's just not a fun watch for many people.
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C.Worthy
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10/24/2021 12:57pm
For a professional sport to survive, enough people have to be willing to spend money to watch it to make it economically viable.
Bingo! Not enough people care. Unfortunately it has never and will never grab the attention of the casual fan. To be honest, it's boring and not fun to watch. Mxsports didn't kill the women's professional series, the casual fans did! It's a business, they aren't here to put on a series for charity. The juice probably wasn't worth the squeeze. Losing money isn't a good business plan. Whenever the women raced during intermission at the nationals it seemed like no one had any interest and the porta potty/beer lines would get longer.

They got the best exposure when held on the same day as the men's national and still....no one cared. If it can't survive that then good luck being a stand alone series. If it was a money maker then someone would fill the void and start their own professional women's series....
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Mr. Info
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10/24/2021 1:04pm
A National use to be a weekend event with time to do a lot more but the parties that be wanted a shorter time frame so it became a 1 day event but with the same cost. It took away from a qualifier day and a Women MX race and a 125 or futures race or even a vintage or legands race. Benefit track gets more racing for their cost, fans get more for their cost and vendors of food and everything else like shirts and hats and if the tracks made a little more income.
This is just my opinion but the 2 day events better served the fans and the tracks. The riders are already there for the weekend anyway.
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10/24/2021 1:30pm
yak651 wrote:
Another point are there enough “pro” women to fill a gate? Pro MX had problem getting 15-20 guys that can stay on same lap. Home many...
Another point are there enough “pro” women to fill a gate? Pro MX had problem getting 15-20 guys that can stay on same lap. Home many women are going to be within 45 seconds of Jordan Jarvis? Unfortunately that isn’t going to make “must see” racing
There aren't pro women because none of us have anything to aspire to past local races.
You should be aspiring to be a womens World Champion!! Both Americans Avrie Berry & Jamie Astudillo compete & should be your inspiration. The top women in MXGP are on awsum bikes, travelling the world & are getting paid decent money.
Watch some of the highlight reels & its actually pretty exciting & was a close battle for the championship.
Then you have Lotte Van Drunnen who was only a second off qualifing for the EMX125 having just moved up from an 85.
If there isnt the market in America then there isnt much you can do about it. Set your sights on being a world champ & come to Europe.
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Austin_Rankin
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10/24/2021 2:31pm
twotwosix wrote:
It’s pretty embarrassing to see where Women’s MX has ended up here in the US. When I look at other pro action sports I see women...
It’s pretty embarrassing to see where Women’s MX has ended up here in the US. When I look at other pro action sports I see women thriving. Not Moto. We killed their Pro division. It’s sad. I’m sure the Pattersons, Geigers, Fioleks and Baus of the world are disappointed looking at the sport nowadays…
Everyones dissapointed with the sport male or female what do you mean dude, look at where it was coming from to where its going,

Went from showing up in a pickup truck with your dad to if you dont have a sprintervan or rv or a zuma to ride around in the pits on or a stacyc ($700-900$ investment) for your 2-6 year old your not doing shit with the sport lets face it, and ontop of that teams picking boosting ass familys in order for there teams to keep playing the game cough cough: durgan, the whole thing has changed and who honestly gives a shit when there is tracks putting on races for 20k purse, i can count three of them coming up this weekend and one track isnt even ama.
Female or male a rider or b rider doesnt matter 20k is on the line.

The pro motorcross stuff has became bottom of the barrell for racing, if you disagree ask all the privateers, they make a lousy $600, they would do better at a 20k pro purse race while all the boosters are busy promoting the tv series.

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Johnny Ringo
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10/24/2021 2:46pm
You can thank James Stewart for our current 1 day format
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jeffro503
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10/24/2021 2:49pm
yak651 wrote:
Another point are there enough “pro” women to fill a gate? Pro MX had problem getting 15-20 guys that can stay on same lap. Home many...
Another point are there enough “pro” women to fill a gate? Pro MX had problem getting 15-20 guys that can stay on same lap. Home many women are going to be within 45 seconds of Jordan Jarvis? Unfortunately that isn’t going to make “must see” racing
There aren't pro women because none of us have anything to aspire to past local races.
You should be aspiring to be a womens World Champion!! Both Americans Avrie Berry & Jamie Astudillo compete & should be your inspiration. The top women...
You should be aspiring to be a womens World Champion!! Both Americans Avrie Berry & Jamie Astudillo compete & should be your inspiration. The top women in MXGP are on awsum bikes, travelling the world & are getting paid decent money.
Watch some of the highlight reels & its actually pretty exciting & was a close battle for the championship.
Then you have Lotte Van Drunnen who was only a second off qualifing for the EMX125 having just moved up from an 85.
If there isnt the market in America then there isnt much you can do about it. Set your sights on being a world champ & come to Europe.
That Van Drunnen gal , was a badass on those 85's! I can see her as a future woman's world champ. Not sure what her plans are for next season , but I'm definitely a fan of her racing.
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Hasletjoe
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10/24/2021 4:59pm
I would point to the NHRA as they have a several top notch women drivers. They didn't ask for a "special" class to make them feel good. They take on the best and if they do well, are champions. Creating a class so you can have a champion is pathetic.

Or maybe ne like the Women's Lingeriea Football League and mandate the dress code.
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10/24/2021 5:27pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2021 5:27pm
This was the year they had a women's class at the X games for the enduro cross, it was entertaining but not in a good way.
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BobPA
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10/24/2021 5:32pm
Hasletjoe wrote:
I would point to the NHRA as they have a several top notch women drivers. They didn't ask for a "special" class to make them feel...
I would point to the NHRA as they have a several top notch women drivers. They didn't ask for a "special" class to make them feel good. They take on the best and if they do well, are champions. Creating a class so you can have a champion is pathetic.

Or maybe ne like the Women's Lingeriea Football League and mandate the dress code.
Drag racing and motocross are vastly different in their required skillsets. Most of the drivers in NHRA, male or female, do very little to actually tune the car. Most of the racing is a battle of the car tuners, not the drivers...the drivers just need to cut a light and not crash it. Not saying that it is that simple, but you get the idea.

MX is all about the rider, and much less about the equipment. On average, men are usually physically stronger and have better endurance....especially at professional levels. I am all for having a woman's series, but I do not think it will ever attract enough eye balls to be self sustaining.
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sandtrack315
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10/24/2021 6:51pm
If we had a pro class for women, maybe more women would ride. If more women rode, maybe we’d have a pro class for women.
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10/24/2021 9:14pm
What are all of you afraid of - the girls beating you or your boys. Let the girls race for a chip - but make it on Friday or Sunday as others have stated. And yes - some core people will go but yes - mostly just those with family or friends racing.

And for those of you stating - just let them try and race the guys - have you watched, golf, tennis and the olympics. They should have a class to ride in and if any can run with the boys - let them.

The sport has done stupid stuff to get girls/women interested in MX - (make up to mud) - but allowing them to race for a chip will get more families involved, sell more bikes, sell more gear and put more money in the sport.

So put them on amature day and let them rip. And the promoters will get a few more bucks as will local tracksl.

More people in the sport is better, Sounds like a win win.
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Boggins
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10/24/2021 9:24pm
Would love to see the Women have their program at the Nat's!
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Motofinne
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10/24/2021 11:24pm
Funny stuff reading this thread. Year after year we have threads about how to grow the sport. But lets at the same time shit on and alienate 50% of the population and a large potential customer base.

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SilverSpurs
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10/24/2021 11:25pm
Spat24 wrote:
What are all of you afraid of - the girls beating you or your boys. Let the girls race for a chip - but make it...
What are all of you afraid of - the girls beating you or your boys. Let the girls race for a chip - but make it on Friday or Sunday as others have stated. And yes - some core people will go but yes - mostly just those with family or friends racing.

And for those of you stating - just let them try and race the guys - have you watched, golf, tennis and the olympics. They should have a class to ride in and if any can run with the boys - let them.

The sport has done stupid stuff to get girls/women interested in MX - (make up to mud) - but allowing them to race for a chip will get more families involved, sell more bikes, sell more gear and put more money in the sport.

So put them on amature day and let them rip. And the promoters will get a few more bucks as will local tracksl.

More people in the sport is better, Sounds like a win win.
It's been tried many times and doesn't work.
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FreshTopEnd
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10/25/2021 8:22am
Everyone thinks their product is special; the market is the cold judge.
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Moto520
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10/25/2021 8:30am
I miss the women's racing. I would like them to include a women's series for us to follow. In UFC (MMA)....the women's fights are just as good as the men's fights. It creates a bunch of storylines and things to talk about between fights. I would vote to bring it back.
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Bret
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10/25/2021 8:41am
There's no money in it.
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drivrswntd
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10/25/2021 9:10am Edited Date/Time 10/25/2021 9:51am
Some of these comments are pretty pathetic. Hope you don't have daughters!

Realistically if you wanted to put a serious effort into achieving this it is going to take 10-15 years and has to start at the grassroots local level. We have one local track that offers a girl's class and it is 9-15. Last race of the season we had 15 girls in the class. At the start of the season I think there were 6-8. To get more girls in the sport I feel you need to start with some dedicated girls classes at the younger level to bring them in and get started. The AMA is not running Girls 9-13 on the national level and only starts at 11. Get them in young and start building a base of girls and new girls in the sport. At the end of the day it just gives us a larger base, new people in the sport, more bike sales and everyone wins.

My daughter races a 65 and is AMA 9. Most races she is lined up with all boys and she has 2-3 other girls that will be there depending on where we are. That can be intimidating trying to come into the sport. She always has a ton of people cheering her on especially when "She's THE girl on the gate" tearing it up with the boys. I've also noticed a different demeanor and attitude when she's on the gate with just girls.

The potential is there but we need to focus on building the base and getting them into the sport!


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mark_swart
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10/25/2021 9:40am Edited Date/Time 10/25/2021 9:46am
We have 12 nationals.... it would be rad to have a condensed Women's series at six of them, a "Legends" +50 series at three, and some 125 invitational jackassery at the other three. Maybe it's not fit for full-up TV production, but you can't tell me that those things couldn't draw coverage with coverage comparable to what we see at LL or Mini O's. It would be a nice add-on to the TV package and might get more people to subscribe to the streaming package, or maybe it's straight to YouTube or Red Bull TV and makes money through that platform.
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twotwosix
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10/25/2021 10:12am
Factory Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki 250 rides, Pro Red Bull, Rockstar and Monster contracts, TV coverage and mainstream magazine features... If I had a daughter who rode these days, I'd be pretty bummed to see what it has devolved into. I don't see little girls having anyone to look up to or any Championship to strive to win. Godbless Golden, Hodges and whoever is still laying it down for the little girls of the world to look up to.










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drivrswntd
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10/25/2021 10:18am
twotwosix wrote:
Factory Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki 250 rides, Pro Red Bull, Rockstar and Monster contracts, TV coverage and mainstream magazine features... If I had a daughter who...
Factory Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki 250 rides, Pro Red Bull, Rockstar and Monster contracts, TV coverage and mainstream magazine features... If I had a daughter who rode these days, I'd be pretty bummed to see what it has devolved into. I don't see little girls having anyone to look up to or any Championship to strive to win. Godbless Golden, Hodges and whoever is still laying it down for the little girls of the world to look up to.










Mine looks up to Jordan Jarvis and was pretty cool she got to chat with her for about 10 min at the Southwick National. We are still 2 years away from AMA 11 and making a big push. Will just keep going out having fun and learning with the boys for now!
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APLMAN99
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drivrswntd wrote:
Some of these comments are pretty pathetic. Hope you don't have daughters! Realistically if you wanted to put a serious effort into achieving this it is...
Some of these comments are pretty pathetic. Hope you don't have daughters!

Realistically if you wanted to put a serious effort into achieving this it is going to take 10-15 years and has to start at the grassroots local level. We have one local track that offers a girl's class and it is 9-15. Last race of the season we had 15 girls in the class. At the start of the season I think there were 6-8. To get more girls in the sport I feel you need to start with some dedicated girls classes at the younger level to bring them in and get started. The AMA is not running Girls 9-13 on the national level and only starts at 11. Get them in young and start building a base of girls and new girls in the sport. At the end of the day it just gives us a larger base, new people in the sport, more bike sales and everyone wins.

My daughter races a 65 and is AMA 9. Most races she is lined up with all boys and she has 2-3 other girls that will be there depending on where we are. That can be intimidating trying to come into the sport. She always has a ton of people cheering her on especially when "She's THE girl on the gate" tearing it up with the boys. I've also noticed a different demeanor and attitude when she's on the gate with just girls.

The potential is there but we need to focus on building the base and getting them into the sport!


My post wasn't meant to bash on women racers or their classes. I do think that you are right at your first inference, having a daughter may give you a slightly different perspective, but in the end it comes down to whether or not people will pay money or devote time to watching it as to whether it will succeed.

I actually like watching women's college and WNBA basketball, but I think that is likely because I spent a lot of years traveling with my daughter for her AAU basketball teams. It's different than the men's game, and if you need to be awed by dunks and playing above the rim then it won't be very exciting. But it seems to be a lot more strategic than the men's game and that's something that you develop an appreciation for over time I think.

Same thing with women's soccer and tennis. I would prefer to watch those over the men's game most of the time because the strategies are just different enough to make it more appealing.

For a women's class in MX/SX to succeed, you'd really need to have a pretty decent sized group of women (6-8) who could all win or be within 5-10 seconds of the lead for nearly the whole moto. If you had one woman who was so much faster than the field then it would be too boring and make the others look very bad. The last thing that the women's class should want is someone who is akin to a Jeremy McGrath in his prime type of racer.

If you had close racing, it really wouldn't matter (to me at least) if they are doing the same jumps as the men are. I thoroughly enjoyed, and still would, watching a guy like DeCoster race while never even attempting a triple jump.

I think that the women's classes should try holding their own events, not on a National weekend. Without having the men's classes their to compare it to may be more appealing because you don't have people seeing these insane jumps by the men followed by most of the women's field singling everything. Everything is relative and if the Women's Pro class is the fastest racing of the day, it will seem much more fast and exciting to the spectators.

Once the following grows, then perhaps merge it with some of the 'regular' Nationals.
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