The bike.the myth.the ride that changed mx riding

Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 12/26/2020 8:09pm
12/26/2020 8:09pm
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
RC worked him on big bikes I’m sure he woulda found a way on small bores also
eric513anderson wrote:
I think for the most part in the latter years because of RC being on the 450 while James was still on the Kx250 two-stroke. That...
I think for the most part in the latter years because of RC being on the 450 while James was still on the Kx250 two-stroke. That two-stroke although it had (from what I’ve read) a phenomenal engine built by Rick Ash still wasn’t a match for a factory 450. Torque. That’s what I think it came down to for that 05 season
Stew was only on a two stroke the first year
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numbers
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numbers 12/26/2020 8:11pm
12/26/2020 8:11pm
JeepnMike wrote:
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a...
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a 4 stroke? I recall the bike looking like an absolute tank.
ZOBITO wrote:
Yup, first guy putting a thumper in the main. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/26/468140/s1200_Smaillance.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/26/468139/s1200_smail9.jpg[/img] https://motocrossactionmag.com/supercross-history-the-bike-that-time-forgot/
Yup, first guy putting a thumper in the main.





https://motocrossactionmag.com/supercross-history-the-bike-that-time-fo…
fullysicmate wrote:
Who’s this fella?
Your avatar is amazing. How did you take a self at that angle.
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profeshenal125 12/26/2020 9:25pm
12/26/2020 9:25pm
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
RC worked him on big bikes I’m sure he woulda found a way on small bores also
Bubba is crazy fast, his extreme scrub was new. But not a scrub. His corner speed is not in the top 10 of the fastest 125 riders. Take 3 season championships, I would pick RC as champion all 3 seasons. DC has said the fastest 125 rider ever in 1 race was that Paul Malin 94 when he beat Emig. There is a few riders that could have handled James, for a race or 2. When he was on Reynard, would make it look easy. Reed rode 250 2st at 15, he is not a small bike rider. Jesseman is a great rider, Langston was nursing injuries, a lot of his speed was missing. Brown was loosing speed. 02-04 there wasn’t a deep field of talent in the 125 class.
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Chris_Buehler
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Chris_Buehler 12/26/2020 10:09pm
12/26/2020 10:09pm
James is the 125 GOAT. This isn't even a discussion if you watched him race one
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mx216
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mx216 12/26/2020 10:19pm
12/26/2020 10:19pm
James' riding style on the 125 worked. I honestly don't think anyone from any era could touch him the on the 125 or even a 250f. The bigger bikes not the same story. He is definitely the 125 GOAT, regardless of what record books show. He was just that dang good.
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captain.olives
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captain.olives 12/26/2020 11:09pm
12/26/2020 11:09pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I thought this was gonna be about the '73 Elsinores or the 1st OW/YZ400 that Dubach raced...

Grinning
The DT1 or any number of other machines.
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Question
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Question 12/27/2020 12:56am
12/27/2020 12:56am Edited Date/Time 12/27/2020 12:59am
I am not sure but while thinking about it, it may be the Vertemati, from 1994 to 97, with Smets as a rider, coupled with an already competitive Husky from early 90s with Jacky Martens on board, and with also KTMs, that proved the Japanese that 4 strokes could be competitive again in mx. The vertemati may be a more important piece of history than thought initially for collectors. And just as I write that I see the Husaberg 1993 for Smets looking pretty modern too in the engine department.
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Question 12/27/2020 1:01am
12/27/2020 1:01am

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johnmx250 12/27/2020 5:51am
12/27/2020 5:51am
You guys are right the title is misleading.james made the bike one of the most iconic.for sure it was good a bike non the less but his rides on it made it look 1000 times more wanted
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davistld01
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davistld01 12/27/2020 6:04am
12/27/2020 6:04am
What’s the old saying, “80% rider & 20% bike”? That’s what that success formula was with the Kawie & Stew.
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Silas444
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Silas444 12/27/2020 6:43am
12/27/2020 6:43am
Deep into the second page and no one's said the word "Mugen" yet? What is WRONG with you people?

I'd like to take a moment to further highjack this thread by insisting that, "the bike that changed MX" was the completely exotic, mind-blowingly capable, twin-cylinder, Ribi forked works Honda RC125 of 1981. That bike taught the AMA that they could arbitrarily ban whatever they wanted to, whenever they wanted to, especially if it was really odd and really GOOD.

Why aren't you and I riding twin-cylinder, two-stroke 185s that weigh 170 pounds, produce amazing power everywhere, and feel like BMX bikes? THAT HONDA, is why. Our little world ain't been the same since, because the wings of innovation were successfully clipped. We're much like Formula 1 now, where it's not the best cars that COULD be built that are out on the track competing, but the best that are ALLOWED to be built, The Tyrrell P34 six wheeler comes to mind. We can't know what we don't know, but when the horizons of genius minds are forcibly narrowed, there can be no doubt that something has been lost. Oh, well.
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brimx153
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brimx153 12/27/2020 7:16am
12/27/2020 7:16am
In supercross james could be a bit quicker on some night anyone who thinks james was quicker than RC outdoors is smoking something. Its not even that close outdoors imo . Stew was sooo on the edge to keep up RC outdoors, they both were on the edge in supercross.
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queen of spodes 12/27/2020 7:41am
12/27/2020 7:41am
TeamGreen wrote:
I thought this was gonna be about the '73 Elsinores or the 1st OW/YZ400 that Dubach raced...

Grinning
JeepnMike wrote:
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a...
I was thinking the same thing, had to be about 4 strokes. Didn't Smail actually win the race to be the first to qualify on a 4 stroke? I recall the bike looking like an absolute tank.
As pictured above the bike was a highly modified KTM LC4 dual sport.
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Rabbit Run 41 12/27/2020 8:30am
12/27/2020 8:30am
I think I still have welts on my chest from chasing a Husaberg (501?) up the hill at Clarks Branch Oregon in the 90's. Man that hurt!
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rob.boucher.547 12/27/2020 9:16am
12/27/2020 9:16am
Most of these posts/ riders are after the true
MX boom in this country, when there were
1000 entries on a sunday for mx
I think the Yamaha mono, Honda CR, Suzuki
RM's sold by the thousands, racers, trail riders alike for every one that was on the
track on a Sunday, 5 were being trail,gravel
pit, hill climbing daily in the USA.
Even in my small town in northern mn
there were dozens of bikes being used
and every season, dozens were bought new!
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Suicidal_Tendencies 12/27/2020 9:22am
12/27/2020 9:22am
brimx153 wrote:
In supercross james could be a bit quicker on some night anyone who thinks james was quicker than RC outdoors is smoking something. Its not even...
In supercross james could be a bit quicker on some night anyone who thinks james was quicker than RC outdoors is smoking something. Its not even that close outdoors imo . Stew was sooo on the edge to keep up RC outdoors, they both were on the edge in supercross.
We're talking 125 outdoors.
loftyair
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loftyair 12/27/2020 9:59am
12/27/2020 9:59am
James was fastest. (Not always)
Ricky was best. (Not always)
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m21racing
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m21racing 12/27/2020 10:08am
12/27/2020 10:08am
That was a sick ride, and was an awesome outdoor season. We were at mmi Phoenix, and I had an aussie roommate. We had parties for the nationals every weekend during that summer. I also remember you could still find an 02 kx250 for less than 4k brand new.

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Titan1
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Titan1 12/27/2020 10:10am
12/27/2020 10:10am
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
RC worked him on big bikes I’m sure he woulda found a way on small bores also
profeshenal125 wrote:
Bubba is crazy fast, his extreme scrub was new. But not a scrub. His corner speed is not in the top 10 of the fastest 125...
Bubba is crazy fast, his extreme scrub was new. But not a scrub. His corner speed is not in the top 10 of the fastest 125 riders. Take 3 season championships, I would pick RC as champion all 3 seasons. DC has said the fastest 125 rider ever in 1 race was that Paul Malin 94 when he beat Emig. There is a few riders that could have handled James, for a race or 2. When he was on Reynard, would make it look easy. Reed rode 250 2st at 15, he is not a small bike rider. Jesseman is a great rider, Langston was nursing injuries, a lot of his speed was missing. Brown was loosing speed. 02-04 there wasn’t a deep field of talent in the 125 class.
You lost me at “his corner speed is not in the top 10...”
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Motocross83 12/27/2020 11:25am
12/27/2020 11:25am
I honestly think James is the best 125 rider that ever was, even taking into account different eras.

RC was also amazing on the 125 (and everything) but a Vohland or Windham could still give him a run etc - whereas no one, 250f or otherwise (well, with the exception of Roncada at Vegas and Hangtown in 2004) could get near Stewart. He was just ridiculous, utterly ridiculous.

In fact I think he was so good on the 125 that it may have inadvertently lolled him into a false sense of security for the big class, because there's no doubt Ricky had his number there. Even if we remove 2005 and the disadvantage of being on a 250, James wasn't ultimately able to do to Ricky outdoors (or in) what Ricky was able to do to McGrath. And that was really the expectation from many at the time, but of course it just doesn't necessarily translate like that to the premier class. The bigger bikes are different. Still a phenomenal career of course.
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brimx153
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brimx153 12/27/2020 1:46pm
12/27/2020 1:46pm
brimx153 wrote:
In supercross james could be a bit quicker on some night anyone who thinks james was quicker than RC outdoors is smoking something. Its not even...
In supercross james could be a bit quicker on some night anyone who thinks james was quicker than RC outdoors is smoking something. Its not even that close outdoors imo . Stew was sooo on the edge to keep up RC outdoors, they both were on the edge in supercross.
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
We're talking 125 outdoors.
So RC wins easily just like every other time
1
brimx153
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brimx153 12/27/2020 1:51pm
12/27/2020 1:51pm
Motocross83 wrote:
I honestly think James is the best 125 rider that ever was, even taking into account different eras. RC was also amazing on the 125 (and...
I honestly think James is the best 125 rider that ever was, even taking into account different eras.

RC was also amazing on the 125 (and everything) but a Vohland or Windham could still give him a run etc - whereas no one, 250f or otherwise (well, with the exception of Roncada at Vegas and Hangtown in 2004) could get near Stewart. He was just ridiculous, utterly ridiculous.

In fact I think he was so good on the 125 that it may have inadvertently lolled him into a false sense of security for the big class, because there's no doubt Ricky had his number there. Even if we remove 2005 and the disadvantage of being on a 250, James wasn't ultimately able to do to Ricky outdoors (or in) what Ricky was able to do to McGrath. And that was really the expectation from many at the time, but of course it just doesn't necessarily translate like that to the premier class. The bigger bikes are different. Still a phenomenal career of course.
On his day Vohland could give anyone a run .even james imo . Just he was all over the place doing it .
Richard Tease II 12/27/2020 8:23pm
12/27/2020 8:23pm
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
I think James would have smoked RC on a 125. James was the best 125 rider ever.
ktmfun219 wrote:
Your last sentence is incorrect just as a note.
The "Bomber" has that distinguished award!
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
Not according to the record books. Smile
Didn’t the Bomber sand bag the 125 class and spent like 8yrs in it as well?
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109
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109 12/27/2020 9:08pm
12/27/2020 9:08pm
I think it was the rider that changed the sport not the bike. James would have done that on any brand.
CPR
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CPR 12/27/2020 11:00pm
12/27/2020 11:00pm
Two pages in and no one has mentioned Johnny O’mara or Steve Lamson on 125’s?!
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Yeti831
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Yeti831 12/27/2020 11:21pm
12/27/2020 11:21pm Edited Date/Time 12/27/2020 11:23pm
Of all the bikes that media outlets that teams have had ride and review rider's individual bikes, I'd absolutely love to see a video or a helmet cam and post ride review of someone slinging that work of art around a track one more time Woohoo
profeshenal125 12/28/2020 5:49am
12/28/2020 5:49am
CPR wrote:
Two pages in and no one has mentioned Johnny O’mara or Steve Lamson on 125’s?!
Yeah Lamson , 96 des nation,s beat everyone. Tortelli wasn,t far back tho. He won a lot that year. Chiodi 97-99 won a lot. 90,s had a long list of fast European riders. There corner speed was crazy fast. Even on flat corners, James was really fast on those too tho. Eric Eggens 4 th gear in 2nd gear sand corners, unreal corner speed. Dutch rider.
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OG725
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OG725 12/28/2020 6:02am
12/28/2020 6:02am
TeamGreen wrote:
I thought this was gonna be about the '73 Elsinores or the 1st OW/YZ400 that Dubach raced...

Grinning
I was thinking the Doug Henry version, that night in Vega$! We all laughed at four strokes until that very moment.
DPR250R
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DPR250R 12/28/2020 6:33am
12/28/2020 6:33am
Awesome vid... thanks for posting.

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