KTM Has an Entire Year's Worth of Unsold Motorcycles Piling Up 265,000 motorcycles are just...hangin' around.

12/24/2024 3:33pm

I’ll take a few off their hands for the right price, where can I hit em up.

5
12/24/2024 4:06pm
MXBen711 wrote:
I’m definitive because it’s part of the plan. Gas Gas has trials, unless KTM are going to start rebranding they want that in their portfolio. I...

I’m definitive because it’s part of the plan. Gas Gas has trials, unless KTM are going to start rebranding they want that in their portfolio. I don’t need a crystal ball for this. I think from here on out I’ll just wait for February and then come back to this thread

How many trials bikes do you think that GagGas sells ? What percentage of their net profit depend on trials bikes ? 
What happens in February ? I don’t see any big decisions coming in the next two months. GasGas will have to fulfill contracts of Barcia and Ryder D until outdoors is over. I’m not saying GasGas is 100% getting canned, but there’s a good chance it may ! 

 

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1
12/24/2024 4:34pm

Those are big checks, someone is watching for them. I'm hoping the riders don't get screwed.

MxAddic wrote:

All of the contracts can be thrown out by the court for PMG or the new owners. That's what you call a hot seat.

The Dungey bro's are watching closely.

Team403
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12/24/2024 6:09pm Edited Date/Time 12/24/2024 6:40pm
MXBen711 wrote:
I’m definitive because it’s part of the plan. Gas Gas has trials, unless KTM are going to start rebranding they want that in their portfolio. I...

I’m definitive because it’s part of the plan. Gas Gas has trials, unless KTM are going to start rebranding they want that in their portfolio. I don’t need a crystal ball for this. I think from here on out I’ll just wait for February and then come back to this thread

Langhammx wrote:
How many trials bikes do you think that GagGas sells ? What percentage of their net profit depend on trials bikes ? What happens in February...

How many trials bikes do you think that GagGas sells ? What percentage of their net profit depend on trials bikes ? 
What happens in February ? I don’t see any big decisions coming in the next two months. GasGas will have to fulfill contracts of Barcia and Ryder D until outdoors is over. I’m not saying GasGas is 100% getting canned, but there’s a good chance it may ! 

 

Seems like if you are in a cash flow situation you would use the bankruptcy process to get out of every contract that is not favorable to the new path forward.   I’d hate to see any racers / staff get let go but if you plan to axe GG for instance - why continue to spend the $ to promote it🤔

2

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JazzyJJ
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12/25/2024 6:05am
MXBen711 wrote:
I’m definitive because it’s part of the plan. Gas Gas has trials, unless KTM are going to start rebranding they want that in their portfolio. I...

I’m definitive because it’s part of the plan. Gas Gas has trials, unless KTM are going to start rebranding they want that in their portfolio. I don’t need a crystal ball for this. I think from here on out I’ll just wait for February and then come back to this thread

Langhammx wrote:
How many trials bikes do you think that GagGas sells ? What percentage of their net profit depend on trials bikes ? What happens in February...

How many trials bikes do you think that GagGas sells ? What percentage of their net profit depend on trials bikes ? 
What happens in February ? I don’t see any big decisions coming in the next two months. GasGas will have to fulfill contracts of Barcia and Ryder D until outdoors is over. I’m not saying GasGas is 100% getting canned, but there’s a good chance it may ! 

 

Team403 wrote:
Seems like if you are in a cash flow situation you would use the bankruptcy process to get out of every contract that is not favorable...

Seems like if you are in a cash flow situation you would use the bankruptcy process to get out of every contract that is not favorable to the new path forward.   I’d hate to see any racers / staff get let go but if you plan to axe GG for instance - why continue to spend the $ to promote it🤔

Nails it. Could always increase contingency for the pro level stuff as well to encourage more private teams to ride them.

12/25/2024 6:45am Edited Date/Time 12/25/2024 10:50am
MXBen711 wrote:
I’m definitive because it’s part of the plan. Gas Gas has trials, unless KTM are going to start rebranding they want that in their portfolio. I...

I’m definitive because it’s part of the plan. Gas Gas has trials, unless KTM are going to start rebranding they want that in their portfolio. I don’t need a crystal ball for this. I think from here on out I’ll just wait for February and then come back to this thread

Langhammx wrote:
How many trials bikes do you think that GagGas sells ? What percentage of their net profit depend on trials bikes ? What happens in February...

How many trials bikes do you think that GagGas sells ? What percentage of their net profit depend on trials bikes ? 
What happens in February ? I don’t see any big decisions coming in the next two months. GasGas will have to fulfill contracts of Barcia and Ryder D until outdoors is over. I’m not saying GasGas is 100% getting canned, but there’s a good chance it may ! 

 

Gas Gas produces/sells just around 5000 trials bikes a year. 

burn1986
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12/25/2024 7:55am

Since we’re talking about KTM

12/25/2024 8:13am

Get ready for some hellacious deals. 

3
MxAddic
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12/25/2024 8:21am Edited Date/Time 12/25/2024 8:23am

Get ready for some hellacious deals. 

I am not so sure. The bigger the rebate, the more they lose.

The dealer is not going to sell you the bike for $5K when they paid $8K if the company fails.

Maybe you are eyeballing the ones at the factory? Do you think the first thing the new owner will do is blow them out? You are going to wait a long time on those.

1
1
blakey32
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12/25/2024 9:47am
Putting aside the bicycle fiasco element, I'd be curious how much of the overstock are street/adventure models versus the pure dirt bikes up to and including...

Putting aside the bicycle fiasco element, I'd be curious how much of the overstock are street/adventure models versus the pure dirt bikes up to and including the 500.  I'd guess the street side was getting pumped given the bigger market than exists for dirt bikes.  

My guess would be the excess stock is majority street/adventure. 

Hard to sell things that eat camshafts. Also, it can be hard to sell "luxury" items that are made in India/ China.

6
4
brocster
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12/25/2024 9:56am

Get ready for some hellacious deals. 

MxAddic wrote:
I am not so sure. The bigger the rebate, the more they lose.The dealer is not going to sell you the bike for $5K when they...

I am not so sure. The bigger the rebate, the more they lose.

The dealer is not going to sell you the bike for $5K when they paid $8K if the company fails.

Maybe you are eyeballing the ones at the factory? Do you think the first thing the new owner will do is blow them out? You are going to wait a long time on those.

I would think that dealers would fire sale them and atleast re coup some money before the mother ship goes belly up and they are stuck with inventory from a company/companies that no longer exists. 

4
wwdiii
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12/25/2024 10:08am

KTM no doubt has a rocky road ahead of them.  I doubt they will go away.  We’ve had some American companies go away for a short time and come back.  Remington and Winchester Arms are two for example.  You can still buy a Remington 700, just made in a different state by different people.

I’d bet their venture capital companies waiting to pounce on KTM or a portion of the company.  

2
MxAddic
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12/25/2024 10:19am
brocster wrote:
I would think that dealers would fire sale them and atleast re coup some money before the mother ship goes belly up and they are stuck...

I would think that dealers would fire sale them and atleast re coup some money before the mother ship goes belly up and they are stuck with inventory from a company/companies that no longer exists. 

I agree it is absolutely possible.

The way things are shaping up the brand is about 90% chance of survival. I suspect there are at least 3 vultures, I mean bidders waiting in the wings.

Nothing personal just business.

1
4
12/25/2024 11:16am

Get ready for some hellacious deals. 

MxAddic wrote:
I am not so sure. The bigger the rebate, the more they lose.The dealer is not going to sell you the bike for $5K when they...

I am not so sure. The bigger the rebate, the more they lose.

The dealer is not going to sell you the bike for $5K when they paid $8K if the company fails.

Maybe you are eyeballing the ones at the factory? Do you think the first thing the new owner will do is blow them out? You are going to wait a long time on those.

brocster wrote:
I would think that dealers would fire sale them and atleast re coup some money before the mother ship goes belly up and they are stuck...

I would think that dealers would fire sale them and atleast re coup some money before the mother ship goes belly up and they are stuck with inventory from a company/companies that no longer exists. 

Correct 

cwel11
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12/25/2024 11:37am
MxAddic wrote:
I am not so sure. The bigger the rebate, the more they lose.The dealer is not going to sell you the bike for $5K when they...

I am not so sure. The bigger the rebate, the more they lose.

The dealer is not going to sell you the bike for $5K when they paid $8K if the company fails.

Maybe you are eyeballing the ones at the factory? Do you think the first thing the new owner will do is blow them out? You are going to wait a long time on those.

brocster wrote:
I would think that dealers would fire sale them and atleast re coup some money before the mother ship goes belly up and they are stuck...

I would think that dealers would fire sale them and atleast re coup some money before the mother ship goes belly up and they are stuck with inventory from a company/companies that no longer exists. 

Correct 

This may happen eventually but if you’re a dealer and ktm hasn’t announced any rebates are you really gonna have a fire sale? Right now for the dealers it’s business as usual and they’re being told absolutely nothing. Everyone wondering why it’s not already happening maybe should try to put themselves in the dealers position. I’ll be the first to tell you I’ve got no love for the dealerships but they’re a ship with no compass at the moment and they’re unsure about their future as well. Everyone seems to just be a vulture circling for their scraps right now and that’s all they care about. 

1
12/25/2024 12:33pm
brocster wrote:
I would think that dealers would fire sale them and atleast re coup some money before the mother ship goes belly up and they are stuck...

I would think that dealers would fire sale them and atleast re coup some money before the mother ship goes belly up and they are stuck with inventory from a company/companies that no longer exists. 

Correct 

cwel11 wrote:
This may happen eventually but if you’re a dealer and ktm hasn’t announced any rebates are you really gonna have a fire sale? Right now for...

This may happen eventually but if you’re a dealer and ktm hasn’t announced any rebates are you really gonna have a fire sale? Right now for the dealers it’s business as usual and they’re being told absolutely nothing. Everyone wondering why it’s not already happening maybe should try to put themselves in the dealers position. I’ll be the first to tell you I’ve got no love for the dealerships but they’re a ship with no compass at the moment and they’re unsure about their future as well. Everyone seems to just be a vulture circling for their scraps right now and that’s all they care about. 

Clearing the backlog will be one of the keys to any plan. Wouldn't be surprising if there's some incentives in this regard. 

endurox
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12/25/2024 12:52pm
Langhammx wrote:

GasGas may not survive. 

MXBen711 wrote:
Gas Gas and Husqvarna are 100% owned by PMG and are customers for parts and development of KTM. Gas Gas Road has already been canned, MX...

Gas Gas and Husqvarna are 100% owned by PMG and are customers for parts and development of KTM. Gas Gas Road has already been canned, MX and Enduro will likely continue

Is it true that GG is 100% owned by the PMG?  The sale was announced that they acquired 60% of GG with a private equity group...

Is it true that GG is 100% owned by the PMG?  The sale was announced that they acquired 60% of GG with a private equity group retaining 40% of GG.  I have not been able to find additional information on the acquisition of the remaining 40% so I'm just asking if they really do own all of GG.

Also, please remember the GG trials motorcycles are also under PMG ownership.  Like it or not, trials motorcycles will be a factor in what happens with PMG in the future either as retention of the brand name or for divestiture.

https://www.cyclenews.com/2019/09/article/ktm-buys-gasgas/#:~:text=KTM%…(soon%20to%20be,a%2060%25%20stake%20in%20GasGas.

Wonder how much the 11% buyout by GG in Girona will cost to take a 51% control?  Would hate to see the trials bikes vanish after nearly 40 years.. 

Picture

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Beagle
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12/25/2024 1:20pm
MXBen711 wrote:
I’m definitive because it’s part of the plan. Gas Gas has trials, unless KTM are going to start rebranding they want that in their portfolio. I...

I’m definitive because it’s part of the plan. Gas Gas has trials, unless KTM are going to start rebranding they want that in their portfolio. I don’t need a crystal ball for this. I think from here on out I’ll just wait for February and then come back to this thread

Langhammx wrote:
How many trials bikes do you think that GagGas sells ? What percentage of their net profit depend on trials bikes ? What happens in February...

How many trials bikes do you think that GagGas sells ? What percentage of their net profit depend on trials bikes ? 
What happens in February ? I don’t see any big decisions coming in the next two months. GasGas will have to fulfill contracts of Barcia and Ryder D until outdoors is over. I’m not saying GasGas is 100% getting canned, but there’s a good chance it may ! 

 

Gas Gas produces/sells just around 5000 trials bikes a year. 

Sounds about right, from PMG 2023 report, 29 532 Gasgas motorcycles were sold, of which 5 500 were made in Spain.

Assuming only trial bikes are made in Spain, trials would be a very significant 19% of Gasgas sales! That's a very distinct and successful lineup of motorcycles made in a state of the art factory physically independent from Mattighofen.

APLMAN99
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Fantasy
12/25/2024 1:54pm

Would be interesting if Bajaj somehow infuses a bit of cash and takes control of Husqvarna, Gas Gas, and MV Augusta.

MxAddic
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12/25/2024 2:17pm

If you believe this video I would imagine these units are going to be a hard sell.

2
4
12/25/2024 4:32pm

Correct 

cwel11 wrote:
This may happen eventually but if you’re a dealer and ktm hasn’t announced any rebates are you really gonna have a fire sale? Right now for...

This may happen eventually but if you’re a dealer and ktm hasn’t announced any rebates are you really gonna have a fire sale? Right now for the dealers it’s business as usual and they’re being told absolutely nothing. Everyone wondering why it’s not already happening maybe should try to put themselves in the dealers position. I’ll be the first to tell you I’ve got no love for the dealerships but they’re a ship with no compass at the moment and they’re unsure about their future as well. Everyone seems to just be a vulture circling for their scraps right now and that’s all they care about. 

Clearing the backlog will be one of the keys to any plan. Wouldn't be surprising if there's some incentives in this regard. 

It's the only way to move product. Unless they plan to undercut the dealers.

2
Nairb#70
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12/25/2024 5:06pm

It's the only way to move product. Unless they plan to undercut the dealers.

Leftovers are good for lunch the next day, but not good for powersports dealers OR manufacturers.

1
MxAddic
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12/25/2024 5:14pm

They are selling freerides for $5K.

1
Tiki
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12/25/2024 5:34pm

Get ready for some hellacious deals. 

Screenshot 2024-12-25 17.33.55

Let us know how that works out. 

2
FreshTopEnd
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12/25/2024 5:49pm
Putting aside the bicycle fiasco element, I'd be curious how much of the overstock are street/adventure models versus the pure dirt bikes up to and including...

Putting aside the bicycle fiasco element, I'd be curious how much of the overstock are street/adventure models versus the pure dirt bikes up to and including the 500.  I'd guess the street side was getting pumped given the bigger market than exists for dirt bikes.  

blakey32 wrote:
My guess would be the excess stock is majority street/adventure. Hard to sell things that eat camshafts. Also, it can be hard to sell "luxury" items that...

My guess would be the excess stock is majority street/adventure. 

Hard to sell things that eat camshafts. Also, it can be hard to sell "luxury" items that are made in India/ China.

Yeah, I've read the camshaft issue is pervasive on the 790 up street/adventure bikes.   

OIP.ikW9 0fO0oiWx0tu41TC4QAAAA
2
Dave v3.0
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12/25/2024 6:38pm
Putting aside the bicycle fiasco element, I'd be curious how much of the overstock are street/adventure models versus the pure dirt bikes up to and including...

Putting aside the bicycle fiasco element, I'd be curious how much of the overstock are street/adventure models versus the pure dirt bikes up to and including the 500.  I'd guess the street side was getting pumped given the bigger market than exists for dirt bikes.  

blakey32 wrote:
My guess would be the excess stock is majority street/adventure. Hard to sell things that eat camshafts. Also, it can be hard to sell "luxury" items that...

My guess would be the excess stock is majority street/adventure. 

Hard to sell things that eat camshafts. Also, it can be hard to sell "luxury" items that are made in India/ China.

Yeah, I've read the camshaft issue is pervasive on the 790 up street/adventure bikes.   

Yeah, I've read the camshaft issue is pervasive on the 790 up street/adventure bikes.   

OIP.ikW9 0fO0oiWx0tu41TC4QAAAA

Shades of Maico's failure to properly heat treat gears and hubs...and we all know how that ended up.

1
Tyler D
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12/25/2024 6:41pm
MXBen711 wrote:
Just for some clarity, I actually work in the powersports industry and I’ve never even heard of that guy.A lot of YouTube/Facebook content is just made...

Just for some clarity, I actually work in the powersports industry and I’ve never even heard of that guy.

A lot of YouTube/Facebook content is just made up. KTM have financial difficulties, this is a fact. They are going to take down some of the brands that supply them on the way to saving themselves and as I said in an earlier post E Bikes, staff and MV are the initial casualties. When they started building bikes as far back as 2024 the sell through wasn’t what it was supposed to be, so add 2024, 2025 and 2026 production bills together and the pot is empty. This is why people they owe money too are knocking on the door, the pot is empty and the bills are overdue. Now they will settle debts at 30% of the value, liquidate inventory to reclaim some funds and go again. 

KTM seem to have some people really wanting them to fail, but they won’t be going anywhere. They will be different, KTM as an MX brand, Husky as an enduro brand and Gas Gas a small budget brand with no road. Powerparts will be less all encompassing if it survives as a division at all and you’ll see them go forward as they were before COVID, maybe a bit more focussed on a core market.
 

Langhammx wrote:

GasGas may not survive. 

gas gas should be trials bikes and trick scooters

1
12/25/2024 8:55pm Edited Date/Time 12/25/2024 8:56pm
Langhammx wrote:
How many trials bikes do you think that GagGas sells ? What percentage of their net profit depend on trials bikes ? What happens in February...

How many trials bikes do you think that GagGas sells ? What percentage of their net profit depend on trials bikes ? 
What happens in February ? I don’t see any big decisions coming in the next two months. GasGas will have to fulfill contracts of Barcia and Ryder D until outdoors is over. I’m not saying GasGas is 100% getting canned, but there’s a good chance it may ! 

 

Gas Gas produces/sells just around 5000 trials bikes a year. 

Beagle wrote:
Sounds about right, from PMG 2023 report, 29 532 Gasgas motorcycles were sold, of which 5 500 were made in Spain.Assuming only trial bikes are made...

Sounds about right, from PMG 2023 report, 29 532 Gasgas motorcycles were sold, of which 5 500 were made in Spain.

Assuming only trial bikes are made in Spain, trials would be a very significant 19% of Gasgas sales! That's a very distinct and successful lineup of motorcycles made in a state of the art factory physically independent from Mattighofen.

Yes, only trials bikes are manufactured by Gas Gas in Spain.

1
tek14
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Vantaa, FI
12/26/2024 12:22am

Get ready for some hellacious deals. 

MxAddic wrote:
I am not so sure. The bigger the rebate, the more they lose.The dealer is not going to sell you the bike for $5K when they...

I am not so sure. The bigger the rebate, the more they lose.

The dealer is not going to sell you the bike for $5K when they paid $8K if the company fails.

Maybe you are eyeballing the ones at the factory? Do you think the first thing the new owner will do is blow them out? You are going to wait a long time on those.

Asking price is 14000e so if they paid 8k i could see 9k deal pretty good but they are still asking 12-13.

yz133rider
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12/26/2024 2:00am
I wonder what Triumph and Ducati Corporate are thinking....I believe they saw a prosperous market and thought we can get $10 - 14K for making a...

I wonder what Triumph and Ducati Corporate are thinking....I believe they saw a prosperous market and thought we can get $10 - 14K for making a dirt bike ok we are in! Now what? KTM bikes will possibly be marked way down and I think Triumph and Ducati will have to be competitive in pricing, could kill them since they are new to the market. I think the Japanese brands can withstand price drops since they have been around a long time.

I thought that same thing for triumph and Ducati also.

1

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