Championships won by the "wrong" rider

ATKpilot99
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5/17/2023 7:43am
cable wrote:

Emig 125 title.   Larocco had a 40pt lead with two rounds to go.  Shifter? Broke or fell off.  

Emigs 96 outdoor title? If MC didn’t get hurt at Spring Creek would Emig still be champ* ? 

Probably not . But the the last race at Steel City was a winner take all scenario an McGrath was healthy as he had won Binghamton.  Emig straight up took it so that makes it a little better though I have always been a fan of Emig so my opinion may be a bit biased . Smile

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Park Boys
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5/17/2023 8:40am
cable wrote:

Emig 125 title.   Larocco had a 40pt lead with two rounds to go.  Shifter? Broke or fell off.  

Emigs 96 outdoor title? If MC didn’t get hurt at Spring Creek would Emig still be champ* ? 

ATKpilot99 wrote:
Probably not . But the the last race at Steel City was a winner take all scenario an McGrath was healthy as he had won Binghamton. ...

Probably not . But the the last race at Steel City was a winner take all scenario an McGrath was healthy as he had won Binghamton.  Emig straight up took it so that makes it a little better though I have always been a fan of Emig so my opinion may be a bit biased . Smile

People always bring up 92 and 96 with Emig, but in 93 and 98 Emig had some bad luck himself. He was the fastest but did not win those titles. 

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5/17/2023 10:10am
jambalaya wrote:

Pourcel Dungey 2009 MX. Pourcel was just better 

Didn't he lose an outdoor title to Canard because of a dnf or something too?

Flatliner
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5/17/2023 1:20pm
jambalaya wrote:

Pourcel Dungey 2009 MX. Pourcel was just better 

Didn't he lose an outdoor title to Canard because of a dnf or something too?

seized engine, yep.

The Shop

Flatliner
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5/17/2023 1:21pm
Mit12 wrote:
This talk is because people choosing to think with emotion over reality. There is a point system in place that covers every race and the one...

This talk is because people choosing to think with emotion over reality. There is a point system in place that covers every race and the one with the most points in the series wins. In this case Chase was the fastest rider and Tomac was the rider that capitalized on Chases early season mistakes until Tomac got injured. Dungey did the same thing to Tomac all those years capitalized on Tomacs inconsistency and won 3 championships over Tomac. David Bailey won the SX championship in 83 after Hannah got hurt and Barnetts bike broke down in the simi and missed the main. Chase earned this championship straight up.

sorry dude, the only year dungey backed into his title was in 17'.

 

in 15-16, he had the most wins, and podiums, was clearly the best guy.

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jambalaya
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5/17/2023 2:55pm
jambalaya wrote:

Pourcel Dungey 2009 MX. Pourcel was just better 

Didn't he lose an outdoor title to Canard because of a dnf or something too?

Canard actually came on strong and Pourcel crashed and hurt himself at the last race 

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5/17/2023 2:59pm
cable wrote:

Emig 125 title.   Larocco had a 40pt lead with two rounds to go.  Shifter? Broke or fell off.  

Shifter fell off in one moto and the carb in another if I remember correctly, and his dad was the mechanic! Budds Creek I think. 

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5/17/2023 3:00pm
Juck wrote:
Dungey 2017 SX. Everyone talks about Tomac choking in East Rutherford but everyone seems to forget that wouldn't have mattered at all if he didn't have...

Dungey 2017 SX. Everyone talks about Tomac choking in East Rutherford but everyone seems to forget that wouldn't have mattered at all if he didn't have the mechanical in Arlington(?)

Tomac was undoubtedly the better guy that season

Nope. Tomac lost that one straight up. The mechanical in Arlington was caused by him getting bad starts and riding sketchy. He may have been the...

Nope. Tomac lost that one straight up. The mechanical in Arlington was caused by him getting bad starts and riding sketchy. He may have been the faster rider that year, but Dungey was the better rider. 

No it wasn't. He started top 5 in the main at Arlington and easily had the others covered, then his front brake locked up which caused him to crash. Pure mechanical that cost him likely 19 points, and he lost the title in the end by 5 (although if he wasn't trying to bunch up Dungey at Vegas he easily could have run in a 1st place for an extra 3 points).

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deanwhite51
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5/17/2023 5:38pm

RC4 06 SX title... 

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5/17/2023 5:45pm Edited Date/Time 5/17/2023 5:46pm

Osbourne over Satvatgy comes to mind, Osbourne ended Joeys career with that move.

Yeah I don't see it.  You can't put on that kind of ride from last, and then when getting in striking distance of that title, just...

Yeah I don't see it. 

You can't put on that kind of ride from last, and then when getting in striking distance of that title, just letting him rail that berm and go on to win. That was damn good racing. 

 

I also wouldn't say Joey's career was ended either lol 

I don't understand why circumstances of Osbourne coming through the pack and punting Joey is ok but it's not ok when it happens in any other main event, if that was Deegan people will call for his head which has already happened in Deegans career with a lot less of a crime.

I don't mean Osbourne ended Joeys career through injury but it sure as hell got to his head mentality and hasn't been the same since, yes it's on him to get over the mental battles however Osbournes pass sparked it.

Why do the goalposts change when it comes to taking someone out at certain points in the season, not trying to be a asshole I just want more understanding, I've seen a lot less get docked in this sport.

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5/17/2023 6:03pm Edited Date/Time 5/17/2023 6:03pm
Cortami79 wrote:
First of all, champions are made with showing up and overcoming issues as well. Chase did the same this year so he is a worthy champion...

First of all, champions are made with showing up and overcoming issues as well. Chase did the same this year so he is a worthy champion in my opinion. 

2014 east comes to mind for me. AC won a few of the first races in his rookie year. Then we had his injuries which put him out of the title hunt. Then Bagget and Davalos had their share of injuries, which resulted in Bogle winning the championship. You have to take note though that Bogle had an almost-career ending injury in the pre-season. Broken back, neck and some other scary stuff. He barely made it to the season opener for the East coast rounds and still made it as a champ, which is remarkable. So even though AC and the other PC guys were winning, their injuries put them out and Bogle showed up when he had to. I think Musquin was injured that season as well. 

I'm pretty sure Davalos was going into the final round as the points leader and had a bike malfunction mid-week which resulted in a broken leg which handed Bogle the title.

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5/17/2023 6:06pm Edited Date/Time 5/17/2023 6:07pm
CPR wrote:
Stew’s choice to not race outdoors, so that doesn’t even enter the conversation. Reed hadn’t raced outdoors himself for a few years, came back in 09...

Stew’s choice to not race outdoors, so that doesn’t even enter the conversation.

Reed hadn’t raced outdoors himself for a few years, came back in 09 without any prep and was still the fastest qualifier at the first round with RV and Alessi there, he just wasn’t fit. But he was on the podium by the second round, and went 1-1 by the fourth. Went on to win by that much that he got on the piss with the crowd at the track on the eve of the last round and was so hungover he pulled out of the last race to spew!

How is that luck or being the ‘wrong’ guy? Add in that he cleaned up the first round of Outdoors in 2010 before getting sick, as well as cleaning up prime RV and Dunge in 2011 before the Chadapult, and there’s no doubt he had championship level speed in those years.

So you’re either fishing or just don’t like him.

Reed was getting smoked by Alessi and they both got smoked by RV first round. I never say any championship winner isn't deserving. But let's not pretend he had anything for either of them. 2011 Reed was a total different animal. Like a completely different guy than the 2009 version

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RCMartin406
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5/17/2023 6:19pm

RC4 06 SX title... 

😲 you referring to fuelgate? RC threatened to take his ball and go home 😂 or RC winning the AMA title and JS the World title? 

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deanwhite51
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5/17/2023 6:51pm

RC4 06 SX title... 

😲 you referring to fuelgate? RC threatened to take his ball and go home 😂 or RC winning the AMA title and JS the World title? 

yepp fuel gate... JS and CR both got docked points for the same thing.. RC4 got caught and he had a sook..

 

side note.. im a huge RC4 fan. but that was a stitch up

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CPR
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5/18/2023 4:48am
CPR wrote:
Stew’s choice to not race outdoors, so that doesn’t even enter the conversation. Reed hadn’t raced outdoors himself for a few years, came back in 09...

Stew’s choice to not race outdoors, so that doesn’t even enter the conversation.

Reed hadn’t raced outdoors himself for a few years, came back in 09 without any prep and was still the fastest qualifier at the first round with RV and Alessi there, he just wasn’t fit. But he was on the podium by the second round, and went 1-1 by the fourth. Went on to win by that much that he got on the piss with the crowd at the track on the eve of the last round and was so hungover he pulled out of the last race to spew!

How is that luck or being the ‘wrong’ guy? Add in that he cleaned up the first round of Outdoors in 2010 before getting sick, as well as cleaning up prime RV and Dunge in 2011 before the Chadapult, and there’s no doubt he had championship level speed in those years.

So you’re either fishing or just don’t like him.

Reed was getting smoked by Alessi and they both got smoked by RV first round. I never say any championship winner isn't deserving. But let's not...

Reed was getting smoked by Alessi and they both got smoked by RV first round. I never say any championship winner isn't deserving. But let's not pretend he had anything for either of them. 2011 Reed was a total different animal. Like a completely different guy than the 2009 version

Got smoked? Didn’t have anything for either of them? 😂

I wonder why they run more than two rounds if that’s all that’s needed to decide who’s going be the best and win……🤔

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CPR
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5/18/2023 4:50am

RC4 06 SX title... 

😲 you referring to fuelgate? RC threatened to take his ball and go home 😂 or RC winning the AMA title and JS the World title? 

yepp fuel gate... JS and CR both got docked points for the same thing.. RC4 got caught and he had a sook..   side note.. im...

yepp fuel gate... JS and CR both got docked points for the same thing.. RC4 got caught and he had a sook..

 

side note.. im a huge RC4 fan. but that was a stitch up

I hadn’t thought about 06 SX in this scenario, but while RC will always be the GOAT to me, fuel gate was farcical.

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5/18/2023 2:53pm Edited Date/Time 5/18/2023 2:54pm

Emigs 96 outdoor title? If MC didn’t get hurt at Spring Creek would Emig still be champ* ? 

That brings back memories.  It was the corner right before the sand whoops and MC tried to use the single to jump onto the tabletop.  He came up way short.  I was standing right there.  He wacked it so hard you could feel the ground go thud.  Anyway I like telling that story and I don't think Emig would have won the title that year if MC didn't get hurt.

 

alex69
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5/18/2023 3:42pm

there is only one candidate for this. And that is Pierre Karsmakers in 19743 or 1974

unofficially he won the ama outdoor titles on points. But due to a rule change in 1973 only an can american citizen win the title.

 

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deanwhite51
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5/18/2023 4:57pm

😲 you referring to fuelgate? RC threatened to take his ball and go home 😂 or RC winning the AMA title and JS the World title? 

yepp fuel gate... JS and CR both got docked points for the same thing.. RC4 got caught and he had a sook..   side note.. im...

yepp fuel gate... JS and CR both got docked points for the same thing.. RC4 got caught and he had a sook..

 

side note.. im a huge RC4 fan. but that was a stitch up

CPR wrote:

I hadn’t thought about 06 SX in this scenario, but while RC will always be the GOAT to me, fuel gate was farcical.

i think about how the sport and history would be all changed if RC4 was actually docked the points. wonder how that all stacks up. Imagine if Rc4 was docked and didnt win that title. wonder how it would play for Stew and Reed if one was to win that title.

 

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Johnny Ringo
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5/18/2023 6:09pm Edited Date/Time 5/18/2023 6:09pm

GL in 03, only won one moto I believe.

Ryno raced southwick with a broken leg and missed Budds.

 

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MN361
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5/18/2023 7:44pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
First let me say I think Chase Sexton is a worthy champion . I don't believe in asterisk titles which is why I put wrong in...

First let me say I think Chase Sexton is a worthy champion . I don't believe in asterisk titles which is why I put wrong in quotes .  But it made me think of a few other MX titles , two involving Grant Langston , and the other a World title involving Steve Ramon .

Langston won the 2003 AMA 125 national title winning just one moto . James Stewart had a broken collar bone and didn't enter the series till round 5 at Budds Creek . He proceeded to win all the remaining motos with Langston and Hughes battling for the title behind him . Also the last round was cancelled due to the Troy Ohio track being flooded . Langston won the title by 7 points over Hughes with Stewart getting third 30 points back .

Langston also won the 2007 450 AMA title . That was the year RC raced the first 5 rounds winning them all then retiring . In fact he and Stewart finished 1-2 in those rounds then a few rounds later Stewart injured his knee at Washougal and was out of the series . Langston rose to the occasion and won the title . 

Also in 2007 Steve Ramon won the then MX1 title winning 2 motos . Josh Coppins was well on his way to the title but was out injured with 5 rounds remaining . 

Point is these guys worked just as hard and put everything on the line to be the guy to win in the end and should be proud of their achievements .  Just a little bench racing fun . 

As far as this year goes, I’d say your flat out wrong, chase had many victory’s and had fastest lap times often as well, would he of won had Eli not gotten  hurt doubtful, would he of win still had he pulled off  after one of his crashes and gave up maybe not, fact is he didn’t get hurt won many times and earned it. There has never been a wrong champion ever, it’s always been earned. 

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Hank_Thrill
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5/19/2023 9:51pm

RC4 06 SX title... 

RC DNF’d a round due to a broken shock spring and still won the title.
 

And crashed into a boat! 

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joshd
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5/19/2023 10:28pm
Juck wrote:
Dungey 2017 SX. Everyone talks about Tomac choking in East Rutherford but everyone seems to forget that wouldn't have mattered at all if he didn't have...

Dungey 2017 SX. Everyone talks about Tomac choking in East Rutherford but everyone seems to forget that wouldn't have mattered at all if he didn't have the mechanical in Arlington(?)

Tomac was undoubtedly the better guy that season

Nope. Tomac lost that one straight up. The mechanical in Arlington was caused by him getting bad starts and riding sketchy. He may have been the...

Nope. Tomac lost that one straight up. The mechanical in Arlington was caused by him getting bad starts and riding sketchy. He may have been the faster rider that year, but Dungey was the better rider. 

Dungey also got some help from team mates that year. To me Tomac was the better rider that year, just like Dungey was in 11. I also seem to remember a penalty in 17 sx for someone, anyone remember who?

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5/20/2023 7:56pm

Osbourne over Satvatgy comes to mind, Osbourne ended Joeys career with that move.

Bruh, are you a crack smoker? Osbourne’s championship win exemplifies everything there is to love about this sport. 

5/21/2023 1:02am
kage173 wrote:
I remember watching Sexton win his 250 championship and being positive that Forkner "deserved" it and was the better rider. 5 years later(?). Sexton has 2...

I remember watching Sexton win his 250 championship and being positive that Forkner "deserved" it and was the better rider.

5 years later(?). Sexton has 2 250 SX titles, a MXDN, and a 450 SX championship, and Forkner is still hurt in the 250 class.

There are no wrong champions in Moto

Man, I watched that season through the exact opposite lens.

He was fast as hell, but the entire season Forkner was having really huge dramatic crashes, especially in qualifying, and I was genuinely a bit amazed that he had dodged a serious injury going into the last few rounds.

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HRA
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5/21/2023 2:29am Edited Date/Time 5/21/2023 2:29am

Osbourne over Satvatgy comes to mind, Osbourne ended Joeys career with that move.

Yeah I don't see it.  You can't put on that kind of ride from last, and then when getting in striking distance of that title, just...

Yeah I don't see it. 

You can't put on that kind of ride from last, and then when getting in striking distance of that title, just letting him rail that berm and go on to win. That was damn good racing. 

 

I also wouldn't say Joey's career was ended either lol 

I don't understand why circumstances of Osbourne coming through the pack and punting Joey is ok but it's not ok when it happens in any other...

I don't understand why circumstances of Osbourne coming through the pack and punting Joey is ok but it's not ok when it happens in any other main event, if that was Deegan people will call for his head which has already happened in Deegans career with a lot less of a crime.

I don't mean Osbourne ended Joeys career through injury but it sure as hell got to his head mentality and hasn't been the same since, yes it's on him to get over the mental battles however Osbournes pass sparked it.

Why do the goalposts change when it comes to taking someone out at certain points in the season, not trying to be a asshole I just want more understanding, I've seen a lot less get docked in this sport.

The circumstances shouldn’t change the goal posts but they did.  

dingaling
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5/21/2023 3:30am

Can't remember the year? Maybe 2012? Dungeys first outdoor title on the KTM? RV out injured? JS wins the first 4 motos. Then crashes and gets injured while in the lead when a photographer(?) runs across the track in front of him. Dung goes on to win every round. Then Redbull releases a YouTube series with Dungey saying it all clicked around that time and thats why he's started winning. But hey, you got be in it to win it

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aledei
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5/21/2023 11:04am
TDeath21 wrote:
I remember reading about this, but I can’t recall the year or the riders. Some of you guys who have been around awhile will have to...

I remember reading about this, but I can’t recall the year or the riders. Some of you guys who have been around awhile will have to help me out. It was GPs I think? In the last round, Russia(?) lined up a ton of riders whose sole goal was to take the rider out who was close to their countryman in points. They succeeded and their guy was the champion. I’d say that’s about the closest thing you can get to a stolen or undeserved champion.

If anyone can recall the year and riders, and has an article to link, I’d love to read about it again!

Maybe you mean Kiedrowski knocking down JMB so Stanton could win the championship? 
Or Stanton going to Japan and giving Mike Healy a T-bone to make Trampas Parker (Honda...) win The championship, history is full. 

But not this time! Please understand that! This time Chase won and earned the championship! 

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5/21/2023 7:47pm

Osbourne over Satvatgy comes to mind, Osbourne ended Joeys career with that move.

Bruh, are you a crack smoker? Osbourne’s championship win exemplifies everything there is to love about this sport. 

" exemplifies everything there is to love about this sport."

Bullshit, Deegan rubbing his team mate triggered the shit out of a lot of people.

Ferrandis there was an outrage when he made that mistake on Craig.

Barcia/Frieze how many times?

That's my point why does a situation or points different or championship dictate or change definition on what's deemed a take out, a take out on the last race of the year last corner for the championship is no different to taking someone out mid season but both are treated differently.

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