2023 KTM 300SX

Markee
Posts
3658
Joined
4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA US
5/11/2022 7:20am
#434 wrote:
How is a modern 2T (even one with a carburator) much simpler than a 4T. I'm always puzzeled where that myth comes from. The SX250 engine...
How is a modern 2T (even one with a carburator) much simpler than a 4T. I'm always puzzeled where that myth comes from.
The SX250 engine has about the same number of parts than the 450 engine. And how is doing a top end more complicated on a 4T? Because of the cam chain?
When I took apart the power valve and its mechanical actuator of my 2017 SX125 the first thing that came to my mind was: Damn, that's a lot of moving parts, the valve train of my YZ250f doesn't look half as complicated.

But back to topic: I think it really cool that KTM went for it and produced a SX300! I'm really curious on how it's going to run. Not only because of TBI, but also because of the electric power valve.
Markee wrote:
Well obviously the valve train moves with the engine cycle on a 4 stroke and the power valve moves with RPM on a 2 stroke. Big...
Well obviously the valve train moves with the engine cycle on a 4 stroke and the power valve moves with RPM on a 2 stroke. Big difference.

If the moving parts on a 4 stroke valve train fail vs a power valve, what happens? Big difference.

But the fair comparison to a 4 stroke's valve train is a 2 strokes reed cage. BIG difference. The complexity difference between the two is no myth.
#434 wrote:
Thanks for laughs! Made a BIG Difference to my lunch. I asked why everybody’s saying that a 2T MX engine is simpler than a 4T. Not...
Thanks for laughs! Made a BIG Difference to my lunch.
I asked why everybody’s saying that a 2T MX engine is simpler than a 4T. Not what happens when something breaks.
Everybody’s just downvoting..
Lets use some pictures. Head and intake components Grinning (forgot the timing chain and cam)

4 stroke:




2 stroke:



7
1
PJRAUS
Posts
1531
Joined
5/28/2016
Location
AU
5/11/2022 7:36am
Legitimate question. i know they’ll sell every one of these that they import, but who is the customer for this bike? If I’m spending nearly 12...
Legitimate question.
i know they’ll sell every one of these that they import, but who is the customer for this bike? If I’m spending nearly 12 grand on a motocross bike, I expect the bike to make it easier for me to win races. I have a hard time believing that a big bore 2 stroke will make that happen if I’m lining up against 450cc 4 strokes. I race the biggest motocross series in the Midwest (865 entries at the last round), and I can’t tell you the last time I lined up next to a two stroke in the +30 and +40 classes (what I would expect to be the prime demographic for this bike). Is this just a side piece bike for old rich guys?
PJRAUS wrote:
Well..yeah...it probably is gonna be a bike for rich old guys. But in reality...when it comes to racing vet classes, what difference does the bike even...
Well..yeah...it probably is gonna be a bike for rich old guys.
But in reality...when it comes to racing vet classes, what difference does the bike even make? Its about what the rider likes and rides the best. Any vet race can be won by a vet racer on a 125, as long as he can keep that 125 running at the bikes maximum potential...
In fact...any race could be won by a rider on a 125 that can ride it to its absolute max potential...Johhny O' Mara gave some heavy hitters a lesson in this in 1986...
It's about the rider....a fast vet on a 300 two stroke is not going to be at any disadvantage against others on 450's...
I would wager that you could put either of the Lawrence brothers on a bone stock new 125, up against a gate full of vet pros on 450's...and they would most likely get the holeshot, if not, be leading by corner 2...its about the rider
I’m not saying that a better rider wouldn’t beat me on an inferior bike. I just don’t understand who wants to spend nearly $12,000 to put...
I’m not saying that a better rider wouldn’t beat me on an inferior bike. I just don’t understand who wants to spend nearly $12,000 to put themselves at a disadvantage. I thought I might be missing something. I know 300cc two strokes are wildly popular for woods racers, but this is a motocross race bike.
Well I'm pretty sure that no vet racer that buys this bike will do so thinking that the bike is going to put him at a disadvantage ,quite the opposite..those that buy it will be thinking its going to be Goldielocks' perfect porridge...the bike that is just right,the one they can go faster on.
We all like to have the fastest bike,best suspension..whatever...yeah and for certain that is going to help an individual achieve better results...but the reality is more simple...
A question...transplant Eli Tomac into the Australian national mx championship, riding a bone stock yz 450 f against Australia's best on their best set up race bikes? Who do you think is gonna win? The bike is important, but with such a gap in abilities...the best rider is going to win...put Eli on a bone stock yz 250 2 stroke in that same class.. would anyone still bet against him....put him on a 125...definitely more interesting..but my money would still be on Eli..
Vet racing is no different, the best rider will win no matter what the cubic capacity of his bike if his ability to ride is more than his competitors



7
GrapeApe
Posts
8712
Joined
6/7/2010
Location
Mc Kinney, TX US
5/11/2022 7:38am Edited Date/Time 5/11/2022 7:39am
Legitimate question. i know they’ll sell every one of these that they import, but who is the customer for this bike? If I’m spending nearly 12...
Legitimate question.
i know they’ll sell every one of these that they import, but who is the customer for this bike? If I’m spending nearly 12 grand on a motocross bike, I expect the bike to make it easier for me to win races. I have a hard time believing that a big bore 2 stroke will make that happen if I’m lining up against 450cc 4 strokes. I race the biggest motocross series in the Midwest (865 entries at the last round), and I can’t tell you the last time I lined up next to a two stroke in the +30 and +40 classes (what I would expect to be the prime demographic for this bike). Is this just a side piece bike for old rich guys?
I agree if I was still strictly racing motocross and chasing contingency a 450 would be my bike of choice. As I get older I'm doing more trail/GP style riding, and I really don't like my 450 in the woods. I also like riding 2 strokes, but at 6'4" (fight me Cooksey) 215# I always seemed to be looking for more bottom end out of my 250 2 strokes on the track. And I hate 500 2 strokes, particularly in an aluminum 4 stroke frame. So I'm hoping the 300 is not a side piece but a primary bike that is plenty competitive on the track and much better than what I have in other disciplines. Big 2 stroke with a map switch and a modern chassis sounds pretty awesome, and if it's not I'll happily go back to a 450.
2
Crush
Posts
21077
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
5/11/2022 7:48am
The 300sx motor is so good. If you haven't ridden one you'll love it!

The Shop

spimx
Posts
1296
Joined
3/25/2019
Location
Port Isabel, TX US
5/11/2022 8:01am
If I'm not as fast on this as my 450 I will not care at all. As long as it's fun and cool, which I think it will be. No valves to service is a bonus and no jetting, 219 lbs 👍
9
urbanlift707
Posts
1131
Joined
9/27/2006
Location
Humboldt, CA US
5/11/2022 8:01am
Legitimate question. i know they’ll sell every one of these that they import, but who is the customer for this bike? If I’m spending nearly 12...
Legitimate question.
i know they’ll sell every one of these that they import, but who is the customer for this bike? If I’m spending nearly 12 grand on a motocross bike, I expect the bike to make it easier for me to win races. I have a hard time believing that a big bore 2 stroke will make that happen if I’m lining up against 450cc 4 strokes. I race the biggest motocross series in the Midwest (865 entries at the last round), and I can’t tell you the last time I lined up next to a two stroke in the +30 and +40 classes (what I would expect to be the prime demographic for this bike). Is this just a side piece bike for old rich guys?
Some people like myself ride and race a two stroke much better that an 450 or 250f. I stopped racing 450’s and would choose my two stroke cause at the end of my motos I could ride it harder vs be a passenger on the 450. I’m faster on the first lap and the last lap on my 300sx, so yes we’re buying this bike as the best race weapon available to us. Here’s a start in vet 30 at mammoth against 35 450’s at 8,000+ ft. It’s all about the rider! Although I did pump up at the end and drop to 2nd!

https://youtu.be/rPGXiWVXk1o
27
Broseph
Posts
1187
Joined
4/28/2018
Location
Stevenson, WA US
5/11/2022 8:02am
loftyair wrote:
Is this bike a real 300? Not just a 'bored" 250?
Yeah. It has it’s own unique 72mm cylinder and head with ports and geometry optimized for the 72mm bore. It’s as real as a 300 has ever been.
7
#434
Posts
1913
Joined
3/23/2017
Location
DE
5/11/2022 8:46am
Markee wrote:
Lets use some pictures. Head and intake components :lol: (forgot the timing chain and cam) 4 stroke: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/549378/s1200_4T1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/549379/s1200_4T2.jpg[/img] 2 stroke: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/549380/s1200_2t1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/549381/s1200_2t2.jpg[/img]
Lets use some pictures. Head and intake components Grinning (forgot the timing chain and cam)

4 stroke:




2 stroke:



Thanks for supporting my argument, but I think you accidently forgot to show the 2T counterpart of the exhaust side of the 4T. No worries, here are all the parts of the power valve, more than 50 btw.




4
4
Mr. Info
Posts
1671
Joined
5/3/2010
Location
Perris, CA US
5/11/2022 9:06am
I did not say a bird said all the new Husky models will have the same height as the KTM I said the bird said the 300 will not and thats all. I know the 450 and the 350 have the lowered height from what the birdy said but again the birdy can't fly so anything he told me we have to just wait and see. But remember I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
1
5
soggy
Posts
8423
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
UT US
5/11/2022 9:20am
Legitimate question. i know they’ll sell every one of these that they import, but who is the customer for this bike? If I’m spending nearly 12...
Legitimate question.
i know they’ll sell every one of these that they import, but who is the customer for this bike? If I’m spending nearly 12 grand on a motocross bike, I expect the bike to make it easier for me to win races. I have a hard time believing that a big bore 2 stroke will make that happen if I’m lining up against 450cc 4 strokes. I race the biggest motocross series in the Midwest (865 entries at the last round), and I can’t tell you the last time I lined up next to a two stroke in the +30 and +40 classes (what I would expect to be the prime demographic for this bike). Is this just a side piece bike for old rich guys?
PJRAUS wrote:
Well..yeah...it probably is gonna be a bike for rich old guys. But in reality...when it comes to racing vet classes, what difference does the bike even...
Well..yeah...it probably is gonna be a bike for rich old guys.
But in reality...when it comes to racing vet classes, what difference does the bike even make? Its about what the rider likes and rides the best. Any vet race can be won by a vet racer on a 125, as long as he can keep that 125 running at the bikes maximum potential...
In fact...any race could be won by a rider on a 125 that can ride it to its absolute max potential...Johhny O' Mara gave some heavy hitters a lesson in this in 1986...
It's about the rider....a fast vet on a 300 two stroke is not going to be at any disadvantage against others on 450's...
I would wager that you could put either of the Lawrence brothers on a bone stock new 125, up against a gate full of vet pros on 450's...and they would most likely get the holeshot, if not, be leading by corner 2...its about the rider
I’m not saying that a better rider wouldn’t beat me on an inferior bike. I just don’t understand who wants to spend nearly $12,000 to put...
I’m not saying that a better rider wouldn’t beat me on an inferior bike. I just don’t understand who wants to spend nearly $12,000 to put themselves at a disadvantage. I thought I might be missing something. I know 300cc two strokes are wildly popular for woods racers, but this is a motocross race bike.
Most guys don’t race bro
6
FGR01
Posts
5993
Joined
10/1/2006
Location
AZ US
Fantasy
5/11/2022 9:22am
spimx wrote:
I'm definitely getting one. Stark Varge would be nice so I can ride in my neighborhood buy this thing is too nice! Who is in on...
I'm definitely getting one. Stark Varge would be nice so I can ride in my neighborhood buy this thing is too nice! Who is in on this bike?
I'm not a big fan of batteries but I would rather mess with a battery than adjust/replace valves or a timing chain. I dont know how difficult an electronic power valve would be but I think the advantage will be 219 lbs in with efi and electronic power valve power adjustability on hard pack and poor traction riding.




PJRAUS wrote:
Yep...they got me, placed my order today....this bike gives me a chubby! Funny you should mention the varg...my order is in , the money saved and...
Yep...they got me, placed my order today....this bike gives me a chubby!
Funny you should mention the varg...my order is in , the money saved and tucked away...that bike will be a game changer for me..absolutely cannot wait!
This 300 sx also floats my boat..my 450 will b up for sale this weekend and my old 125 soon after..
Im typically not one to jump into a radically new bike like this KTM, but the hour glass of time stops for nobody! Im all about living for today these days...so Im all in for this bike. Cant wait for this one also!
bents wrote:
Dude, I like your style and philosophy. Time waits for no one. I too am waiting for a Stark. Oct 9 for me so they say...
Dude,

I like your style and philosophy. Time waits for no one. I too am waiting for a Stark. Oct 9 for me so they say. I'm waiting for the Husky version of this 300 to come out and I will be one of the disappointing customers if they ditch the lowered suspension. I have a 2021 Husky 450 and the lowered suspension makes a huge different to someone of RC's height.
If the 23 Huskies are "full height" like the 23 KTM's, I don't think it will be that hard to lower them. The 21-22 Husky forks will bolt right up. On the back end, all the shortness is in the linkage. So, either bolt up the 21-22 Husky linkage, or, if that doesn't fit, put a 6mm spacer plate in the shock to shorten it.
5/11/2022 9:34am
Markee wrote:
Lets use some pictures. Head and intake components :lol: (forgot the timing chain and cam) 4 stroke: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/549378/s1200_4T1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/549379/s1200_4T2.jpg[/img] 2 stroke: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/549380/s1200_2t1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/549381/s1200_2t2.jpg[/img]
Lets use some pictures. Head and intake components Grinning (forgot the timing chain and cam)

4 stroke:




2 stroke:



#434 wrote:
Thanks for supporting my argument, but I think you accidently forgot to show the 2T counterpart of the exhaust side of the 4T. No worries, here...
Thanks for supporting my argument, but I think you accidently forgot to show the 2T counterpart of the exhaust side of the 4T. No worries, here are all the parts of the power valve, more than 50 btw.




Yea try again 2t power valve should last life of the engine. Same can't be said for a 450 valve train. And if the 2t power valve breaks still much less than a 4t if it drops a valve or needs replacing.

How many times I've seen posted got about 80 hours almost time for a valve job. Time to sell it and get a new one justified by the costs as much to take the trade in hit on a 1 to 3 year old bike.
4
1
5/11/2022 9:39am
PJRAUS wrote:
Yep...they got me, placed my order today....this bike gives me a chubby! Funny you should mention the varg...my order is in , the money saved and...
Yep...they got me, placed my order today....this bike gives me a chubby!
Funny you should mention the varg...my order is in , the money saved and tucked away...that bike will be a game changer for me..absolutely cannot wait!
This 300 sx also floats my boat..my 450 will b up for sale this weekend and my old 125 soon after..
Im typically not one to jump into a radically new bike like this KTM, but the hour glass of time stops for nobody! Im all about living for today these days...so Im all in for this bike. Cant wait for this one also!
bents wrote:
Dude, I like your style and philosophy. Time waits for no one. I too am waiting for a Stark. Oct 9 for me so they say...
Dude,

I like your style and philosophy. Time waits for no one. I too am waiting for a Stark. Oct 9 for me so they say. I'm waiting for the Husky version of this 300 to come out and I will be one of the disappointing customers if they ditch the lowered suspension. I have a 2021 Husky 450 and the lowered suspension makes a huge different to someone of RC's height.
FGR01 wrote:
If the 23 Huskies are "full height" like the 23 KTM's, I don't think it will be that hard to lower them. The 21-22 Husky forks...
If the 23 Huskies are "full height" like the 23 KTM's, I don't think it will be that hard to lower them. The 21-22 Husky forks will bolt right up. On the back end, all the shortness is in the linkage. So, either bolt up the 21-22 Husky linkage, or, if that doesn't fit, put a 6mm spacer plate in the shock to shorten it.
Good to know thanks-and I just got an update on the delivery of my Stark-went from Oct 9/22 to August...2023!!
1
1
#434
Posts
1913
Joined
3/23/2017
Location
DE
5/11/2022 9:45am
Markee wrote:
Lets use some pictures. Head and intake components :lol: (forgot the timing chain and cam) 4 stroke: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/549378/s1200_4T1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/549379/s1200_4T2.jpg[/img] 2 stroke: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/549380/s1200_2t1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/549381/s1200_2t2.jpg[/img]
Lets use some pictures. Head and intake components Grinning (forgot the timing chain and cam)

4 stroke:




2 stroke:



#434 wrote:
Thanks for supporting my argument, but I think you accidently forgot to show the 2T counterpart of the exhaust side of the 4T. No worries, here...
Thanks for supporting my argument, but I think you accidently forgot to show the 2T counterpart of the exhaust side of the 4T. No worries, here are all the parts of the power valve, more than 50 btw.




Yea try again 2t power valve should last life of the engine. Same can't be said for a 450 valve train. And if the 2t power...
Yea try again 2t power valve should last life of the engine. Same can't be said for a 450 valve train. And if the 2t power valve breaks still much less than a 4t if it drops a valve or needs replacing.

How many times I've seen posted got about 80 hours almost time for a valve job. Time to sell it and get a new one justified by the costs as much to take the trade in hit on a 1 to 3 year old bike.
Yawn… I only said that a 2T isn’t less complicated than 4T.
1
10
5/11/2022 10:03am
bents wrote:
Good to know thanks-and I just got an update on the delivery of my Stark-went from Oct 9/22 to August...2023!!
So much for the 1-3 months in the email I got yesterday …

5/11/2022 10:08am
Langhammx,

I thought the same thing! 1-3 months is a lot longer than 10 months. I'm no real rush. When it gets here it gets here unless Michael Lindsay and JT et al travel to Europe and tells us it sucks balls then I lose 100.00. Every time I go to a Canadian Tire in Canada I lose 100.00 buying shit I don't need, so....
3
catatonic
Posts
1575
Joined
3/20/2008
Location
Cape cod, MA US
5/11/2022 10:43am
Legitimate question. i know they’ll sell every one of these that they import, but who is the customer for this bike? If I’m spending nearly 12...
Legitimate question.
i know they’ll sell every one of these that they import, but who is the customer for this bike? If I’m spending nearly 12 grand on a motocross bike, I expect the bike to make it easier for me to win races. I have a hard time believing that a big bore 2 stroke will make that happen if I’m lining up against 450cc 4 strokes. I race the biggest motocross series in the Midwest (865 entries at the last round), and I can’t tell you the last time I lined up next to a two stroke in the +30 and +40 classes (what I would expect to be the prime demographic for this bike). Is this just a side piece bike for old rich guys?
Some people like myself ride and race a two stroke much better that an 450 or 250f. I stopped racing 450’s and would choose my two...
Some people like myself ride and race a two stroke much better that an 450 or 250f. I stopped racing 450’s and would choose my two stroke cause at the end of my motos I could ride it harder vs be a passenger on the 450. I’m faster on the first lap and the last lap on my 300sx, so yes we’re buying this bike as the best race weapon available to us. Here’s a start in vet 30 at mammoth against 35 450’s at 8,000+ ft. It’s all about the rider! Although I did pump up at the end and drop to 2nd!

https://youtu.be/rPGXiWVXk1o
So crisp.
917rider
Posts
102
Joined
9/14/2014
Location
Hephzibah, GA US
5/11/2022 11:15am
I put a deposit on one , was quoted 9100
1
5/11/2022 11:16am
I'm curious about extra vibration, decade's ago I put the sxs 300 kit on my 250, I got much midrange and much noticeable vibration.
2
sandman768
Posts
7916
Joined
3/21/2014
Location
Saratoga Springs, NY US
5/11/2022 11:27am
I’m in….
Broseph
Posts
1187
Joined
4/28/2018
Location
Stevenson, WA US
5/11/2022 11:35am
I'm curious about extra vibration, decade's ago I put the sxs 300 kit on my 250, I got much midrange and much noticeable vibration.
New KTM 250s and 300s are even smoother than the 4 strokes. They went above and beyond with their counterbalancer design:


16
ryanxmx31
Posts
88
Joined
2/20/2010
Location
Sturgeon Bay, WI US
5/11/2022 1:15pm
Anyone know when the husqvarnas will be released?
4
Hi Side
Posts
708
Joined
9/19/2013
Location
NC US
5/11/2022 5:37pm
ryanxmx31 wrote:
Anyone know when the husqvarnas will be released?
I need to know too! I'm really hoping for a TC300.
1
5/11/2022 6:18pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2022 6:19pm
ryanxmx31 wrote:
Anyone know when the husqvarnas will be released?
Hi Side wrote:
I need to know too! I'm really hoping for a TC300.
Huskys remain the same, TPI, oil injection, and mechanical power valve.... Carb for the MX model.
7
150ripper
Posts
704
Joined
12/30/2018
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
5/11/2022 7:32pm
Hated the new shroud design when I first saw soy photos without graphics. Now I'm thinking this is the coolest bike I've ever seen. Too damn fast for me, though hah.
1
5/11/2022 9:46pm
150ripper wrote:
Hated the new shroud design when I first saw soy photos without graphics. Now I'm thinking this is the coolest bike I've ever seen. Too damn...
Hated the new shroud design when I first saw soy photos without graphics. Now I'm thinking this is the coolest bike I've ever seen. Too damn fast for me, though hah.
I still don’t like the look of the new KTM’s, but man this 300 has me intrigued
1
1
Hi Side
Posts
708
Joined
9/19/2013
Location
NC US
5/12/2022 3:17am
ryanxmx31 wrote:
Anyone know when the husqvarnas will be released?
Hi Side wrote:
I need to know too! I'm really hoping for a TC300.
Huskys remain the same, TPI, oil injection, and mechanical power valve.... Carb for the MX model.
Well that sucks! Thanks for the info
Spooner
Posts
2422
Joined
1/8/2011
Location
Kansas City, MO US
5/12/2022 3:26am
Huskys remain the same, TPI, oil injection, and mechanical power valve.... Carb for the MX model.
You sure about that? I know gas gas is not changing but haven’t heard that at all on the husky’s.
mingham97
Posts
854
Joined
7/16/2013
Location
AU
5/12/2022 5:28am
This thread was cool until it got to 2 strokes vs 4 strokes. Use them to benefit each other I reckon
- I’d rather put 100 hours on a 2 stroke 300 than on my 250f
- It’ll make your 250f feel slow - improving your confidence (hopefully in proportion to improvements in skill level)
- 50 hours on a 300 will get you fitter than 50 hours on a 250f (cancel the gym membership)
- Because it’s 2023 and a fkn e-start fuel injected 300cc 2 stroke just got released
- If your missus owns your wallet then just explain that a 300SX will instantly “improve moto endurance and intensity”
3
Bruce372
Posts
6329
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
5/12/2022 5:53am
mingham97 wrote:
This thread was cool until it got to 2 strokes vs 4 strokes. Use them to benefit each other I reckon - I’d rather put 100...
This thread was cool until it got to 2 strokes vs 4 strokes. Use them to benefit each other I reckon
- I’d rather put 100 hours on a 2 stroke 300 than on my 250f
- It’ll make your 250f feel slow - improving your confidence (hopefully in proportion to improvements in skill level)
- 50 hours on a 300 will get you fitter than 50 hours on a 250f (cancel the gym membership)
- Because it’s 2023 and a fkn e-start fuel injected 300cc 2 stroke just got released
- If your missus owns your wallet then just explain that a 300SX will instantly “improve moto endurance and intensity”
Isn't it crazy, we have lightweight injected 4 strokes, electric bikes coming, injected smokers with estart, so many options and people hark back to the days of late 90s two strokes witj shitty carbs and oil dripping down the swing arm with brakes that couldn't stop a wet fart and antiquated suspension
11
1

Post a reply to: 2023 KTM 300SX

The Latest