Some Rules Changes in MX

TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 4/30/2020 10:40am
4/30/2020 10:40am
DC wrote:
Good point. Reasonable, fair criticism and opinions are fine anytime, just not the excessive and unreasonable nonsense we saw (and heard and read) from that unfortunate...
Good point. Reasonable, fair criticism and opinions are fine anytime, just not the excessive and unreasonable nonsense we saw (and heard and read) from that unfortunate episode. Almost every professional sport asks that of their athletes and teams, it's no big deal...

Remember "It's a drug ring"? That kind of stuff.

DC
Racer X
lostboy819 wrote:
Yep so you better watch your step because Jeff Alessi will be posting the proof and naming names any day now. Evil
And...then he'll show up on a rule breaking STOCK 250 SX and school the factories while running pump gas and two year old MC-1 made in New Jersey!

I know it's gonna happen. I read about it on the inter-webs-thingy.
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yak651
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yak651 4/30/2020 10:46am
4/30/2020 10:46am
yz133rider wrote:
Nobody would force them to use the 2 strokes. But it would give privateers a choice. And do you think formula 1 cares about the mfg's...
Nobody would force them to use the 2 strokes. But it would give privateers a choice.

And do you think formula 1 cares about the mfg's feelings before a rule change? No. Mfg's have to adapt to the rules given.
queen of spodes wrote:
They are afraid of privateers showing up on a nearly bone stock 250 two stroke and winning against factory 250 four strokes.
That's not going to happen. They might be up on the start but after 15 minutes the factory bikes are going to be ahead. There is no reason they can't go to this rule. DC himself said factories "prefer". Didn't say that factories insist - I highly doubt anyone is going to take their ball and go home if the rule is changed (except maybe Suzuki so they have an excuse)
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FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 4/30/2020 10:50am
4/30/2020 10:50am
Not a big fan of "no criticism" rules because of the chilling effect on constructive criticism. I get that some people are axe-grinding hacks and tin foil kooks who just want to tear things down.

Glad to see some moderation of the PED issues, wasn't clear to me if that means MXS has parted with USADA and is doing it in house.
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 4/30/2020 10:56am
4/30/2020 10:56am
gt80rider wrote:
Gotta love a rule that forces a rider to participate in marketing functions, when they should be focusing on their upcoming race.... Gotta save that cash...
Gotta love a rule that forces a rider to participate in marketing functions, when they should be focusing on their upcoming race.... Gotta save that cash and make the riders do even more crap.... Isn't putting their lives on the line enough?
DC wrote:
It's not what you think, and it has nothing to do with "saving that cash." If you want to come and ride press day, you have...
It's not what you think, and it has nothing to do with "saving that cash." If you want to come and ride press day, you have to show up for the press functions and appointments, like morning talk shows or appearances, and not just show up when it's time to ride. It's damaging to all, the team as well as the series, when a top rider has an appointment with a live local news show and blows it off, because the chances of that station ever coming back and covering the event are pretty much out the window. If you say you're going to be there, you actually need to be there. Otherwise, don't expect to come and just ride.

DC
Racer X
While I agree that a rider not doing what they say they are going to do reflects poorly on the overall organization of the sanctioning body and promoters, on the flip side is there any thought of compensation being given to them for that time that they are required to market the sport/series?

Their lack of effort can hurt, but the flip side is that there is also monetary value to their participation as well. Is that value being shared with the riders who do these marketing activities?
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zehn
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zehn 4/30/2020 10:56am
4/30/2020 10:56am
queen of spodes wrote:
They are afraid of privateers showing up on a nearly bone stock 250 two stroke and winning against factory 250 four strokes.
Whatever you want to tell yourself
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DC
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DC 4/30/2020 11:03am
4/30/2020 11:03am
gt80rider wrote:
Gotta love a rule that forces a rider to participate in marketing functions, when they should be focusing on their upcoming race.... Gotta save that cash...
Gotta love a rule that forces a rider to participate in marketing functions, when they should be focusing on their upcoming race.... Gotta save that cash and make the riders do even more crap.... Isn't putting their lives on the line enough?
DC wrote:
It's not what you think, and it has nothing to do with "saving that cash." If you want to come and ride press day, you have...
It's not what you think, and it has nothing to do with "saving that cash." If you want to come and ride press day, you have to show up for the press functions and appointments, like morning talk shows or appearances, and not just show up when it's time to ride. It's damaging to all, the team as well as the series, when a top rider has an appointment with a live local news show and blows it off, because the chances of that station ever coming back and covering the event are pretty much out the window. If you say you're going to be there, you actually need to be there. Otherwise, don't expect to come and just ride.

DC
Racer X
APLMAN99 wrote:
While I agree that a rider not doing what they say they are going to do reflects poorly on the overall organization of the sanctioning body...
While I agree that a rider not doing what they say they are going to do reflects poorly on the overall organization of the sanctioning body and promoters, on the flip side is there any thought of compensation being given to them for that time that they are required to market the sport/series?

Their lack of effort can hurt, but the flip side is that there is also monetary value to their participation as well. Is that value being shared with the riders who do these marketing activities?
Marketing themselves and their motorcycles and the races they enter are a big part of the job of being a professional racer. The promoter doesn't pay them to do press day, but we do allow them to ride the track for extra practice in return for helping out. We also provide the platform and TV coverage for them to support their sponsors and advance their careers; they provide the talent that brings in spectators and sponsors.

DC
Racer X
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KennyT
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KennyT 4/30/2020 11:30am
4/30/2020 11:30am
gt80rider wrote:
Gotta love a rule that forces a rider to participate in marketing functions, when they should be focusing on their upcoming race.... Gotta save that cash...
Gotta love a rule that forces a rider to participate in marketing functions, when they should be focusing on their upcoming race.... Gotta save that cash and make the riders do even more crap.... Isn't putting their lives on the line enough?
No it’s not. It’s a professional sport and being professional about your job duties is part of earning your living. There are many jobs where you put your life at risk, you still need to do what’s asked to stay employed. I like the revisions
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Markopolo400
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Markopolo400 4/30/2020 11:36am
4/30/2020 11:36am
TeamGreen wrote:
I guess no-one watches Canadian moto?
Snocross?
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MOTOXSTATION 4/30/2020 11:40am
4/30/2020 11:40am
So video of off site practice facilities , riders YouTube vlogs etc. are ok? The social media rule is for race day events?
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731chopper
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731chopper 4/30/2020 11:52am
4/30/2020 11:52am
I like the rule about finishing high school. Online schooling has made that very easy to do for kids that actually put in the effort. Unfortunately, I know many of even these schools that are pressured into passing kids who make no effort to complete their courses... but at least it’s something.
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TXDirt
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TXDirt 4/30/2020 11:57am
4/30/2020 11:57am
Will teams be able to sell shirts and rider jerseys yet?
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yak651
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yak651 4/30/2020 12:09pm
4/30/2020 12:09pm
TXDirt wrote:
Will teams be able to sell shirts and rider jerseys yet?

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colintrax
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colintrax 4/30/2020 12:12pm
4/30/2020 12:12pm
Rule changes started great, then crash and burn. Pinch
I'll call it a wash.
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msp332
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msp332 4/30/2020 12:20pm
4/30/2020 12:20pm
DC wrote:
Thanks for the compliment, and I'm not dodging anything. I have explained this many times. There are six major OEMs in this sport right now (soon...
Thanks for the compliment, and I'm not dodging anything. I have explained this many times. There are six major OEMs in this sport right now (soon to be seven) and they invest more money in three championships--AMA Supercross, AMA Pro Motocross, FIM MXGP--than in all other series combined. They have ALL SIX told us time and again that they prefer to race on similar equipment in these series, 250cc four-strokes and 450cc four-strokes. It's not just one brand, or three brands, but ALL of the brands, including all of the ones that still make 250cc two-strokes. They do not have the budgets nor the desire to go back and develop their two-stroke 250s in order to compete at this level again, and while I don't agree with them, nor did I agree with the change 25 years ago, I do respect their opinion to make and market the products they want to market and race against.

DC
Racer X





Any timeline for electric? Any discussions happening? Proposed rules?
vandy509
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vandy509 4/30/2020 12:32pm
4/30/2020 12:32pm
DC wrote:
Same place they are for SX and MXGP, sorry.

DC
Racer X
Boomslang wrote:
I'm guessing the manufacturers dictate that rule or am I wrong?
Boomslang wrote:
What I said about manufacturers dictating displacement rules....I had a thought DC, how many years left before Electric takes over? You guys must be looking and...
What I said about manufacturers dictating displacement rules....I had a thought DC, how many years left before Electric takes over? You guys must be looking and planning ahead right?
Ha - hahahaha! If they were looking and planning ahead they would have let the Alta compete at Loretta's in the Vet classes. But alas they didn't, under the guise of "we need more time to figure it out and plan for it". What better way to do that then to watch them right in front of your own eyes, with some of (arguably) the best vet riders in the country? I'm not saying let them run in the A or B classes right away, these were the vet classes we're talking about. But when your "partners" (the manufacturers) don't have a competing model I'm sure they threw a fit behind the scenes. I bet if/when one of the big manufacturers comes out with an electric model it won't be a problem for them to race it right away.
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BobbyM
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BobbyM 4/30/2020 12:42pm
4/30/2020 12:42pm
alien wrote:
Motocross is going PC , I like this sport less and less with every new rule change . Bob Hannah wouldn't last one week in this...
Motocross is going PC , I like this sport less and less with every new rule change . Bob Hannah wouldn't last one week in this new environment. Going 250 t vs. 250 f in the lites class would just show the AMA and Honda how wrong they were forcing two strokes out of the sport and killing it in the process. And yes I do race, have for over forty years, even spent twenty years as an AMA pro . If you were an average teenage boy would you spend $10,000 on a dirt bike or a car? That is why our local racers are gone.
Oh brother, Hannah would have done whatever it took to race and win.
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Mossy
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Mossy 4/30/2020 12:44pm
4/30/2020 12:44pm
731chopper wrote:
I like the rule about finishing high school. Online schooling has made that very easy to do for kids that actually put in the effort. Unfortunately...
I like the rule about finishing high school. Online schooling has made that very easy to do for kids that actually put in the effort. Unfortunately, I know many of even these schools that are pressured into passing kids who make no effort to complete their courses... but at least it’s something.
As much as I want to not like the rule, I think in this day and age, getting a GED or HS diploma really isn’t that hard. If you can race Pro MX, then god damnit you can get a GED Grinning

It also forces some of these guys that won’t ever make it, to still be able to have a solid future ahead of them. Imagine going all in, failing miserably, or worse getting critically injured, and not even having a high school diploma or GED.
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BobbyM
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BobbyM 4/30/2020 12:45pm
4/30/2020 12:45pm
yz133rider wrote:
Nobody would force them to use the 2 strokes. But it would give privateers a choice. And do you think formula 1 cares about the mfg's...
Nobody would force them to use the 2 strokes. But it would give privateers a choice.

And do you think formula 1 cares about the mfg's feelings before a rule change? No. Mfg's have to adapt to the rules given.
queen of spodes wrote:
They are afraid of privateers showing up on a nearly bone stock 250 two stroke and winning against factory 250 four strokes.
Yea... Sure they are. Just shaking in their SIDI's
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ML512
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ML512 4/30/2020 1:22pm
4/30/2020 1:22pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2020 1:51pm
Bearuno wrote:
DC - I have a high regard for you, and believe you truly love our sport. And that you are a great steward of it, whilst...
DC - I have a high regard for you, and believe you truly love our sport.

And that you are a great steward of it, whilst being a very successful business man.

But that answer is completely unsatisfactory. It's just dodging a fair question, by hiding behind other entities equally bad rules.

Your GNCC series allows equivalency in XC 2 (and I don't see manufacturers pulling out because of it, nor 2T domination / 4T destruction), and now, many National Federations allow it, and most amateur racing allows it.

So, please be a leader / innovator, and do the right thing for the sport. And don't pass the buck because 'others' won't do the right thing for our sport. Be ahead of Feld and Luongo / InFront, not side by side with them in continuing to perpetuate a now decades old problem.

You coud be the man who rectifies a great wrong within our sport, and leads others to do so, as well.
DC wrote:
Thanks for the compliment, and I'm not dodging anything. I have explained this many times. There are six major OEMs in this sport right now (soon...
Thanks for the compliment, and I'm not dodging anything. I have explained this many times. There are six major OEMs in this sport right now (soon to be seven) and they invest more money in three championships--AMA Supercross, AMA Pro Motocross, FIM MXGP--than in all other series combined. They have ALL SIX told us time and again that they prefer to race on similar equipment in these series, 250cc four-strokes and 450cc four-strokes. It's not just one brand, or three brands, but ALL of the brands, including all of the ones that still make 250cc two-strokes. They do not have the budgets nor the desire to go back and develop their two-stroke 250s in order to compete at this level again, and while I don't agree with them, nor did I agree with the change 25 years ago, I do respect their opinion to make and market the products they want to market and race against.

DC
Racer X





yz133rider wrote:
Nobody would force them to use the 2 strokes. But it would give privateers a choice. And do you think formula 1 cares about the mfg's...
Nobody would force them to use the 2 strokes. But it would give privateers a choice.

And do you think formula 1 cares about the mfg's feelings before a rule change? No. Mfg's have to adapt to the rules given.
The constructors in F1 have a ton of say in the technical rules. Especially Ferrari, who from time to time veto whatever they don’t like. There’s a slew of decisions in F1 that the majority of the teams have to vote on to put into effect.
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tp4
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tp4 4/30/2020 1:27pm
4/30/2020 1:27pm
heres my idea..ditch these and start fresh..
ama..time to Retire..your done
wada...take a long walk off.. short pier
FIM..get out of our racing..get out.
MX sports take a hike...you stink.

New title sanction body riders are partners
real time $$ ..with Better sponsors
45 min motos
all 2 strokes are can line up..same class..125..250..and 0pen
not during the HOT summer..stupid
real outdoors..its not hard to start fresh.my opinion

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HondaMan66
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HondaMan66 4/30/2020 1:28pm
4/30/2020 1:28pm
The 250F’s are easier to ride and go fast on so the pro teams would still race those even though they are stupid expensive to race at that level. The smokers are affordable to race, so everybody else could race those if they wanted to. What’s wrong with having the option like Canada, Australia, and amateurs? What I would really like to see is the 450 go the way of the 500’s. Only raced outdoors and a short series. Allow any
250 in the 250 class and bring back the 125’s. That’s how you grow the sport.
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LewDizzle
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LewDizzle 4/30/2020 1:44pm
4/30/2020 1:44pm
DC wrote:
It's not what you think, and it has nothing to do with "saving that cash." If you want to come and ride press day, you have...
It's not what you think, and it has nothing to do with "saving that cash." If you want to come and ride press day, you have to show up for the press functions and appointments, like morning talk shows or appearances, and not just show up when it's time to ride. It's damaging to all, the team as well as the series, when a top rider has an appointment with a live local news show and blows it off, because the chances of that station ever coming back and covering the event are pretty much out the window. If you say you're going to be there, you actually need to be there. Otherwise, don't expect to come and just ride.

DC
Racer X
APLMAN99 wrote:
While I agree that a rider not doing what they say they are going to do reflects poorly on the overall organization of the sanctioning body...
While I agree that a rider not doing what they say they are going to do reflects poorly on the overall organization of the sanctioning body and promoters, on the flip side is there any thought of compensation being given to them for that time that they are required to market the sport/series?

Their lack of effort can hurt, but the flip side is that there is also monetary value to their participation as well. Is that value being shared with the riders who do these marketing activities?
DC wrote:
Marketing themselves and their motorcycles and the races they enter are a big part of the job of being a professional racer. The promoter doesn't pay...
Marketing themselves and their motorcycles and the races they enter are a big part of the job of being a professional racer. The promoter doesn't pay them to do press day, but we do allow them to ride the track for extra practice in return for helping out. We also provide the platform and TV coverage for them to support their sponsors and advance their careers; they provide the talent that brings in spectators and sponsors.

DC
Racer X
...and yet they can't sell their own t-shirts and memorabilia to help advance their careers, put themselves in the public eye and help show off sponsors?
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Zoom
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Zoom 4/30/2020 2:35pm
4/30/2020 2:35pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2020 2:36pm
alien wrote:
Motocross is going PC , I like this sport less and less with every new rule change . Bob Hannah wouldn't last one week in this...
Motocross is going PC , I like this sport less and less with every new rule change . Bob Hannah wouldn't last one week in this new environment. Going 250 t vs. 250 f in the lites class would just show the AMA and Honda how wrong they were forcing two strokes out of the sport and killing it in the process. And yes I do race, have for over forty years, even spent twenty years as an AMA pro . If you were an average teenage boy would you spend $10,000 on a dirt bike or a car? That is why our local racers are gone.
GIwasB4 wrote:
Hannah was his own environment, they would not kick him out, even today. Even in today's environment, Nascar would say "yes sir #3 Mr. Earnhardt"
You forgot one thing about Hannah. As much as he loved winning and speaking his mind, he also loved making money. He would follow the rules to make sure he didn't lose money...
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jtetchila1
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jtetchila1 4/30/2020 5:46pm
4/30/2020 5:46pm
tp4 wrote:
heres my idea..ditch these and start fresh.. ama..time to Retire..your done wada...take a long walk off.. short pier FIM..get out of our racing..get out. MX sports...
heres my idea..ditch these and start fresh..
ama..time to Retire..your done
wada...take a long walk off.. short pier
FIM..get out of our racing..get out.
MX sports take a hike...you stink.

New title sanction body riders are partners
real time $$ ..with Better sponsors
45 min motos
all 2 strokes are can line up..same class..125..250..and 0pen
not during the HOT summer..stupid
real outdoors..its not hard to start fresh.my opinion

Tp4, I am guessing that you have never promoted a race, let alone a traveling series?
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Rick Amatuzio 4/30/2020 7:28pm
4/30/2020 7:28pm
We just had another rider, 15 years old in Minnesota end up paralyzed. I don’t remember this amount of catastrophic injury back when I was young. I wished I understood if it’s riders techniques improved and making the sport more dangerous or the motorcycles being so much easier to ride. I keep pondering, if they went 350 and 200cc, would it help? 450s are just too darn fast aren’t they?

I really feel like the lightweight nimble and under powered two stroke would be good for the sport in a back handed way. I wished something would happen.. change isn’t bad.
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SoCalMX70
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SoCalMX70 4/30/2020 11:42pm
4/30/2020 11:42pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2020 11:43pm
I'm assuming rider payouts are being significantly increased to go with all that rider media exposure they are controlling and selling?

2 stroke rule finally updated?

Riders can sell their own merch?

Travel schedule isn't completely ridiculous?

No? Just keep sucking the soul out of the sport and continue the slow train wreck, then. Hope the riders are all agreeable since we're now starting down the slippery slope of telling them they can't say anything "detrimental". I'm sure that rule will be handled fairly and consistent... No gray area at all.
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scott_nz 4/30/2020 11:46pm
4/30/2020 11:46pm
yz133rider wrote:
Nobody would force them to use the 2 strokes. But it would give privateers a choice. And do you think formula 1 cares about the mfg's...
Nobody would force them to use the 2 strokes. But it would give privateers a choice.

And do you think formula 1 cares about the mfg's feelings before a rule change? No. Mfg's have to adapt to the rules given.
you don't follow formula one closely do you, look up the Ferrari Veto ,
BMc914
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BMc914 4/30/2020 11:57pm
4/30/2020 11:57pm
The idea that kids now have to get a GED or high school diploma to race MOTOCROSS is awesome. But If SUPERCROSS doesn't have same requirements its doesn't matter. All the big money is in supercross so these kids will just be supercross only riders and skip motocross.

Can't have two different series, two different promoters making rules for the same riders. They need to be working together and coming to common ground.

Also how old does the rider have to be until the rule does not apply to have a high school diploma or GED to race?
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lostboy819 5/1/2020 12:33am
5/1/2020 12:33am Edited Date/Time 5/1/2020 12:37am
yz133rider wrote:
Nobody would force them to use the 2 strokes. But it would give privateers a choice. And do you think formula 1 cares about the mfg's...
Nobody would force them to use the 2 strokes. But it would give privateers a choice.

And do you think formula 1 cares about the mfg's feelings before a rule change? No. Mfg's have to adapt to the rules given.
Well I guess you dont know shit about F1, Ferrari basically has a veto power over rules.
Do some homework before spouting off about something you know nothing about.

https://jalopnik.com/why-the-ferrari-f1-team-has-the-power-to-veto-seri…

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/147422/ferrari-will-retain-veto-in-ne…

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/799fwe/eli5_the_ferrari_veto…

https://www.racefans.net/2019/06/03/liberty-is-failing-f1-by-letting-fe…

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a1882661/analysis-just-how-po…

https://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/ferrari-to-keep-veto-power-over-f…
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