Some Rules Changes in MX

kkawboy14
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5/2/2020 2:25pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2020 2:43pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
Ken Roczen works for Honda Eli Tomac works for Kawasaki Their jobs are for those companies! Privateers work for themselves. They are All unpaid participants in...
Ken Roczen works for Honda
Eli Tomac works for Kawasaki

Their jobs are for those companies!

Privateers work for themselves.

They are All unpaid participants in a sporting event. In fact many of them lose money doing it, the government says that if you are losing money doing something it is a hobby.
EngIceDave wrote:
So then who are they unionizing against? Japan? And do you think those who do have jobs with the OEM's are going to walk out on...
So then who are they unionizing against?
Japan?

And do you think those who do have jobs with the OEM's are going to walk out on their big fat paychecks and bonus money?

For who?
What benefit is there for them?

Careers and earning potential window is far too narrow to miss races on some strike that won't even benefit them directly.

The "haves" will not not give up for the "have nots"

That's reality

That's like saying Jamie Dimon will strike so the floor traders can make more money
I’m not saying they have unionizing rights!

I’m saying”if it was a job.....these are the things that would identify it as a job”

My only point is “it’s not a job and as such the demands that are put on an individual are limited”
Like say after a race you have to show up for the press briefing.....does it stop there or does it then grow to, “hey you have to go there and do this also!”?

That’s all!

Personally I don’t think the riders do enough to promote their own sport but because there is this adversarial aspect to the industry as in riders say “I don’t work for you”.....promoters say “yes you do”, “no I don’t”, “yes you do, “no I don’t”.....it leads to a “I don’t really want to be here but they are making me so I guess I will sit up here and pass gas for 15 minutes just so they can’t say I didn’t do it!“, kind of display for the media after the races.
2
APLMAN99
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5/2/2020 4:27pm
DC wrote:
It's not what you think, and it has nothing to do with "saving that cash." If you want to come and ride press day, you have...
It's not what you think, and it has nothing to do with "saving that cash." If you want to come and ride press day, you have to show up for the press functions and appointments, like morning talk shows or appearances, and not just show up when it's time to ride. It's damaging to all, the team as well as the series, when a top rider has an appointment with a live local news show and blows it off, because the chances of that station ever coming back and covering the event are pretty much out the window. If you say you're going to be there, you actually need to be there. Otherwise, don't expect to come and just ride.

DC
Racer X
APLMAN99 wrote:
While I agree that a rider not doing what they say they are going to do reflects poorly on the overall organization of the sanctioning body...
While I agree that a rider not doing what they say they are going to do reflects poorly on the overall organization of the sanctioning body and promoters, on the flip side is there any thought of compensation being given to them for that time that they are required to market the sport/series?

Their lack of effort can hurt, but the flip side is that there is also monetary value to their participation as well. Is that value being shared with the riders who do these marketing activities?
DC wrote:
Marketing themselves and their motorcycles and the races they enter are a big part of the job of being a professional racer. The promoter doesn't pay...
Marketing themselves and their motorcycles and the races they enter are a big part of the job of being a professional racer. The promoter doesn't pay them to do press day, but we do allow them to ride the track for extra practice in return for helping out. We also provide the platform and TV coverage for them to support their sponsors and advance their careers; they provide the talent that brings in spectators and sponsors.

DC
Racer X
Thanks for the reasonable and rational response!

Since you mentioned that press day was “extra practice”, do you think that it’s fair to withhold this advantage from some riders who don’t necessarily agree that they are actually compensated for marketing activities during this time? Is press day open to every rider entered for an event so that all participants have an equal opportunity to practice on the same basic layout of the track that they will be competing on?

And again, since this is admittedly extra practice, how can a sanctioning body justify taking that opportunity away from a competitor based on, at best, vague subjective reasons?
2
5/2/2020 4:39pm
Could someone explain to me the significance of the HSD rule? As I'm not seeing the relevance as far as racing Pro Motocross?

Not having a dig, just curious as to why that was added.
1
DC
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5/2/2020 4:52pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
While I agree that a rider not doing what they say they are going to do reflects poorly on the overall organization of the sanctioning body...
While I agree that a rider not doing what they say they are going to do reflects poorly on the overall organization of the sanctioning body and promoters, on the flip side is there any thought of compensation being given to them for that time that they are required to market the sport/series?

Their lack of effort can hurt, but the flip side is that there is also monetary value to their participation as well. Is that value being shared with the riders who do these marketing activities?
DC wrote:
Marketing themselves and their motorcycles and the races they enter are a big part of the job of being a professional racer. The promoter doesn't pay...
Marketing themselves and their motorcycles and the races they enter are a big part of the job of being a professional racer. The promoter doesn't pay them to do press day, but we do allow them to ride the track for extra practice in return for helping out. We also provide the platform and TV coverage for them to support their sponsors and advance their careers; they provide the talent that brings in spectators and sponsors.

DC
Racer X
APLMAN99 wrote:
Thanks for the reasonable and rational response! Since you mentioned that press day was “extra practice”, do you think that it’s fair to withhold this advantage...
Thanks for the reasonable and rational response!

Since you mentioned that press day was “extra practice”, do you think that it’s fair to withhold this advantage from some riders who don’t necessarily agree that they are actually compensated for marketing activities during this time? Is press day open to every rider entered for an event so that all participants have an equal opportunity to practice on the same basic layout of the track that they will be competing on?

And again, since this is admittedly extra practice, how can a sanctioning body justify taking that opportunity away from a competitor based on, at best, vague subjective reasons?
First, not the sanctioning body, just the series and event promoters.

Second, when you ask someone to come to town early to help out with press, you're asking them to give up a day of practice/training back home to be there early to help out with local media. So we talked with the teams and riders and they said if they were given a chance to ride some Thursday or Friday, that would help a lot. So we do it, and it works well. Except on Vital.

The track is not prepped the way it is for the national. In fact, they usually stop the amateur races to let the pros ride for 40 minutes. It's a chance for them to ride and stretch out and do what they missed at home by coming in a day early. Maybe "practice" was the wrong word. "Riding" in from of local TV cameras and photographers, but on the same track (though not same conditions) they will see in the race.

It's also available at one point or another to all privateers. We give every rider the chance to do at least
one, though we do try to get local guys to do their own local nationals. The media wants to hear from them as much as Eli or Kenny or Cooper or anyone.

This has been the process for both SX and MX for years now. Now it's an issue, because?

DC
Racer X
1

The Shop

DC
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5/2/2020 4:55pm
Could someone explain to me the significance of the HSD rule? As I'm not seeing the relevance as far as racing Pro Motocross? Not having a...
Could someone explain to me the significance of the HSD rule? As I'm not seeing the relevance as far as racing Pro Motocross?

Not having a dig, just curious as to why that was added.
We all know too many people that made a go at professional racing as a career, did not have a back-up plan (like a high school education) and struggle now. We wanted to give them what most other sports have, and that's a scholastic tie-in to help them in case it doesn't work out the way they hoped...

Is there a part about this simple requirement that is the wrong direction?

DC
Racer X
7
5/2/2020 4:59pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2020 5:00pm
Could someone explain to me the significance of the HSD rule? As I'm not seeing the relevance as far as racing Pro Motocross? Not having a...
Could someone explain to me the significance of the HSD rule? As I'm not seeing the relevance as far as racing Pro Motocross?

Not having a dig, just curious as to why that was added.
DC wrote:
We all know too many people that made a go at professional racing as a career, did not have a back-up plan (like a high school...
We all know too many people that made a go at professional racing as a career, did not have a back-up plan (like a high school education) and struggle now. We wanted to give them what most other sports have, and that's a scholastic tie-in to help them in case it doesn't work out the way they hoped...

Is there a part about this simple requirement that is the wrong direction?

DC
Racer X
I was just discussing this with a friend and that's the conclusion we came to, I just wasn't aware that that was actually a problem within the sport but it does make sense as would be pro's ride from a very young age and probably miss out on some schooling. I honestly hadn't even considered some riders do that.

A step in the right direction for sure, thanks for the reply!
2
kkawboy14
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5/2/2020 7:03pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2020 7:04pm
Could someone explain to me the significance of the HSD rule? As I'm not seeing the relevance as far as racing Pro Motocross? Not having a...
Could someone explain to me the significance of the HSD rule? As I'm not seeing the relevance as far as racing Pro Motocross?

Not having a dig, just curious as to why that was added.
DC wrote:
We all know too many people that made a go at professional racing as a career, did not have a back-up plan (like a high school...
We all know too many people that made a go at professional racing as a career, did not have a back-up plan (like a high school education) and struggle now. We wanted to give them what most other sports have, and that's a scholastic tie-in to help them in case it doesn't work out the way they hoped...

Is there a part about this simple requirement that is the wrong direction?

DC
Racer X
I don’t think we have a problem with it....we are actually voicing to you what many riders are saying about It, why do you think this is about some couch riding, potatoe munching, beer chugging fat old senior riders that blast away on vital?

Since we all know the Pros hang out here, how about you guys chime in on this subject? Let everyone know how much you love these things and feel like you are adequately compensated for the privilege to throw down at least 1 time during the year at 1 track!

5
kkawboy14
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5/2/2020 7:14pm
DC wrote:
Marketing themselves and their motorcycles and the races they enter are a big part of the job of being a professional racer. The promoter doesn't pay...
Marketing themselves and their motorcycles and the races they enter are a big part of the job of being a professional racer. The promoter doesn't pay them to do press day, but we do allow them to ride the track for extra practice in return for helping out. We also provide the platform and TV coverage for them to support their sponsors and advance their careers; they provide the talent that brings in spectators and sponsors.

DC
Racer X
APLMAN99 wrote:
Thanks for the reasonable and rational response! Since you mentioned that press day was “extra practice”, do you think that it’s fair to withhold this advantage...
Thanks for the reasonable and rational response!

Since you mentioned that press day was “extra practice”, do you think that it’s fair to withhold this advantage from some riders who don’t necessarily agree that they are actually compensated for marketing activities during this time? Is press day open to every rider entered for an event so that all participants have an equal opportunity to practice on the same basic layout of the track that they will be competing on?

And again, since this is admittedly extra practice, how can a sanctioning body justify taking that opportunity away from a competitor based on, at best, vague subjective reasons?
DC wrote:
First, not the sanctioning body, just the series and event promoters. Second, when you ask someone to come to town early to help out with press...
First, not the sanctioning body, just the series and event promoters.

Second, when you ask someone to come to town early to help out with press, you're asking them to give up a day of practice/training back home to be there early to help out with local media. So we talked with the teams and riders and they said if they were given a chance to ride some Thursday or Friday, that would help a lot. So we do it, and it works well. Except on Vital.

The track is not prepped the way it is for the national. In fact, they usually stop the amateur races to let the pros ride for 40 minutes. It's a chance for them to ride and stretch out and do what they missed at home by coming in a day early. Maybe "practice" was the wrong word. "Riding" in from of local TV cameras and photographers, but on the same track (though not same conditions) they will see in the race.

It's also available at one point or another to all privateers. We give every rider the chance to do at least
one, though we do try to get local guys to do their own local nationals. The media wants to hear from them as much as Eli or Kenny or Cooper or anyone.

This has been the process for both SX and MX for years now. Now it's an issue, because?

DC
Racer X
Also it’s just engrained in your terminology to downplay the reality that we are pointing out here.

“When you’re asking them to help”

You see you’re not asking them, you’re demanding that they participate, it’s in the “rules” to participate in this sporting event that they aren’t compensated for, actually they are paying themselves to participate, it’s kinda funny, I don’t pay for the opportunity to show up at my “Job” for the opportunity to possibly make nothing that day.
Big difference!
8
EngIceDave
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5/2/2020 7:48pm
Scott, you're talking out your ass again.

That said, how ya been?
Well I hope
1
t_baum88
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5/2/2020 8:52pm
I imagine DC sitting at his computer taking a big deep breath every time he's about to hit submit on new rule changes


Knowing he will have to be in here the next day defending it to some morans


I like it
1
5/2/2020 9:52pm
HondaMan66 wrote:
Hey DC,
Where is the rule allowing equal displacement in the 250 class?
DC wrote:
Same place they are for SX and MXGP, sorry.

DC
Racer X
Hard for me to recall another situation over my many years on this planet where corporations ignored what the people want and forced what it wanted on the public in a way that diminishes their customer base (because of the cost of buying and keeping up a 4 stroke.)

I do agree smaller displacements for 4 strokes would help make the sport safer (and probably more fun as evidenced by the resurgence of the 125 class), but no way is a manufacturer going to be forced to retool because of a change in 4 stroke displacement rules.

Therefore, changing the 2 stroke displacement rules are probably the most feasible. It should be allowed for a privateer to race a competitive 2 stoke with the for strokes. The current rules are not fair and equal displacement is not fair either. Any 2 stroke up to 300cc should be allowed to race the 450 class and any 2 stroke up to 167cc should be allowed to race the 125 class. That is fair, would make racing more exciting, encourages more participation in mx racing. Since it is a rider or team choice what they decide to ride, any criticism of by the big manufacturers about such a rule (since they themselves can still race what they want), I would consider utterly dishonest.

If we cant make this happen then we need something akin to "separation of church and state" to happen with the racing associations. Otherwise we just consider the racing associations nothing more than mere puppets of the big manufacturers.
1
Plugga
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Beanbag, QLD AU
5/2/2020 9:57pm
There is no way a 250 two stroke will outperform a Star Yamaha or a PC KX250........ 250 Four Strokes have had almost 20 years of...
There is no way a 250 two stroke will outperform a Star Yamaha or a PC KX250........ 250 Four Strokes have had almost 20 years of development. Even the stock ones are unbelievable
Plugga wrote:
...so why do we have these handicap rules still in place?
Didn’t DC already cover that? The other manufacturers who don’t make 2 strokes anymore don’t want it happening.
Exactly.
1
kkawboy14
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5/3/2020 2:48am Edited Date/Time 5/3/2020 2:49am
EngIceDave wrote:
Scott, you're talking out your ass again.

That said, how ya been?
Well I hope
Well you know I’m good at that 😂


Yeah man I’m doing good! Got my PPP money, the heart is still ticking and I got to ride all day Friday, so for sure I can’t complain!
1
scott_nz
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5/3/2020 9:54am
Hard for me to recall another situation over my many years on this planet where corporations ignored what the people want and forced what it wanted...
Hard for me to recall another situation over my many years on this planet where corporations ignored what the people want and forced what it wanted on the public in a way that diminishes their customer base (because of the cost of buying and keeping up a 4 stroke.)

I do agree smaller displacements for 4 strokes would help make the sport safer (and probably more fun as evidenced by the resurgence of the 125 class), but no way is a manufacturer going to be forced to retool because of a change in 4 stroke displacement rules.

Therefore, changing the 2 stroke displacement rules are probably the most feasible. It should be allowed for a privateer to race a competitive 2 stoke with the for strokes. The current rules are not fair and equal displacement is not fair either. Any 2 stroke up to 300cc should be allowed to race the 450 class and any 2 stroke up to 167cc should be allowed to race the 125 class. That is fair, would make racing more exciting, encourages more participation in mx racing. Since it is a rider or team choice what they decide to ride, any criticism of by the big manufacturers about such a rule (since they themselves can still race what they want), I would consider utterly dishonest.

If we cant make this happen then we need something akin to "separation of church and state" to happen with the racing associations. Otherwise we just consider the racing associations nothing more than mere puppets of the big manufacturers.
Your wrong about the corps going against what people want , and sales prove it

4 strokes sell more than 2 strokes. , that’s why 3 major manufacturers don’t bother making 2 strokes anymore
3
5/3/2020 10:27am
Hard for me to recall another situation over my many years on this planet where corporations ignored what the people want and forced what it wanted...
Hard for me to recall another situation over my many years on this planet where corporations ignored what the people want and forced what it wanted on the public in a way that diminishes their customer base (because of the cost of buying and keeping up a 4 stroke.)

I do agree smaller displacements for 4 strokes would help make the sport safer (and probably more fun as evidenced by the resurgence of the 125 class), but no way is a manufacturer going to be forced to retool because of a change in 4 stroke displacement rules.

Therefore, changing the 2 stroke displacement rules are probably the most feasible. It should be allowed for a privateer to race a competitive 2 stoke with the for strokes. The current rules are not fair and equal displacement is not fair either. Any 2 stroke up to 300cc should be allowed to race the 450 class and any 2 stroke up to 167cc should be allowed to race the 125 class. That is fair, would make racing more exciting, encourages more participation in mx racing. Since it is a rider or team choice what they decide to ride, any criticism of by the big manufacturers about such a rule (since they themselves can still race what they want), I would consider utterly dishonest.

If we cant make this happen then we need something akin to "separation of church and state" to happen with the racing associations. Otherwise we just consider the racing associations nothing more than mere puppets of the big manufacturers.
scott_nz wrote:
Your wrong about the corps going against what people want , and sales prove it 4 strokes sell more than 2 strokes. , that’s why 3...
Your wrong about the corps going against what people want , and sales prove it

4 strokes sell more than 2 strokes. , that’s why 3 major manufacturers don’t bother making 2 strokes anymore
I think you are quite wrong there Scott.. to quote your own stats, it would be amazing if 15-20 year old technology with few brand options were selling half as many bikes as the updated 4 strokes with so many brand options!!!

Basically, aside from KTM, the Yamaha 2 strokes left haven't been updated in 15 years. There are no more Kawasaki, Suzuki or Honda 2 strokes to even buy, so what the heck do you expect.

And before you try to site just KTM sales stats, remember that that competition among 2 stroke brands is not as intense as the 4 models.

The fact that there have been so many rumor threads on this site talking about Suzuki or Honda coming back with a 2 stroke over the years, as well as people resurrecting 20 year old 2 stoke bikes to ride as their main bike, gives testament to the pent up demand for 2 strokes.

I have both 4 strokes and 2 strokes and like many, I find my 2 strokes so much more fun to ride.
JeremyK
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5/3/2020 10:58am
kkawboy14 wrote:
It’s not a job! They are unpaid participants in a sporting event! If it was a job they could not be denied union rights to form...
It’s not a job!

They are unpaid participants in a sporting event!

If it was a job they could not be denied union rights to form a union, they would have to be paid minimum wages.....oh your saying they are subcontractors? Well then you don’t have the right to tell them what to do in that arrangement!
If there is a union then everyone would have to have equal equipment . Union dues would have to paid ,does a guy who doesnt make every main still have to pay union dues ? Or are you just playing the entitled card that a business should go broke distributing their profits to everyone with their hand out?
1
2
scott_nz
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5/3/2020 11:44am
Hard for me to recall another situation over my many years on this planet where corporations ignored what the people want and forced what it wanted...
Hard for me to recall another situation over my many years on this planet where corporations ignored what the people want and forced what it wanted on the public in a way that diminishes their customer base (because of the cost of buying and keeping up a 4 stroke.)

I do agree smaller displacements for 4 strokes would help make the sport safer (and probably more fun as evidenced by the resurgence of the 125 class), but no way is a manufacturer going to be forced to retool because of a change in 4 stroke displacement rules.

Therefore, changing the 2 stroke displacement rules are probably the most feasible. It should be allowed for a privateer to race a competitive 2 stoke with the for strokes. The current rules are not fair and equal displacement is not fair either. Any 2 stroke up to 300cc should be allowed to race the 450 class and any 2 stroke up to 167cc should be allowed to race the 125 class. That is fair, would make racing more exciting, encourages more participation in mx racing. Since it is a rider or team choice what they decide to ride, any criticism of by the big manufacturers about such a rule (since they themselves can still race what they want), I would consider utterly dishonest.

If we cant make this happen then we need something akin to "separation of church and state" to happen with the racing associations. Otherwise we just consider the racing associations nothing more than mere puppets of the big manufacturers.
scott_nz wrote:
Your wrong about the corps going against what people want , and sales prove it 4 strokes sell more than 2 strokes. , that’s why 3...
Your wrong about the corps going against what people want , and sales prove it

4 strokes sell more than 2 strokes. , that’s why 3 major manufacturers don’t bother making 2 strokes anymore
I think you are quite wrong there Scott.. to quote your own stats, it would be amazing if 15-20 year old technology with few brand options...
I think you are quite wrong there Scott.. to quote your own stats, it would be amazing if 15-20 year old technology with few brand options were selling half as many bikes as the updated 4 strokes with so many brand options!!!

Basically, aside from KTM, the Yamaha 2 strokes left haven't been updated in 15 years. There are no more Kawasaki, Suzuki or Honda 2 strokes to even buy, so what the heck do you expect.

And before you try to site just KTM sales stats, remember that that competition among 2 stroke brands is not as intense as the 4 models.

The fact that there have been so many rumor threads on this site talking about Suzuki or Honda coming back with a 2 stroke over the years, as well as people resurrecting 20 year old 2 stoke bikes to ride as their main bike, gives testament to the pent up demand for 2 strokes.

I have both 4 strokes and 2 strokes and like many, I find my 2 strokes so much more fun to ride.
the Australian figures are the only ones i have ever seen published to the public, so ill use those,

https://www.fcai.com.au/news/index/view/news/601

no full size mx 2 stroke makes the top 10 list of mx bikes sold,
Even KTM sell more four strokes than they do 2 stroke mx bikes, (in full size bikes)
kkawboy14
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5/3/2020 12:45pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
It’s not a job! They are unpaid participants in a sporting event! If it was a job they could not be denied union rights to form...
It’s not a job!

They are unpaid participants in a sporting event!

If it was a job they could not be denied union rights to form a union, they would have to be paid minimum wages.....oh your saying they are subcontractors? Well then you don’t have the right to tell them what to do in that arrangement!
JeremyK wrote:
If there is a union then everyone would have to have equal equipment . Union dues would have to paid ,does a guy who doesnt make...
If there is a union then everyone would have to have equal equipment . Union dues would have to paid ,does a guy who doesnt make every main still have to pay union dues ? Or are you just playing the entitled card that a business should go broke distributing their profits to everyone with their hand out?
You just proved my point....it’s not a job! Thanks!
APLMAN99
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5/3/2020 1:01pm
DC wrote:
Marketing themselves and their motorcycles and the races they enter are a big part of the job of being a professional racer. The promoter doesn't pay...
Marketing themselves and their motorcycles and the races they enter are a big part of the job of being a professional racer. The promoter doesn't pay them to do press day, but we do allow them to ride the track for extra practice in return for helping out. We also provide the platform and TV coverage for them to support their sponsors and advance their careers; they provide the talent that brings in spectators and sponsors.

DC
Racer X
APLMAN99 wrote:
Thanks for the reasonable and rational response! Since you mentioned that press day was “extra practice”, do you think that it’s fair to withhold this advantage...
Thanks for the reasonable and rational response!

Since you mentioned that press day was “extra practice”, do you think that it’s fair to withhold this advantage from some riders who don’t necessarily agree that they are actually compensated for marketing activities during this time? Is press day open to every rider entered for an event so that all participants have an equal opportunity to practice on the same basic layout of the track that they will be competing on?

And again, since this is admittedly extra practice, how can a sanctioning body justify taking that opportunity away from a competitor based on, at best, vague subjective reasons?
DC wrote:
First, not the sanctioning body, just the series and event promoters. Second, when you ask someone to come to town early to help out with press...
First, not the sanctioning body, just the series and event promoters.

Second, when you ask someone to come to town early to help out with press, you're asking them to give up a day of practice/training back home to be there early to help out with local media. So we talked with the teams and riders and they said if they were given a chance to ride some Thursday or Friday, that would help a lot. So we do it, and it works well. Except on Vital.

The track is not prepped the way it is for the national. In fact, they usually stop the amateur races to let the pros ride for 40 minutes. It's a chance for them to ride and stretch out and do what they missed at home by coming in a day early. Maybe "practice" was the wrong word. "Riding" in from of local TV cameras and photographers, but on the same track (though not same conditions) they will see in the race.

It's also available at one point or another to all privateers. We give every rider the chance to do at least
one, though we do try to get local guys to do their own local nationals. The media wants to hear from them as much as Eli or Kenny or Cooper or anyone.

This has been the process for both SX and MX for years now. Now it's an issue, because?

DC
Racer X
In the case of the Nationals, I think the separation between the sanctioning body and the series promoter is minuscule, at best.

The reason that this could be a potential issue now is because this hasn’t been the process for years now. If it had been, there would be no reason for a rule change. The fines and penalties are a pretty big change to the status quo.
1
avidchimp
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5/3/2020 1:03pm
JeremyK wrote:
If there is a union then everyone would have to have equal equipment . Union dues would have to paid ,does a guy who doesnt make...
If there is a union then everyone would have to have equal equipment . Union dues would have to paid ,does a guy who doesnt make every main still have to pay union dues ? Or are you just playing the entitled card that a business should go broke distributing their profits to everyone with their hand out?
Being in a Union has nothing to do with equal equipment, or whether someone makes more or gets the better jobs. It's about a minimum income standard, health and retirement benefits, and safe working conditions. Negotiating power that comes with numbers, and the fact that the show doesn't go unless all parties agree to terms and conditions.

And yes, even the guy who doesn't make every main has to pay dues. It is this way in every Union/Guild.
1
JeremyK
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5/3/2020 5:27pm
avidchimp wrote:
Being in a Union has nothing to do with equal equipment, or whether someone makes more or gets the better jobs. It's about a minimum income...
Being in a Union has nothing to do with equal equipment, or whether someone makes more or gets the better jobs. It's about a minimum income standard, health and retirement benefits, and safe working conditions. Negotiating power that comes with numbers, and the fact that the show doesn't go unless all parties agree to terms and conditions.

And yes, even the guy who doesn't make every main has to pay dues. It is this way in every Union/Guild.
The union that i belong to gives equal equipment and equal opportunity.
1
JeremyK
Posts
510
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Location
North Tonawanda, NY US
5/3/2020 5:30pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
It’s not a job! They are unpaid participants in a sporting event! If it was a job they could not be denied union rights to form...
It’s not a job!

They are unpaid participants in a sporting event!

If it was a job they could not be denied union rights to form a union, they would have to be paid minimum wages.....oh your saying they are subcontractors? Well then you don’t have the right to tell them what to do in that arrangement!
JeremyK wrote:
If there is a union then everyone would have to have equal equipment . Union dues would have to paid ,does a guy who doesnt make...
If there is a union then everyone would have to have equal equipment . Union dues would have to paid ,does a guy who doesnt make every main still have to pay union dues ? Or are you just playing the entitled card that a business should go broke distributing their profits to everyone with their hand out?
kkawboy14 wrote:
You just proved my point....it’s not a job! Thanks!
It most certainly is an occupation which could also be called a job ,certainly not your cut and dry 9-5 when you figure in the outside sponsorships and what not.
OldYZRider1
Posts
848
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7/10/2009
Location
Bushnell, IL US
5/3/2020 5:39pm
Didn’t DC already cover that? The other manufacturers who don’t make 2 strokes anymore don’t want it happening.
Seems to me what he’s indicating is that there should be no problem letting 250 two strokes race against 250 four strokes. The factories don’t want to use and develop the two strokes in the professional series and basically have a gentlemen's agreement not to race them. The factories hold all the cards so it’s not likely that a privateer two stroke effort could even crack the top five but on the rare occasion that one did the fans would love to see it. I say throw the privateers a bone and allow them a fairly competitive and less expensive two stroke platform to race with if they so choose.

Everything is done for the manufacturers it seems. If they infuse so much money in the sport that without it the whole thing will collapse then why not just have them go in whole hog and provide free admission to all the races? They’ll get more spectators through the gate which could translate into more sales for them.
2
WFO
Posts
601
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Terrell, TX US
5/3/2020 5:59pm
WADA Code reminds of The WHO. Its a governing body that has Incredible "Control" and at some point, just like in politics, receives money, elections, and again "Control". Giving any person or organization "Control" over our sport is frightening. It speaks of folks looking to globalize and make a buck. If I'm wrong then let the organizers of SX/MX open up their books. The politics in this sport is Incredible. If I'm wrong then show me the numbers. At least start a RO, (riders organization). The NFL, NBA, MLB etc has one. If SX and MX allows the money makers to control them and have no say then they will be nothing more than lemmings.
1

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