Washougal MX being sued---

sclark309d 7/13/2017 9:53am
7/13/2017 9:53am
YellowZonker wrote:
Aside from how ridiculous the whole thing is, the part that stands out to me is that the suit says he wasn't aware of the danger...
Aside from how ridiculous the whole thing is, the part that stands out to me is that the suit says he wasn't aware of the danger. I'm pretty sure the job description of a flagger is to warn people about the danger of a crashed rider. Hopefully common sense prevails.
well, if it's true that a flagger isn't aware of the danger, then that explains a lot of the flagger behaviors we all complain about, eh?
1
byke
Profile picture for user byke
Posts
3113
Joined
8/12/2015
Location
Auburn, CA, USA
byke 7/13/2017 10:05am
7/13/2017 10:05am
Something I read on another forum that stuck with me was, "morals are a wonderful thing, if you can afford them". Meaning, it's much easier to do the right thing when you have the means to do them. My guess is this guy can afford morals right now.
WhipMeister
Profile picture for user WhipMeister
Posts
5268
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Big D, TX, USA
WhipMeister 7/13/2017 10:06am
7/13/2017 10:06am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Would the news report say that the insurance company filed the suit in his behalf if the insurance chose the subrogation route?
You're asking the wrong person. FWIW, I've pretty much lost faith in the ability of news media to report anything accurately.
2
1
APLMAN99
Profile picture for user APLMAN99
Posts
12740
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
264th
APLMAN99 7/13/2017 10:57am
7/13/2017 10:57am
mxtech1 wrote:
Can anyone answer ???? If the insurance company of Barnes is the driving force behind the claims filed, don't they still need consent from Barnes to...
Can anyone answer ????

If the insurance company of Barnes is the driving force behind the claims filed, don't they still need consent from Barnes to proceed in order to make claims on his behalf to seek compensation from the financial damages?

If Barnes said "hell no you aren't suing Washougal MX" can the insurance company still bring a case to the table?

I know the guy is Core and has been around for decades, but people make decisions that a very, very hard when debts start to arise, so much to the point they might be financially crippling. The guy went through some devastating injuries, lengthy hospital stays, and probably couldn't work for a long time. Even if he was trying to recover some costs to get himself out from underneath from the mountain of medical debt, I feel he has a right to do so.

Just because he was a volunteer does not negate Washougal from their obligations to keep people safe and injury free. That includes racers, crew members, fans, volunteers, etc. This might be treated like many other workplace injuries.
WhipMeister wrote:
You give consent when you purchase the policy. "SUBROGATION" clause.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Would the news report say that the insurance company filed the suit in his behalf if the insurance chose the subrogation route?
The "news" folks may not even know one way or the other, just know the names of the plaintiffs and respondents.

The second paragraph of this guy's explanation might be related to this (or might not obviously!).



The Shop

See All »
omalley
Profile picture for user omalley
Posts
1528
Joined
7/27/2016
Location
Snohomish, WA, USA
omalley 7/13/2017 11:14am
7/13/2017 11:14am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Would the news report say that the insurance company filed the suit in his behalf if the insurance chose the subrogation route?
WhipMeister wrote:
You're asking the wrong person. FWIW, I've pretty much lost faith in the ability of news media to report anything accurately.
Exactly. "Journalism" is dead. It should be renamed to "ad sales through sensationalism." It used to be that being first was only one criteria, accurate reporting being another. Now being first is all that matters. Facts are a minor consideration.
FIREfish148
Profile picture for user FIREfish148
Posts
5486
Joined
1/20/2009
Location
Kirkland, WA, USA
FIREfish148 7/13/2017 2:06pm
7/13/2017 2:06pm
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going to shoug for a while and has watched from the hp hillside knows how gnarly that section is and has seen their far share of riders wad right there. I just hope they don't take the s turns out completely. Maybe they will make it a sand pit or something? Lol
Elite
Profile picture for user Elite
Posts
36
Joined
7/10/2017
Location
USA, WA, USA
Elite 7/13/2017 2:20pm
7/13/2017 2:20pm
FIREfish148 wrote:
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going...
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going to shoug for a while and has watched from the hp hillside knows how gnarly that section is and has seen their far share of riders wad right there. I just hope they don't take the s turns out completely. Maybe they will make it a sand pit or something? Lol
The S turn is dangerous? IF a wad is a tip over, or a bike stall. What are you talking about?
Also track changes have to submitted 2 years in advance. So unless shoug was planning changing the S turn 2 years ago, it will be there next weekend.
omalley
Profile picture for user omalley
Posts
1528
Joined
7/27/2016
Location
Snohomish, WA, USA
omalley 7/13/2017 4:08pm
7/13/2017 4:08pm
FIREfish148 wrote:
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going...
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going to shoug for a while and has watched from the hp hillside knows how gnarly that section is and has seen their far share of riders wad right there. I just hope they don't take the s turns out completely. Maybe they will make it a sand pit or something? Lol
Elite wrote:
The S turn is dangerous? IF a wad is a tip over, or a bike stall. What are you talking about? Also track changes have to...
The S turn is dangerous? IF a wad is a tip over, or a bike stall. What are you talking about?
Also track changes have to submitted 2 years in advance. So unless shoug was planning changing the S turn 2 years ago, it will be there next weekend.
I would imagine what he's referring to is if a rider wads it off the ski jump, and the s-turn is where the bike finally leaves the track.
jeffro503
Profile picture for user jeffro503
Posts
27645
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR, USA
jeffro503 7/13/2017 5:12pm
7/13/2017 5:12pm
FIREfish148 wrote:
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going...
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going to shoug for a while and has watched from the hp hillside knows how gnarly that section is and has seen their far share of riders wad right there. I just hope they don't take the s turns out completely. Maybe they will make it a sand pit or something? Lol
Well....I can tell you from experience , that having a guy come the far right to the far left and taking your front end out right before take off on the down hill , as you land completely flat and slide into the S turns....hurts like a son of a bitch!!

I looked like someone attacked me with a belt grinder and needed people with a hose to break the jersey loose from my skin from my shoulder all the way to my hip. Good times!

As far as Bruce goes....I only know what's on the initial post here and what he told me personally ( and my buddy ) at mtn view last summer. He hinted around about doing this , but I thought he was blowing smoke. And Fwiw...I know Bruce to be a good dude , as well as his entire family. I will also say....some things aren't adding up right here. In many different ways.
KirkChandler
Profile picture for user KirkChandler
Posts
1678
Joined
7/31/2015
Location
Oceanside, CA, USA
KirkChandler 7/13/2017 5:29pm
7/13/2017 5:29pm
FIREfish148 wrote:
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going...
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going to shoug for a while and has watched from the hp hillside knows how gnarly that section is and has seen their far share of riders wad right there. I just hope they don't take the s turns out completely. Maybe they will make it a sand pit or something? Lol
Based on experience, you shouldn't go changing obstacles immediately after a lawsuit is filed, as it could be viewed as an admission of guilt on behalf of the track. We always rotated our track designs, jumps, etc on a 2-3 month rotation and we had to fight this argument in court.

The plaintiff's attorney had an easy argument "They changed it because they knew it was a dangerous section of the track, so they are guilty of being negligent in their track design." Our response was that we changed track designs regularly and had proof of multiple massive track changes every couple of months and we weren't admitting guilt by changing the track. But we got scolded by our attorney for modifying the track in the mean time.
GuyB
Profile picture for user GuyB
Posts
35722
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
GuyB 7/13/2017 5:55pm
7/13/2017 5:55pm
FIREfish148 wrote:
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going...
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going to shoug for a while and has watched from the hp hillside knows how gnarly that section is and has seen their far share of riders wad right there. I just hope they don't take the s turns out completely. Maybe they will make it a sand pit or something? Lol
How does someone cartwheeling off the ski jump affect the S turns?
DanDunes818 7/13/2017 6:03pm
7/13/2017 6:03pm
FIREfish148 wrote:
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going...
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going to shoug for a while and has watched from the hp hillside knows how gnarly that section is and has seen their far share of riders wad right there. I just hope they don't take the s turns out completely. Maybe they will make it a sand pit or something? Lol
jeffro503 wrote:
Well....I can tell you from experience , that having a guy come the far right to the far left and taking your front end out right...
Well....I can tell you from experience , that having a guy come the far right to the far left and taking your front end out right before take off on the down hill , as you land completely flat and slide into the S turns....hurts like a son of a bitch!!

I looked like someone attacked me with a belt grinder and needed people with a hose to break the jersey loose from my skin from my shoulder all the way to my hip. Good times!

As far as Bruce goes....I only know what's on the initial post here and what he told me personally ( and my buddy ) at mtn view last summer. He hinted around about doing this , but I thought he was blowing smoke. And Fwiw...I know Bruce to be a good dude , as well as his entire family. I will also say....some things aren't adding up right here. In many different ways.
I hear you, i had some close calls off the drop off but mainly from a sneak attack of a peaked out braking bump that I didn't notice before I changed lines. I have seen some of the biggest crashes in my life with guys getting sideways off the drop off, landing sideways and going for a high side ride, or landing and nailing a one of those famous Washougal braking bumps. But, do I think that is an especially dangerous section? No way, it's just a section that takes some extra thought early in a moto checking out where the braking bumps are.

There's only been one section at Washougal I've ever thought was extremely dangerous and they changed that in the late 90's early 2000's. Before the horsepower hill step-up it used to be a wide open 4th - 5th gear sweeper and the two lines would cross right at the step up. I left my ACL on the step up in '96 when I found myself tangled with a rider there wide open. They changed, that though and created the section that is there now.
dkg
Profile picture for user dkg
Posts
1885
Joined
9/12/2010
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA, USA
dkg 7/13/2017 7:16pm
7/13/2017 7:16pm
FIREfish148 wrote:
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going...
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going to shoug for a while and has watched from the hp hillside knows how gnarly that section is and has seen their far share of riders wad right there. I just hope they don't take the s turns out completely. Maybe they will make it a sand pit or something? Lol
KirkChandler wrote:
Based on experience, you shouldn't go changing obstacles immediately after a lawsuit is filed, as it could be viewed as an admission of guilt on behalf...
Based on experience, you shouldn't go changing obstacles immediately after a lawsuit is filed, as it could be viewed as an admission of guilt on behalf of the track. We always rotated our track designs, jumps, etc on a 2-3 month rotation and we had to fight this argument in court.

The plaintiff's attorney had an easy argument "They changed it because they knew it was a dangerous section of the track, so they are guilty of being negligent in their track design." Our response was that we changed track designs regularly and had proof of multiple massive track changes every couple of months and we weren't admitting guilt by changing the track. But we got scolded by our attorney for modifying the track in the mean time.
Huh?

1151. When, after the occurrence of an event, remedial or precautionary measures are taken, which, if taken previously, would have tended to make the event less likely to occur, evidence of such subsequent measures is inadmissible to prove negligence or culpable conduct in connection with the event.
Onecle › law › california › 1151
California Evidence Code Section 1151
KirkChandler
Profile picture for user KirkChandler
Posts
1678
Joined
7/31/2015
Location
Oceanside, CA, USA
KirkChandler 7/13/2017 8:38pm
7/13/2017 8:38pm
dkg wrote:
Huh? 1151. When, after the occurrence of an event, remedial or precautionary measures are taken, which, if taken previously, would have tended to make the event...
Huh?

1151. When, after the occurrence of an event, remedial or precautionary measures are taken, which, if taken previously, would have tended to make the event less likely to occur, evidence of such subsequent measures is inadmissible to prove negligence or culpable conduct in connection with the event.
Onecle › law › california › 1151
California Evidence Code Section 1151
Whelp they grilled us on it during the depositions and in court and I had to provide evidence that it was a normal occurrence to change track sections. The obstacle in my case was not a dangerous obstacle. Maybe they were trying to get me to say the obstacle was at fault.
kkawboy14
Profile picture for user kkawboy14
Posts
11486
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
USA
kkawboy14 7/14/2017 6:47am
7/14/2017 6:47am
FIREfish148 wrote:
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going...
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going to shoug for a while and has watched from the hp hillside knows how gnarly that section is and has seen their far share of riders wad right there. I just hope they don't take the s turns out completely. Maybe they will make it a sand pit or something? Lol
GuyB wrote:
How does someone cartwheeling off the ski jump affect the S turns?
Are the S turns right before the ski jump? It does seem a weird statement by the fish in this thread
TripleFive 7/14/2017 7:09am
7/14/2017 7:09am
KirkChandler wrote:
Whelp they grilled us on it during the depositions and in court and I had to provide evidence that it was a normal occurrence to change...
Whelp they grilled us on it during the depositions and in court and I had to provide evidence that it was a normal occurrence to change track sections. The obstacle in my case was not a dangerous obstacle. Maybe they were trying to get me to say the obstacle was at fault.
They were definitely trying to get you to say the obstacle was at fault.
Harvdog21
Profile picture for user Harvdog21
Posts
60
Joined
4/6/2015
Location
Roseville, CA, USA
Harvdog21 7/14/2017 8:19am
7/14/2017 8:19am
FIREfish148 wrote:
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going...
Wonder what they're going to do to adress the s turns situation? You know they're gonna have to change it now. Anyone who has been going to shoug for a while and has watched from the hp hillside knows how gnarly that section is and has seen their far share of riders wad right there. I just hope they don't take the s turns out completely. Maybe they will make it a sand pit or something? Lol
GuyB wrote:
How does someone cartwheeling off the ski jump affect the S turns?
kkawboy14 wrote:
Are the S turns right before the ski jump? It does seem a weird statement by the fish in this thread
The S turns are after the ski jump at the bottom of the hill. The ski jump is preceded by a downhill straightaway that has a tendency to get some gnarly braking bumps at the edge of the ski jump before you leap down. Also, there can be some wicked braking bumps just after you touch down from the landing. I've raced the amateur days there about 20 times and I'm always a bit cautious on my approach before the launch.

This obstacle is not particularly difficult, but not a good place to yardsale either. On pro day, there are spectators packed along the fences on both sides of the ski jump landing area and S turns.
kkawboy14
Profile picture for user kkawboy14
Posts
11486
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
USA
kkawboy14 7/14/2017 8:43am
7/14/2017 8:43am
GuyB wrote:
How does someone cartwheeling off the ski jump affect the S turns?
kkawboy14 wrote:
Are the S turns right before the ski jump? It does seem a weird statement by the fish in this thread
Harvdog21 wrote:
The S turns are after the ski jump at the bottom of the hill. The ski jump is preceded by a downhill straightaway that has a...
The S turns are after the ski jump at the bottom of the hill. The ski jump is preceded by a downhill straightaway that has a tendency to get some gnarly braking bumps at the edge of the ski jump before you leap down. Also, there can be some wicked braking bumps just after you touch down from the landing. I've raced the amateur days there about 20 times and I'm always a bit cautious on my approach before the launch.

This obstacle is not particularly difficult, but not a good place to yardsale either. On pro day, there are spectators packed along the fences on both sides of the ski jump landing area and S turns.
So basically that whole section needs to have a mid race tune up so that it is faster and easier Smile

Pit Row

See All »
slideways
Profile picture for user slideways
Posts
72
Joined
2/18/2019
Location
USA
slideways 2/18/2019 11:31pm
2/18/2019 11:31pm Edited Date/Time 2/18/2019 11:56pm
I remember hearing about Bruce’s injuries back in 14’, but this is the first I’ve heard of the lawsuit. After reading through these comments, the ‘original injury post’, and it’s comments, I’ve come to my own determination in favor of Washougal MX park... Bruce’s fellow ‘corner man’ or, watering partner, stated in the vital comments that he saw Bruce flexing for Guy B’s camera moments before the accident while wondering what he was doing before seeing that Guy was snapping a photo of him. He also stated that Bruce has always loved that spot on the track. Since it’s right in front of the beer garden he sprays the fans with water and they love it. Nothing personal against Bruce, but this tells me that he wasn’t being cautious and/or safely performing his track duty while standing in an extremely dangerous area of the track. Just my 2 pennies. I’m sure this has most likely been settled already...
KTMmarkus 2/19/2019 12:44am
2/19/2019 12:44am
SmokinJoe439 wrote:
Wow what you expect with today's sue happy make me rich world.
country*. The sue-mentality is pretty much an american disease.
7
1
acres951
Profile picture for user acres951
Posts
234
Joined
8/14/2016
Location
CA
acres951 2/19/2019 4:36am
2/19/2019 4:36am
SmokinJoe439 wrote:
Wow what you expect with today's sue happy make me rich world.
KTMmarkus wrote:
country*. The sue-mentality is pretty much an american disease.
Being a Canadian I always hear of this sue happy nature and it baffles me.

There’s no desire to have publicly funded healthcare but wouldn’t this limit these kind of lawsuits? I may be wrong.
2
1
tingo
Profile picture for user tingo
Posts
1195
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Orlando, FL, USA
tingo 2/19/2019 6:04am
2/19/2019 6:04am
SmokinJoe439 wrote:
Wow what you expect with today's sue happy make me rich world.
KTMmarkus wrote:
country*. The sue-mentality is pretty much an american disease.
Not really. Yes, we have that mentality here (see the “lime” thread as an example,) but there is a reason dashcams are hugely popular in other countries, and are just now catching on here.
2
Tarz483
Profile picture for user Tarz483
Posts
6344
Joined
2/25/2009
Location
Mankato, MN, USA
Tarz483 2/19/2019 8:19am
2/19/2019 8:19am
endurox wrote:
If everyone entering a given mx park was part owner, would this take care of the sue happy situation issue at mx parks?
Im sure it would help, but how would you set that up ?
SmokinJoe439
Profile picture for user SmokinJoe439
Posts
2402
Joined
3/7/2012
Location
Renton, WA, USA
SmokinJoe439 2/19/2019 8:25am
2/19/2019 8:25am
This is for anyone who hasn't been to the track lately noticed these changes lately towards the end of last year's season.

New signs everywhere around the track saying motosports are dangerous stay off the track. Taller chain link fences going up around the track. Like by the triple there was the like 6 foot high section of fence. About 3/4 from the top they attached another 10 foot tall section to it. I'm suspecting they will do this by the whoops section too and other areas.
Mr. Info
Profile picture for user Mr. Info
Posts
1671
Joined
5/3/2010
Location
Perris, CA, USA
Mr. Info 2/19/2019 8:43am
2/19/2019 8:43am
This lawsuit was brought on by the Insurance company to recover cost incurred and a sum for Mr. Barnes. These go on for a few years as some of the defendants are released as being liable. What will happen is they will reach an out of court settlement and I bet the insurance company attorney will see more money than Bruce will.
CR250Rider
Profile picture for user CR250Rider
Posts
6706
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Moses Lake, WA, USA
CR250Rider 2/19/2019 9:00am
2/19/2019 9:00am Edited Date/Time 2/19/2019 9:01am
Without some kind of insurance, who the fuck would EVER want to be a track worker? You'd have to be a total idiot to agree to that! And a volunteer to boot? SMH
kaptkaos
Profile picture for user kaptkaos
Posts
1087
Joined
11/17/2015
Location
Miami, FL, USA
kaptkaos 2/19/2019 10:12am
2/19/2019 10:12am
JustMX wrote:
This would most likely happen every time a flagger stepped out into the track and got hit "doing his job" like some of you think they...

This would most likely happen every time a flagger stepped out into the track and got hit "doing his job" like some of you think they should be expected to do.

When someone is looking at mounting medical expenses and/or losing everything they have worked for, they are going to contact an attorney, and that attorney is going to do what an attorney does. They are going to go over the top on claims and be a buzzing gnat of a nuisance until they get a settlement.
I dont blame him for going after any medical expenses that his health insurance did not cover. Lets also not forget that its very possible he lost 6 months of work or more and may face some permanent disabilities. This is what insurance is for.
jeffro503
Profile picture for user jeffro503
Posts
27645
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR, USA
jeffro503 2/19/2019 10:46am
2/19/2019 10:46am
I haven't heard one way or another on what the final outcome was with this , but I hadn't really asked around either. At first I was kinda miffed with Bruce , but I also know it wasn't all his own doing , going after Washougal mx. The insurance company was main culprit here , and just like any insurance Co. , they'll try and get money out of anyone they can. Bruce and the entire Barne's family have been around for as long as I can remember , and are good people. I miss hearing Brian's voice over the loud speaker around here as well. The whole thing is a shit show ( the case in point ). I've never agreed with anyone ever suing a track if they are riding and get hurt. " Flagging? "......it's tough for me to take a stance on this either way , and can see argument's from both sides. In the end , hopefully everything and everyone can come to an agreement / understanding , and move on. Maybe they already have , I don't know.
Tracktor
Profile picture for user Tracktor
Posts
2343
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
The RTF/Amboy, WA, USA
Tracktor 2/19/2019 11:02am
2/19/2019 11:02am
Here is the history -

Court Records

I'm not sure what it all means. I can ask a few people I know to see though.....I get a feeling from what I was hearing there was probably a settlement but can't say for sure...........
craigathan404
Profile picture for user craigathan404
Posts
744
Joined
5/2/2017
Location
Oregon City, OR, USA
craigathan404 2/19/2019 11:29am
2/19/2019 11:29am
I remember being there that year but not seeing the incident. Wasn’t there a longer than usual delay between the concelation race and the Motos because of it? I remember waiting for what seemed like forever then hearing on the PA what had happened.

Post a reply to: Washougal MX being sued---