Washougal MX being sued---

FreshTopEnd
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7/12/2017 10:26am
kkawboy14 wrote:
I have never heard of hospitalization policy insurance suing someone. As in Blue Cross Blue Shield......have you guys? I get that Geico would if it was...
I have never heard of hospitalization policy insurance suing someone. As in Blue Cross Blue Shield......have you guys?

I get that Geico would if it was 2 vehicles and fault was due to the other guy.
I have. And even if he filed the suit, an insurer or hospital creditor would put a preemptive lien on any recovery.

Beyond that answer to Scott, people should stop talking about assumption of risk and the effectiveness of releases as if they know what they are talking about.
zehn
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7/12/2017 10:41am
I have. And even if he filed the suit, an insurer or hospital creditor would put a preemptive lien on any recovery. Beyond that answer to...
I have. And even if he filed the suit, an insurer or hospital creditor would put a preemptive lien on any recovery.

Beyond that answer to Scott, people should stop talking about assumption of risk and the effectiveness of releases as if they know what they are talking about.
Everybody is a lawyer on the internet
FreshTopEnd
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7/12/2017 10:50am
Oddly enough, the ABA spammed me this am with a webinar on "Social Media and Web-Content Evidence for Personal Injury Litigators"....
TeamGreen
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7/12/2017 11:05am
Oddly enough, the ABA spammed me this am with a webinar on "Social Media and Web-Content Evidence for Personal Injury Litigators"....
I know that you know I'm jus' being a joker...but...every-damn-time I see this "Lawsuit" crap...that Eagle's tune runs thru my head...

"Old Billy was right: let's kill all the lawyers - kill 'em tonight"...as stolen from Shakespeare.

Any-hoo, thanks for putting it out there on the releases and such.

C U at the races!

The Shop

kkawboy14
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7/12/2017 11:06am
kkawboy14 wrote:
I have never heard of hospitalization policy insurance suing someone. As in Blue Cross Blue Shield......have you guys? I get that Geico would if it was...
I have never heard of hospitalization policy insurance suing someone. As in Blue Cross Blue Shield......have you guys?

I get that Geico would if it was 2 vehicles and fault was due to the other guy.
I have. And even if he filed the suit, an insurer or hospital creditor would put a preemptive lien on any recovery. Beyond that answer to...
I have. And even if he filed the suit, an insurer or hospital creditor would put a preemptive lien on any recovery.

Beyond that answer to Scott, people should stop talking about assumption of risk and the effectiveness of releases as if they know what they are talking about.
Is that pretty common that a hospitalization company would push a lawsuit? That's what that article states that they could lean an individuals lawsuit.

FreshTopEnd
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7/12/2017 11:49am
Oddly enough, the ABA spammed me this am with a webinar on "Social Media and Web-Content Evidence for Personal Injury Litigators"....
TeamGreen wrote:
I know that you know I'm jus' being a joker...but...every-damn-time I see this "Lawsuit" crap...that Eagle's tune runs thru my head... "Old Billy was right: let's...
I know that you know I'm jus' being a joker...but...every-damn-time I see this "Lawsuit" crap...that Eagle's tune runs thru my head...

"Old Billy was right: let's kill all the lawyers - kill 'em tonight"...as stolen from Shakespeare.

Any-hoo, thanks for putting it out there on the releases and such.

C U at the races!
The thing to remember about that Shakespeare quote is that it is from a couple of rogues discussing plans to disrupt order and society. But yeah nobody likes lawyers.
FreshTopEnd
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7/12/2017 12:00pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
I have never heard of hospitalization policy insurance suing someone. As in Blue Cross Blue Shield......have you guys? I get that Geico would if it was...
I have never heard of hospitalization policy insurance suing someone. As in Blue Cross Blue Shield......have you guys?

I get that Geico would if it was 2 vehicles and fault was due to the other guy.
I have. And even if he filed the suit, an insurer or hospital creditor would put a preemptive lien on any recovery. Beyond that answer to...
I have. And even if he filed the suit, an insurer or hospital creditor would put a preemptive lien on any recovery.

Beyond that answer to Scott, people should stop talking about assumption of risk and the effectiveness of releases as if they know what they are talking about.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Is that pretty common that a hospitalization company would push a lawsuit? That's what that article states that they could lean an individuals lawsuit.

I think these things go in waves. Some CFO asks why they're leaving that money uncollected and orders someone out to do it, and then after the blood settles and the bills come in it's why are we doing this? And there can be different cultures at different places. Fortunately I don't deal with this area of the law much. I'd much rather we were a no fault insurance country, but the lobbies against that, including PI lawyers, resist that. Determining and allocating responsibility imposes enormous friction (i.e., costs) on the process.

Tracktor
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7/12/2017 12:19pm
I have. And even if he filed the suit, an insurer or hospital creditor would put a preemptive lien on any recovery. Beyond that answer to...
I have. And even if he filed the suit, an insurer or hospital creditor would put a preemptive lien on any recovery.

Beyond that answer to Scott, people should stop talking about assumption of risk and the effectiveness of releases as if they know what they are talking about.
I fully admit I don't understand the technical side of all this- The biggest question is I have is how to tell who is actually behind a lawsuit? If it's an insurance company behind it wouldn't there name also be on the filing? I want to know which insurance companies are prone to this behavior if that is the case here. I have a personal interest in knowing this in regards to risk exposure on my own track...........
p0wn
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7/12/2017 12:29pm
I don't think the insurance company would hire a scumbag lawyer from the area. I'd expect them to have their own in house team with which they deal with all of their affairs. I suspect the dude is trying to cash out. American Dream - Sue people. Disgusting.
APLMAN99
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7/12/2017 12:42pm
p0wn wrote:
I don't think the insurance company would hire a scumbag lawyer from the area. I'd expect them to have their own in house team with which...
I don't think the insurance company would hire a scumbag lawyer from the area. I'd expect them to have their own in house team with which they deal with all of their affairs. I suspect the dude is trying to cash out. American Dream - Sue people. Disgusting.
Insurance companies would definitely contract out things like this. Their in house team wouldn't be sent out to every little county courthouse in the country, especially to attend one or two hour proceedings over the course of months and years.
DoctorJD
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7/12/2017 12:42pm
Landshark wrote:
That level of liability doesn't warrant a lawsuit. Cheaper to settle than challenge.
"Cheaper to settle than challenge."

I've been in the retail/construction supply/hardware business for most of my life. There have been two occasions where the above statement has rung very true.

Back in the late 80's one of our delivery trucks was involved in a wreck. A wrong-way driver hit our delivery truck head-on injuring the driver and two passengers. The (wrong way) driver was driving with a suspended license (from prior DUI arrests). Our delivery driver did absolutely nothing wrong and was cleared of any wrongdoing in the police report.

A few months later, the wife of one of the passengers of the wrong-way pickup sued us citing, "emotional pain and suffering" since her husband could no longer (allegedly) perform in bed. Our insurance company settled out of court for over $20,000. Why? Because it was cheaper to settle than challenge.

Just last year, a lady walked into our store and saw our store cat lounging on the counter. She lost her shit and fell down trying to run out of the store. She claimed that she was deathly afraid of cats. Kitty cats. The cat didn't do anything, it was just laying there. Well, about four months later, I get a call from that lady asking for money for, "pain and suffering" saying that she messed her back up when she fell down. I told her to pound sand. She sued.

In a discussion with the insurance adjuster, he told me that they'd end up settling, it simply wasn't worth the fight. The only bright spot was that it would only be for a few thousand, and her lawyer would get most of it.

People will follow the money. In the case of the wreck, the deadbeat driver didn't have shit, so who did they go after? The individual with the most money.



dkg
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7/12/2017 12:46pm
Since everyone is involved in speculation here, I'll join in. A good question that arises is if the individual performing flagging duties is covered under Worker's Compensation or is an excluded volunteer. I can see some good reasons the track, etc. might want to make sure that the flaggers are covered by WC. Doing so would preclude most suits by injured flaggers against the track. The trade off being the cost of the WC insurance and all the payroll hassles, etc.

http://www.lni.wa.gov/ClaimsIns/Insurance/Learn/Volunteers/

As for the actual suit, it seems most likely that the flagger is in fact suing for his personal injuries, medical expenses, loss earnings, pain and suffering, etc. I can only speculate as to why the suit is being brought, it may be an absence of health insurance or overwhelming medical expenses are the motivation. Highly unlikely that it is an Insurance Company forcing the flagger to sue as it is not being brought by the company as a subrogation claim. Generally the Insurance company only has a lien against whatever the individual recovers meaning they get paid out of a settlement. I am not aware of any State where someone can be forced to sue.

But heck, this is just speculation like everyone else.
FreshTopEnd
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7/12/2017 12:48pm
Tracktor wrote:
I fully admit I don't understand the technical side of all this- The biggest question is I have is how to tell who is actually behind...
I fully admit I don't understand the technical side of all this- The biggest question is I have is how to tell who is actually behind a lawsuit? If it's an insurance company behind it wouldn't there name also be on the filing? I want to know which insurance companies are prone to this behavior if that is the case here. I have a personal interest in knowing this in regards to risk exposure on my own track...........
I think the best resource for sifting coverage and other issues is hooking up with a good independent broker, all the better if the person is involved with motorsports to match with a good insurer or syndicate. There can be suites of services available beyond simple coverage (vetting forms of release for example).
kkawboy14
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7/12/2017 1:01pm Edited Date/Time 7/12/2017 1:07pm
I have. And even if he filed the suit, an insurer or hospital creditor would put a preemptive lien on any recovery. Beyond that answer to...
I have. And even if he filed the suit, an insurer or hospital creditor would put a preemptive lien on any recovery.

Beyond that answer to Scott, people should stop talking about assumption of risk and the effectiveness of releases as if they know what they are talking about.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Is that pretty common that a hospitalization company would push a lawsuit? That's what that article states that they could lean an individuals lawsuit.

I think these things go in waves. Some CFO asks why they're leaving that money uncollected and orders someone out to do it, and then after...
I think these things go in waves. Some CFO asks why they're leaving that money uncollected and orders someone out to do it, and then after the blood settles and the bills come in it's why are we doing this? And there can be different cultures at different places. Fortunately I don't deal with this area of the law much. I'd much rather we were a no fault insurance country, but the lobbies against that, including PI lawyers, resist that. Determining and allocating responsibility imposes enormous friction (i.e., costs) on the process.

Interesting, thanks!

I wonder if the guy being Canadian adds a twist!
JustMX
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7/12/2017 4:23pm
How could the insurance company have any claim to any award that is not specifically medical expense reimbursement?
APLMAN99
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7/12/2017 5:03pm
JustMX wrote:
How could the insurance company have any claim to any award that is not specifically medical expense reimbursement?
If the other party was found to be liable, the first thing that they'd be liable for would be actual costs of treatment. Lost income would probably be next, then pain and suffering perhaps. Punitive damages aren't all that common.
Bearuno
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7/12/2017 7:58pm
Oddly enough, the ABA spammed me this am with a webinar on "Social Media and Web-Content Evidence for Personal Injury Litigators"....
TeamGreen wrote:
I know that you know I'm jus' being a joker...but...every-damn-time I see this "Lawsuit" crap...that Eagle's tune runs thru my head... "Old Billy was right: let's...
I know that you know I'm jus' being a joker...but...every-damn-time I see this "Lawsuit" crap...that Eagle's tune runs thru my head...

"Old Billy was right: let's kill all the lawyers - kill 'em tonight"...as stolen from Shakespeare.

Any-hoo, thanks for putting it out there on the releases and such.

C U at the races!
The thing to remember about that Shakespeare quote is that it is from a couple of rogues discussing plans to disrupt order and society. But yeah...
The thing to remember about that Shakespeare quote is that it is from a couple of rogues discussing plans to disrupt order and society. But yeah nobody likes lawyers.
Yes, taken in one context, Shakespeare is putting lawyers as an important part of society - kill'em all, and you'll have chaos.

But he also knew of the dislike most people had for them, and the comedic value of suggesting their wholesale demise. Clever man, was Will.
dean122
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7/12/2017 9:18pm
pilotdude wrote:
Bruce and I have worked the S turns at the national for a long time. I was there the day this happened. I just saw him...
Bruce and I have worked the S turns at the national for a long time. I was there the day this happened. I just saw him today at Moutain View practice and talked with him about this situation, and have been privy to pretty much everything from the get go. What I will say is that the vast majority of people here have virtually no information, yet are making huge assumptions about both the situation and the man himself.
He was at an MX practice today knowing the risks of MX'ers going out of control and possibly losing control of their ill prepared MX bikes and or track conditions? I would think the last thing someone with a lawsuit against an MX track would be hanging out at an MX track. Am we missing something here?!
Rockinar
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7/12/2017 10:21pm
I'm betting he got back to Canada and got to taste the "free" healthcare system and decided he was not a fan of what he was told and given. Plan B is sue and get treated in America by their "Shitty" system.
jeffro503
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7/12/2017 11:08pm
pilotdude wrote:
Bruce and I have worked the S turns at the national for a long time. I was there the day this happened. I just saw him...
Bruce and I have worked the S turns at the national for a long time. I was there the day this happened. I just saw him today at Moutain View practice and talked with him about this situation, and have been privy to pretty much everything from the get go. What I will say is that the vast majority of people here have virtually no information, yet are making huge assumptions about both the situation and the man himself.
dean122 wrote:
He was at an MX practice today knowing the risks of MX'ers going out of control and possibly losing control of their ill prepared MX bikes...
He was at an MX practice today knowing the risks of MX'ers going out of control and possibly losing control of their ill prepared MX bikes and or track conditions? I would think the last thing someone with a lawsuit against an MX track would be hanging out at an MX track. Am we missing something here?!
Tuesday AND Wednesday.
APLMAN99
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7/13/2017 6:04am
I think a lot of folks are probably comparing this to the RC16 saga, but so far at least, Barnes hasn't come onto an mx focused discussion board and rationalized why everyone involved was at fault but him. He hasn't talked about how the suit was to save his credit rating, how it will enable him to buy a bigger boat, etc.

I just have a hunch that this is far more insurance company driven than that one was.......

Could be wrong, and I'm sure that more information will come out over time.
pilotdude
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7/13/2017 6:43am
pilotdude wrote:
Bruce and I have worked the S turns at the national for a long time. I was there the day this happened. I just saw him...
Bruce and I have worked the S turns at the national for a long time. I was there the day this happened. I just saw him today at Moutain View practice and talked with him about this situation, and have been privy to pretty much everything from the get go. What I will say is that the vast majority of people here have virtually no information, yet are making huge assumptions about both the situation and the man himself.
dean122 wrote:
He was at an MX practice today knowing the risks of MX'ers going out of control and possibly losing control of their ill prepared MX bikes...
He was at an MX practice today knowing the risks of MX'ers going out of control and possibly losing control of their ill prepared MX bikes and or track conditions? I would think the last thing someone with a lawsuit against an MX track would be hanging out at an MX track. Am we missing something here?!
jeffro503 wrote:
Tuesday AND Wednesday.
Yes, you are missing something here.
7/13/2017 7:03am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2017 7:16am
Tracktor wrote:
I fully admit I don't understand the technical side of all this- The biggest question is I have is how to tell who is actually behind...
I fully admit I don't understand the technical side of all this- The biggest question is I have is how to tell who is actually behind a lawsuit? If it's an insurance company behind it wouldn't there name also be on the filing? I want to know which insurance companies are prone to this behavior if that is the case here. I have a personal interest in knowing this in regards to risk exposure on my own track...........
Several years ago, a local MX track (Daniel Boone) had at least two lawsuits pending. After some discussion with the owner (Jerry Hebel) and learning the details (insurance companies were forcing the lawsuits), I encouraged anyone in our group (if possible) to change from their MX clothes before arriving at the ER. A couple of years later, I (almost) experienced the same process. I had a major tib/fib break at Ballance MX. My explanation to the ER nurse was that I jumped from one bank to another, misjudged the distance, and landed wrong. Later, I had to fill out a detailed explanation for insurance. Again, I didn't lie, but I didn't provide any additional information. Example: Location of injury: Exit off of I-64 near Bowling Green, KY. After that, I received a call from an insurance representative (Blue Cross/Blue Shield) that said they felt that there was a third party that they needed "..to contact to seek restitution for my medical bills." (I assume she meant the land owner.) I told her that it happened near a federal road, so she would probably need to contact a federal representative. That was the end of it. However, if I had provided detailed information, I feel almost certain that I would have been "that azzhole that sued the track."

jeffro503
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7/13/2017 7:50am
dean122 wrote:
He was at an MX practice today knowing the risks of MX'ers going out of control and possibly losing control of their ill prepared MX bikes...
He was at an MX practice today knowing the risks of MX'ers going out of control and possibly losing control of their ill prepared MX bikes and or track conditions? I would think the last thing someone with a lawsuit against an MX track would be hanging out at an MX track. Am we missing something here?!
jeffro503 wrote:
Tuesday AND Wednesday.
pilotdude wrote:
Yes, you are missing something here.
Prepping for Loretta's?
BigDaddyG
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7/13/2017 7:54am
Several years ago, a local MX track (Daniel Boone) had at least two lawsuits pending. After some discussion with the owner (Jerry Hebel) and learning the...
Several years ago, a local MX track (Daniel Boone) had at least two lawsuits pending. After some discussion with the owner (Jerry Hebel) and learning the details (insurance companies were forcing the lawsuits), I encouraged anyone in our group (if possible) to change from their MX clothes before arriving at the ER. A couple of years later, I (almost) experienced the same process. I had a major tib/fib break at Ballance MX. My explanation to the ER nurse was that I jumped from one bank to another, misjudged the distance, and landed wrong. Later, I had to fill out a detailed explanation for insurance. Again, I didn't lie, but I didn't provide any additional information. Example: Location of injury: Exit off of I-64 near Bowling Green, KY. After that, I received a call from an insurance representative (Blue Cross/Blue Shield) that said they felt that there was a third party that they needed "..to contact to seek restitution for my medical bills." (I assume she meant the land owner.) I told her that it happened near a federal road, so she would probably need to contact a federal representative. That was the end of it. However, if I had provided detailed information, I feel almost certain that I would have been "that azzhole that sued the track."

I had something similar happen....riding at a friends house I crashed and broke a few ribs. He has a nice little track and was a great place to go ride. Anywho, I got new boots, mis-shifted on the face of a jump and pile drove myself into the face of the 2nd jump.

Go to the hospital and, being honest I say what happened.....the insurance company called me several times trying to get his information from me to go after his home owners insurance company. I told them there is no way I would let them know where I was riding, 2 broken ribs isn't going to break the bank and if I had to I would pay the whole thing out of pocket before I tell them his information. It wasn't his fault, I was the one controlling the bike and well, shit happens!

I know Bruce's injuries were way worse than mine and he damn near died. So I could imagine that his expenses paid by insurance was several hundred grand at the least. Given that, I can totally see the insurance company going after the track to re-coup those costs, its just what they do. From what I have been told Bruce didnt' want this to happen and the insurance is driving this, he has no choice or say in the matter.

Not sticking up for him at all, I think this whole thing is BS, and part of me wants to believe that he isn't spearheading this and that his hands are tied. But the way that article was written it sure seemed like he had a large hand in it.

The Huffmans are a kick ass family and run a tight ship up there. Ryan has been on point and really has poured his heart and soul into that place and its good to see. They by no means would intentionally put someone in harms way, thats not them. And to go after the rider? Thats just freaking insane!!!!!
kkawboy14
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7/13/2017 8:23am
Several years ago, a local MX track (Daniel Boone) had at least two lawsuits pending. After some discussion with the owner (Jerry Hebel) and learning the...
Several years ago, a local MX track (Daniel Boone) had at least two lawsuits pending. After some discussion with the owner (Jerry Hebel) and learning the details (insurance companies were forcing the lawsuits), I encouraged anyone in our group (if possible) to change from their MX clothes before arriving at the ER. A couple of years later, I (almost) experienced the same process. I had a major tib/fib break at Ballance MX. My explanation to the ER nurse was that I jumped from one bank to another, misjudged the distance, and landed wrong. Later, I had to fill out a detailed explanation for insurance. Again, I didn't lie, but I didn't provide any additional information. Example: Location of injury: Exit off of I-64 near Bowling Green, KY. After that, I received a call from an insurance representative (Blue Cross/Blue Shield) that said they felt that there was a third party that they needed "..to contact to seek restitution for my medical bills." (I assume she meant the land owner.) I told her that it happened near a federal road, so she would probably need to contact a federal representative. That was the end of it. However, if I had provided detailed information, I feel almost certain that I would have been "that azzhole that sued the track."

BigDaddyG wrote:
I had something similar happen....riding at a friends house I crashed and broke a few ribs. He has a nice little track and was a great...
I had something similar happen....riding at a friends house I crashed and broke a few ribs. He has a nice little track and was a great place to go ride. Anywho, I got new boots, mis-shifted on the face of a jump and pile drove myself into the face of the 2nd jump.

Go to the hospital and, being honest I say what happened.....the insurance company called me several times trying to get his information from me to go after his home owners insurance company. I told them there is no way I would let them know where I was riding, 2 broken ribs isn't going to break the bank and if I had to I would pay the whole thing out of pocket before I tell them his information. It wasn't his fault, I was the one controlling the bike and well, shit happens!

I know Bruce's injuries were way worse than mine and he damn near died. So I could imagine that his expenses paid by insurance was several hundred grand at the least. Given that, I can totally see the insurance company going after the track to re-coup those costs, its just what they do. From what I have been told Bruce didnt' want this to happen and the insurance is driving this, he has no choice or say in the matter.

Not sticking up for him at all, I think this whole thing is BS, and part of me wants to believe that he isn't spearheading this and that his hands are tied. But the way that article was written it sure seemed like he had a large hand in it.

The Huffmans are a kick ass family and run a tight ship up there. Ryan has been on point and really has poured his heart and soul into that place and its good to see. They by no means would intentionally put someone in harms way, thats not them. And to go after the rider? Thats just freaking insane!!!!!
Unless this is fake news, the article is pretty clear that he is suing them! Which is why some of the comments in this thread have that leaning



WhipMeister
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7/13/2017 8:50am
mxtech1 wrote:
Can anyone answer ???? If the insurance company of Barnes is the driving force behind the claims filed, don't they still need consent from Barnes to...
Can anyone answer ????

If the insurance company of Barnes is the driving force behind the claims filed, don't they still need consent from Barnes to proceed in order to make claims on his behalf to seek compensation from the financial damages?

If Barnes said "hell no you aren't suing Washougal MX" can the insurance company still bring a case to the table?

I know the guy is Core and has been around for decades, but people make decisions that a very, very hard when debts start to arise, so much to the point they might be financially crippling. The guy went through some devastating injuries, lengthy hospital stays, and probably couldn't work for a long time. Even if he was trying to recover some costs to get himself out from underneath from the mountain of medical debt, I feel he has a right to do so.

Just because he was a volunteer does not negate Washougal from their obligations to keep people safe and injury free. That includes racers, crew members, fans, volunteers, etc. This might be treated like many other workplace injuries.
You give consent when you purchase the policy. "SUBROGATION" clause.
kkawboy14
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7/13/2017 9:07am
mxtech1 wrote:
Can anyone answer ???? If the insurance company of Barnes is the driving force behind the claims filed, don't they still need consent from Barnes to...
Can anyone answer ????

If the insurance company of Barnes is the driving force behind the claims filed, don't they still need consent from Barnes to proceed in order to make claims on his behalf to seek compensation from the financial damages?

If Barnes said "hell no you aren't suing Washougal MX" can the insurance company still bring a case to the table?

I know the guy is Core and has been around for decades, but people make decisions that a very, very hard when debts start to arise, so much to the point they might be financially crippling. The guy went through some devastating injuries, lengthy hospital stays, and probably couldn't work for a long time. Even if he was trying to recover some costs to get himself out from underneath from the mountain of medical debt, I feel he has a right to do so.

Just because he was a volunteer does not negate Washougal from their obligations to keep people safe and injury free. That includes racers, crew members, fans, volunteers, etc. This might be treated like many other workplace injuries.
You give consent when you purchase the policy. "SUBROGATION" clause.
Would the news report say that the insurance company filed the suit in his behalf if the insurance chose the subrogation route?
sclark309d
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7/13/2017 9:48am
TJ 755 wrote:
I'm sure its his insurance company. And no, dont say fuck Bruce. He is as moto as they come. We raced as kids and he and...
I'm sure its his insurance company. And no, dont say fuck Bruce. He is as moto as they come. We raced as kids and he and his brother barney are core. He has worked that corner for 20 plus years
Hey neighbor! (also in North Bend)
Elite
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USA, WA US
7/13/2017 9:51am
jeffro503 wrote:
Tuesday AND Wednesday.
I'm surprised he even would want to go to a track right now and face scrutiny. He has to be getting evil eyed and unwelcoming vibes?

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