Advice: '16 KTM 250sx or '16 YZ250 2 stroke

EEE299
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5/4/2016 4:25am
Get a TM they said...
It will be fun they said...

But really you have to be rich or a dumb to buy a TM in most parts of the states. Definitely need to be located near a dealer too.

As far as the yz vs sx, I went with the yz for cheaper parts/maintenance. It was a little different for me though cause I was looking at 2011-2013 bikes and I'm under the impression KTM has gotten better with reliability even in the last few years. I came off a 2009 ktm200 and that thing was such a pain to maintain. I will say if I was you, the 2017 sx would be very tempting.
mmain62
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5/4/2016 5:06am
shanes wrote:
get yourself a 2016 TM 250 / 300 TM usa have them , every that has has risen mine cant believe how good the engine and...
get yourself a 2016 TM 250 / 300 TM usa have them , every that has has risen mine cant believe how good the engine and handling is , best build quality on the market and you will stand out at the track as no one else will have one

Jrewing wrote:
What he said.
Didn't ping just say the TM 2 strokes were horrible besides the 144 or whatever. I remember hearing him bash them on PULPMX
dedi684
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5/4/2016 6:14am
I was not happy with the 4cs forks even after a bunch of work. Not a fan of air forks either
BobPA
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5/4/2016 6:50am
Suspension is 99% why I am on a yz250. SSS just works. I can add power with reeds, fuel, head work etc. having suspension that works...
Suspension is 99% why I am on a yz250.

SSS just works. I can add power with reeds, fuel, head work etc. having suspension that works out of the box is real nice!
Ergonomics is what ruins it for me with YZ's. The suspension was good, but the bike just felt wrong to me...a few of my friends have them and I won't even hop on one anymore. They need quite a bit of work to be comparable to the old KTM engine design...I can only imagine how great the new one will be.

The Shop

5/4/2016 6:59am
Used yz 08 or newer. Or 17 Ktm after it's been reviewed by MXA
gharmon
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5/4/2016 7:06am
Are the ktm 2 strokes electric start?
macz400
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5/4/2016 7:10am
KTM will release all news (images, specs) about their 2017 lineup sometime in the middle of this month online. Bikes won't be in dealerships until around July.
gharmon
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5/4/2016 7:17am
Are the ktm 2 strokes electric start?
ratonmacias
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5/4/2016 8:05am
gharmon wrote:
Are the ktm 2 strokes electric start?
the xc and enduro yes. i dont know if the new sx will have it. the 2016 sx isnt e start.
5/4/2016 8:58am
Suspension is 99% why I am on a yz250. SSS just works. I can add power with reeds, fuel, head work etc. having suspension that works...
Suspension is 99% why I am on a yz250.

SSS just works. I can add power with reeds, fuel, head work etc. having suspension that works out of the box is real nice!
exactly you can always make a yz faster and after you do? the suspension can still keep up -
reeds broaden power and an extra tooth on the rear makes third gear longer then add a pipe for bling! And you're off!

I'm no pro test rider, I mainly ride mx but I ride woods sometimes and I've tried a couple different YZ pipe and silencer combos ! Stock pipe with aftermarket silencer and stock silencer with aftermarket pipe etc... the silencer might make a small difference but the pipe might make more hp on a dyno but it's really just for the bling - it's like the cherry on top of owning a 2stroke is that you 'get' to put a pipe on it!

At least KTM's stock pipe isn't black !!
That's where the YZ lacks!

The YZ gives you strong rims and its as close to being works like suspended that the average guy can get off a showroom floor

If you're an average guy and You want to test your suspension tuners honesty & integrity ?

Go in with your brand spanking new ' YZ250 SSS suspension ' even your 10 pounds over weight ! And ask your tuner if you should touch them?

the 2015 MXA two stroke shoot out was won by the (basically the 2006 YZ 250 with the 2005 motor) 2015 YZ250.

in 2016 MXA can't give it to Yamaha again ! Husky and KTM have put on such a push in development I expect 2017 KTM to be even better! The KTM rider loves the power and the frame flex! It's harder to dial the suspension but once you do? it's the superior bike but without the YZ reliability! I got to ride a properly set up 2016 sx last week and yeah it's a pleasure to ride! But I also know guys who still struggled with setting up the KTM's even with aftermarket suspension! BUT If you bleed orange? or blue? You're pretty hard to have a conversation with about it lol

The KTM is basically race ready off the showroom floor ! It has everything you can dream of! It needs nothing but suspension! But the frame has flex and SSS components don't directly cross over! A couple people I know have done this!
And what I've learned from watching them is ... when you put KILLER suspension on your KTM ? and you're your own R&D department / which is cool because KTM makes race bikes for racers!

The Average guy resonates with what's going on @ Yamaha where (MXA says) a 100 engineers put in a 1000 hours and categorically state that they cannot build a better two-stroke - the suspension that has been spec'd for the YZ is enough of a gift for the consumer to MAKE him want to go out and buy the Hinson clutch and the aftermarket pipe / reeds / sprockets,chain,chain guide, water pump propeller etc.. But once you do ? (Everything but head work!!!)
You got a super reliable bike in a YZ.

ON STOCK Woods bikes YZ motors IVE SEEN 600++++++ hours !!! No shit!

So I always suggest (not doing that lol) just pimp out your YZ!

...but don't do motor work until you ride it !

If you can ride a properly geared YZ 250 with good tires as fast as it can go? then? You're a pro level rider or a fucking animal! I know people like that ! It's not big deal ! If you're an animal? a port and polished motor will give you a little bit more - especially off the start and at top peak rpm! But to accesses that power ? You have to be able to surf the power band! Not just touch it!
You make engines sing!
They last 8 hours!
If you're that guy ?
KTM ? YZ ?
don't matter

You need a race bike!


The average guy should buy the YZ 250 imo

It's reliable and jetted properly right off the showroom floor , though it's not race spec'd ! You can no problem race the stock bike straight off the showroom floor ! The throttle responds and the suspension works so well you don't even need to touch a clicker and you can be overweight , case a triple and ride away not having bottomed out! (KTM riders minds blown hahaha)

It's funny what the KTM rider deals with until its finally the best bike !! Whereas the YZ rider is just trying to make great - Better! From day one! But in its 11 year old carcass, sadly it'll never be the be #1 again

Both bikes can be better!

Hope this helps your decision
PC
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5/4/2016 9:20am Edited Date/Time 5/4/2016 9:21am
BobPA wrote:
Ergonomics is what ruins it for me with YZ's. The suspension was good, but the bike just felt wrong to me...a few of my friends have...
Ergonomics is what ruins it for me with YZ's. The suspension was good, but the bike just felt wrong to me...a few of my friends have them and I won't even hop on one anymore. They need quite a bit of work to be comparable to the old KTM engine design...I can only imagine how great the new one will be.
Same for me. Bought an 06' brand new and hung onto it for 8 years, but never really enjoyed how it felt. They're great bikes, but the ergos, weak front brake and stiff chassis didn't work for me.

I'm now on an Italian Husky 125 and a KTM 500, both of which I gelled with much better than I ever did the YZ.
nascarnate326
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5/4/2016 10:35am Edited Date/Time 5/4/2016 10:35am
Suspension is 99% why I am on a yz250. SSS just works. I can add power with reeds, fuel, head work etc. having suspension that works...
Suspension is 99% why I am on a yz250.

SSS just works. I can add power with reeds, fuel, head work etc. having suspension that works out of the box is real nice!
BobPA wrote:
Ergonomics is what ruins it for me with YZ's. The suspension was good, but the bike just felt wrong to me...a few of my friends have...
Ergonomics is what ruins it for me with YZ's. The suspension was good, but the bike just felt wrong to me...a few of my friends have them and I won't even hop on one anymore. They need quite a bit of work to be comparable to the old KTM engine design...I can only imagine how great the new one will be.
Ill admit that the ergos are a little goofy.

When you buy a YZ250 you should have a couple hundred dollars just to spend making it just right for you, I do this on pretty much every bike because I am tall. Some risers, grips, new brake pads, fresh oil, levers, clutch cable, etc and its a easy way to make a older bike (2010 for me) feel like brand new..while spending thousands less than a 2016.

Bar risers, grips, and levers really made the difference for me.
race
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5/4/2016 11:19am
As has been mentioned several times ... YZ has the best suspension, KTM has the hot motor.

It is just a lot easier and cheaper to bump up the YZ engine than to try to get the KTM suspension anywhere near the YZ's SSS suspension. Plus the KTMs are very sensitive to setup. My friends that have them are always dicking around with settings trying to balance the front and back, etc. On the YZ I rarely make changes.

Not sure how the prices stack up with either bike but I would guess the KTM is more $.

The plus of an older design is there aren't any question marks. Everything has been worked out / fixed. The YZ is an extremely reliable bike at this point.



YZ125H1
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5/4/2016 12:36pm Edited Date/Time 5/4/2016 12:39pm
What surprises me about the KTM is how badly they come jetted from the factory. Not to mention a 36mm carb on a 250 2T what were they thinking? Not sure if they still have the OEM pipe cracking issue fixed yet either. Both bikes are good each have flaws I would wait out for the 2017 KTM 250SX though.
FGR01
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Fantasy
5/4/2016 12:41pm
YZ125H1 wrote:
What surprises me about the KTM is how badly they come jetted from the factory. Not to mention a 36mm carb on a 250 2T what...
What surprises me about the KTM is how badly they come jetted from the factory. Not to mention a 36mm carb on a 250 2T what were they thinking? Not sure if they still have the OEM pipe cracking issue fixed yet either. Both bikes are good each have flaws I would wait out for the 2017 KTM 250SX though.
Exactly. KTM lover quote "the KTM has superior components and is a much more developed bike.. ready to race right out the crate..." (said as owner is installing 38mm carb with Suzuki needle and trying to decide between Ohlins suspension or a YZ fork transplant)
Dirtysmile56
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5/4/2016 1:21pm
YZ250F

Thank me later
I already have a '15 KX250f I want to start smoking again lol.....
Motofinne
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5/4/2016 1:23pm
I'll say this to anyone thinking of buying a new 250 2-stroke. Just wait a few weeks to the 2017 KTM launch, anything else would be idiotic.

Dirtysmile56
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5/4/2016 1:34pm
FGR01 wrote:
Exactly. KTM lover quote "the KTM has superior components and is a much more developed bike.. ready to race right out the crate..." (said as owner...
Exactly. KTM lover quote "the KTM has superior components and is a much more developed bike.. ready to race right out the crate..." (said as owner is installing 38mm carb with Suzuki needle and trying to decide between Ohlins suspension or a YZ fork transplant)
The main reason I pause from the KTM. I would rather have a weak motor and great suspension hands down.... I am still screwing with my '15 KX250f suspension after factory connection worked on it. It's good but still not nearly as good as the stock KYB SSS....
Dirtysmile56
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5/4/2016 1:37pm
gharmon wrote:
Are the ktm 2 strokes electric start?
Not the SX models at this point....Hopefully the '17 will be...
Dirtysmile56
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5/4/2016 1:44pm
cwtoyota wrote:
Both bikes can be razor sharp in the corners, or plenty stable. Both handle awesome. The KTM makes a bunch of power stock, the YZ needs...
Both bikes can be razor sharp in the corners, or plenty stable. Both handle awesome.
The KTM makes a bunch of power stock, the YZ needs the head milled and some jetting.
Yamaha has superior suspension. It's not even close.
KTM's front brake is spectacular. The YZ needs a 270mm rotor to be on par.

KTM parts are far more expensive.
I bought the bike with better suspension and upgraded the brake, head, jetting and put my number on it.
If either bike is too slow, make it a 300cc engine and you can holeshot the 450 class.
I am part time riding an '05 YZ 125 and handling wise it's amazing! My main bike is a '15 KX250f with fact connection suspension. The last YZ250 I had was an '04 and I still miss it. I am keeping my eyes peeled for a low hour used '06 or newer or an '02-'04, I just don't want to pay $2,700 and invest another $2,000 just to get it freshened up. Plus, the time factor, I just want to ride.... I can't stand the KTM suspension I've ridden as of late, it's been harsh. I don't like harsh, I am too beat up(43yrs old with 30 years of riding racing and crashes under my belt) to ride a harsh bike....Thanks for all the advice guys...
downard254
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5/4/2016 1:55pm
Just thinking outside the box, but go find a clean '06-'08 RM250. I love everything about that machine. Mine's an '06. I'm 6'-1" tall, I fit well on it, I threw on a 10 oz. flywheel weight, and had the suspension revalved (Someone else had been in there before I bought it and really screwed it up) and it's awesome now. And I don't need any more power.
cwtoyota
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5/4/2016 2:00pm
I am part time riding an '05 YZ 125 and handling wise it's amazing! My main bike is a '15 KX250f with fact connection suspension. The...
I am part time riding an '05 YZ 125 and handling wise it's amazing! My main bike is a '15 KX250f with fact connection suspension. The last YZ250 I had was an '04 and I still miss it. I am keeping my eyes peeled for a low hour used '06 or newer or an '02-'04, I just don't want to pay $2,700 and invest another $2,000 just to get it freshened up. Plus, the time factor, I just want to ride.... I can't stand the KTM suspension I've ridden as of late, it's been harsh. I don't like harsh, I am too beat up(43yrs old with 30 years of riding racing and crashes under my belt) to ride a harsh bike....Thanks for all the advice guys...
I have a 2002 and a 2010 YZ250. I raced the 2002 last weekend with some 2009 SSS forks/shock and did pretty well on it. It's still one of the best handling motorcycles you can get your hands on.
5/4/2016 2:35pm Edited Date/Time 5/4/2016 2:46pm
You say in your original post that you want to ride the bike "bone stock"...
Then in your last post you say "KTM suspension...it's been harsh...I am too beat up to ride a harsh bike"
Sounds like you have made up your decision....
If you can get a brand new YZ 250 for the same price as a brand new harsh KTM 250....sounds like a good deal...you should go for it.
bsharkey
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5/4/2016 2:44pm
Joko wrote:
Any info on the 2017 YZ250's surface yet?
colintrax wrote:
BNG and new tires.
why wont anyone but ktm step there shit up.,they are closing the gap fast.they own the mini bike market now hands down and are bridging the gaps in the other markets. its its like the manufacturers have thrown in the towel or "its good enough". we have had yamis and ktms both. I like things about both bikes. I don't find anything I dislike about the Yamaha.jst tired of the bng shit.
bsharkey
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5/4/2016 2:47pm
downard254 wrote:
Just thinking outside the box, but go find a clean '06-'08 RM250. I love everything about that machine. Mine's an '06. I'm 6'-1" tall, I fit...
Just thinking outside the box, but go find a clean '06-'08 RM250. I love everything about that machine. Mine's an '06. I'm 6'-1" tall, I fit well on it, I threw on a 10 oz. flywheel weight, and had the suspension revalved (Someone else had been in there before I bought it and really screwed it up) and it's awesome now. And I don't need any more power.
I had a 06 . amazing bike but they are a lot harder to find for sure
5/4/2016 6:09pm
dedi684 wrote:
I was not happy with the 4cs forks even after a bunch of work. Not a fan of air forks either
MXA said the same thing about the 4cs and said the new aer is a massive improvement.
5/4/2016 6:33pm Edited Date/Time 5/4/2016 6:34pm
dedi684 wrote:
I was not happy with the 4cs forks even after a bunch of work. Not a fan of air forks either
Kx125rider wrote:
MXA said the same thing about the 4cs and said the new aer is a massive improvement.
The 4CS can be tuned an/or updated pretty easily.
AER forks are going to be cool to check out. All good news so far.
jeffro503
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5/4/2016 11:07pm
Pat.....brother even if you don't get a chance to ride both , or either one , you can tell a lot by just sitting on one for a few minutes and see how the chassis actually feels underneath you. You can always make the motor faster , and you can always get the suspension dialed.....what matters most is " how does it feel when you're sitting on it" .

I'm kind of a Kawi guy myself , so I bleed a little green , but I'm not brand loyal at all , and will buy whatever feels the best.

With that being said....the motor is always pretty easy to get more power , or move the power around , but both the KTM and the YZ have great power right out of the box , so there shouldn't be much worry there. The suspension is a whole other story. And with what the reputation is like with the SSS suspension....you just can't possibly go wrong with that. me personally....I'd choose the YZ. Mainly because I like the feel of the Jap bikes better , but the suspension would seal the deal for me. The YZ hasn't changed much over the years because it's a rock solid bike and to be honest...how the hell would you improve that design? Not much you really could do.

I will say....the KTM 250 SX is one bad ass machine for sure though. Strongest pulling 250 2 stroke ever made as well. But if you're picky with suspension and don't want to put a lot of money into it...then the YZ could be a very reasonable choice.

The 2016 YZ 250 was going to be my next bike , but I came across a damn near new 2005 RM 2050 about 2 weeks ago....so now I'm rocking two of them. Will be all summer too. Maybe next year I'll sell one and get something different , but I don't see myself not owning at least one...I freakin' love em!
kzizok
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5/4/2016 11:20pm
shanes wrote:
get yourself a 2016 TM 250 / 300 TM usa have them , every that has has risen mine cant believe how good the engine and...
get yourself a 2016 TM 250 / 300 TM usa have them , every that has has risen mine cant believe how good the engine and handling is , best build quality on the market and you will stand out at the track as no one else will have one

Spare parts for these bikes are crazy expensive and barely any aftermarket parts available. They ride great though
Shanes,

What do you mean by "every that has has risen mine mean?

Honestly want to know. Im not sarcastically asking.
shanes
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AD
5/4/2016 11:25pm
it is funny to read the comments and how people view things .

yes i have a TM for the main reason i like the look of them and wanted to be a bit different when i get to the track, my surprise the bike is incredible , everyone who has tried it as said the same thing , its a little stiffer than the KTM but the faster you ride it the better it handles , the engine is great with loads or torque but still revs and makes power up top .

as far as the SX - YZ thing goes , i had the KTM SX 250 2015 and a guy brought his 2016 YZ to the track , he asked me to test it and see what i thought , in all honesty i thought it was shit , brakes were crap , clutch felt horrible , power signed off way to early and it was like hitting a brick wall when it did , it didn't have great front end feel or feed back and suspension was ok but nothing special . it me it felt old and cheap and the build quality was crap .

also my mate that rides enduro, redbull romanics etc , his normal ride is a KTM 300 SX and KTM 300 XC , he had seen that yamaha was bringing out the WRX or what ever its called , so i asked if he could try the bike as well . He did 3 laps on it and absolutely hated it , same exact things i said and more .

maybe it because we have been riding KTM's for a few years and used to the feel , power and chassis , but the YZ would want to be half the price of the KTM before i would even think of owning one , i was really disappointed in it

goes to show what you are used to makes a big difference in how you feel about a bike .

saying all that ride both and come up with your own feeling on what one to go for

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