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All we have to do is take a look at TMs latest Greenland thread to prove the false dichotomy. Or rather prove that the right comes up with some seriously nutty stuff.

This is exactly the problem with arguing from anecdotes. One friend exaggerates one detail, another spirals into worst-case scenarios, and suddenly that’s proof an entire group 'lives in a different reality'. That’s not reasonable analysis, that’s cherry-picking the loudest or most unserious takes you can find and treating them as representative. The Renee Good case is still under investigation, with conflicting accounts and video under review. Pretending it’s either 'random execution' or 'obviously justified' before the facts are settled is the same kind of narrative thinking you’re criticizing. And the 'stolen land' argument has been around for decades. You can...

Why you guys stressing over left v right? Is it impacting your daily lives to that degree? I have 3 sons and none of them wring their hands over any of this stuff. Except school shootings. That hit a little too close to home.

Agreed on all points. The right is just as bad tho. Trump promised a lot. No new wars, lower inflation, no more world police, a return to normalcy and so far he done the exact opposite of all of it. Sorry if you feel this was directed at you. It’s not. I just get tired of Americans dragging down other Americas because the main stream media has done nothing but gaslight and propagandize people since WW2. I worry for my children’s future and want to see America come together. Maybe I’m an odd duck but I’m 36 and I see...

This is where this thread (and others too) goes off the rails. 'Jewish media' conspiracies and insinuations about Jewish people being behind social problems aren’t political critique, they’re antisemitic tropes that predate cable news and the internet. You can dislike the left, the right, or both without going there. Once you do, you’re not arguing ideas anymore, you're figuratively goosestepping.

'Like it or not' He's going to have the whole world completely fucked up before midterms.

100% the China Russia angle makes no sense as any attack by them on Greenland would invoke all members of NATO to defend them. I think the long term play is Donald wants out of UN and NATO so he can flex his military muscle. He wants the world and he’s testing the waters with these moves. We are risking relationships with long term allies and quickly becoming a Nation others can’t trust or looked up too. We are racing to the bottom.

Fair enough, and I actually agree with your opening line, we probably do align on some of the broad strategic interests. That’s why I’m trying to stay on the mechanics instead of the personalities. The ‘selective recollection’ and ‘Narrative Followers’ framing is kind of my point, though. That’s labeling, not constructive argument. I’m not asking you to re-explain your posting history since 2008. I’m asking, in this specific case, how the Greenland scenario clears the legal, economic, and alliance hurdles you yourself acknowledge exist. That’s not nitpicking, that’s the choke point. That’s the issue to discuss On pivots, it’s not...

I’m not saying YOU intentionally skipped steps, I’m saying the SCENARIO treats those steps as if they’re frictionless and won't require much thought or effort. Independence, defense authority, and international recognition are sequential, negotiated processes with real sticking points that are not automatic in the least. That’s not nitpicking, that’s the gauging the machinery in action. Yes, there are independent countries with US bases, obviously. But those arrangements came AFTER independence, recognition, and negotiated security frameworks, not before, not by assumption, and not because it 'felt inevitable.' The distinction matters. On Greenland wanting full independence, also mostly agreed. There seem...

This is one area where we fully agree, the dangers and real world impacts of identity politics. And to the folks that think people are just anti-Trump, this is a problem that affects the vast majority of us today. Some folks blame media, though I blame us for being terrible at consuming media, but media is significantly involved either way.

Once people attach their identities to a politician, political party, or ideology, they lose their sense of self. Attacks against the particular political party or politician they’ve chosen to identify themselves with become perceived as attacks against their own existence. At this point anything or anyone that doesn’t align with your beliefs becomes an existential threat. It’s psychological manipulation at its best and anyone who believes their suffering and their issues and the problems of the world can be solved from within the framework of the modern political arena is a victim of this manipulation.

There's also the fact that under the treaty signed with Denmark in 1951 the US can already build and operate as many bases on Greenland as it likes. The problem here is that none of this needed to be a discussion. Absolutely nothing that the US has stated is an aim is unachievable now or in future through normal diplomatic channels, and there's absolutely no need to have made stupid comments about taking control or not ruling out military force.

The problem with the “independent Greenland with US bases” idea is that it skips about ten real-world steps and pretends they don’t matter. Under the 2009 Self-Rule Act, Denmark still controls foreign policy and defense unless Greenland formally becomes independent. And even then it requires negotiations, recognition, and an economy that viable That’s not opinion, that’s how the framework is written. NATO also doesn’t become irrelevant just because it’s inconvenient to the scenario. Denmark is a founding member. If the US is seen as maneuvering to peel territory away from an ally, that directly weakens the alliance structure that actually...

I have seen people get a lot more hysterical over issues a lot less dramatic than the president of the largest superpower demanding an allied territory be handed over to him, refusing to rule out taking it by military force and then implementing tariffs on some of his closest allies whom are in a mutual Defence treaty with him because they don’t support the handing over of said territory. But I get it, it’s not politics, it’s partisan fanboyism, so it’s only ever the “other side” that gets hysterical. 😂 Just imagine what this place would look like if the...

Interesting post. When the discussion gets specific, it turns into name-calling, a lifestyle update, and an exit. 😎 Also, small thing, “but I digress” usually means you’re coming back to the point. Here it’s where the argument stops! Enjoy breakfast.

I will never understand standing behind a leader on every decision. You can support his stance on the border but disagree with Epstein. Greenland etc. Very cult like imo. I am a Canadian as is my mother. She is infatuated with Trump. She's also cerifiably crazy. This is how I see 25ish % of the American population.

I doubt many of the usual suspects here would admit it.

Are any of you who supported the orange king last election disappointed in all this craziness?

"We shouldn't even have an election" Yeah yeah, rhetoric and all that... And the seed has been planted. Put it out there, walk it back, bring it up again more aggressively, walk it back less, add some chaos, point fingers, etc etc... This shit is tiresome. It's the play on everything. To be clear, I 100% believe mid-terms will still happen. It just won't be normal. I can't begin to predict how chaotic it may be, but I believe we are in for a bumpy ride.

We are talking about taking over territory from allied countries now. What a shit show the world has turned to Greenland may well be a strategic linchpin, luckily there is a Defence pact that allows the US to protect it all they want without taking territory from an allied nation and bringing about the downfall of an alliance which has worked as a functional deterrent for 75 years.