Why are dirtbikes titled?

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11/7/2020 3:50 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/7/2020 3:57 AM

Let me preface this - I think taxation is out of control.
I think that since we have an income tax which leaves all of our money in our pockets already taxed, additional taxes of any kind seem absolutely outrageous to me.

So title fees, registration, sales tax, gas guzzler tax, fuel tax, property tax, school tax, on and on.


anyway the main question I have is why do dirtbikes need to be titled? Buy a new Mx bike from the dealer? Well, there’s an additional 500 or so in sales tax and titling fees. Sell that same bike a year later used, the next poor schmuck is paying those same fees again on the same bike. The gift that keeps on giving.

You can’t be charged with the same crime twice , but the same item sure can be taxed many times and in many different ways. And again you’re using taxed money to buy the items, then charged tax on the items; and then various fees such as titling fees which are just fancy ways of wording a tax with a piece of paper attached to it.

Are mountain bikes titled? Some of them cost more than a 450? Why not, no engines? Well are lawn mowers titled? No? Some of them cost 2x a 450?

Just seems odd to me! Anyone have insight besides the tax man wanting his cut.

Dirtbikes aren’t intended for the road in any way, except of course for dual sport style bikes, but those are completely separate from Mx bikes.

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11/7/2020 4:04 AM

yz133rider wrote:

Let me preface this - I think taxation is out of control.
I think that since we have an income tax which leaves all of our money in our pockets already taxed, additional taxes of any kind seem absolutely outrageous to me.

So title fees, registration, sales tax, gas guzzler tax, fuel tax, property tax, school tax, on and on.


anyway the main question I have is why do dirtbikes need to be titled? Buy a new Mx bike from the dealer? Well, there’s an additional 500 or so in sales tax and titling fees. Sell that same bike a year later used, the next poor schmuck is paying those same fees again on the same bike. The gift that keeps on giving.

You can’t be charged with the same crime twice , but the same item sure can be taxed many times and in many different ways. And again you’re using taxed money to buy the items, then charged tax on the items; and then various fees such as titling fees which are just fancy ways of wording a tax with a piece of paper attached to it.

Are mountain bikes titled? Some of them cost more than a 450? Why not, no engines? Well are lawn mowers titled? No? Some of them cost 2x a 450?

Just seems odd to me! Anyone have insight besides the tax man wanting his cut.

Dirtbikes aren’t intended for the road in any way, except of course for dual sport style bikes, but those are completely separate from Mx bikes.

In Nova Scotia (where I live) 75% of the tax we pay to register our dirt bikes goes directly to our ride parks for maintenance. Which, I think is an awesome initative by our government here. So I don't mind paying the yearly fee to register because I know the lion's share is being put directly back into our trail system and ride parks.

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11/7/2020 4:06 AM

yz133rider wrote:

Let me preface this - I think taxation is out of control.
I think that since we have an income tax which leaves all of our money in our pockets already taxed, additional taxes of any kind seem absolutely outrageous to me.

So title fees, registration, sales tax, gas guzzler tax, fuel tax, property tax, school tax, on and on.


anyway the main question I have is why do dirtbikes need to be titled? Buy a new Mx bike from the dealer? Well, there’s an additional 500 or so in sales tax and titling fees. Sell that same bike a year later used, the next poor schmuck is paying those same fees again on the same bike. The gift that keeps on giving.

You can’t be charged with the same crime twice , but the same item sure can be taxed many times and in many different ways. And again you’re using taxed money to buy the items, then charged tax on the items; and then various fees such as titling fees which are just fancy ways of wording a tax with a piece of paper attached to it.

Are mountain bikes titled? Some of them cost more than a 450? Why not, no engines? Well are lawn mowers titled? No? Some of them cost 2x a 450?

Just seems odd to me! Anyone have insight besides the tax man wanting his cut.

Dirtbikes aren’t intended for the road in any way, except of course for dual sport style bikes, but those are completely separate from Mx bikes.

Rushton597 wrote:

In Nova Scotia (where I live) 75% of the tax we pay to register our dirt bikes goes directly to our ride parks for maintenance. Which, I think is an awesome initative by our government here. So I don't mind paying the yearly fee to register because I know the lion's share is being put directly back into our trail system and ride parks.

That’s amazing. Here in the us nobody is fighting for the tracks except the enthusiasts and owner’s themselves it seems. Certainly not the government. They do a great job of protecting areas from riding though.

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11/7/2020 4:07 AM

Well, here in Ohio I can give you the primary reason. $$$$$$$$$$$$$

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11/7/2020 4:27 AM

Buy out of state and get the MSO. No sales tax paid if it isn’t titled.

Starve the beast (although this will take awhile).

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11/7/2020 4:39 AM

It's different from state to state. I know before early 2000's, In VA you got a handshake and a smile, that was it.

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11/7/2020 4:45 AM

In the part of Canada I live in we actually can’t title/register competition motorcycles anymore. The original owner pays the taxes and fees and that’s it. The way it should be! However, since there is no title/registration buying a used bike is much more difficult because how do you know that it wasn’t stolen. I could be the original owner, sell my bike, and than claim that it was stolen. It is a messed up system. A massive amount of liability for dealers now too for people trading bikes in.

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11/7/2020 5:04 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/7/2020 5:07 AM

You’ve already answered your question, revenue.
Our government is a bloated inefficient monster that needs to be fed. Thank God that after 46 years in politics, Joe Biden is finally going to save us

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11/7/2020 5:13 AM

If I tell you to give me $50 you’ll tell me to fuck off, and rightfully so. But if I tell you I need $1 for this and $1 for that, I can get $100 out of you and you won’t think a thing about it. I think that pretty much sums it up.

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11/7/2020 5:29 AM

When ever I sell a bike I always tell the buyer that it’s a non-running pile of junk. Sat outside all winter, airbox full of mice.....etc. *wink wink* and then I write a ridiculously small selling price on the title after the exchange for the actual price has been made.

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11/7/2020 5:43 AM

yz133rider wrote:

That’s amazing. Here in the us nobody is fighting for the tracks except the enthusiasts and owner’s themselves it seems. Certainly not the government. They do a great job of protecting areas from riding though.

Where's the AMA?

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11/7/2020 5:46 AM

I buy in a state that has no tax

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11/7/2020 5:46 AM

UpTiTe wrote:

You’ve already answered your question, revenue.
Our government is a bloated inefficient monster that needs to be fed. Thank God that after 46 years in politics, Joe Biden is finally going to save us

"Come on, man....." grin

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11/7/2020 5:48 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/7/2020 5:51 AM

dedi684 wrote:

I buy in a state that has no tax

Sounds like you drive 2 hrs to NH.
No state income tax.
No sales tax.
Just like NY, right? Well, not exactly.

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11/7/2020 6:26 AM

Vt no sales tax👍

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11/7/2020 6:29 AM

Rushton597 wrote:

In Nova Scotia (where I live) 75% of the tax we pay to register our dirt bikes goes directly to our ride parks for maintenance. Which, I think is an awesome initative by our government here. So I don't mind paying the yearly fee to register because I know the lion's share is being put directly back into our trail system and ride parks.

yz133rider wrote:

That’s amazing. Here in the us nobody is fighting for the tracks except the enthusiasts and owner’s themselves it seems. Certainly not the government. They do a great job of protecting areas from riding though.

40 wrote:

Where's the AMA?

Fighting for the right of HD owners not to wear helmets....

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11/7/2020 6:35 AM

Revenue.

Interestingly, a few years back, WA started billing people who bought a used vehicle because they “underpaid” the title transfer fee when they bought the car/bike/etc for less than blue book. They got away with it until a mechanic got billed. He had bought his son a Honda car with a blown head gasket for cheap, then fixed it up for his kid to use at college. He took them to court and won with (among other things) his attorneys question to the State rep for DMV ...”You’re saying that folks are underpaying their transfer fees due to low purchase prices?” “Yes”. “How often have you refunded them when they’ve OVERPAID?”
“Uhhhhhhhhh”....

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11/7/2020 7:17 AM

sandman768 wrote:

Vt no sales tax👍

VT- another good option

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11/7/2020 7:20 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/7/2020 7:22 AM

omalley wrote:

Revenue.

Interestingly, a few years back, WA started billing people who bought a used vehicle because they “underpaid” the title transfer fee when they bought the car/bike/etc for less than blue book. They got away with it until a mechanic got billed. He had bought his son a Honda car with a blown head gasket for cheap, then fixed it up for his kid to use at college. He took them to court and won with (among other things) his attorneys question to the State rep for DMV ...”You’re saying that folks are underpaying their transfer fees due to low purchase prices?” “Yes”. “How often have you refunded them when they’ve OVERPAID?”
“Uhhhhhhhhh”....

Love it.

Even better - "How often have you refunded them when they’ve OVERPAID- with back INTEREST and PENALTIES from the over payment also applied and refunded?”

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11/7/2020 11:54 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/8/2020 9:29 AM

Umm I've never titled one in like 30 years.

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11/7/2020 9:10 PM

I don’t think most states require titles, just the states with a lot of pavement and social programs.

The other state’s dealers may be requiring titles for the financing company because the bike is technically their property and they’re letting you borrow it until you have paid for it. They want proof of ownership. Those same dealers will probably let you take the bike on an MSO if you buy it outright.

Asshole dealers may force you to title the bike so they can make a titling fee (usually less than $200 to the dealer) and don’t care if it tacks another $800 onto your otd price.

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11/7/2020 9:14 PM

UpTiTe wrote:

You’ve already answered your question, revenue.
Our government is a bloated inefficient monster that needs to be fed. Thank God that after 46 years in politics, Joe Biden is finally going to save us

holee shit, it took me like 6 times reading that before i could decide to thumbs up or thumbs down laughing

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11/7/2020 9:27 PM

omalley wrote:

Revenue.

Interestingly, a few years back, WA started billing people who bought a used vehicle because they “underpaid” the title transfer fee when they bought the car/bike/etc for less than blue book. They got away with it until a mechanic got billed. He had bought his son a Honda car with a blown head gasket for cheap, then fixed it up for his kid to use at college. He took them to court and won with (among other things) his attorneys question to the State rep for DMV ...”You’re saying that folks are underpaying their transfer fees due to low purchase prices?” “Yes”. “How often have you refunded them when they’ve OVERPAID?”
“Uhhhhhhhhh”....

Its crazy, I bought a bike in Oregon. Only part of it was financed, somehow WA State found out (I reckon the bank). They sent me a letter telling me I have to register it and pay sales tax on it or I will be charged with a misdemeanor. Thats the last time I partially finance a bike to boost credit. I'll just buy it straight with cash and get the MSO from Oregon. WA State can eat it.

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Gone:
2006 CRF230F
2008 KTM 200 XC
2017 KTM 250 SX
2019 CRF250R
Current: 2021 YZ250F

11/8/2020 5:09 AM

My father will typically go for the out of state buys to avoid taxes where it's from the next state over, or he has me find him a deal semi-local to me.

Multiple 4 wheelers, UTVs and bikes, zero issue paying cash and getting the MSO.
CRF50 he bought earlier this year, he got caught doing this by the state and received a letter in the mail that he had to title. $50 in taxes later he was good to go laughing

His state is at least half off in taxes on big purchases (cars, boats, etc) which doesn't make it as bad.

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11/8/2020 6:42 AM

UpTiTe wrote:

You’ve already answered your question, revenue.
Our government is a bloated inefficient monster that needs to be fed. Thank God that after 46 years in politics, Joe Biden is finally going to save us

On the very bright side, at least, you'll have the chance to throw him out if he doesn't next election. That was starting to look like a thing of the past, heck, and still may be!

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11/8/2020 8:07 AM

The worst case of this I’ve heard of was in CA. When you buy an older piston powered aircraft (Cessna 172/182/etc, Piper Archer/Arrow, etc), most of the value is in the engine and avionics. Many folks will buy an aircraft with an engine past TBO (time before overhaul) for a low (relatively speaking) price and replace/overhaul the engine after getting it home. This substantially increases the value of the aircraft they just bought (several tens of thousands).

Some states require tax on the aircraft when it’s brought into the state by the new owner, roughly equivalent to sales tax (my former C182 cost me 5K to bring into WA). Its based on purchase price.

What CA started doing was finding owners who brought their new (to them) aircraft into CA as a runout, then had it overhauled. They’d order them in with their aircraft’s logbooks, then force them to pay the difference in tax between what they paid, and what the aircraft was now worth with the new engine.

Regardless of party affiliation or beliefs, our government is the same type that our nation was formed to get away from. Maybe worse.

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11/8/2020 10:22 AM

foreman52 wrote:

In the part of Canada I live in we actually can’t title/register competition motorcycles anymore. The original owner pays the taxes and fees and that’s it. The way it should be! However, since there is no title/registration buying a used bike is much more difficult because how do you know that it wasn’t stolen. I could be the original owner, sell my bike, and than claim that it was stolen. It is a messed up system. A massive amount of liability for dealers now too for people trading bikes in.

NB?

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11/8/2020 10:46 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/8/2020 11:44 AM

Its a money grab. Does your snowmobile or rider lawnmower have a title? No it does not. The only vehicle that SHOULD have a title is one that is registered to operate on the public road ways.

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2 Stroke, Drum Brakes, Finned Cylinders!!!

11/8/2020 11:47 AM

Money grab. On the other hand I can insure my bike with a title. If it's stolen I have some consolation that I will get something back for it.

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The older I get, the faster I was.

11/8/2020 12:41 PM

captmoto wrote:

Money grab. On the other hand I can insure my bike with a title. If it's stolen I have some consolation that I will get something back for it.

My bike is insured and not titled, I refuse to title it because Kansas doesn't provide anywhere to ride, the handful of tiny riding areas are federal.

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