KTM/ Husqvarna/ GasGas future ….

Wow this is not good news and I was thinking of buying a new 350 XCF W.

He explained it quite well. I always thought Gas Gas was a bridge too far. And When I started seeing electric bikes branded Gas Gas, I knew there was not just a macro economic  problem, but product and organizatiinal issues. 

One mans opinion.  

Did he say Troy Lee / Ducati

Sure sounded that way to me.....

I think they will be ok. 

Sure buddy. KTM isn't going anywhere.

Wish theycould keep Gasgas and putblack wheels on them aandbremb  brakes.The FE Gas Gas looks so good.     

I saw that too and did a bit of research...

Pierer Mobility group share price is at multi year lows.  Market cap is around 850mln.  For reference, Honda Japan market cap is around 52Bln.

Ktm is either going broke or about to be bought out, possibly both.

Honda could buy them before lunch and think about what to do with the brand in the afternoon!

Too much “growth”, too quickly. Unfortunate to see. 

When you go to a KTM shop and they have rows and rows of bikes with none for less than 10K, that is a problem. The whole "ready to race" mantra has bit them hard. Unless you are willing to spend considerable coin on setup where do they expect you to buy your wife's bike or a kid's bike if he/she doesn't race? I think Honda sells a shit load more CRF/Fs than CRF/Rs, Yamaha more TTRs than YZs, KTM has nothing like that. And it's not just about the sale, it is the traffic in the stores bikes like that bring in. Add to that legitimately shitting on street bike customers warranty claims, I was one of them, this is a recipe for implosion. I love my KTM dirt bikes, I hope they right the ship, but they really fucked me over on my street bike. The national service manager literally told me, " There is nothing wrong with my 1190 Adventurer, so nothing could be wrong with yours". Sold it with a few thousand dollar loss and a good education.

This has been discussed on multiple podcasts but yes, Troy Lee will be switching to Ducati as one of the title sponsors. No word on riders yet. 

So what was wrong with the 1190?

Going to be sad to see KTM disappear.

Way too many models, with way too high of a price tag. 

So are Chase and AP gonna bankrupt KTM like RC did Suzuki?

 Herlings, Prado, Dungey, that’s why 

This is just confusing to me, every off-road race I go to there is hundreds of KTMs 90% of which are less than 3 years old, I know lots of people waiting in line for their 2025 to come in. 

The buyout/eliminate your competition model has reached critical mass. Anytime a brand forces inventory it never works out well.

Time to go back to the no linkage rear shock setup to save on costs 🤭

They have priced themselves out of their traditional and growing customer segment. Way too expensive bikes, too many models, way too high volumes and to the wrong customers.

Buying MV Agusta was actually the only smart M&A that they did the last 10 years. With MV they can compete in the excotic and low volume segment.

With that said, KTM is not going anywhere. But big changes are most likely on the way and the whole group is taking at least a couple of steps back after so many years of progress.

Every 450 (except suzuki) is over 10 grand out the door … it’s called inflation. The whole i used to buy a such and such motorcycle for 3 grand back in the day thing is getting so tired, when motorcycles were 3 grand minimum wage was 3.15 an hour and gas was 79 cents a gallon it took a long time to save for my first brand new 1989 CR125 and it was 2699 if i remember correctly! Things cost more these days, more specifically the past 3.5 years, and it doesn’t take PHD in economics to figure why

KTM does well in the competition off-road segment but that is a drop in the bucket of worldwide motorcycles sales. They spend as if they are selling millions of units, but they are only selling thousands. 

I understand but you go to multiple hare scramble races across NC and SC and this is the case at every event multiple times a month, just seems like a ton of bike sales. Also at least half of these bikes are SXF models anyways. 

Understand if its just bad management from a company perspective but as far as sales numbers go that doesn't seem the issue.

I have two KTM dealers within 40miles of me, one is a multi-line dealer with Hus and GG. Both are busting at the seams with bikes, several 24 models still on the floor with 25's crammed in the corners or still in the crate out back. Too much inventory and too high prices like mentioned above. 

Well buying Husky and GasGas only to keep them around was a dumb idea. Then they just made white and red KTM's... Such a dumb plan.

KTM needs to go back to their core. Wasting tens of millions every year on motogp is insane. Drop the 50 state off road emissions models and Move their US facility out of Ca. Drop the chinese manufacturing of KTM. Why buy an orange chinese bike for 12k when you can buy something else for much less. KTM should shed WP.    Pierre needs to step down as well as the board of directors. These dictators have run KTM into the ground. The US economy is going to take a few years to turn around. Hope the dealers can survive. And stop updating the chassis every 3 years. Get it right and stick with it for 5 years.

It’s definitely tough when you can get a kx450 for 6500 or a kx250f for 6000. For example I live 5 min from a KTM/gasgas/husky dealer and they can’t even shut the front door there’s so many 23/24 and now 25 bikes. They are discounted to about 9k for a 450. The other dealer also 5 min away is all jap bikes. And for whatever reason the floor is empty. The couple of 25’s that have trickled in are gone. They have a yz250 on the floor and that’s it. I think KTM has just overproduced and like said above when little Johnny needs a trail bike they have nothing to offer except the new e2 but other than that they got nothing. 

So you guys understand the difference between a market cap loss and and an actual out of pocket loss right? 

I think they have dropped the emissions off-road bikes for 2025. They are only making 1 or 2 models in China and they are not the competition bikes.

Also in this thread:

- I have read about $6k KX250s that I know don't exist (they were/are $7k minimum before sales tax). Kawi overbuilt for 2023 and 2024 too.

- KTM should build air cooled bikes like Honda (which are made in China by the way). This might be a good idea actually.

- If you are seeing a lot of 2025s in your local dealer it is because they are not dealing on them yet because production is significantly reduced for 2025.

- KTM should go at least 5 years on a chassis despite the fact the Japanese manufacturers (other than Suzuki) go 4 years max

- Honda is much bigger. Really? They make cars, lawnmowers, ATVs, SxS, and a bunch of other stuff I am forgetting. I doubt 10% of the inventory in any Honda powersports dealer is competition dirt bikes.

- Herlings, Prado, and Dungey are too expensive. One retired what 5 years ago? One is only on the team another two months.

KTM's cash flow is bad (really negative). This is potentially a big problem. The stock price is down quite a bit. This can be a temporary problem. They built too many 2024s which is why there are so many left in dealers. They won't admit it, but they probably need to shelve the MotoGP team. They are building some lower cost bikes in India and China and everyone is shitting on them for it. All the Japanese manufacturers have been doing this for years.