Where motocross is heading?

vdrsnk04
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3/14/2024 8:20am

You can still get what you want which sounds like is lightweight cheap easy to work on and rebuild. Enter yz125 and yz250. Or the four stroke variant, rmz250/450. All those bikes are no frills at a fraction of the cost of the high tech options out there. 
 

the other thing to remember, that old CR of yours (beautiful btw) isn’t nearly the bike of any modern bike, suspension alone is light years ahead. 

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Goon645
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3/14/2024 8:22am
Ob917 wrote:
Buying good bicycles (whatever kind you like)is expensive, and over priced. But they last forever with very little costs involved, don’t cost anything more than food...

Buying good bicycles (whatever kind you like)is expensive, and over priced. But they last forever with very little costs involved, don’t cost anything more than food and water to ride and don’t always need to be driven hours to get to a riding spot. Don’t need to be washed don’t need a garage, or a truck, etc etc. All the moto stuff got overwhelming to me, and the lack of good local riding close to me and people to ride with. I have just as much fun or more riding my Mtb from my house, I love moto it’s been in my life my whole life but I’m taking a break from riding moto. That’s where it’s heading 

A 84 cr125 was my second moto bike, such a good bike.

Bike prices are not the main issue, it’s all the associated stuff. I just built a new DH bike that cost more than a new WE450, and I didnt need to change any oil.IMG 6530 0

Frameworks frame, 5dev cranks, Ohlins - thats more factory than a WE450 broLaughing

PS - She needs Maven stoppers Wink  

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3/14/2024 8:22am

I had this type of a question before I stopped racing in 2015. Less 2 strokes around. 4 strokes needing $4K into a 250F engine just to be competitive in A class. Less and less people at the races, prices getting higher and higher. Quality/materials and technology not equating to the price increases. I wondered when it would end. Then I started going to Pro/Am's to get points towards my pro license. It was just too expensive on a single man's income paying for rent, used truck payment, all the moto oil, gas, entry fees to race more than once a month.  But once I got to the Pro/Am races, hell you'd think the moto community was booming. Everyone on the newest bikes, newest gear, almost everyone with a hauler or motorhome. It was honestly insane. Each trailer was more tricked out than Factory rigs in the 90's. I looked around and said "this is no longer a middle-class sport". The amount of money families had to be spending on their transportation to go to these races alone was astronomical. After I saw I couldn't get the necessary points in the 12 month period before running out of money, I had to step away from racing. I never stopped following the racing, hell I might even follow it more now than I ever had when I raced for 12 years. Now after a surge in 2 stroke sales and I'm getting moto fever really bad. I can't wait to get a bike again and just have fun. But the prices of this sport and everything else we buy outside of racing, really have to go down. No idea how its going to happen but it has to.

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3/14/2024 8:27am

I have been riding/ racing since 1973- so who cares about all the changes, bikes are better than they ever been. And by the way

Japanese bikes from the 70's and 80's were not 100% japanese made. The big 4 never made all the components for the bikes!

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The Shop

GrapeApe
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3/14/2024 8:29am Edited Date/Time 3/14/2024 8:35am
Ob917 wrote:
Buying good bicycles (whatever kind you like)is expensive, and over priced. But they last forever with very little costs involved, don’t cost anything more than food...

Buying good bicycles (whatever kind you like)is expensive, and over priced. But they last forever with very little costs involved, don’t cost anything more than food and water to ride and don’t always need to be driven hours to get to a riding spot. Don’t need to be washed don’t need a garage, or a truck, etc etc. All the moto stuff got overwhelming to me, and the lack of good local riding close to me and people to ride with. I have just as much fun or more riding my Mtb from my house, I love moto it’s been in my life my whole life but I’m taking a break from riding moto. That’s where it’s heading 

A 84 cr125 was my second moto bike, such a good bike.

Bike prices are not the main issue, it’s all the associated stuff. I just built a new DH bike that cost more than a new WE450, and I didnt need to change any oil.IMG 6530 0

GrapeApe wrote:

I agree with everything you said but the same could be said in 1984, right?

Ob917 wrote:
Not from how I remember it. In 84 I had lots of free local tracks to ride everywhere. And every other kid had a dirt bike...

Not from how I remember it. In 84 I had lots of free local tracks to ride everywhere. And every other kid had a dirt bike.
Not trying to be a Debbie downer, and I respect every body’s view on this. Just posting some dumb random thoughts that go along with the OPs thread. 🍻 🍻 

And I'm just trying to be a ray of sunshine to counter the gloom and doom that seems to pervade this forum!

I do get what you're saying - loading up, driving, unloading, cleaning, maintaining, etc. can be tough. Much easier to grab my MTB or gravel bike and ride straight from my garage to the trail or wherever. I attribute that to my older age, though, not to anything that has fundamentally changed within the sport.

Edit: I'll also add, a few weeks back it was $40 for 5 hours of practice at Oak Hill with fully prepped main and vet tracks. I can't think of anything that I could do for $40 that would come close to that experience.

 

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yz133rider
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3/14/2024 8:47am Edited Date/Time 3/14/2024 8:48am
vdrsnk04 wrote:
You can still get what you want which sounds like is lightweight cheap easy to work on and rebuild. Enter yz125 and yz250. Or the four...

You can still get what you want which sounds like is lightweight cheap easy to work on and rebuild. Enter yz125 and yz250. Or the four stroke variant, rmz250/450. All those bikes are no frills at a fraction of the cost of the high tech options out there. 
 

the other thing to remember, that old CR of yours (beautiful btw) isn’t nearly the bike of any modern bike, suspension alone is light years ahead. 

The 2024 yz125 is so out of date in 2024 compared to what a 1986 cr125 was in 1986.

 

they had watercooling which was brand new to moto, new style shock, advanced forks and brakes compared to 2-5-10 years ago.

 

meanwhile a 2024 yz125 is 7k new plus fees and is from 2005 in every major way that matters.  So yes a 2024 is better than a 1986 cr125 surely, but it’s lightyears behind in 2024 terms than a 1986 cr125 was in 1986.

 

2005 bike dressed up and  sold as a 2024 and priced like it’s had actual updates is disgusting.

 

and don’t try to tel me the 2022 update negates what I’ve said, because let’s use the yz250 instead - it goes back to 1999.

 

the yz125 update in 2022 found 1.5 hp and lost in the bottom what it gained in the top, so big deal. And 1.5hp found In 19 years is absurd lmao .

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Magoofan
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3/14/2024 8:49am

OP you asked:  "Why mfg's can't produce simple, reliable, lightweight and cost effective race bike's anymore?"

 

Because they can and are making so much more $$$$  on the more complex bikes.     There's also this wonderful thing called "engineered obsolescence".       Things are not made to last anymore.  People have been conditioned to throw away perfectly good mobile phones to acquire the next "gotta have it". 

I recently picked up a nearly 100 year old Underwood typewriter....    still functions as well as it did when it was manufactured.  A mechanical/engineering masterpiece.  

 

image-20240314084709-1

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lumpy790
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3/14/2024 8:51am

By doing proper maintenance of cleaning and greasing 2 or 3 times a year depending on how often you are riding and pressure washing your bike linkage bearings last .

 

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3/14/2024 9:05am
JMX82 wrote:
I have lately spendt a lot of time in the garage with my CR 125's from the eighties. Getting my 1984 CR125 representable condition for local...

I have lately spendt a lot of time in the garage with my CR 125's from the eighties. Getting my 1984 CR125 representable condition for local motorcycle exhibition and slowly starting to build 1985 CR125 from the pile parts placed in random boxes.

While I was rebuilding linkage for the -85 CR125 I admired how good sealing for the linkage bearings Honda had in the eighties compared to modern bikes where bearings are toasted just after one riding season. And that is from a bike that has a dry weight 87kg/192lbs. A kid could buy that bike back in the day with his earnings from the summer job cutting grass. That bike could be rebuilt in his father's garage with basic tools that almost every garage has.

IMG20240229212338

Jump to today and new bike costs about 1/4th of average adult yearly earnings. Almost all adult sized bikes today weighs over 100kg/220lbs (KX500 used to weigh that much) and are more and more filled cheap components sourced from china etc. At the same time bikes are filled with electronics which can be repaired by authorized repair shops. There are electronically controlled aids like launch control, traction control, different power settings etc. that many of the riders don't even need or use. On the other hand bikes are filled with cheap components that needs to replaced tight intervals which adds more costs to the average rider.

Are the mfg's digging their own grave and making dirt biking unobtainable for the average person? Electric bikes seems to be even more expensive to buy so I don't see them as a salvation for our sport. For example a 1989 CR 125's seems to be almost as fast as the modern 125's with lower weight and cheaper price compared to average earnings from the era. Why mfg's can't produce simple, reliable, lightweight and cost effective race bike's anymore? 

IMG20240309130029.jpg?VersionId=dhEwNgiEbXhcWCJMx

-84 CR125 at the exhibition 

The KTM linkages and Yamaha linkages from that era still had grease fittings.

hubbardmx50
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3/14/2024 9:07am

I'm so torn on this. The price of bikes these days makes me just a sick to my stomach as the next guy. But man, I just feel like the current four strokes are so much more fun to ride than the bikes of the past. The parts seem to last way longer and yield much longer maintenance intervals depending on how you ride. The average mortal weekend rider can easily go 100 hours on the top end of a 450. Hell, I put like 250 hours on my last bike and my valves never moved. I think you just need to keep an eye out for good deals on these bikes. Rebates and buying leftover end of year models helps a lot too. 

JMX82
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3/14/2024 9:31am
lumpy790 wrote:
By doing proper maintenance of cleaning and greasing 2 or 3 times a year depending on how often you are riding and pressure washing your bike...

By doing proper maintenance of cleaning and greasing 2 or 3 times a year depending on how often you are riding and pressure washing your bike linkage bearings last .

 

The point is that Honda had much better sealing design in the eighties which required a lot less maintenance. I can think many better things to do in my life than greasing linkage bearings...

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3/14/2024 10:12am

The new cool is the old cool...keep things very simple. Don't buy new shit, unless absolutely necessary. Most things are frustrating, expensive and designed to require maintenance and replacement.

Remember when "made in China" meant "junk shit you don't need"? Now we  have an open chute of goods pouring at full capacity into our lives.

venting, sorry, please and thank you

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sumdood
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3/14/2024 10:14am
lumpy790 wrote:
By doing proper maintenance of cleaning and greasing 2 or 3 times a year depending on how often you are riding and pressure washing your bike...

By doing proper maintenance of cleaning and greasing 2 or 3 times a year depending on how often you are riding and pressure washing your bike linkage bearings last .

 

JMX82 wrote:
The point is that Honda had much better sealing design in the eighties which required a lot less maintenance. I can think many better things to...

The point is that Honda had much better sealing design in the eighties which required a lot less maintenance. I can think many better things to do in my life than greasing linkage bearings...

Is there a reason some play bikes have zerk fittings on the linkage but mx'ers don't ?  

JMX82
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3/14/2024 11:31am Edited Date/Time 3/14/2024 11:17pm
sumdood wrote:

Is there a reason some play bikes have zerk fittings on the linkage but mx'ers don't ?  

Good question. I would run modern composite slide bearings instead of archaic needle bearings if I was to design linkage system. They would be lighter, would not need grease and would probably last many times longer with proper sealing than the current needle bearings everyone is currently using. 

https://debearings.com/product/sbt-sbt-f-2/

Sandusky26
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3/14/2024 1:33pm

I wanted to update this thread buy saying my pregnant girls 34,000K Honda just left her on the side of the road and my brand new Kawi needs a frame recall.

I'm pissed.

Suck it Roostbuckets.

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OwenJakes
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3/14/2024 2:23pm

So the answer to the thread title is "the lending office" for most middle class families.

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GrapeApe
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3/14/2024 2:28pm
OwenJakes wrote:

So the answer to the thread title is "the lending office" for most middle class families.

Not for the neighbor kid that mows lawns for the summer and buys a brand new RMZ250 just like back in the day

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Johnny Oz
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3/14/2024 4:34pm

Hmmm, this subject has been on my mind for a few years now, on the bike side of things, I've calmed myself a little by buying some vintage dirtbikes ('79 RM125, '79 KX250 & '84 CR500), I still have an RMZ450. In my old age, if I don't want to tire myself out, I ride the 125, if I'm feeling 'hot', I bust my fastest laps on the CR. Thank god companies like Vinco are still making parts for the old bikes.

Now I'm looking for another car for my Wife & I, something used but not too old (I can't afford cars that I really want from the 70's), no cars are manufactured in Australia anymore :-( everything now is either FWD pissy 1.5 litre or turbo diesel, that I don't dare try to work on myself, when I was 18 I fitted new rings to my 'straight six, '74 Ford.

I get it with emission regulations, that 'fuel injection' might be required but just give me a 'straight six', 'H' pattern floor shift, rear wheel drive, nothing like that for sale here like that anymore :-(

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3/14/2024 4:58pm
Ob917 wrote:

A quart of motorex is $20. Practice was $7 back in the day now it’s $50 at lots of tracks. 

Alex814 wrote:

Don't forget gas prices to get to the track...

GrapeApe wrote:
Average price of gas in 1984 was $1.13/gal, which equates to $3.39/gal today. I paid $2.99 yesterday to fill up my truck that gets much better...

Average price of gas in 1984 was $1.13/gal, which equates to $3.39/gal today. I paid $2.99 yesterday to fill up my truck that gets much better gas mileage than its 1984 equivalent.

Easy there.  You're getting awfully close to facts.  People don't take too kindly to those around here.

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MxAddic
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3/14/2024 5:56pm
Ob917 wrote:
Not from how I remember it. In 84 I had lots of free local tracks to ride everywhere. And every other kid had a dirt bike...

Not from how I remember it. In 84 I had lots of free local tracks to ride everywhere. And every other kid had a dirt bike.
Not trying to be a Debbie downer, and I respect every body’s view on this. Just posting some dumb random thoughts that go along with the OPs thread. 🍻 🍻 

It's not just the inflation adjust numbers. There is less disposable income these days.

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OleTex2
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3/14/2024 6:07pm
Johnny Oz wrote:
Hmmm, this subject has been on my mind for a few years now, on the bike side of things, I've calmed myself a little by buying...

Hmmm, this subject has been on my mind for a few years now, on the bike side of things, I've calmed myself a little by buying some vintage dirtbikes ('79 RM125, '79 KX250 & '84 CR500), I still have an RMZ450. In my old age, if I don't want to tire myself out, I ride the 125, if I'm feeling 'hot', I bust my fastest laps on the CR. Thank god companies like Vinco are still making parts for the old bikes.

Now I'm looking for another car for my Wife & I, something used but not too old (I can't afford cars that I really want from the 70's), no cars are manufactured in Australia anymore :-( everything now is either FWD pissy 1.5 litre or turbo diesel, that I don't dare try to work on myself, when I was 18 I fitted new rings to my 'straight six, '74 Ford.

I get it with emission regulations, that 'fuel injection' might be required but just give me a 'straight six', 'H' pattern floor shift, rear wheel drive, nothing like that for sale here like that anymore :-(

Nice collection of bikes! Perhaps an older Camaro? 

Sandusky26
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3/14/2024 6:20pm
OwenJakes wrote:

So the answer to the thread title is "the lending office" for most middle class families.

The only way out of this shit is to vote for Trump. 

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Sandusky26
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3/14/2024 6:23pm
OwenJakes wrote:

So the answer to the thread title is "the lending office" for most middle class families.

GrapeApe wrote:

Not for the neighbor kid that mows lawns for the summer and buys a brand new RMZ250 just like back in the day

All those jobs are taken by illegals and parents now a days teach children to be above manual labor.

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Tyler D
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3/14/2024 6:26pm Edited Date/Time 3/14/2024 6:26pm

fed reserve, net import vs export, high taxes, high social burdens from the unproductive classes, high regulatory burdens.

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8tensolutions
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3/14/2024 6:29pm
sumdood wrote:
Everything is like that now, why should dirt bikes be any different. Cars, trucks, appliances, equipment, nothing is built to last anymore, it’s about the bottom...

Everything is like that now, why should dirt bikes be any different. Cars, trucks, appliances, equipment, nothing is built to last anymore, it’s about the bottom line. 

It was always about the bottom line, but the entry level workers now get paid an obscene amount with little or no skill so it drives the cost up for everything.  

Cars for example, are built about 1000% better than they were in the 80's.

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OwenJakes
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3/14/2024 7:33pm
OwenJakes wrote:

So the answer to the thread title is "the lending office" for most middle class families.

GrapeApe wrote:

Not for the neighbor kid that mows lawns for the summer and buys a brand new RMZ250 just like back in the day

That’s kind of a 90’s fantasy. I’ve literally never seen anyone do that ever. Most of our students make 9-13$ an hour and then lose it all at the gas pump and car insurance. 
I’m sure they could get a $2200 YZ125 over a summer. 

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brocster
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3/14/2024 7:38pm
Alex814 wrote:

Don't forget gas prices to get to the track...

GrapeApe wrote:
Average price of gas in 1984 was $1.13/gal, which equates to $3.39/gal today. I paid $2.99 yesterday to fill up my truck that gets much better...

Average price of gas in 1984 was $1.13/gal, which equates to $3.39/gal today. I paid $2.99 yesterday to fill up my truck that gets much better gas mileage than its 1984 equivalent.

Easy there.  You're getting awfully close to facts.  People don't take too kindly to those around here.

How much more did that truck that gets better gas mileage cost over the 84 model??? Can’t pick and choose scenarios to justify your thought process. Shits more expensive these days plain and simple. 

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TerryB
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3/14/2024 7:39pm
vdrsnk04 wrote:
You can still get what you want which sounds like is lightweight cheap easy to work on and rebuild. Enter yz125 and yz250. Or the four...

You can still get what you want which sounds like is lightweight cheap easy to work on and rebuild. Enter yz125 and yz250. Or the four stroke variant, rmz250/450. All those bikes are no frills at a fraction of the cost of the high tech options out there. 
 

the other thing to remember, that old CR of yours (beautiful btw) isn’t nearly the bike of any modern bike, suspension alone is light years ahead. 

I do think that the YZ125 & 250 are the best bang for the buck in mx/offroad today.

KTM should keep a carbureted, kickstarted 150 with a linkless pds rear suspension in an entry level racer/vet level racer/budget racer package.  I would buy that.  I hate linkage maintenance.

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3/14/2024 10:36pm
HonDawg17 wrote:
I had this type of a question before I stopped racing in 2015. Less 2 strokes around. 4 strokes needing $4K into a 250F engine just...

I had this type of a question before I stopped racing in 2015. Less 2 strokes around. 4 strokes needing $4K into a 250F engine just to be competitive in A class. Less and less people at the races, prices getting higher and higher. Quality/materials and technology not equating to the price increases. I wondered when it would end. Then I started going to Pro/Am's to get points towards my pro license. It was just too expensive on a single man's income paying for rent, used truck payment, all the moto oil, gas, entry fees to race more than once a month.  But once I got to the Pro/Am races, hell you'd think the moto community was booming. Everyone on the newest bikes, newest gear, almost everyone with a hauler or motorhome. It was honestly insane. Each trailer was more tricked out than Factory rigs in the 90's. I looked around and said "this is no longer a middle-class sport". The amount of money families had to be spending on their transportation to go to these races alone was astronomical. After I saw I couldn't get the necessary points in the 12 month period before running out of money, I had to step away from racing. I never stopped following the racing, hell I might even follow it more now than I ever had when I raced for 12 years. Now after a surge in 2 stroke sales and I'm getting moto fever really bad. I can't wait to get a bike again and just have fun. But the prices of this sport and everything else we buy outside of racing, really have to go down. No idea how its going to happen but it has to.

Best rt up on here in a long time.  I finally had the 1st of 4 injections today. I was told I needed a driver so it was intense.  As a rider I look up to someone like you more a top 450 rider.  You should get a 125 Mn. Has great sand tracks , hard to beat the feeling railing on a 125 in sand.  .  91 125 gp,s they asked Donny Schidt why  he was soo fast in the Holland sand . He had a massive lead over Everts. He said he lives in Belgium now but he grew up riding sand tracks in Mn. That was the biggest reason.  Wi. Probably the fastest 50+ rider wins 40A & got 15th at LL in 45,50+ on a TC 125.  The 125 class in Wi. Is a the biggest class to win like most states.  1 local got 1st& 2nd in motos in Tx. Last week.  These kids r fast probably the hardest class to win. And 28 + riders on the gate it’s exciting.  Big Mx co.s would rather talk & sell stuff to enthusiastic riders who ride for the Feeling. Than some rich family that r snobs.  I brought up my 04 gives up a little on top to a 24. But it handles a lot better.  They agreed the industry or bikes hasn’t changed much in the last 20 yrs.  Mostly gimmicks on bikes to create sales.  No 2024 is even close to the handling of a 04 cr125.  The biggest genius in suspension will also say the same thing. Honestly I could be competitive on a 87,89 cr125. These bikes to 07 r Extremely high quality built.  I kill myself working 7 days a week for months straight.  I will not waste my hard earned money on some gimmick poor quality built bike. Plus I paid a 1/4 of what a 450 cost for a 5 hr bike. 

1
Johnny Oz
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3/14/2024 10:57pm
Johnny Oz wrote:
Hmmm, this subject has been on my mind for a few years now, on the bike side of things, I've calmed myself a little by buying...

Hmmm, this subject has been on my mind for a few years now, on the bike side of things, I've calmed myself a little by buying some vintage dirtbikes ('79 RM125, '79 KX250 & '84 CR500), I still have an RMZ450. In my old age, if I don't want to tire myself out, I ride the 125, if I'm feeling 'hot', I bust my fastest laps on the CR. Thank god companies like Vinco are still making parts for the old bikes.

Now I'm looking for another car for my Wife & I, something used but not too old (I can't afford cars that I really want from the 70's), no cars are manufactured in Australia anymore :-( everything now is either FWD pissy 1.5 litre or turbo diesel, that I don't dare try to work on myself, when I was 18 I fitted new rings to my 'straight six, '74 Ford.

I get it with emission regulations, that 'fuel injection' might be required but just give me a 'straight six', 'H' pattern floor shift, rear wheel drive, nothing like that for sale here like that anymore :-(

OleTex2 wrote:

Nice collection of bikes! Perhaps an older Camaro? 

Nah I'd like a '77 351 F100, maybe a 6 cyl wagon for the Missus :-)

2

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