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I easily could have sold it myself, or put it on consignment at multiple independent shops. No need for a dealer to sell a bike....
Nothing I did contradicted my earlier statement...I don’t “need” a dealer for anything but buying a bike. I look forward to the day I can do it online directly from the OEM....
By the way your question was answered 10 times already but your still here?
"I figure I could have sold my bike for about $7K - $7500...the dealer gave me $6500...so that saved me $480 in sales tax (I only had to pay 7.3% on $3600, rather than 7.3% on $10,150)...so its the same as selling the bike myself for $6980. So it may have cost me a few hundred bucks...but the time and hassle saved in not having to sell it, made it well worth it to me."
Give it up bro. You are just digging your hole deeper.
" the time and hassle saved in not having to sell it, made it well worth it to me."
Not true, you needed him because your an opportunist and it benefited you with less hassle and time yet you have made this thread bashing them.
Your words, not mine.
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I took advantage of an option provided by the dealer, it wasn't a need...I easily could have made more money and sold it myself...I don’t need a dealer to sell a bike, because there are other options (I need a dealer to buy a new bike because there is no other option).
But he technically didnt NEED the dealer (except for new bike purchase) but if new bike purchases were availible to be done through oems and shipped to your door method im sure he would have just done that!
I think thats all he is sayin.
Ihopeugotsumweed
Now if he would have said the only way he can buy a bike is through a dealer instead of saying it was his only need in this dealer hate induced thread I would have agreed.
The idiocy around here is incredible.
I'm looking pretty much anywhere and will just ship it in as needed. Talked to a dealer that has one on the floor down south. Told him what I was looking for yup they have one i'll call you back with OTD number.
Calls me back bike has MSRP of $5099 and he tells me OTD is $7k. I ask him to please explain how we are almost $2k over the MSRP he says well there is freight of $600 which is right on KTM's website. I say ok but it says $300 on their website and he gives some excuse about paying more for freight lately, add another $695 for dealer setup, $250 in doc fees, plus 6% sales tax. I paid $5350 OTD for a 50 factory edition one month ago from my local guy at that bike has an MSRP of $5199.
Waiting to hear back from 2 other dealers that were closed today. If anyone has a line on a dealer with a 21 KTM 65 that is not looking to gouge with fees please PM me. Thank you!!!
Not sure if all of the bike manufacturers are this way, but in the car business the dealer doesn't pay the freight company, the manufacturer/shipper does. The manufacturer sets a price for the year that they charge the dealers and it is usually the exact same amount no matter how far the dealer is away for that matter. If the manufacturer can get freight cheaper, then they could make some money that way because the freight that they charge the dealer is already set.
It could be that KTM has a temporary price increase or even some sort of surcharge because of the weird trucking market, but it sounds more like a dealer trying to take advantage of a tight situation in this instance. Could be wrong, though.
I was going to suggest asking for documentation of KTM increasing the freight charge, but to be honest it probably doesn't sound like a dealer I would trust too much anyways unless there are some really strange circumstances at play.
i understand that dealers have huge costs to operate a successful business but since when is $655 not a great deal for doing literally nothing besides parking a motorcycle in a building where it wasnt built and the salesman most likely did nothing to bring the customer in the door. I Wish I could make $655 for doing basically nothing. In all reality, any manufacturer that doesnt sell direct is giving away money.
Does it matter how they say it?
There will 100% be a charge for delivering the bike to the dealer, does it really matter if they say:
Bike = $6000.000
Delivery charge = $300.00
Or if they say:
Bike = $6300.00
Delivery charge = FREE.
Its irrelevant how they break it down, the bottom line is, to carry the bike from one place to the other costs money.
Its a bit like set-up fees... are they real? Yes, it costs money for a tech to unpack it from a crate, build it, clean it, present it in the showroom, PDI it, get rid of all the packing materials.....its irrelevant how they present the pricing, but all these things cost time and time costs money.
You guys are so hung up about delivery charges and set up fees being itemised and feeling like you're being conned.
If they got rid of all these extra fees, it seems you guys would be happier, however the bottom line price of the bike remains the same.
It simpler here in the UK, you walk in to the dealer and there's a price on the front plate- thats what you pay. This includes everything- carriage, set-up, PDI, everything.
Why in America you break it down in to itemised items is weird.
Tell us you know nothing about running a business without telling us you know nothing about running a business.
Here's how I see this whole issue. The whole business model for selling things like cars and motorcycles is set up to put the dealerships and customers in an adversarial relationship. To begin with there is the historical practice of setting an unrealistically high price, expecting the customer will haggle the price down to a realistic number, thinking he is getting a great deal, when in reality he is just paying what the car/bike should have been priced to begin with. With customers now having a much easier way to shop around, the OEM's have morphed to setting an unrealistically low MSRP to get people in the door, with the expectation that the dealer is going to make their profit charging various fees. The customer see's the MSRP and thinks that is the the starting point for negotiation on price, while dealers see the MSRP as the base price before adding their fees. With this adversarial business model, is it really any surprise that customers always feel like they are being ripped off, and the dealers feel like the customers are completely unrealistic?
As an accountant who is familiar with dealerships' business practices, costs, and margins, all I can say is that this is jaw-droppingly ignorant. If a bike doesn't sell quickly, financing costs can eat away profit completely. Heaven forbid they actually make a profit on some of their units.
Pit Row
I think that's basically right. The dealers are, among other things, a layer of insulation between the manufacturer and the consumer. This is actually very valuable to the manufacturers.
Yeah freight fees are on the actual invoice from the manufacturer. BUT that invoice total should be considered as the bike's Dealer cost. But a business will probably put the cost as the bike cost, and all other fees associated separately. Yamaha shipping was $500 each bike back in 2008.
I agree. The manufacturers get their money, while basically leaving the dealers blowing in the wind. If I was a dealer I'd be more upset with the OEM's practices than at customers not wanting to pay what can seem to be ridiculous fees.
This. As an operator for many years, people just do not understand dealers are netting sub 10% annually. That HD and metric. Have you ever seen one dollar empowerment?
How dare they try to make money?
The companies put a common shipping price on the bikes so that it's the same price per unit at each dealer. I remember in the 70s and 80s a local dealer ran his own truck to the Baton Rouge Honda warehouse and picked up his own bikes. He had much less in them and could sell cheaper and make the same or more money compared to someone that paid a truckline to ship them. Like some of the others above though, why separate it and just have the cost include shipping. It must be an accounting thing that works in someone's favor.
I have a local shop that we have purchased many bikes from. I don't expect them to not make any money but I also expect them to sell me the bike at a competitive price. If they do that, when I need another bike, I'll go back to them for the next purchase. Having said that, the market has changed over the years. It used to be "your local shop" where you knew the people and they knew you. Now it's become more of a transaction in a walmart super center. I'm lucky enough to have a local shop still and I'll buy from them even if it's a bit more than the big super center. But that's why you have money and I don't. lol
TM
I think you're missing the point. Or just don't want to understand because you don't like his position.
You can't buy a new bike without going through a dealer. The dealer pays for the right to be the only place you can buy a particular product (new bike) in a defined area. So he "needs" to buy through a dealer. He can sell his old bike many different ways. Whether he chooses to incorporate the old bike as part of the deal or sell it himself is an "option" he can choose what's best for him. The Yamaha dealer cannot force him to incorporate the old bike into the deal but they can force him to buy a new bike from them in the area they paid for exclusive selling rights. And if he goes out of the area, he has to deal with another "dealer" that owns the license in the next area, Because the dealer paid for the exclusive right to sell the new bike. End
TM
Dealer doc fees are capped in California. The rest seems like it's fair game.
Here's a fun new one. The manufacturer's are now adding a "commodity surcharge" of up to $1000 on everything. Its an extra charge because parts hare hard to source to build them.
If the MFG's were honest about pricing and made their MSRP's reflect the cost of shipping, PDI and shit, dealers would take a hell of a lot less heat from customers.
At our shop, our list price is all inclusive, just add taxes. its often higher than MSRP, but our out the door price is almost always lower than the guys who advertise low prices to get people in the door. Keeps things simpler and makes us feel less slimy about having to add fees.
Looking at different facebook groups and here occasionally, guys are asking for reliable, cheap shippers to move a bike across the country for them. Then, they have a chance to buy a new bike delivered by a cheap, reliable shipper and bitch about it. Why would people pay to ship a used bike and bitch about a new bike?
You either want the goddamn thing or you don't. Make up your mind.
It would be so cool if bikes could be delivered straight to the house in the crate. Just bypass the dealer. From my experience, anything a dealer touches mechanically is probably fucked up.
I had a kawi throw a rod at 5 hours. Got kawi to give me a crate motor at close to cost. But dealership had to do the motor swap. I spent half a day when I got it back fixing everything. Air boot wasn't even on the carb!!
I would never have a dealership touch the internals of a motor or suspension. That's what motor and suspension specialist shops are for. Everything else can be easily done by the owner.
Not to mention nothing is usually in stock, so they order it and I wait just like online. I'm sure there are still good ones out there. But I'm my area I haven't experienced any.
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