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So unless the first guy you phoned knows you have a trade , you didnt get his deal, did you.. he might have valued your bike better than the other guy.
Just shows that you dont get how it works... best price is to sell straight out, the 'deal' is the price to go in with one and leave with the other. You dont get that price unless the dealer sees your bike.
As other have stated Dirt bikes don't keep the dealerships open. How many street bike owners(keeping the dealers open) need dealer service? If you eliminate the thieving dealers you eliminate the sport by cutting off your own balls.
Morans I tell you.
The dealer at $10,900 was also only $5800 on the trade.
The dealer at $11,600 was $6600 on the trade.
I went with the dealer at $11,100 and $6500 on the trade...because they were the lowest out of pocket cost for me and therefore the cheapest.
What am I missing?
The Shop
The price of neither item matters , only the difference, so he could have quoted the guy $4000 OTD and given him $350 for the trade.. Thats $3650 to swap.. Thats the deal.
I have lost deals in the past cos we were $500 light on the trade, when our new bike was $1000 cheaper than the other dealer... all he could see , was that his bike was worth $500 more with the other guy, he didnt get that he would be paying the guy $500 more to leave with the same bike.
At that point you decide they arent worth any amount of money , and move on.
And when they turn up with the trade, and you appraise it, and the deal changes by $500 because despite it being clean, the tyres are done, it needs a chain and sprocket kit, and pads and a rear disc, and thats just the stuff that leaps out at you .. the closer you look, the worse it gets, rads are tweaked, and repaired... and they still expect top dollar.
So Titan should have said ' I have a 19 450X, whats it gonna cost to get on a 21' .. thats it .
Of course , there is only a $500 deposit, so if the rest is financed, they could be having money out of that too... which adds another dimension, as then , only the monthly matter, the rest is irrelevant.
So if you turn up with your bike, and $500, and leave with a new one paying $200/mo thats a better deal than paying $225 , irrespective of the price of either bike.
Our competition used to undercut by $200 on the price, and wang it up on the finance, so even though it looked cheaper, they were paying more per month, because the rate was 3% higher.
Where we used to score, ( and my buddy still does) is that if you do the finance right and make just a bit, when they want to trade after 12 months, they can settle the outstanding balance easily, and trade and just keep the same payments.
Their OTD price - the trade amount = what I pay out of pocket...the lower out of pocket the better the deal...
It seems to me we are getting the same answer but possibly going about the math in two different ways...(like I’m saying 4X3=12...and you are saying 6X2=12...two ways of looking at it, but the same answer.)
And I’m paying cash...no financing. I made a deposit so they’d hold it until I can get over to the dealer the beginning of next week.
Honestly, If I’m doing it wrong and didn’t get the best deal...I’d love for you to educate me further on this.
But still, OEM’s would have to have a presence in the markets they are doing business in do handle recalls etc....so dealers would/could morph into service centers that would be owned by the manufacturer rather than individually dealerships.
Sounds like he negotiated or at least received a quote from each dealer as if it were a standalone deal. After receiving that “OTD” number, he then introduced the trade and each of them gave their trade offer without changing their “cash” price for the bike. At that point it’s pretty easy to do the calculations for the “difference and if one dealer had a slightly higher cost for the new bike but a substantially higher offer on his trade, it would be easy to see that advantage in the numbers.
He basically treated the issue like 2 separate transactions and calculated the total effect of both transactions on his wallet.
Some of the numbers didn’t look correct to me last night because I was extremely tired and obviously don’t have the quote sheets from each of the dealers in front of me, but the method he used seems to be pretty sound.
The best part of the story is hearing that the dealer was honest and legit and didn’t try it pull the ol’ “That unit sold just before you got here but I can get you one just like it for only $500 more!” deal on him!!!!!
But you are agreeing with me... the 2 numbers mean nothing, only the difference... so finding the lowest OTD price is irrelevant.
As a dealer, if you have a good clean bike that i can retail out straight away , or even have someone waiting for, i want to know that straight away.
This is where your smaller dealer comes into his own, because he will stand taller for used stuff, because he will sell it better than the huge dealer, who just wants to move units for volume bonus.
My point is that if you are going to trade, that is where you open, else its meaningless.
And only paying tax on the difference seems dumb to me, here in the UK, the tax is on the value of the new price, irrespective of whether you trade.. i dont get that bit at all.
I asked each dealer what they could do on trade and what they could do OTD on the new bike...and the difference was what I cared about.
I was looking for highest trade value, and lowest OTD sale price...I found the best combo of the two which meant my out of pocket was the lowest.
The reason I didn’t just say “I have this bike for trade what will it take to get me into a 21?” Is because I still had the option of selling it on my own...and I needed to know the trade in value so I could compare that to what I thought I could get selling it myself. I’m all about the convenience of a trade, but the price of that convenience is what I have to know to help me make my decision.
And the tax on the difference may seem dumb, but I’ll take it as it saves me money. I know not all states do it this way. But I don’t complain.
Pit Row
It was $4100 (after my $500 deposit)...but still...to be out of pocket $4100 on a new bike...and do that every year to year and a half to two years sure seems affordable.
Your point would absolutely be valid if Titan only took the quote with the lowest initial "OTD" price, but he didn't. Based on his numbers, the dealer with the lowest standalone "OTD" price didn't actually have one, and the next best quote was $200 higher. His trade-in offers had only one offer better, by $100, which was presumably not from the same dealer who didn't have the new bike in the first place but had the lowest standalone offer. So all things being said, his math is certainly "close enough".
Obviously the used bike market is absolutely topsy turvy right now, but in a "normal" time you could probably use a published 'blue book trade in' value as a benchmark for his trade in offers and subtract every dollar that he was offered over that amount from the asking price of the new bike, but really that's just overkill and the market really isn't stable enough to do that.
Basically, he got a good deal because he's happy with it. That's really all that matters.
Just negotiate an acceptable total price with a dealer you feel good about.
There are mills that want to churn every last dime out of a transaction, but you can get a feel for that pretty quickly just buying some afternarket stuff or parts for an old bike before deciding if you want to drop money for a bike or even talk to them about that. The attitude at the parts counter usually reflects the operation in my experience.
But seriously, his old bike looked sweet, i am, sure his new one will be too.
But not being happy about this purchase wasn’t the point of the thread...
Am I happy about paying anything but MSRP plus tax, title and license? No...I’d also love to pay below MSRP...but I also know that there is more demand than supply...so dealers are in the drivers seat. And if I want a new bike, then I don’t have much choice either. Dealers charge them because they can.
Even so, the price I pay (or the fees that are or are not included in that price) is irrelevant as to my feeling about dealers...In that I’d much rather not have to deal with them, and just buy online direct from the OEM. Again, that was a tangent the thread took from the original question.
There saying it included a rebate lmao, what dealership would put a rebate on a 1year old new inventory stock,
And that comment of who is payin 8 k for a year old race bike, lmfao, cause that bike went up in value by 3k lmao, go buy a 2020-2021 350sxf and see what otd price is, bet its 11,200 regardless of year old or not, also betigotsumweed.
" I honestly look forward to the day I can just buy a bike online directly from the manufacturer and have it delivered to my house) so all other “value” dealers can claim to provide aren’t factors in my decision....so buying a bike is all about price to me....because that is literally all I need the dealer for (selling the bike). "
Me, If I made a statement about not wanting or needing dealers such as you the last thing I would be doing Is putting myself in a better situation than I would be without their existence by using one for my benefit.
I wonder some times if these discussions are about hating to spend money as much as not liking the inreasing cost of bikes. People had these OTD fees discussions back in the 70s, so that hasn’t changed. Maybe it’s just personality. Nothing wrong with hating to spend money, but it doesn't seem necessary to add a disgruntlement tax to something that in the big picture exists purely for fun..
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