Stark Varg Reviews

Last Braaap
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4/9/2023 10:28pm
Going live at 9AM PST Monday. Cya there!    
Going live at 9AM PST Monday. Cya there!
 

 

 

 

22Ryann
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4/10/2023 12:03am
Going live at 9AM PST Monday. Cya there!    
Going live at 9AM PST Monday. Cya there!
 

 

Premieres are the shittest thing to exist on Youtube

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crowe660
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4/10/2023 1:50am
I'm rendering a raw GoPro from my last full moto in Barcelona on the Stark Varg, for your enjoyment. Will be on my youtube channel in...

I'm rendering a raw GoPro from my last full moto in Barcelona on the Stark Varg, for your enjoyment. Will be on my youtube channel in a few hours (4k takes a while to render and process).

https://www.youtube.com/@bwhaskell

May be an image of motorcycle, dirt bike and text that says 'FULL MOTO ON THE STARK VARG ELECTRIC DIRTBIKE DIRT SET TO65HP BRYAN371 HHSKELL'

tek14 wrote:

Says its delayed 10 more hours?

This made me laugh.  Right out of the Stark playbook. 

9

The Shop

Sandusky26
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Eastern, NC, USA
4/10/2023 2:15am
I'm rendering a raw GoPro from my last full moto in Barcelona on the Stark Varg, for your enjoyment. Will be on my youtube channel in...

I'm rendering a raw GoPro from my last full moto in Barcelona on the Stark Varg, for your enjoyment. Will be on my youtube channel in a few hours (4k takes a while to render and process).

https://www.youtube.com/@bwhaskell

May be an image of motorcycle, dirt bike and text that says 'FULL MOTO ON THE STARK VARG ELECTRIC DIRTBIKE DIRT SET TO65HP BRYAN371 HHSKELL'

tek14 wrote:

Says its delayed 10 more hours?

crowe660 wrote:

This made me laugh.  Right out of the Stark playbook. 

Chad's groupies can't help themselves, 34 pages and not a single bike, hell not a single review. The guys who want to give a review are extremely biased/groupie.

3
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J2s
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GB
4/10/2023 2:24am

From a marketing point of view putting more  vids up on the same dusty track conditions is  not helping ,come on even a muddy track would do ,it's not stopped raining in the UK for nearly 6 weeks tracks are open but will this 

GAME CHANGER be usable if you don't live in a dry country.

​​​​​​side note 

​​​​​​Few of my mates boys have sold there Sur Ron's and gone back to crf110 

something about the sounds the smell the not running out of battery at there woods track and pushing them home 

​​​​​

1
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RaceFace232
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4/10/2023 2:28am
#434 wrote:
Fair enough, but do you really ‚highly doubt it‘? KTM is very successful in what they do and  of course doesn’t want to change what’s working...

Fair enough, but do you really ‚highly doubt it‘?

KTM is very successful in what they do and  of course doesn’t want to change what’s working, just like most car manufacturers wanted to just keep producing ICE-cars before Tesla took off. If Stark can delivery a bike close to what they promise, demand will stay high and KTM has to react, just like the traditional car manufacturers are now. 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
I do highly doubt it.  How long have electric cars been around? A lot of manufacturers offer electric models, but they make up a very small...

I do highly doubt it. 

How long have electric cars been around? A lot of manufacturers offer electric models, but they make up a very small percentage of their overall sales and they still haven't been adapted by masses worldwide.

Why would off-road motorcycles all of the sudden be taken over by electric bikes? 

Don't get me wrong, I do think they have a place in the market, but I don't see them taking over the entire segment for a long time.

I have no idea if you read the interview or not, but what he says makes a lot of sense. 

Until Stark or another manufacturer comes along and proves the concept is truly a viable option, I don't think the established manufacturers are worried about releasing full size electric dirt bikes just yet. 

Alta was around for a number of years and none of the big manufacturers felt threatened enough to release an electric model. There must be a reason for that, no? 

If you've seen my post you'll know that I'm not against them and that I think they should have their own series like Formula E. I think that's the best way to grow the sport of off-road motorcycling. 

You are missing the whole reality that governments of the world have either signed into law (or are threatening to do so) the elimination of gas powered vehicles.  This isn’t about KTM choosing not to go battery powered.  They likely will HAVE to, at some point.  If you look at what Pit said, his words were something along the lines of right now or presently.  Right now isn’t 10 years from now.  KTM certainly has some sort of plan in place and I’m sure tons of R&D being done on battery powered bikes.  Harley Davidson has announced they will be fully electric by 2035 and that in no way represents that Harley guys want silent bikes.  Ive said before, they should just announce that in 2035 they will be closing their doors because at that point Harley guys are just going to burn the building down in protest anyway.

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RaceFace232
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4/10/2023 3:01am
Sandusky26 wrote:
I agree with everything. Gypsy asked Chad if he would have difficulty getting parts during covid when every manufacturer was having issues. Chad said nope we...

I agree with everything. Gypsy asked Chad if he would have difficulty getting parts during covid when every manufacturer was having issues. Chad said nope we are dialed.

Don't promise chicken salad when all you have is chicken shit.

It’s just so odd to root for a new type of motorcycle to fail. I want development and new technology in the sport. 

I am rooting for the entire EV movement to fail. Not for any reason other than the ultimate success of EV will result in the inability to use any vehicle that runs on gasoline.  And the ultimate success will require government interference.  I foresee not only the elimination of manufacturers being ALLOWED to sell new gas powered vehicles, but the banning of the use of the vehicles already owned.  Each purchase of an EV is a vote to do away with gas vehicles.  It’s also a vote against the sport you love.  I am one of an enormous segment of MX/off-road people who will never own an EV bike.  I also am not going to watch EV SX or EV MX.  The sport as a whole will take a tremendous hit financially once the EV has been fully forced upon us by the governments of the world.  As of now, that’s s target year of 2035.  Each EV bike purchase is an affirmation to these government bodies goals.  When I first saw that KTM was coming out with tge Freeride I thought it would be cool to have a silent bike.  Now with GM and Harley and Kawasaki ANNOUNCING they will not have a gas powered vehicle in their lineup by that year??  I’m fully in protest of this movement.  If you love MX and think that supporting the EV movement won’t drastically change the sport you love, you should think a little harder.  When there’s nothing but EV MX bikes available you will see an enormous drop in sales of MX bikes as people like me look for a different hobby.  You also might see SX with half empty (or more) stadiums, which could be the demise of SX if that can be imagined.  If the cost of putting on a SX race can’t be covered, they will cease to be put on.  The government wants you to embrace EV.  You want to hold hands with the government as a dirt bike fan?  Good luck with that.  They’d LOVE to outright ban dirt bikes period.  That they can’t do but if they can get all the dirt bikers to follow them into the EV black hole, that’s the next best thing.

10
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RaceFace232
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4/10/2023 3:15am

Another thought on Stark and Chad and the whole business plan. How do you completely scrap your initial factory setup and invest in a larger better more modern factory setup based on 15,000 $100 deposits.  I spent $100 at Chili’s with my family last night. Not exactly a major investment. This is not some major investment that you revamp a factory over. If it were $1,000 deposits?  Different story.  Which then begs the question, why didn’t he do $1,000 deposits??  Was he afraid he would’ve gotten only 5,000 buyers?  This did not sit right with me when it was announced and still makes no sense.  If nothing else, that had to have added a huge amount to the delay factor.  Did he consider the notion of 10,000 “customers” backing out once the other $13,000 was due?  I find it hard to believe that a successful business man would make such a decision with those parameters.  Yet he did.  

4
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Bearuno
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4/10/2023 3:33am Edited Date/Time 4/10/2023 3:35am

Eicher Motors Ltd ( parent company of Royal Enfield ) invested 50 million Euros in Stark Varg in December (?) of last year.

That's at least one source of the money for a new factory etc.

Curiously, that 50 million Euros got Eicher 10.3% ownership of Stark Varg. So, "Mr Turtleneck" must have a lot of his own  money in the company, and / or he has already some substantial investors.

Some here might just press a few buttons on whatever electronic device they are on, to get an idea of the size of Eicher Motors Ltd, if they don't already know of it .

burn1986
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bossier city, LA, USA
4/10/2023 3:40am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Motocross is a small percentage of the off-road motorcycling world. Perhaps KTM doesn't see the value in investing tens/hundreds of millions of dollars into something where...

Motocross is a small percentage of the off-road motorcycling world. Perhaps KTM doesn't see the value in investing tens/hundreds of millions of dollars into something where it will take an eternity to recapture their capital and turn a profit. With the auto industry, it's different. Hundreds of millions of people drive vehicles every day. As mentioned in my other post, waiting for someone else to prove it's a valuable option makes sense. Alta spent millions of dollars and went bankrupt. Time will tell if Stark will become a success or suffer the same fate as Alta. 

Regarding electric bikes being faster, people are already saying that the 450s are too fast. There are very few amounts of riders who can ride a 450 to its full potential. Building faster bikes that are easier to ride doesn't solve the problem. With no clutch to help control the power delivery, it could spell total disaster for some people. There's a video of Ronnie Renner whisky throttling the Alta. It happened so fast and that's with a very experienced dirt bike rider.    

I have yet to see and hear how the Stark performs in different conditions. All I've seen are them riding the same hard-pack track in Spain. Josh Mosiman rode an Alta in the sand at Club MX and mentioned something along the lines that it wasn't great, and it went nowhere. I no longer ride, but that would be a big concern for me. All we have around my area is sand and deep sand. I would hate to pay 15k for a bike that can't complete a single 20-30 minute moto let alone multiple motos in a day without sitting around for hours waiting for it to recharge. 

I'm not saying that their bike can't perform in different conditions. To my knowledge, they just haven't shown or talked about it.

IMO, beginners on 80HP bikes are a recipe for disaster.

 

Holy crap! That was a hard hit, Dang

1
#434
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DE
4/10/2023 3:56am
Another thought on Stark and Chad and the whole business plan. How do you completely scrap your initial factory setup and invest in a larger better...

Another thought on Stark and Chad and the whole business plan. How do you completely scrap your initial factory setup and invest in a larger better more modern factory setup based on 15,000 $100 deposits.  I spent $100 at Chili’s with my family last night. Not exactly a major investment. This is not some major investment that you revamp a factory over. If it were $1,000 deposits?  Different story.  Which then begs the question, why didn’t he do $1,000 deposits??  Was he afraid he would’ve gotten only 5,000 buyers?  This did not sit right with me when it was announced and still makes no sense.  If nothing else, that had to have added a huge amount to the delay factor.  Did he consider the notion of 10,000 “customers” backing out once the other $13,000 was due?  I find it hard to believe that a successful business man would make such a decision with those parameters.  Yet he did.  

Have you ever heard that banks and investors will lend you money if they think your business plan might work?

2
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Silas444
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4/10/2023 4:59am Edited Date/Time 4/10/2023 5:21am
Sandusky26 wrote:
I agree with everything. Gypsy asked Chad if he would have difficulty getting parts during covid when every manufacturer was having issues. Chad said nope we...

I agree with everything. Gypsy asked Chad if he would have difficulty getting parts during covid when every manufacturer was having issues. Chad said nope we are dialed.

Don't promise chicken salad when all you have is chicken shit.

It’s just so odd to root for a new type of motorcycle to fail. I want development and new technology in the sport. 

I am rooting for the entire EV movement to fail. Not for any reason other than the ultimate success of EV will result in the inability...

I am rooting for the entire EV movement to fail. Not for any reason other than the ultimate success of EV will result in the inability to use any vehicle that runs on gasoline.  And the ultimate success will require government interference.  I foresee not only the elimination of manufacturers being ALLOWED to sell new gas powered vehicles, but the banning of the use of the vehicles already owned.  Each purchase of an EV is a vote to do away with gas vehicles.  It’s also a vote against the sport you love.  I am one of an enormous segment of MX/off-road people who will never own an EV bike.  I also am not going to watch EV SX or EV MX.  The sport as a whole will take a tremendous hit financially once the EV has been fully forced upon us by the governments of the world.  As of now, that’s s target year of 2035.  Each EV bike purchase is an affirmation to these government bodies goals.  When I first saw that KTM was coming out with tge Freeride I thought it would be cool to have a silent bike.  Now with GM and Harley and Kawasaki ANNOUNCING they will not have a gas powered vehicle in their lineup by that year??  I’m fully in protest of this movement.  If you love MX and think that supporting the EV movement won’t drastically change the sport you love, you should think a little harder.  When there’s nothing but EV MX bikes available you will see an enormous drop in sales of MX bikes as people like me look for a different hobby.  You also might see SX with half empty (or more) stadiums, which could be the demise of SX if that can be imagined.  If the cost of putting on a SX race can’t be covered, they will cease to be put on.  The government wants you to embrace EV.  You want to hold hands with the government as a dirt bike fan?  Good luck with that.  They’d LOVE to outright ban dirt bikes period.  That they can’t do but if they can get all the dirt bikers to follow them into the EV black hole, that’s the next best thing.

EVERYONE - READ THIS DUDE'S POST ^ !!!

Yo, SemiFreeGuy, I mean, not to gloat or anything, but was I fricken' right or was I fricken' right?!!! But never mind my superior cerebral prescience, if you read this dude's post, there's no mistaking his mindset: the only way to keep the sport "pure" is to kill it off entirely, and he's happy to assist in doing exactly that. He freely admits that, eventually, if/when EV bikes become the norm, he won't ride, he won't buy a bike, he won't even watch a pro race from his sofa. He'd rather quit than stick his toes into the icky goo of evolution, and he's rooting for you to do the same. It's as clear as the driven snow. He's kinda like O.J. Simpson: he loves the sport almost too much, and so he has no choice but to stab it to death once it tries to assert it's independence from him.

His post expresses not one single iota of optimism about the future, not a single imagining of how things might actually get better and there might actually be MORE people riding/racing and MORE places to ride/race - he just draws a crystal-clear mental image of a dystopian future where no one is allowed to ride, and even if they could - they shouldn't.

So then, are ya with him? Do ya want moto dead and gone? Or not? 

1
16
APLMAN99
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Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
4/10/2023 5:28am
number six wrote:
So much uncertainty - Red pill / Blue pill .. which reality will the future hold ?   The current debate is reminiscent of ; 'electric starting...

So much uncertainty - Red pill / Blue pill .. which reality will the future hold ?  

The current debate is reminiscent of ; 'electric starting .. on a dirt bike ?'  

Can one be self aware while using a gas can ? 

What is the preferred method of extinguishing a chemical fire ?  

And the most pressing question ; what will be the page count of this thread be by the time at least the 1st hundred Varg's gets delivered to customers ? 

 

Thing is, you don’t have to take either pill…….

Just wait and see what happens. 

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4/10/2023 6:42am Edited Date/Time 4/10/2023 6:42am
crowe660 wrote:
Just pulled these out of the oven if anyone’s interested. Send me your money.   

Just pulled these out of the oven if anyone’s interested. Send me your money. 9CF2B622-37F9-4BDE-AD1E-298311859D9E.jpeg?VersionId=llSGBj8j83JXAJzFxCYDhSvUw7d

 

I trust the authenticity of your claim of this photo, long before I'll believe Stark can deliver 1 customer's bike by the year 2025.

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4
byke
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Auburn, CA, USA
4/10/2023 8:48am
#434 wrote:
I‘ve read the interviews with Pit and his boss and they make sense from their point of view. I also know that your not against eMX...

I‘ve read the interviews with Pit and his boss and they make sense from their point of view. I also know that your not against eMX, just more skeptical than I am.

I just think the time has come that the technology is good and cheap enough to be the better alternative for moto (not off-road). Everybody in moto is just focused on speed and there’s no question that an eMX will be faster than a gas bike (I‘d love to hear some good arguments against that statement). At the same time noise and environmental concerns are the biggest enemies and that would also be fixed by eMXs bikes (at least where I live). 
So in my opinion they‘ll take off and the established manufacturers will bring their own versions soon. 
 

edit: about the Alta: for me the Alta always seemed like the quirky prototype and the Varg looks like the real deal. Looking at the sold/ordered numbers of both, I can’t be the only one. 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
Motocross is a small percentage of the off-road motorcycling world. Perhaps KTM doesn't see the value in investing tens/hundreds of millions of dollars into something where...

Motocross is a small percentage of the off-road motorcycling world. Perhaps KTM doesn't see the value in investing tens/hundreds of millions of dollars into something where it will take an eternity to recapture their capital and turn a profit. With the auto industry, it's different. Hundreds of millions of people drive vehicles every day. As mentioned in my other post, waiting for someone else to prove it's a valuable option makes sense. Alta spent millions of dollars and went bankrupt. Time will tell if Stark will become a success or suffer the same fate as Alta. 

Regarding electric bikes being faster, people are already saying that the 450s are too fast. There are very few amounts of riders who can ride a 450 to its full potential. Building faster bikes that are easier to ride doesn't solve the problem. With no clutch to help control the power delivery, it could spell total disaster for some people. There's a video of Ronnie Renner whisky throttling the Alta. It happened so fast and that's with a very experienced dirt bike rider.    

I have yet to see and hear how the Stark performs in different conditions. All I've seen are them riding the same hard-pack track in Spain. Josh Mosiman rode an Alta in the sand at Club MX and mentioned something along the lines that it wasn't great, and it went nowhere. I no longer ride, but that would be a big concern for me. All we have around my area is sand and deep sand. I would hate to pay 15k for a bike that can't complete a single 20-30 minute moto let alone multiple motos in a day without sitting around for hours waiting for it to recharge. 

I'm not saying that their bike can't perform in different conditions. To my knowledge, they just haven't shown or talked about it.

IMO, beginners on 80HP bikes are a recipe for disaster.

 

One nice thing is, presumably, the ability to tune it to anything you want, provided there's a voice of reason within their riding sphere. But yeah, high hp bikes tend to do more harm than good, imo. Soooo many dudes in the 80's and 90's that bought a 500 because they were bigger guys, wrecked themselves silly, and never rode again. I love those bikes, but overall they did nothing positive for the sport as a whole. 

1
4/10/2023 8:56am Edited Date/Time 4/10/2023 8:57am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Motocross is a small percentage of the off-road motorcycling world. Perhaps KTM doesn't see the value in investing tens/hundreds of millions of dollars into something where...

Motocross is a small percentage of the off-road motorcycling world. Perhaps KTM doesn't see the value in investing tens/hundreds of millions of dollars into something where it will take an eternity to recapture their capital and turn a profit. With the auto industry, it's different. Hundreds of millions of people drive vehicles every day. As mentioned in my other post, waiting for someone else to prove it's a valuable option makes sense. Alta spent millions of dollars and went bankrupt. Time will tell if Stark will become a success or suffer the same fate as Alta. 

Regarding electric bikes being faster, people are already saying that the 450s are too fast. There are very few amounts of riders who can ride a 450 to its full potential. Building faster bikes that are easier to ride doesn't solve the problem. With no clutch to help control the power delivery, it could spell total disaster for some people. There's a video of Ronnie Renner whisky throttling the Alta. It happened so fast and that's with a very experienced dirt bike rider.    

I have yet to see and hear how the Stark performs in different conditions. All I've seen are them riding the same hard-pack track in Spain. Josh Mosiman rode an Alta in the sand at Club MX and mentioned something along the lines that it wasn't great, and it went nowhere. I no longer ride, but that would be a big concern for me. All we have around my area is sand and deep sand. I would hate to pay 15k for a bike that can't complete a single 20-30 minute moto let alone multiple motos in a day without sitting around for hours waiting for it to recharge. 

I'm not saying that their bike can't perform in different conditions. To my knowledge, they just haven't shown or talked about it.

IMO, beginners on 80HP bikes are a recipe for disaster.

 

The bike is CAPABLE of outputting up to 80hp. This isn't an internal combustion engine that's making 80hp. Its an electric powerplant that can be completely customized to produce any power up to a max of 80hp that the rider wants. The 80hp Varg, for example, can be tuned to have 20hp for beginners, and i show this in my recap video with my wife, who has only ridden my Alta once in a dirt parking lot and otherwise never ridden a dirtbike before, rides the "80hp" Varg effortlessly.

Time to get out of the mindset of limitations of gas engines. No longer are you stuck with one engine characteristic. Now you have unlimited engine characteristics all controlled via mapping settings defined by you, the rider. You now have multiple bikes all in one bike.

9
9
Titan1
Posts
9437
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
4/10/2023 9:11am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Motocross is a small percentage of the off-road motorcycling world. Perhaps KTM doesn't see the value in investing tens/hundreds of millions of dollars into something where...

Motocross is a small percentage of the off-road motorcycling world. Perhaps KTM doesn't see the value in investing tens/hundreds of millions of dollars into something where it will take an eternity to recapture their capital and turn a profit. With the auto industry, it's different. Hundreds of millions of people drive vehicles every day. As mentioned in my other post, waiting for someone else to prove it's a valuable option makes sense. Alta spent millions of dollars and went bankrupt. Time will tell if Stark will become a success or suffer the same fate as Alta. 

Regarding electric bikes being faster, people are already saying that the 450s are too fast. There are very few amounts of riders who can ride a 450 to its full potential. Building faster bikes that are easier to ride doesn't solve the problem. With no clutch to help control the power delivery, it could spell total disaster for some people. There's a video of Ronnie Renner whisky throttling the Alta. It happened so fast and that's with a very experienced dirt bike rider.    

I have yet to see and hear how the Stark performs in different conditions. All I've seen are them riding the same hard-pack track in Spain. Josh Mosiman rode an Alta in the sand at Club MX and mentioned something along the lines that it wasn't great, and it went nowhere. I no longer ride, but that would be a big concern for me. All we have around my area is sand and deep sand. I would hate to pay 15k for a bike that can't complete a single 20-30 minute moto let alone multiple motos in a day without sitting around for hours waiting for it to recharge. 

I'm not saying that their bike can't perform in different conditions. To my knowledge, they just haven't shown or talked about it.

IMO, beginners on 80HP bikes are a recipe for disaster.

 
The bike is CAPABLE of outputting up to 80hp. This isn't an internal combustion engine that's making 80hp. Its an electric powerplant that can be completely...

The bike is CAPABLE of outputting up to 80hp. This isn't an internal combustion engine that's making 80hp. Its an electric powerplant that can be completely customized to produce any power up to a max of 80hp that the rider wants. The 80hp Varg, for example, can be tuned to have 20hp for beginners, and i show this in my recap video with my wife, who has only ridden my Alta once in a dirt parking lot and otherwise never ridden a dirtbike before, rides the "80hp" Varg effortlessly.

Time to get out of the mindset of limitations of gas engines. No longer are you stuck with one engine characteristic. Now you have unlimited engine characteristics all controlled via mapping settings defined by you, the rider. You now have multiple bikes all in one bike.

“Now you have unlimited engine characteristics all controlled via mapping settings defined by you, the rider. You now have multiple bikes all in one bike.”


Thats how I feel about my YZ450FX….

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4
4/10/2023 9:31am

80HP is insanity. Star Yamaha YZ450F most likely doesn't have 80hp, and Ferrandis had to de-tune it to be rideable in 2021. That's how he won on that bike.

1
wfopete
Posts
490
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Location
Dover, AR, USA
4/10/2023 9:52am

Somewhere, out there a giant sand hill is saying: "I got your 80hp right here pal".

3
#434
Posts
1913
Joined
3/23/2017
Location
DE
4/10/2023 10:45am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Motocross is a small percentage of the off-road motorcycling world. Perhaps KTM doesn't see the value in investing tens/hundreds of millions of dollars into something where...

Motocross is a small percentage of the off-road motorcycling world. Perhaps KTM doesn't see the value in investing tens/hundreds of millions of dollars into something where it will take an eternity to recapture their capital and turn a profit. With the auto industry, it's different. Hundreds of millions of people drive vehicles every day. As mentioned in my other post, waiting for someone else to prove it's a valuable option makes sense. Alta spent millions of dollars and went bankrupt. Time will tell if Stark will become a success or suffer the same fate as Alta. 

Regarding electric bikes being faster, people are already saying that the 450s are too fast. There are very few amounts of riders who can ride a 450 to its full potential. Building faster bikes that are easier to ride doesn't solve the problem. With no clutch to help control the power delivery, it could spell total disaster for some people. There's a video of Ronnie Renner whisky throttling the Alta. It happened so fast and that's with a very experienced dirt bike rider.    

I have yet to see and hear how the Stark performs in different conditions. All I've seen are them riding the same hard-pack track in Spain. Josh Mosiman rode an Alta in the sand at Club MX and mentioned something along the lines that it wasn't great, and it went nowhere. I no longer ride, but that would be a big concern for me. All we have around my area is sand and deep sand. I would hate to pay 15k for a bike that can't complete a single 20-30 minute moto let alone multiple motos in a day without sitting around for hours waiting for it to recharge. 

I'm not saying that their bike can't perform in different conditions. To my knowledge, they just haven't shown or talked about it.

IMO, beginners on 80HP bikes are a recipe for disaster.

 
The bike is CAPABLE of outputting up to 80hp. This isn't an internal combustion engine that's making 80hp. Its an electric powerplant that can be completely...

The bike is CAPABLE of outputting up to 80hp. This isn't an internal combustion engine that's making 80hp. Its an electric powerplant that can be completely customized to produce any power up to a max of 80hp that the rider wants. The 80hp Varg, for example, can be tuned to have 20hp for beginners, and i show this in my recap video with my wife, who has only ridden my Alta once in a dirt parking lot and otherwise never ridden a dirtbike before, rides the "80hp" Varg effortlessly.

Time to get out of the mindset of limitations of gas engines. No longer are you stuck with one engine characteristic. Now you have unlimited engine characteristics all controlled via mapping settings defined by you, the rider. You now have multiple bikes all in one bike.

Titan1 wrote:
“Now you have unlimited engine characteristics all controlled via mapping settings defined by you, the rider. You now have multiple bikes all in one bike.” Thats...

“Now you have unlimited engine characteristics all controlled via mapping settings defined by you, the rider. You now have multiple bikes all in one bike.”


Thats how I feel about my YZ450FX….

Sure, changing ignition timing by 5 degrees and the mixture by 5% is about the same as having a fully customizable electric motor..

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burn1986
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bossier city, LA, USA
4/10/2023 10:50am Edited Date/Time 4/10/2023 11:10am
The bike is CAPABLE of outputting up to 80hp. This isn't an internal combustion engine that's making 80hp. Its an electric powerplant that can be completely...

The bike is CAPABLE of outputting up to 80hp. This isn't an internal combustion engine that's making 80hp. Its an electric powerplant that can be completely customized to produce any power up to a max of 80hp that the rider wants. The 80hp Varg, for example, can be tuned to have 20hp for beginners, and i show this in my recap video with my wife, who has only ridden my Alta once in a dirt parking lot and otherwise never ridden a dirtbike before, rides the "80hp" Varg effortlessly.

Time to get out of the mindset of limitations of gas engines. No longer are you stuck with one engine characteristic. Now you have unlimited engine characteristics all controlled via mapping settings defined by you, the rider. You now have multiple bikes all in one bike.

Maybe, but I think Stark is having problems with product delivery. And it’s a little pricey 

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mikelawlor
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Johnsonville, NY, USA
4/10/2023 10:55am

Ok all I thought about after watching that go pro video is what happens if you crash and the phone on the bars gets smashed to shit? Will your bike still work? It will but your bike will be stuck in what ever settings it was last in? How much is a new phone/control unit? And how long will it take to get one?  I think it’s a cool idea but it might need a little better protection. 

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4/10/2023 10:59am
mikelawlor wrote:
Ok all I thought about after watching that go pro video is what happens if you crash and the phone on the bars gets smashed to...

Ok all I thought about after watching that go pro video is what happens if you crash and the phone on the bars gets smashed to shit? Will your bike still work? It will but your bike will be stuck in what ever settings it was last in? How much is a new phone/control unit? And how long will it take to get one?  I think it’s a cool idea but it might need a little better protection. 

The phone is independent of the bike and the bike will work just fine without the phone mounted in the traditional barpad location. You'll be able to load 5 power maps onto the bike that can be toggled via the map switch on the handlebars. I suspect some people will opt to replace the cellphone mount with a traditional barpad, at the sacrifice of being able to see bike telemetry in real time, including battery %.

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8500rpm
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4/10/2023 12:07pm

Thanks for the video @theycallmeebryan ! Looks like a fun bike, reminds me of riding the KTM Freeride except the Varg has power to clear the jumps and better suspension Smile

 

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davis224
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Cornland, IL, USA
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4/10/2023 12:31pm

So, video description says "plenty of battery left" after the 15 minute moto, how much is plenty? 70%? 20%? I just want to know how long it can go with an average A/B rider at 65hp.

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4/10/2023 12:42pm
mikelawlor wrote:
Ok all I thought about after watching that go pro video is what happens if you crash and the phone on the bars gets smashed to...

Ok all I thought about after watching that go pro video is what happens if you crash and the phone on the bars gets smashed to shit? Will your bike still work? It will but your bike will be stuck in what ever settings it was last in? How much is a new phone/control unit? And how long will it take to get one?  I think it’s a cool idea but it might need a little better protection. 

Even if it was similar price to a iPhone or droid,  crashing a 4 stroke and destroying the exhaust would result in a similar expense and depending on what bike you have, could be as hard  or harder to locate a replacement. 

 

I really wish that more people would go out and try a fast  ,electric powered vehicle. An Alta,  go to an indoor go kart track with  some fast electric carts, take a ride in a tesla.  The power delivery  of electric is totally customizable to the point that you can get new riders on a bike that they can ride and add power as they are more comfortable. 

 

For shorter distances Electric makes a lot of sense. Cars , motorcycles, etc. So this being a Motocross bike , if it can do a 20 or 25 plus 2 lap moto . That would be what most people who are buying them would be doing if they are racing. 

 

I know its not a number of delivered units, but if you compare the 50K 2 strokes that KTM sold , to 18K orders for Vargs. I think that its crazy to think that other manufacturers are not working on full sized Electric dirt bikes right now. If a startup company that has not delivered a single bike as of when I write this, can get that many orders. Imagine if Honda , KTM, or one of the big companies  put out a bike that was similar. Or even something like the Alta  with the support network of dealers they already have. I imagine they would sell as many as they sell 2 strokes. Maybe not. But if those 18K pore orders thurn into 18K sold bikes then I bet that there is some competition in a couple years. 

 

Like I have said,and others have said. It takes many years from concept to production for a new motorcycle to come out. So if Honda , Yamaha,Kawasaki etc plan on having electric bikes by 2025 , they have already been working on them and are close to a final version .

 

As far as not posting about a Varg in the general Motocross section. I feel like you could say that about a Suron style bike , or a bike that was not designed to go head to head with 450's. It is being designed and marketed to be a Motocross bike. Should 2 stroke talk be limited to its own section too? Since most of the SX and MX pros are riding 4 strokes these days . And that 50K number of units sold by KTM  VS 18K pre order or whatever you wanna call the Varg sales . That shows me there is enough interest in a full sized electric motocross bike to be posted about in a general moto section if 2 strokes cal also be talked about. Maybe electric MX bikes never take off, and are just beginner bikes and backyard track bikes. Time will tell.

 

I just think that having the option can open up new places to ride, new riders to the sport, and a lot of other positives. As much as I am Pro EV, I am also Pro Diesel , and Pro 2 stroke , 4 stroke , they all have places in the sport. I think that some of the issues 4 strokes caused by added sound, can be relieved with Electric. But if you hate Electric, that's fine. I just do not understand how somebody can hate anything they have never tried before?   There will always be pros and cons to anything. Whenever you just look at the cons of one side, and the pros of the other, its easy to miss out .

 

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KurtJ99
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USA
4/10/2023 12:56pm

When is autopilot feature coming out? Might want to eat a pizza, take a nap, whatever during a moto.

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4/10/2023 2:32pm

I think that latest test video was solid. 
I could do that for 10-15mins and have a blast. Throw it on a charger and go do it again. 
 

I thought hearing the tires and traction was very cool. I eMTB now so you pick up on those things more. The fun is the two wheels if it wasn’t we would just rev chain saws. 😬
 

eMX is going to be very popular. Way more people will enter the sport. 
 

ICE will always be an option just like 2 strokes vs. 4 stroke. 

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APLMAN99
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Tualatin, OR, USA
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4/10/2023 2:55pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Motocross is a small percentage of the off-road motorcycling world. Perhaps KTM doesn't see the value in investing tens/hundreds of millions of dollars into something where...

Motocross is a small percentage of the off-road motorcycling world. Perhaps KTM doesn't see the value in investing tens/hundreds of millions of dollars into something where it will take an eternity to recapture their capital and turn a profit. With the auto industry, it's different. Hundreds of millions of people drive vehicles every day. As mentioned in my other post, waiting for someone else to prove it's a valuable option makes sense. Alta spent millions of dollars and went bankrupt. Time will tell if Stark will become a success or suffer the same fate as Alta. 

Regarding electric bikes being faster, people are already saying that the 450s are too fast. There are very few amounts of riders who can ride a 450 to its full potential. Building faster bikes that are easier to ride doesn't solve the problem. With no clutch to help control the power delivery, it could spell total disaster for some people. There's a video of Ronnie Renner whisky throttling the Alta. It happened so fast and that's with a very experienced dirt bike rider.    

I have yet to see and hear how the Stark performs in different conditions. All I've seen are them riding the same hard-pack track in Spain. Josh Mosiman rode an Alta in the sand at Club MX and mentioned something along the lines that it wasn't great, and it went nowhere. I no longer ride, but that would be a big concern for me. All we have around my area is sand and deep sand. I would hate to pay 15k for a bike that can't complete a single 20-30 minute moto let alone multiple motos in a day without sitting around for hours waiting for it to recharge. 

I'm not saying that their bike can't perform in different conditions. To my knowledge, they just haven't shown or talked about it.

IMO, beginners on 80HP bikes are a recipe for disaster.

 
The bike is CAPABLE of outputting up to 80hp. This isn't an internal combustion engine that's making 80hp. Its an electric powerplant that can be completely...

The bike is CAPABLE of outputting up to 80hp. This isn't an internal combustion engine that's making 80hp. Its an electric powerplant that can be completely customized to produce any power up to a max of 80hp that the rider wants. The 80hp Varg, for example, can be tuned to have 20hp for beginners, and i show this in my recap video with my wife, who has only ridden my Alta once in a dirt parking lot and otherwise never ridden a dirtbike before, rides the "80hp" Varg effortlessly.

Time to get out of the mindset of limitations of gas engines. No longer are you stuck with one engine characteristic. Now you have unlimited engine characteristics all controlled via mapping settings defined by you, the rider. You now have multiple bikes all in one bike.

Based on that last video, I think that I could probably get about 8-10 hours of riding time at my speed......!

Thanks for the updates and hopefully the first batches of bikes to deliver are top quality.  Nothing could be worse than trying to hit delivery dates and sending out product that isn't ready.  Glad that these guys seem to be seeing the big picture, not just a short-term deadline.  

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