Stark Varg Reviews

sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 6/10/2022 7:22pm
6/10/2022 7:22pm
Falcon wrote:
I am all about this bike. I rarely pound out 30-min motos, (never,) so the range isn't a consideration for me. (Unless it really is only...
I am all about this bike.

I rarely pound out 30-min motos, (never,) so the range isn't a consideration for me. (Unless it really is only 4 laps or something; we'll see.)

I hate 4-strokes and hate that development of the 2-strokes ceased when thumpers arrived. Something new and different than a thumper with modern componentry and geometry is a welcome choice.

I love that you can alter the engine characteristics on the Varg.





DGE.532 wrote:
Exactly all these goons acting like they can pound laps like tomac for hours at a time are hilarious 😂.
Haha yes. I’m no slouch, I ride smooth but at a decent pace. I will do a 40 minute moto in the sand and be almost embarrassed how much gas is left in the tank. For 98 percent of people, you’d likely never need more range than what they promise. If you ride off road, turn the power down and it will last hours. If you ride MX, I doubt you’re wide open in sand for 35 minutes, and, even then it will probably last.
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wr74
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wr74 6/10/2022 7:23pm
6/10/2022 7:23pm
Magoofan wrote:
Impressed by the technology. However..... There being no sound....or just the "motor whine". Absolutely horrible. I'm a lifer for 2-srokes.... at least 4-strokes make sound that...
Impressed by the technology. However.....

There being no sound....or just the "motor whine". Absolutely horrible.
I'm a lifer for 2-srokes.... at least 4-strokes make sound that brings excitement. Listening to that thing go around the track. Boring level 11. It takes all the excitement out of being a spectator. This is the death of the 2s/4s bikes...and the death of the sport in my book. Laws are going to banish gas bikes sooner or later anyway.

One last observatoin....it has more power than a 450. Just what we need....more people getting injured. More pros getting injured and out for the season. 450's already have TOO much power.

Flame on. Don't care.


wr74 wrote:
I agree with one thing, e bikes will be the death of pro sx / mx as we know it. Firstly, no one wants to watch...
I agree with one thing, e bikes will be the death of pro sx / mx as we know it.

Firstly, no one wants to watch a bunch of silent bikes go around a track. It’s not until you lose something (the sound) that you realise how critical it is to the excitement of spectating motocross.

Secondly, if stark comes into sx/mx before the Japanese and Ktm have an equivalent e bike, I think they will all walk away from pro racing. Don’t laugh, it has happened in many other forms of Motorsport with bigger followings than mx.

If they allow this bike to compete against 250/450’s, it is possible it will completely dominate in a short period of time. How long do you think Honda / Ktm etc. will put up with spending millions to see their bikes being embarrassed on a weekly basis?

The bike sounds amazing. I think it could do great things for participation at the local amateur level. So the sport will not die. But pro racing may be a totally different equation.
zookrider62! wrote:
Imagine going to a supercross and actually being able to have a phone call, or talk to your friend about what’s happening at the race, or...
Imagine going to a supercross and actually being able to have a phone call, or talk to your friend about what’s happening at the race, or hearing the crowd cheat.

If stark beats the others, and they leave, don’t let the door hit you? They all should be real embarrassed right now that a company no one has ever heard of is doing what they cant
Well, I take your point at SX, regards the lack of sound. I was more referring to MX. It will turn MX into glorified mountain bike racing. And how many spectators do MTB events get ?
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Dirty Points 6/10/2022 7:41pm
6/10/2022 7:41pm Edited Date/Time 6/11/2022 8:14am
wr74 wrote:
I agree with one thing, e bikes will be the death of pro sx / mx as we know it. Firstly, no one wants to watch...
I agree with one thing, e bikes will be the death of pro sx / mx as we know it.

Firstly, no one wants to watch a bunch of silent bikes go around a track. It’s not until you lose something (the sound) that you realise how critical it is to the excitement of spectating motocross.

Secondly, if stark comes into sx/mx before the Japanese and Ktm have an equivalent e bike, I think they will all walk away from pro racing. Don’t laugh, it has happened in many other forms of Motorsport with bigger followings than mx.

If they allow this bike to compete against 250/450’s, it is possible it will completely dominate in a short period of time. How long do you think Honda / Ktm etc. will put up with spending millions to see their bikes being embarrassed on a weekly basis?

The bike sounds amazing. I think it could do great things for participation at the local amateur level. So the sport will not die. But pro racing may be a totally different equation.
zookrider62! wrote:
Imagine going to a supercross and actually being able to have a phone call, or talk to your friend about what’s happening at the race, or...
Imagine going to a supercross and actually being able to have a phone call, or talk to your friend about what’s happening at the race, or hearing the crowd cheat.

If stark beats the others, and they leave, don’t let the door hit you? They all should be real embarrassed right now that a company no one has ever heard of is doing what they cant
wr74 wrote:
Well, I take your point at SX, regards the lack of sound. I was more referring to MX. It will turn MX into glorified mountain bike...
Well, I take your point at SX, regards the lack of sound. I was more referring to MX. It will turn MX into glorified mountain bike racing. And how many spectators do MTB events get ?
Honestly, it's kinda similar. 15k or so.
CASH476
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CASH476 6/10/2022 7:41pm
6/10/2022 7:41pm
yota wrote:
battery pack looks huge.
Permeance_Flux wrote:
Cosmetically speaking, that battery is not easy on the eyes at all. Something out of that 80’s movie Total Recall
It looks like it's out of an 80's movie because Total Recall was set in the future.
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CASH476
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CASH476 6/10/2022 7:58pm
6/10/2022 7:58pm
gt80rider wrote:
Just watched the vital video on the Stark.... Couple things... Vital says "no maintenance"... LOL.... and that may be true for a while... but motor bearings...
Just watched the vital video on the Stark....

Couple things...

Vital says "no maintenance"... LOL.... and that may be true for a while... but motor bearings love to die at the worst time... also.... Vital doesn't mention motor, ESC, or battery temps after their quick initial ride... but if any one of those gets a bit too high.... bad things will happen (read - expensive smoke).... I'm very interested in the temps.... sub 140 on the motor and battery would be ideal....

Also... Vital says the Stark was a bit soft off the bottom and took a bit to build power.... what that says to me is "the speed controller programming is set very soft down low"... naturally all these motors are absolute monsters right off the bottom.. you have to program the ESC not to be so gnarly if you want "not insane" power right off the bottom.... the downside with that is.... all that power has to come out sometime... which means they've shifted the bulk of the power up top.... and while I have not ridden the bike.... I can only imagine how hard it comes on when the electronic flood gates open.....



The bike is a bit soft off the bottom because it doesn't have a lot of power until it gets some rev's up. While electronics can be set to have more than 100% (rated) power at low motor speeds and taper off as power builds, without selectable gearing or a clutch to help build rev's this is always going to be the case

For most riders and tracks this is probably not an issue but like every other bike it's not going to suit everyone.
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zookrider62!
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zookrider62! 6/10/2022 8:05pm
6/10/2022 8:05pm
wr74 wrote:
I agree with one thing, e bikes will be the death of pro sx / mx as we know it. Firstly, no one wants to watch...
I agree with one thing, e bikes will be the death of pro sx / mx as we know it.

Firstly, no one wants to watch a bunch of silent bikes go around a track. It’s not until you lose something (the sound) that you realise how critical it is to the excitement of spectating motocross.

Secondly, if stark comes into sx/mx before the Japanese and Ktm have an equivalent e bike, I think they will all walk away from pro racing. Don’t laugh, it has happened in many other forms of Motorsport with bigger followings than mx.

If they allow this bike to compete against 250/450’s, it is possible it will completely dominate in a short period of time. How long do you think Honda / Ktm etc. will put up with spending millions to see their bikes being embarrassed on a weekly basis?

The bike sounds amazing. I think it could do great things for participation at the local amateur level. So the sport will not die. But pro racing may be a totally different equation.
zookrider62! wrote:
Imagine going to a supercross and actually being able to have a phone call, or talk to your friend about what’s happening at the race, or...
Imagine going to a supercross and actually being able to have a phone call, or talk to your friend about what’s happening at the race, or hearing the crowd cheat.

If stark beats the others, and they leave, don’t let the door hit you? They all should be real embarrassed right now that a company no one has ever heard of is doing what they cant
wr74 wrote:
Well, I take your point at SX, regards the lack of sound. I was more referring to MX. It will turn MX into glorified mountain bike...
Well, I take your point at SX, regards the lack of sound. I was more referring to MX. It will turn MX into glorified mountain bike racing. And how many spectators do MTB events get ?
When there’s two supercross series up and running, the last thing motocross needs to be worried about is sound effecting attendance
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garagedog 6/10/2022 8:45pm
6/10/2022 8:45pm Edited Date/Time 6/10/2022 8:48pm









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Fog 25
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Fog 25 6/10/2022 8:59pm
6/10/2022 8:59pm
woody woodpecker wrote:
How do you guys think this will perform through a set of whoops? I imagine an electric bike would be faster through whoops but maybe I'm...
How do you guys think this will perform through a set of whoops? I imagine an electric bike would be faster through whoops but maybe I'm wrong. If it is it might do really well in supercross, I mean it's obviously going to destroy all other bikes off the start.
Been on a Alta for four years. A e-bike will kill a a gas bike in the whoops because they will stay straight and continue accelerating until you shut the throttle off. Same reason a e-bike is faster on the the end of a straightaway because there’s no speed (gear) top out at the end of the straightaway.
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Dirty Points 6/10/2022 9:13pm
6/10/2022 9:13pm
garagedog wrote:
[img]https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/edsel.jpeg[/img] [img]https://www.classicandsportscar.com/sites/default/files/styles/article/public/2019-11/classic_and_sports_car_buyers_guide_delorean_DMC_12_TB_lead.png?itok=Ezo9aXEq[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/04/18/csteel50_1_970227.jpg[/img] [img]https://cdn1.mecum.com/auctions/lv0121/lv0121-435445/images/lv21-f30-2-1615918384020@2x.jpg?1616020066000[/img] [img]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/J_r2zku9QHU/maxresdefault.jpg[/img] [img]https://rxi.iscdn.net/2021/12/238909_ext_starkf_varg_static_side.jpg[/img]









Those last two pics really drive home how much this bike looks like a 2nd gen Alta (and by all accounts the first was quite good).
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psychotronBR 6/10/2022 9:20pm
6/10/2022 9:20pm
"It's fast"

You fly a dude all the way over there, to post a shit edit like that and call it a day. I really don’t get it.
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Dirty Points 6/10/2022 9:28pm
6/10/2022 9:28pm
psychotronBR wrote:
"It's fast" You fly a dude all the way over there, to post a shit edit like that and call it a day. I really don’t...
"It's fast"

You fly a dude all the way over there, to post a shit edit like that and call it a day. I really don’t get it.
Still better than when we used to fly everyone to Japanese Nationals to see a blurry black and white photo of a slightly different geometry of shock linkage.
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limepandanz 6/10/2022 11:03pm
6/10/2022 11:03pm
lee82 wrote:
$4000 seems a little high... I'm hoping for $1500-2000 for a battery in 5 years (when I'll likely need it).
I'm not an expert, but have a bit of exposure to this stuff through electric skateboarding. I would hazard a guess and say they are using 21700 size cells. Probably in the region of 400 cells total to get 6kwh. Take a cell that would perform well in this application like the Molicell P42a @ approx $5 per cell equals $2,000 for just the cells (and they may well be looking at $7+ per cell if they need something specific). Then you need someone to spot weld the cells into a pack and install it, so I would budget at least $500 for labour and materials, maybe more depending on how proprietary and difficult Stark make it. So realistically once including transport and tax I can't see even an aftermarket replacement pack being available for less than $3,000. I assume Stark will add in a profit margin for the factory replacements they will offer too.
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limepandanz 6/10/2022 11:10pm
6/10/2022 11:10pm
StevenMX wrote:
Yep, I did a lot of product testing for Thunder Power batteries and other manufacturers while I flew RC (heli/planes) for 2 decades. I've ballooned batteries...
Yep, I did a lot of product testing for Thunder Power batteries and other manufacturers while I flew RC (heli/planes) for 2 decades. I've ballooned batteries and watched them explode charging at 8C, etc. I'd imagine with the Stark platform it's been well thought out, the tech has improved in the areas of keeping battery temperatures stable under different conditions. Just need to understand the cost of replacement battery and cycle life of these packs to get the full picture. At $500 a pack, if you got 200 cycles you'd be punching above 450 class rebuild cost easily given no oil filters/oil changes, that's 150 ride hrs etc.

Battery looks like it takes 160 cells (if they are using 21700 cell Li-Ion/LiFE whatever).. although I can't find a 21700 cell at 6,000mAh anywhere)... @~$10 a cell (Samsung 50S) from doing a quick look at some basic batteries it's $1,600 + if we were to go out and buy the batteries. Can't fully calculate it based on not knowing exact cell chemistry/manufacturer ( I'd wager Panasonic though).

That render shows 19 rows of 10 cells, and is only half of the total battery pack (see pic below). Should be around 380 cells total which seems right as I had independently calculated around 390-400 depending on what they use.


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loftyair
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loftyair 6/10/2022 11:22pm
6/10/2022 11:22pm
Alta was improving the bike fast. A '22 would be the chit. A few years from now, varg will be awesome, as long as their moto-vated.
I'm actually glad the sx\mx (4-stroke) sound will be gone!
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Magoofan
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Magoofan 6/10/2022 11:48pm
6/10/2022 11:48pm Edited Date/Time 6/10/2022 11:52pm
zookrider62! wrote:
Imagine going to a supercross and actually being able to have a phone call, or talk to your friend about what’s happening at the race, or...
Imagine going to a supercross and actually being able to have a phone call, or talk to your friend about what’s happening at the race, or hearing the crowd cheat.

If stark beats the others, and they leave, don’t let the door hit you? They all should be real embarrassed right now that a company no one has ever heard of is doing what they cant
Sounds like you're not engaged to me. If I go to a race, my phone is OFF...and I'm not talking to whoever I'm with DURING the race. I'm not there to focus on anything else. I'm there for the experience....that includes all 5 senses. If I want to hear whirring noises, I'll take up watching drone racing.
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Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 6/11/2022 5:53am
6/11/2022 5:53am
JB 19 wrote:
How does Tesla handle these issues with cars? I'm honestly asking because cars are used in a much broad range of conditions than an RC car.
The conditions a RC car are used in are more comparable to a dirt bike than a Tesla is. Nobody is out beating the shit out of their Tesla driving it wide open everywhere they go. RC cars are quite high performance and a lot of the issues seen there will be common with dirt bikes. Wait until people start cycling their batteries and charging them at a 10C rate to heat up the cells and get more power out of the battery. Fires, puffing… good times.
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Dirty Points 6/11/2022 6:35am
6/11/2022 6:35am Edited Date/Time 6/11/2022 7:05am
JB 19 wrote:
How does Tesla handle these issues with cars? I'm honestly asking because cars are used in a much broad range of conditions than an RC car.
Mr. Afterbar wrote:
The conditions a RC car are used in are more comparable to a dirt bike than a Tesla is. Nobody is out beating the shit out...
The conditions a RC car are used in are more comparable to a dirt bike than a Tesla is. Nobody is out beating the shit out of their Tesla driving it wide open everywhere they go. RC cars are quite high performance and a lot of the issues seen there will be common with dirt bikes. Wait until people start cycling their batteries and charging them at a 10C rate to heat up the cells and get more power out of the battery. Fires, puffing… good times.
Only the very top level pros ever go at a dirtbike throttle even vaguely like an RC car driver would.

All that bravado to grab a handfull is a lot easier when it's another object controlled by joystick versus when it's you in the cockpit choosing to hurdle that 50 footer.

I would guess an average B/C MX rider spends less than 5% of their time at full throttle. Probably a bit more than a Tesla (maybe 2% of the time for an aggressive driver), but somewhat close to the use profile. I would bet a B/C equivalent RC driver is probably at full throttle 60% or more of the time, which would be patently insane for most dirt bike riders.
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 6/11/2022 7:00am
6/11/2022 7:00am
Added Motorcyclist Magazine video with Aaron Colton.

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Titan1
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Titan1 6/11/2022 7:17am
6/11/2022 7:17am
Titan1 wrote:
🤔🙄 what are you even talking about? Buying, or not, this bike is in no way any form badge of honor…you are way to emotionally invested...
🤔🙄 what are you even talking about? Buying, or not, this bike is in no way any form badge of honor…you are way to emotionally invested in this bike…seriously, you need to take a few deep breaths and take a time out or something. You sound crazy…
Silas444 wrote:
This will be my last bit with you, as I now perceive a decided lack of potential upside. There is recurring thread that appears on this...
This will be my last bit with you, as I now perceive a decided lack of potential upside.

There is recurring thread that appears on this site called "Spoke With My Wallet." What it is, in a nutshell, is a way of rewarding a company's decision to design and manufacture a certain bike, by demonstrating a willingness to purchase it. In no uncertain terms, the buyers of these bikes see their purchases as affirmations, as declarations, as "badges of honor." Well, I agree with their perceptions. I think our industry is one where our bike purchases carry emotion as a matter of course, for passion is an integral part of our sport. You're nothing like that, you're dry as an empty husk, this much is now clear. Okay fine, no worries - BUT - the Stark Varg has had it's testing sessions unveiled today and the reviews were nothing short of raves. So then, maybe - MAYBE - just take one day before you surrender to your need to voice your doubt regarding it's abilities? Maybe - MAYBE - wait one day before stating your desire to wait for a more established company to build one like it? Hmmmm? These are my thoughts, and if I, or my thoughts, seem crazy to you, you'll hopefully understand that I perceive no offense.

Because I don't.

Peace out.
I haven’t doubted it’s abilities…I’ve brought up range, which is either an unknown in the reviews that I watched or at least mentioned as a possible concern (100x larger concern for an off road rider like me)…and that I’m not a fan of buying from a start up, which is my personal opinion and nothing more.

And you are reacting like I’m calling the bike crap and that it will ruin the sport or something, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Simmer down bro…
bents
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bents 6/11/2022 7:44am
6/11/2022 7:44am
I was at my local shop last week and there was a cylinder with a piston wedged sideways all broken up, in the most grotesque way. Turns out it was from a 2022 Honda CRF 450-dude went to change his oil, put the oil filter in backwards, and blew it into the stratosphere. The bike was bought for parts and the repair bill was going to be over 6k just for parts alone, so 4k for a replacement battery pack doesn't look so bad by contrast.

After reading and watching the opinions from the beginning of this Stark thing, I have come to the conclusion that this thing, like every other dirt bike of it's time, is MORE than enough for the 99% of us ham and eggers. I'm thrilled to have another player in the industry, and I hope Triumph brings another viable option. I love the fact that I could ride the Stark on a small piece of property with my buddies and not bother a soul, as we take frequent breaks and pretend that we were really on the gas.....

I'm not riding Lommel, but I would sure love to make the trip to watch Herlings work his magic. The Stark will be gas to ride (see what I did there?), and I am quite confident that I will not be left stranded at the far end of the track because I ran out of charge. I put a deposit on one and I intend to follow through based on everything I have seen. Pass the koolaid and my extension cord. Looks like a blast. From a 1975 Suzuki TM100 to this bad boy-cool beans.
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vdrsnk04
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vdrsnk04 6/11/2022 8:06am
6/11/2022 8:06am Edited Date/Time 6/11/2022 8:07am
Titan1 wrote:
🤔🙄 what are you even talking about? Buying, or not, this bike is in no way any form badge of honor…you are way to emotionally invested...
🤔🙄 what are you even talking about? Buying, or not, this bike is in no way any form badge of honor…you are way to emotionally invested in this bike…seriously, you need to take a few deep breaths and take a time out or something. You sound crazy…
Silas444 wrote:
This will be my last bit with you, as I now perceive a decided lack of potential upside. There is recurring thread that appears on this...
This will be my last bit with you, as I now perceive a decided lack of potential upside.

There is recurring thread that appears on this site called "Spoke With My Wallet." What it is, in a nutshell, is a way of rewarding a company's decision to design and manufacture a certain bike, by demonstrating a willingness to purchase it. In no uncertain terms, the buyers of these bikes see their purchases as affirmations, as declarations, as "badges of honor." Well, I agree with their perceptions. I think our industry is one where our bike purchases carry emotion as a matter of course, for passion is an integral part of our sport. You're nothing like that, you're dry as an empty husk, this much is now clear. Okay fine, no worries - BUT - the Stark Varg has had it's testing sessions unveiled today and the reviews were nothing short of raves. So then, maybe - MAYBE - just take one day before you surrender to your need to voice your doubt regarding it's abilities? Maybe - MAYBE - wait one day before stating your desire to wait for a more established company to build one like it? Hmmmm? These are my thoughts, and if I, or my thoughts, seem crazy to you, you'll hopefully understand that I perceive no offense.

Because I don't.

Peace out.
Titan1 wrote:
I haven’t doubted it’s abilities…I’ve brought up range, which is either an unknown in the reviews that I watched or at least mentioned as a possible...
I haven’t doubted it’s abilities…I’ve brought up range, which is either an unknown in the reviews that I watched or at least mentioned as a possible concern (100x larger concern for an off road rider like me)…and that I’m not a fan of buying from a start up, which is my personal opinion and nothing more.

And you are reacting like I’m calling the bike crap and that it will ruin the sport or something, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Simmer down bro…
Your comments are kinda silly though.

That’s like saying I can’t use my ktm 300 tpi when I dual sport ride in Colorado because it doesn’t have the fuel range or the top end speed my Husqvarna 501 has.

Well it would still do the job, just not as well as my 501, so I ride my 501 there.

Same reason I hard enduro ride my ktm 300 and not my Husqvarna 501.

Same reason I MX my crf250r and not the other bikes I just mentioned. It’s what it’s built for.

There is a tool built for every job for a reason.

And I don’t think from what I can tell that Stark built theirs for your application. But what it was built for, it appears it will work well.
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Titan1
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Titan1 6/11/2022 8:16am
6/11/2022 8:16am Edited Date/Time 6/11/2022 8:18am
Silas444 wrote:
This will be my last bit with you, as I now perceive a decided lack of potential upside. There is recurring thread that appears on this...
This will be my last bit with you, as I now perceive a decided lack of potential upside.

There is recurring thread that appears on this site called "Spoke With My Wallet." What it is, in a nutshell, is a way of rewarding a company's decision to design and manufacture a certain bike, by demonstrating a willingness to purchase it. In no uncertain terms, the buyers of these bikes see their purchases as affirmations, as declarations, as "badges of honor." Well, I agree with their perceptions. I think our industry is one where our bike purchases carry emotion as a matter of course, for passion is an integral part of our sport. You're nothing like that, you're dry as an empty husk, this much is now clear. Okay fine, no worries - BUT - the Stark Varg has had it's testing sessions unveiled today and the reviews were nothing short of raves. So then, maybe - MAYBE - just take one day before you surrender to your need to voice your doubt regarding it's abilities? Maybe - MAYBE - wait one day before stating your desire to wait for a more established company to build one like it? Hmmmm? These are my thoughts, and if I, or my thoughts, seem crazy to you, you'll hopefully understand that I perceive no offense.

Because I don't.

Peace out.
Titan1 wrote:
I haven’t doubted it’s abilities…I’ve brought up range, which is either an unknown in the reviews that I watched or at least mentioned as a possible...
I haven’t doubted it’s abilities…I’ve brought up range, which is either an unknown in the reviews that I watched or at least mentioned as a possible concern (100x larger concern for an off road rider like me)…and that I’m not a fan of buying from a start up, which is my personal opinion and nothing more.

And you are reacting like I’m calling the bike crap and that it will ruin the sport or something, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Simmer down bro…
vdrsnk04 wrote:
Your comments are kinda silly though. That’s like saying I can’t use my ktm 300 tpi when I dual sport ride in Colorado because it doesn’t...
Your comments are kinda silly though.

That’s like saying I can’t use my ktm 300 tpi when I dual sport ride in Colorado because it doesn’t have the fuel range or the top end speed my Husqvarna 501 has.

Well it would still do the job, just not as well as my 501, so I ride my 501 there.

Same reason I hard enduro ride my ktm 300 and not my Husqvarna 501.

Same reason I MX my crf250r and not the other bikes I just mentioned. It’s what it’s built for.

There is a tool built for every job for a reason.

And I don’t think from what I can tell that Stark built theirs for your application. But what it was built for, it appears it will work well.
Okay…valid point. Though they do-or will-have an “off-road” model/option…and…a huge percentage of bikes currently ridden off road are motocross bikes…So it seems more relevant than your example…

But even so, if you do hard enduro and everyone is over the moon about the new husky 501, and how it’s the best thing ever…and you say it looks like an awesome bike, one day you’d like to own one, but you wouldn’t buy one now because you do hard enduro, and someone starts claiming you said the 501 is trash, and that you need to have more blind faith, and buy it as a badge of honor…wouldn’t you think they were kind of crazy, and try and explain yourself?
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davis224
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davis224 6/11/2022 8:18am
6/11/2022 8:18am
Titan1 wrote:
🤔🙄 what are you even talking about? Buying, or not, this bike is in no way any form badge of honor…you are way to emotionally invested...
🤔🙄 what are you even talking about? Buying, or not, this bike is in no way any form badge of honor…you are way to emotionally invested in this bike…seriously, you need to take a few deep breaths and take a time out or something. You sound crazy…
Silas444 wrote:
This will be my last bit with you, as I now perceive a decided lack of potential upside. There is recurring thread that appears on this...
This will be my last bit with you, as I now perceive a decided lack of potential upside.

There is recurring thread that appears on this site called "Spoke With My Wallet." What it is, in a nutshell, is a way of rewarding a company's decision to design and manufacture a certain bike, by demonstrating a willingness to purchase it. In no uncertain terms, the buyers of these bikes see their purchases as affirmations, as declarations, as "badges of honor." Well, I agree with their perceptions. I think our industry is one where our bike purchases carry emotion as a matter of course, for passion is an integral part of our sport. You're nothing like that, you're dry as an empty husk, this much is now clear. Okay fine, no worries - BUT - the Stark Varg has had it's testing sessions unveiled today and the reviews were nothing short of raves. So then, maybe - MAYBE - just take one day before you surrender to your need to voice your doubt regarding it's abilities? Maybe - MAYBE - wait one day before stating your desire to wait for a more established company to build one like it? Hmmmm? These are my thoughts, and if I, or my thoughts, seem crazy to you, you'll hopefully understand that I perceive no offense.

Because I don't.

Peace out.
Titan1 wrote:
I haven’t doubted it’s abilities…I’ve brought up range, which is either an unknown in the reviews that I watched or at least mentioned as a possible...
I haven’t doubted it’s abilities…I’ve brought up range, which is either an unknown in the reviews that I watched or at least mentioned as a possible concern (100x larger concern for an off road rider like me)…and that I’m not a fan of buying from a start up, which is my personal opinion and nothing more.

And you are reacting like I’m calling the bike crap and that it will ruin the sport or something, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Simmer down bro…
You're both right. You just have different wants. For what you want, it's just not there yet. For what he wants, it looks like a home run.
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zookrider62!
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zookrider62! 6/11/2022 8:31am
6/11/2022 8:31am
zookrider62! wrote:
Imagine going to a supercross and actually being able to have a phone call, or talk to your friend about what’s happening at the race, or...
Imagine going to a supercross and actually being able to have a phone call, or talk to your friend about what’s happening at the race, or hearing the crowd cheat.

If stark beats the others, and they leave, don’t let the door hit you? They all should be real embarrassed right now that a company no one has ever heard of is doing what they cant
Magoofan wrote:
Sounds like you're not engaged to me. If I go to a race, my phone is OFF...and I'm not talking to whoever I'm with DURING the...
Sounds like you're not engaged to me. If I go to a race, my phone is OFF...and I'm not talking to whoever I'm with DURING the race. I'm not there to focus on anything else. I'm there for the experience....that includes all 5 senses. If I want to hear whirring noises, I'll take up watching drone racing.
Couldn’t be further off my friend.

I like going to practice, seeing who is putting in a heater and pointing it out to my friends. Watching a guy eye up a new rhythm and again pointing it out.

My most recent supercross, was my wife and kids going for the first time (they aren’t heavy into Moto). Sure would have been nice to point out what’s happening or explain the flags, but that ain’t happening in today’s Moto.

Growing the sport by having new people not be able to hear a damn thing is not the way.
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loftyair
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loftyair 6/11/2022 9:14am
6/11/2022 9:14am
zookrider62! wrote:
Couldn’t be further off my friend. I like going to practice, seeing who is putting in a heater and pointing it out to my friends. Watching...
Couldn’t be further off my friend.

I like going to practice, seeing who is putting in a heater and pointing it out to my friends. Watching a guy eye up a new rhythm and again pointing it out.

My most recent supercross, was my wife and kids going for the first time (they aren’t heavy into Moto). Sure would have been nice to point out what’s happening or explain the flags, but that ain’t happening in today’s Moto.

Growing the sport by having new people not be able to hear a damn thing is not the way.
I believe the opposite to be true.(for newbies, kids, women) The worst thing is noise, then dirt. Not gonna get rid of dirt!
Gordon Liddy
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Gordon Liddy 6/11/2022 1:21pm
6/11/2022 1:21pm
Gordon Liddy wrote:
Not interested until battery technology allows it to outlast me. It needs to last at least 3-4 hours on a single charge.
Dirty Points wrote:
If you can go 3-4 hours on an MX track, you are in much better riding shape than I am.
Motocross bikes are ridden at places other than MX tracks. I think that might be the disconnect here.

When I was a kid, I used to put a gas can in a back pack because I wanted more RANGE.
1
mark911
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mark911 6/11/2022 2:06pm
6/11/2022 2:06pm
Just remember that every "initial impression" ride of the first Altas were glowing with enthusiasm too. And we know how that ultimately turned out . . . . .
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5
Dirty Points 6/11/2022 2:22pm
6/11/2022 2:22pm
mark911 wrote:
Just remember that every "initial impression" ride of the first Altas were glowing with enthusiasm too. And we know how that ultimately turned out ....
Just remember that every "initial impression" ride of the first Altas were glowing with enthusiasm too. And we know how that ultimately turned out . . . . .
I think most reviews ever on Alta were glowing. By all accounts the bike was great
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mark911
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mark911 6/11/2022 5:35pm
6/11/2022 5:35pm
mark911 wrote:
Just remember that every "initial impression" ride of the first Altas were glowing with enthusiasm too. And we know how that ultimately turned out ....
Just remember that every "initial impression" ride of the first Altas were glowing with enthusiasm too. And we know how that ultimately turned out . . . . .
Dirty Points wrote:
I think most reviews ever on Alta were glowing. By all accounts the bike was great
Not saying the bike was not great (I owned two at one time), it just wasn't competitive with the gas bikes at higher/certain levels/types of racing. The Stark will be a bit better but will still suffer the same limitations. If you are a vet MX rider/racer you'll probably be very happy (assuming you don't mind watching your buddies practicing while your bikes charging and dragging a big heavy generator and gas wherever you go). If you're younger and like to race short local races (not pro) you'll probably need to ride the 450 class and depending on your speed level, track and outside temperature, might have battery thermal issues in the first moto and more likely in the second moto after charging (it gets even hotter). Yes, you can drag a "water mister" with you like those at Home Depot to help cool the battery a small amount, but that's another 5-10 gallons of water and other crap you'll need to bring with you (and it makes a big mud puddle under the bike). If you have aspirations of racing pro there's no class for electric yet and racer support ($$$$/parts) will be non-existent until the AMA makes some rule changes. Besides, it'll never make a pro 30minute plus two lap moto (not with a fast rider and full power to the end anyway) regardless of what Stark may claim. However, if you're a free rider nothing matters except a few minutes of video anyway and it can go places (noise) other bikes can't, so it's great for You-Tube.

I'm not just speculating here. I've got more technical knowledge about electric motorcycles than 99% of the folks on this site. But I too wanted to believe that the future was here when the Alta was released despite of what my education (engineering and physics) and practical experience dictated. If the future is here AGAIN, it's going to be limited to a very narrow scope of operation.

The industry needs a major breakthrough in battery cell technology before the future will actually arrive. It's fine in certain applications (automotive) where the car can weigh 6000 lbs and have powered accessories to actively cool the battery pack(s), onboard chargers, etc. But it'll be another 5 years before you see an electric bike line up at a National.

Anyway, just one man's opinion.
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3
Dirty Points 6/11/2022 5:49pm
6/11/2022 5:49pm Edited Date/Time 6/11/2022 6:16pm
mark911 wrote:
Not saying the bike was not great (I owned two at one time), it just wasn't competitive with the gas bikes at higher/certain levels/types of racing...
Not saying the bike was not great (I owned two at one time), it just wasn't competitive with the gas bikes at higher/certain levels/types of racing. The Stark will be a bit better but will still suffer the same limitations. If you are a vet MX rider/racer you'll probably be very happy (assuming you don't mind watching your buddies practicing while your bikes charging and dragging a big heavy generator and gas wherever you go). If you're younger and like to race short local races (not pro) you'll probably need to ride the 450 class and depending on your speed level, track and outside temperature, might have battery thermal issues in the first moto and more likely in the second moto after charging (it gets even hotter). Yes, you can drag a "water mister" with you like those at Home Depot to help cool the battery a small amount, but that's another 5-10 gallons of water and other crap you'll need to bring with you (and it makes a big mud puddle under the bike). If you have aspirations of racing pro there's no class for electric yet and racer support ($$$$/parts) will be non-existent until the AMA makes some rule changes. Besides, it'll never make a pro 30minute plus two lap moto (not with a fast rider and full power to the end anyway) regardless of what Stark may claim. However, if you're a free rider nothing matters except a few minutes of video anyway and it can go places (noise) other bikes can't, so it's great for You-Tube.

I'm not just speculating here. I've got more technical knowledge about electric motorcycles than 99% of the folks on this site. But I too wanted to believe that the future was here when the Alta was released despite of what my education (engineering and physics) and practical experience dictated. If the future is here AGAIN, it's going to be limited to a very narrow scope of operation.

The industry needs a major breakthrough in battery cell technology before the future will actually arrive. It's fine in certain applications (automotive) where the car can weigh 6000 lbs and have powered accessories to actively cool the battery pack(s), onboard chargers, etc. But it'll be another 5 years before you see an electric bike line up at a National.

Anyway, just one man's opinion.
IMO, it will be longer than that. You won't see an electric line up for a national until several of the big 5 have them on dealer floors, on account of the AMA being pretty beholden to the big OEMs.

Note: The Alta podium'd pro Endurocross where they were allowed to compete.
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