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Also, be prepared for taxes to go way up, they have to to pay for it.
As I said, primary care is good under those plans. Anything beyond that is much harder to get and you have to wait. It's not the be all, end all some make it out to be. I just don't want my government running my healthcare.
Many people in this country would prefer to keep their private plans. we need to find a way to satisfy that segment and also come up with a medicare type plan for the people who don't have access to good insurance.
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Second clue you don't want to have a real discussion; "taxes will go way up". That's a no brainer, it is a government run program, but your out of pocket expenses will go WAY down. On a net basis, you will have more money in your pocket on a net basis even with higher taxes. There was a recent statement of 20 leading US economist that try to explain this to people. Like most people i want more money in my pocket at the end of the day and would not want someone like you running my business who cannot see the whole picture. This is not speculation, there has been so much data out there for years and Americans already pay more than double what other major countries pay and have poorer morbidity and mortality statistics to boot. Embarassing. Drugs now cost 3-5X higher in the US than in these countries.. for the same drug. We know what the US pays and we know what other countries pay for the same thing.. no comparison.
And there you go with another fallacy that any single payer system will require long waits for care.. that can be the case for non-urgent care in some of the less desirable systems, but I just told you there are plenty of systems in other countries where that is not the case at all.. I say this not only an expert on country systems, but I just told you that in Japan, I could see a doctor and get surgery much faster than I can in the US. Much faster. Appointments can be scheduled out several months to see a specialist in the US these days. Many people even with health insurance in the US forgo needed surgery because of the massive copays and coinsurance in the US and this is growing as insurance companies shift costs to patients. This would not happen in these other countries. So another of your points debunked.
Yes, Medicare does put a lot of pressure on doctors and you have to look at the history of Medicare.. it once was a small part of our healthcare system and now it is huge. Any new system really requires a renegotiation of fees with the physicians' association as a key stakeholder. I think people just say "expanded medicare" to help people like you who are afraid of things they don't know or understand comprehend what it may look like. There are plenty of national healthcare systems where physicians remain the highest paid profession by far. In contrast, I have many physician friends that have given up practicing in the clinic because they couldn't make enough money treating patients the way they felt patients should be treated. We have many unscrupulous physicians these days doing well financially but not taking good care of their patients.
Most countries with national health insurance still offer private insurance options. I am quite confident that when "sticks in the mud" like yourself that fear the unknown and unfamiliar, will be scrambling to get onto the national programs once they see how happy their friends and colleagues are.
I did not write all the above for you, as I am pretty sure you are a wasted cause since you wont absorb any facts or information from people who have direct, real life experience. You only deflected the facts and info. I wrote all the above for those that may read what you wrote and be misled or have their unsubstantiated fears reinforced.
I am all for real debate. And I have read a lot about socialized medicine. I stand by my statement that what you propose isn't without it's drawbacks.
I use Canada because I have a colleague who was born and raised there and it's often held up as an example. Btw, he didn't say it was bad, just has some serious drawacks. As a matter of fact he liked it for the most part.
Japan geographically is much smaller than the US with about 1/3 the population, so is easier to manage.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say it sucks!
These are facts, it's not free, far from it. Primary care is excellent, but things like mri's and non emergency surgery often have very long waits. And if these public healthcare plans work so well, why would you still need private insurance?
I just don't think our government can run healthcare for 330 million people. Look at the VA. How's that working out?
Plus, Medicare is full of waste and fraud.
I'd love to see a real debate where the choice isn't simply private or public.
I think there's got to be a better way. I'm happy with what I have, but for sure it could be better.
Finally, if we don't get a handle the fact that we're one of the most obese countries in the world, it won't matter.
Bottom line is a large part of our population is obese, sedentary and doesn't take care of themselves. That's the biggest driver behind our healthcare costs. We should reward good behavior like we do with life insurance.
It just happened to me the other day, a close friend of 16 years who knows my background. He is an accomplished man and former mayor of my city, but has never been to another country. I didn't raise the issue, but he started going off about something he heard on Fox and how social medical insurance would destroy the "best healthcare system in the world" and all the problems with the systems in other countries. He is on Medicare by the way. When I reminded him that he knows perfectly well what my job was for the last 30 years, he hesitated for a moment probably feeling pretty stupid, but the emotion got the best of him and he again started with stating all this crazy, totally false info with no qualifications or evidence whatsoever. I told him he was making irrational statements and sounding like an ignorant ass.
You seem to feel you have enough expertise by what ever you have read about social insurance, but it was pretty obvious you not only knew little, but you didn't care to learn or hear the evidence.
I cannot fathom your point about Japan having a much smaller landmass and population size in this age of modern technology. You do know the Japan has the 2nd biggest population of any developed country after the US, right? 330M vs 127M people.. bigger than the populations of the UK and France combined. It is a pretty big population in a country the size of California. China has a population of 1.4 billion people and they introduced national health insurance some years ago in a pretty dam big country, and a developing country at that. So is this your argument, that the US cannot do what other countries are already doing successfully for years because we have too big a population and too big of a land mass?? Actually it is pretty clear you do not know what is going on in other countries or that you even care.
Zacka could have explained to you his first hand experience how the Australian system works and it should be quite enlightening, but you obviously have no interest in enlightenment. I should never criticize anyone in today's busy society for not being aware of other healthcare systems or even all the intricacies of their own very complex system. I am only aware because of my job for 30 years in a major global corporation. But I can't hold back on what is "willful ignorance".. you have an unqualified opinion and no amount of data, evidence or facts is going to shake you from it. Willful ignorance is far more serious than a person who has a misinformed opinion due to lack of facts, but wiling to listen, ask questions, and learn.
Sorry from diverging so much from the OP's topic and to those who don't find this discussion interesting, but as motocross riders, we unfortunately use the healthcare system more than the average citizen so we should have a very strong interest.
Since you consider us naive and yourself not, please impress us with your credentials and experience in healthcare policy and experience in the many types of systems. I am looking forward to data, facts, personal experience with national health insurance and your work in this area. You do really seem to enjoy paying many times what other major countries pay for healthcare, more and more reduced access as I explained above, and falling morbidity and mortality stats. I don't understand why, perhaps you can eloquently elaborate.
I don't follow you re "based on your voting record".
This thread is definitely going to get shut down soon and no big deal as it wont go anywhere useful anyway. People only need opinion to be an expert, facts are irrelevant Cognitive dissonance is alive and well in the US and Oak Creek.
Pit Row
Belgium seems like a real mess sometimes but being disabled as I am, I'm thankful for the health insurance we've get from the moment we're born. It's a pretty complex system so I won't start explaining.
If you are doing to swing a leg over a dirtbike you better have some integrity and self responsibility. Shit is weak
As an example, at a race north of the border a couple decades ago, some spectator kids were fooling around and decided to crawl under the lip of a drop-way jump. A rider crashed on the approach, the bike cartwheeled toward the kid and a footpeg embedded itself in the kid's temple. Instant vegetative state. It turned out the kid was a "troubled child" and his family wanted nothing to do with his care, so the state took over. The state didn't want to cover all these costs either (lifetime, full time care is staggeringly expensive in any jurisdiction) so, whether it was fair or not, the track was sued in the kid's name. The litigation went on for years, but eventually, the track lost. Waivers, idiocy, assumption of risk, etc. - none of these are as important as figuring out an "equitable" way to address this kid's needs. Whether the track was insured or not was never the issue, as it is against the rules to name an insurance company in such litigation. But, as I learned from a judge buddy over beers a few years later, everyone implicitly knows that there is insurance coverage and, in the event of these major losses, the judge will look for the party best able to address the loss. And that party will preferably not be society as a whole, so the track gets to wear the damage.
These issues arise in lots of "risky" sports, and ski hills are getting a lot of attention lately. Check out some hill's waivers - they can be a couple pages long with a spot for your lawyer to sign off as well. And their ass is still not completely covered.
And, as a result, the lawsuits keep coming...
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