Budds Creek law suit

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8/31/2020 9:07 AM

Timo_2824 wrote:

I'm going to throw it out there, my dad was born in 1960 for the adjusted for inflation cost of $800. I was born in the mid ...more

Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:

This is a good example of how a market based system doesn't work well in the case of healthcare.. it worked for a while in the ...more

I know for a fact a local hospital here marks up its OR supplies 325-350% when it bills patients and insurance companies. Could you imagine having a repair shop and billing customers parts that have been marked up 300plus % ?

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8/31/2020 9:25 AM

Need to change the title of this from "Budds Creek law suit" to "Health Insurance" and move this crap to NON-MOTO. Six pages and less then one discusses the title.

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8/31/2020 9:52 AM

Timo_2824 wrote:

I'm going to throw it out there, my dad was born in 1960 for the adjusted for inflation cost of $800. I was born in the mid ...more

Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:

This is a good example of how a market based system doesn't work well in the case of healthcare.. it worked for a while in the ...more

I would like to hear the Vital Brits’ thoughts on NHS.

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8/31/2020 10:26 AM

toroP wrote:

I would like to hear the Vital Brits’ thoughts on NHS.

Pretty simple really, you race on sunday, crash , got to hospital, get fixed, and leave, then go home and wait for a bill that never comes.

Our taxes pay for it, and while its a PITA to get seen sometimes, that depends on the level of urgency. My wife was taken ill after a fall, and had to have surgery on her skull, and was in hospital for 3 weeks, and countless aftercare visits, which are still ongoing 10 years later... cost to us $0

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8/31/2020 10:33 AM

philG wrote:

Pretty simple really, you race on sunday, crash , got to hospital, get fixed, and leave, then go home and wait for a bill that ...more

same with here in NZ, (which Tokyo said was not the best system)

break femur racing mx, get helicopter to hospital, pin in, 80% of my wages till back at full time work, rehab, pin taken out a year later,

no bill ever sent,

although I agree with him on the fact that new drugs are slow at being put into use here,


but we have a private system as well, if you want to pay for private insurance. (i dont have any) and some companies offer it as a perk, but its not common,

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8/31/2020 10:57 AM

toroP wrote:

I would like to hear the Vital Brits’ thoughts on NHS.

philG wrote:

Pretty simple really, you race on sunday, crash , got to hospital, get fixed, and leave, then go home and wait for a bill that ...more

scott_nz wrote:

same with here in NZ, (which Tokyo said was not the best system)

break femur racing mx, get helicopter to hospital, pin in, ...more

I had private health care as a perk, had a hernia that needed work, got sent to a guy who was a surgeon who worked on the local pro Rugby team , i told him i was a bike racer and needed to schedule a date between races, he booked me for a monday after a race, and he told me that he would do a 'proper' job, meaning it would be a bit more uncomfortable, to start with, but i could race in a week.

Again, cost to me , $0

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8/31/2020 11:14 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/31/2020 11:17 AM

In what world does having the government take tax money and write checks equate to better/ cheaper anything?

Less middlemen, less lawsuits, more competition and price transparency is what we all really need. Oh and cost of education to decline.

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8/31/2020 11:26 AM

sf702/410 wrote:

In what world does having the government take tax money and write checks equate to better/ cheaper anything?

Less middlemen, ...more

Would you prefer to bypass the government and have fully, for profit, military?

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8/31/2020 11:31 AM

sf702/410 wrote:

In what world does having the government take tax money and write checks equate to better/ cheaper anything?

Less middlemen, ...more

toroP wrote:

Would you prefer to bypass the government and have fully, for profit, military?

"Fully for profit military"? I don't even know what that means.

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8/31/2020 11:41 AM

We spend trillions to protect the citizens from other countries (which is pretty unlikely to happen), while we are not willing to spend anything (unless you are over age 65) to protect the citizens from cancer, broken bones and other threats to our health.

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8/31/2020 11:46 AM

Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:

This is a good example of how a market based system doesn't work well in the case of healthcare.. it worked for a while in the ...more

Also, keep in mind that we do not currently have a market-based healthcare system, anyway.

The government decided to subsidize health insurance by giving companies tax breaks if they provide health insurance for their employees. So now employees are given health insurance (often without much choice in providers), so their ability to price shop is hindered. Not that they can price shop, because most healthcare providers couldn't even quote your a cash price for services anyway.

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8/31/2020 3:56 PM

sf702/410 wrote:

In what world does having the government take tax money and write checks equate to better/ cheaper anything?

Less middlemen, ...more

With a proper Healthcare system, America wouldn't have those 'hospital lawyers'. Let me explain why: Now this kid his parents have tons of costs but if 'GoFundMe' doesn't cover the bills and the private insurances aren't there to cover those costs or they have already bailed on them, they need to seek someone to blame. Seeking someone to blame can help them to recover hard needed money on 'the one in fault'. Now Budds Creek is the one they are trying to blame, but it could've been also something or someone else like a aftermarket bike part...

When you don't have to worry about the bills, it doesn't really matter if you can find someone to blame to recover the money on. Because there are no gigantic bills waiting for you and in some systems you have at least a secured minimum wages too. That makes that people don't get upset when rehab goes a little slower and start suing their medics...

Also the prices of the pharmaceutical products would drop. Some products could be 300 to 500% cheaper and this without a app on your phone. That is really weird, getting discounts on prescription drugs using a app?!

Can someone explain why some Americans look with so much anxiety towards a healthcare system. It isn't because 'The American' is a cheapskate. You are probably the country who donates the most money towards all kinds of charity. Giving money towards people who are in need of healthcare but can't pay for it... I've seen great things here with 'GoFundMe' projects for a lot of different riders who got badly injured.

But people in medical need asking on the internet for money isn't how it should be working. One of the reasons is because the moto-community sticks together and is always there, willing to give those few dollars they can miss. But what if you aren't a part of a community like ours? Just take a sec to think about it.

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8/31/2020 4:35 PM

sf702/410 wrote:

In what world does having the government take tax money and write checks equate to better/ cheaper anything?

Less middlemen, ...more

MXMattii wrote:

With a proper Healthcare system, America wouldn't have those 'hospital lawyers'. Let me explain why: Now this kid his parents ...more

There are a couple of things you said that are simply irrelevant to your point. If someone has an accident it's truly nobody's responsibility but their own or their guardian's to rectify, unless negligence is proven elsewhere.

Hardship or not, you can't just come after the guy with money in the picture, it's theft and morally reprehensible.

In fundamentally against the government taking money to distribute as it sees fit, when employees and superiors feel no monetary pain from abuse and dishonesty below when it occurs. Not true with a free market company. Far more checks and balances. I feel that the government subsidizing an industry just provides a bigger check potentially or diminishes incentive for dr's to enter the field on the other end of the spectrum.

If it's so awful here, why do people frequently travel here for health care? I have a serious medical condition and read on an international forum about it, and dealing with government agencies to approve medications and visits in a timely fashion sounds like a real nightmare according to other patients with my condition. I do not want that, or need that faceless, bureaucratic entity at all involved in my health care.

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8/31/2020 6:46 PM

sf702/410 wrote:

In what world does having the government take tax money and write checks equate to better/ cheaper anything?

Less middlemen, ...more

MXMattii wrote:

With a proper Healthcare system, America wouldn't have those 'hospital lawyers'. Let me explain why: Now this kid his parents ...more

sf702/410 wrote:

There are a couple of things you said that are simply irrelevant to your point. If someone has an accident it's truly nobody's ...more

Some of your beliefs are quite true. I worked over 30 years in a fortune 50 company... healthcare of course.

"Not true with a free market company. Far more checks and balances."-- The government is supposed to look out for us and it is up to us to elect a government that does that. The checks and balances you refer to are called "regulations" by other who don't mean you well. The goal of a private company is to grow profit every year, eliminate regulations, eliminate competition so they become what is called a monopsony power in the seller/ buyer relation ship. The internal pressure to grow profits is intense and they will do anything as far as the regulations will allow. They will take as much of your money as they can. Without laws and a government to keep them in check, we would be in even bigger trouble than the mess we are in now. They would be selling snake oil for your severe diseases.

"why do people frequently travel here for health care" -- Some do, it is not a bad system for those who can afford it, but more and more, the general population risks bankruptcy traying to afford. The newest therapies are launched in the US first because it is so hugely profitable with super high prices that companies change charge. Patients don't come just here though.. they travel to other countries too for their medical care. It is called medical tourism. Thailand and India are big for medical tourism as well as South Korea and Japan. The international hospitals in Thailand are beautiful with the latest technology.

Government run systems around the world can offer the latest treatments/ services at a fraction of what the US private system forces us to pay. I negotiated for reimbursement with governments around the world, so I have to know their systems and their costs for inputs. You are being fed bullsh&t so the US system can bleed you dry and this aid by the fact that so many americans have little knowledge of the rest of the world.

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8/31/2020 6:59 PM

sf702/410 wrote:

In what world does having the government take tax money and write checks equate to better/ cheaper anything?

Less middlemen, ...more

MXMattii wrote:

With a proper Healthcare system, America wouldn't have those 'hospital lawyers'. Let me explain why: Now this kid his parents ...more

The big money from lawsuits is generally not to cover bills, it’s to cover things like loss of future wages or, the really big money, punitive damages. Just because health care costs would be covered under universal healthcare doesn’t mean there would be any less ambulance chasing.

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8/31/2020 7:56 PM

MXMattii wrote:

With a proper Healthcare system, America wouldn't have those 'hospital lawyers'. Let me explain why: Now this kid his parents ...more

sf702/410 wrote:

There are a couple of things you said that are simply irrelevant to your point. If someone has an accident it's truly nobody's ...more

Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:

Some of your beliefs are quite true. I worked over 30 years in a fortune 50 company... healthcare of course.

"Not true with a ...more

No. Reread what I said. By default the consumer, insurance competitors, practitioners, as well as internal employees check and balance the insurance companies. They're bottom line will ultimately suffer under poor performance or bad ethics in capitalism. What we have now is crony- capitalism regulating who gains monopoly. Im completely against that and want deregulation and ability to shop across state lines for insurance.

The government is checked by nobody and simply keeps tentacles in the pot and adds another if it wants to grab more.

You said the thing there: "the great treatments are here because of great profit potential"
..
So can we agree that profits motivate better care and research? I've heard that many socialized healthcare countries are essentially propped up by the American side of the industry, and that they reap the benefits of u.s r&d and while not covering an equal cost , I.e especially cancer drugs and others.

With the cost of education for a doctor, the investment of time, regulation and stress- it better be damn rewarding, so unless you find alot people wanting to deal with all of that for what YOU deem acceptable and affordable, I think you'd see a tremendous shortage and cease ground breaking developments. Unless slave labor or labor appointments are desirable for you.

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8/31/2020 8:06 PM

sf702/410 wrote:

There are a couple of things you said that are simply irrelevant to your point. If someone has an accident it's truly nobody's ...more

Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:

Some of your beliefs are quite true. I worked over 30 years in a fortune 50 company... healthcare of course.

"Not true with a ...more

sf702/410 wrote:

No. Reread what I said. By default the consumer, insurance competitors, practitioners, as well as internal employees check and ...more

I figured i was wasting my time. I guess I didn't learn anything in the last 30+ years on the job. shame on me.

I guess we just have to accept that americans are too dumb to make it work when the rest of the developed world can. I guess they are much smarter than us smile



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8/31/2020 8:19 PM

Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:

Some of your beliefs are quite true. I worked over 30 years in a fortune 50 company... healthcare of course.

"Not true with a ...more

sf702/410 wrote:

No. Reread what I said. By default the consumer, insurance competitors, practitioners, as well as internal employees check and ...more

Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:

I figured i was wasting my time. I guess I didn't learn anything in the last 30+ years on the job. shame on me.

I guess we ...more

The world health industry relies on American profits. I guess if you were half as smart as you are arrogant we'd have solved this. Carry on, foriegn genius.

And btw, whoever mentioned Belgium above- I have friends who gained citizenship here after leaving there, and they filled me in one night over dinner.

They paid annual taxes on pieces of furniture in their own home! Please don't tell me I live an expensive, shit-life and everywhere else is better. Lol.

If what you all want is so great elsewhere, why the hell is everyone still here? Please make space. I need affordable land to build big jumps.

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9/1/2020 4:44 AM

sf702/410 wrote:

No. Reread what I said. By default the consumer, insurance competitors, practitioners, as well as internal employees check and ...more

Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:

I figured i was wasting my time. I guess I didn't learn anything in the last 30+ years on the job. shame on me.

I guess we ...more

sf702/410 wrote:

The world health industry relies on American profits. I guess if you were half as smart as you are arrogant we'd have solved ...more

Spot on.
All these people in other countries claiming they get free healthcare fail to mention how much they pay in taxes!
Free healthcare my ass. It ain't free. And good luck if you need a specialist.

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9/1/2020 6:57 AM

Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:

I figured i was wasting my time. I guess I didn't learn anything in the last 30+ years on the job. shame on me.

I guess we ...more

sf702/410 wrote:

The world health industry relies on American profits. I guess if you were half as smart as you are arrogant we'd have solved ...more

Indy mxer wrote:

Spot on.
All these people in other countries claiming they get free healthcare fail to mention how much they pay in taxes!
...more

I moved from the UK to the US and my wages at the time were the same (same company) and after taxes / fees and whatever else the money in my pocket was about the same in the US as it was in the UK so this idea that taxes are super high in countries with “free healthcare” is nonsense in my experience

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9/1/2020 10:03 AM

Indy mxer wrote:

Spot on.
All these people in other countries claiming they get free healthcare fail to mention how much they pay in taxes!
...more

You're paying for it one way or another.

Currently, most people get health insurance through their jobs. Theoretically, that is just money your company could be giving to you, instead of paying for health insurance.

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9/1/2020 1:03 PM

YES!! Another thread on Vital where people from Europe, AUS, etc. try to reshape the USA into their own vision. Sweet!

PhilG, you paid tax a little to cover your health costs. What you didn't pay, the rest of the workers had to chip in for you and your wife. "MAGIC MONEY" didn't cover all those costs.

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9/1/2020 1:46 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/1/2020 1:48 PM

Obamacare happened because everyone was fed up with our healthcare system... Because the market wasn't (and still isn't) working as it should. It wasn't thought up out of thin air. It became a major talking point of the elections because people were/are sick of the costs.

IMO, the problem with Obamacare is that it was neutered, watered down, and just plain half-assed after everyone got their say in it. You either completely deregulate the market and see what happens, or go all in on a national system and see what happens. Everything in the middle is GARBAGE.

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James

9/1/2020 2:36 PM

You are absolutely spot on SoCalMX70. Any bill/ law ends up being a compromise in the US 2-party system that can no longer play constructively together. We can identify problems with both sides of the aisle but one side is working for the <.05% of the wealthiest segment of the population. One side will destroy whatever the other side creates even if it is good for the greater population. Obama care could be better of it wasn't watered down and is not perfect but is in the right direction.

I think we pretty much now what would happen today with a system left solely to private companies and no regulations to protect the consumer. Most people who work closely in healthcare provision know that it is different that other sectors. You cant easily shop around for insurance or for care in many instances. Insurance is tied to a person's place of employment. Moreover, if you were rushed to a hospital with a leg bone sticking out or a foot peg embedded in your head, the hospital could tell you it would be $10 million for your can and in that moment of pain, confusion and fear, you would probably agree to it. Even worse if it were your child. Market systems can only work if the consumer has multiple options to chose from and can forego one option for another, without having to make a decision on the spot. When you go into a hospital, you have no idea what the cost will be until afterwards. The critical elements for a true market system don't exist. Maybe some elements can be incorporated, but not completely set free on its own.

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9/1/2020 2:45 PM

KDXGarage wrote:

YES!! Another thread on Vital where people from Europe, AUS, etc. try to reshape the USA into their own vision. Sweet!

PhilG, ...more

I think not.. they are just trying to share some facts.. something that has become so elusive in the US these day. What is in it for them to change the medical insurance system in a country half way around the world... nothing! They are just doing their best to address our ignorance with useful facts.

It is called "insurance" and that is the way any insurance works... a pool of people share the risks in case of a major health issue so you that you get the needed treatment and are not financially devastated. Since we don't know the future.. every one benefits equally more or less and have that peace of mind.

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9/1/2020 3:37 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/1/2020 3:42 PM

Indy mxer wrote:

Spot on.
All these people in other countries claiming they get free healthcare fail to mention how much they pay in taxes!
...more

"Good Luck seeing a specialist" is something you guys throw in the conversation a lot. One of mine parents needed to see a lung specialist, in full Corona-time, the waiting time was exactly 10 days... While the specialist was looking at his case he came to the conclusion that he also needed an CAT-scan and he got scheduled for the next day. Now he will be seeing the specialist next week to talk over all the results and the next steps.

Does that sound so bad?!

To be honest, we pay indeed lots of taxes to our government but that doesn't mean that the money in our pocket is less then the average American.

PS: Tax on furniture? What kind of furniture because that is one hell of tax that I didn't know off (yet?).

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9/1/2020 3:55 PM

sf702/410 wrote:

The world health industry relies on American profits. I guess if you were half as smart as you are arrogant we'd have solved ...more

Indy mxer wrote:

Spot on.
All these people in other countries claiming they get free healthcare fail to mention how much they pay in taxes!
...more

MXMattii wrote:

"Good Luck seeing a specialist" is something you guys throw in the conversation a lot. One of mine parents needed to see a ...more

Good point Matti... these sound bites are driven into their brains by Fox News most probably and no facts or honesty can change that, I have found.

In Japan, I could see any doctor I wanted at any time, same day. When I moved back to the US, it was prohibitively expensive to see a doctor "out of network". They force you to see an in-network doctor. Moreover, if I want to see a doctor for a minor issue, it can sometimes take a few weeks to find an opening while a specialist can often take a month or two. If a minor procedure needs a prior authorization, it can take the insurance company 4-10 days to approve before I can see the doctor.

None of this existed in Japan's national healthcare and my taxes were similar to what I pay in the US. So moving back the the US system, I pay far more out of pocket than the increased tax burden in Japan, I cannot see a doctor as quickly as Japan, and it is difficult to see any doctor I want in the US because of the in/out of network issue so less freedom to chose my doctor in the US.

However, these guys want to believe the USA has the best of everything and they are easily manipulated by politicians.

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9/1/2020 4:52 PM

So is there an update on the kid that got hurt? Or an update on how the pending litigation is impacting the track?

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9/1/2020 6:39 PM

Mcflurry98 wrote:

So is there an update on the kid that got hurt? Or an update on how the pending litigation is impacting the track?

I haven’t seen anything more about it on Facebook. Looks like they having lots of practice days. Can’t wait to get my bike built and head out there.

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9/1/2020 8:13 PM

Do you think they should change the track after someone gets hurt on a particularly hairy jump, or is that just motocross? That should be a poll

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