West coast rider apparently didn’t pass covid test

aFACEdismembered 6/10/2020 8:58am
6/10/2020 8:58am
thephoenix wrote:
Fact is the MAJORITY by far of "covid deaths" are in the 60+ group - and almost HALF of those in that 60+ group are in...
Fact is the MAJORITY by far of "covid deaths" are in the 60+ group - and almost HALF of those in that 60+ group are in nursing homes and care facilities, aka "hotspots".

Protect the elderly or compromised, let everyone else get back to work. The REAL shit show is the poor handling of this by our "leaders". Listening to flawed initial data and political doctors, not the epidemiologists that do their work in the trenches.

When this is finally over, we are going to look like idiots for shutting down the economy and bankrupting thousands and thousands of small businesses.

Even the WHO can't get out of their own way. Contradict themselves at every step.
I had a long paragraph but you're words are good enough. Partisan politics make this topic so hard for fanboys on both sides to accept leaderships direct accountability in this disaster.

I'll just say that, as a nation, we should never be proud of beating Russia and Brazil in government inaction. NEVER. And we should never brag about our failed response to it. That's accepting mediocrity. Mediocrity shouldn't be the American way.
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MPJC
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MPJC 6/10/2020 8:58am
6/10/2020 8:58am
thephoenix wrote:
Fact is the MAJORITY by far of "covid deaths" are in the 60+ group - and almost HALF of those in that 60+ group are in...
Fact is the MAJORITY by far of "covid deaths" are in the 60+ group - and almost HALF of those in that 60+ group are in nursing homes and care facilities, aka "hotspots".

Protect the elderly or compromised, let everyone else get back to work. The REAL shit show is the poor handling of this by our "leaders". Listening to flawed initial data and political doctors, not the epidemiologists that do their work in the trenches.

When this is finally over, we are going to look like idiots for shutting down the economy and bankrupting thousands and thousands of small businesses.

Even the WHO can't get out of their own way. Contradict themselves at every step.
This post expresses pointedly the tensions that exist when trying to navigate something like covid. Harm will result from pretty much any course of action - too many restrictions result in economic hardship, not enough result in too much spread of the virus (Taiwan's very effective system of contact tracing isn't even on the table because that level of invasion of privacy wouldn't be tolerated in North America). These are both very real hardships, and neither should be downplayed. The problem is that in the early stages of a pandemic, flawed data may be the only data you have. Data acquisition and dissemination takes time, and as that happens, expert opinions will change. Scientists aren't interested in agreeing with each other; rather, if something is false, they want to show it to be false. So as we learn, earlier statements will be corrected as they are proven wrong. This is a good thing - it's how science is supposed to work. Whether or not we will look like idiots - either for shutting down the economy too much or not enough - remains to be seen. We're in the middle of a shitshow in any event, and I sure as hell don't have the answers and I doubt anyone else on this forum does either.

I'm just happy to see racing. Perhaps I'm being selfish - I'm really not sure.
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pops
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pops 6/10/2020 9:16am
6/10/2020 9:16am
Ted722 wrote:
"Much like every state that started opening up around Memorial Day...."

Wouldn't matter if they opened up or not with all those protests going on.
avidchimp wrote:
Not going to argue that at all, because yeah, there will be issues that arise from the protests. We will see in two weeks.
TbonesPop wrote:
The protests started a few days after Memorial Day. Remember, Floyd died on Memorial Day. From someone that’s actively working and doing it safely, the issue...
The protests started a few days after Memorial Day. Remember, Floyd died on Memorial Day. From someone that’s actively working and doing it safely, the issue isn’t from opening up most businesses. It’s being in large crowds or in close quarters. Most business that I go into all have safety requirement simple red that greatly prevent the transmission. It’s the going out to bars (not keeping distance), large crowds, and nursing homes. Had we as a country done better protecting nursing homes and the elderly, the survival rate in our country would have gone up exponentially.
Yes, maybe go from 99.6% survival rate to 99.8% survival rate. Exponentially better!!!!!!
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smashingpumpkins167 6/10/2020 9:28am
6/10/2020 9:28am
Stuntman949 wrote:
You want to joke about Corona? Because that's how you get Corona
I had a little head ache yesterday, I was thinking maybe the Rona got me. Then I drank a beer and it went away. It was just beer withdrawals.
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ns503
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ns503 6/10/2020 9:53am
6/10/2020 9:53am
haydos25 wrote:
I think you mean the precautions the Utah Sports Commision put in place. The confusing part to me is that they're not allowed near each other...
I think you mean the precautions the Utah Sports Commision put in place.

The confusing part to me is that they're not allowed near each other within the stadium, walk out of the stadium though and it's mass bro down time. Wanna mountain bike with buddy's in the media or from a different team on Monday/Tuesday, sure go nuts. Wanna stay in share accommodation with 10 of your family members that haven't been tested, have at it. But don't you dare share a socially distant conversation in the pits on Sunday afternoon.

I get that its not Felds rules, or the riders or anything, and im glad they're back finishing the season, i just find it entertaining is all.
mxpro252 wrote:
I’m to the point of agreeing with your mindset at this point. Events in recent weeks have made it incredibly clear there have been pretty blatant...
I’m to the point of agreeing with your mindset at this point. Events in recent weeks have made it incredibly clear there have been pretty blatant lies around the virus and it’s spread, but to see some people and companies pick and choose which arbitrary rules they follow is pretty entertaining. But I also know the main driver for the companies right now is avoiding potential liability.
Kawi15 wrote:
Probably all the distancing/mask garbage is for the media exposure. Once outside the camera people probably live a little closer to their convictions.
Distancing & mask practices are hardly garbage. Far from it.

They will likely be the only thing that will get us all 'opened up again', for the foreseeable future.
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 6/10/2020 10:18am
6/10/2020 10:18am
avidchimp wrote:
Please note I also said hospitalizations. Those are the numbers that need to be paid attention. E.R.'s around the country are filling up quickly. Good thing...
Please note I also said hospitalizations. Those are the numbers that need to be paid attention. E.R.'s around the country are filling up quickly.

Good thing the U.S.C. and FELD got this going when they did.
Filling up quickly with whom, and where? Empty as shit around here, has been since covid started....
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dimetime
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dimetime 6/10/2020 10:35am
6/10/2020 10:35am
mxpro252 wrote:
I’m to the point of agreeing with your mindset at this point. Events in recent weeks have made it incredibly clear there have been pretty blatant...
I’m to the point of agreeing with your mindset at this point. Events in recent weeks have made it incredibly clear there have been pretty blatant lies around the virus and it’s spread, but to see some people and companies pick and choose which arbitrary rules they follow is pretty entertaining. But I also know the main driver for the companies right now is avoiding potential liability.
Kawi15 wrote:
Probably all the distancing/mask garbage is for the media exposure. Once outside the camera people probably live a little closer to their convictions.
ns503 wrote:
Distancing & mask practices are hardly garbage. Far from it. They will likely be the only thing that will get us all 'opened up again', for...
Distancing & mask practices are hardly garbage. Far from it.

They will likely be the only thing that will get us all 'opened up again', for the foreseeable future.
There is literally no data to support your claim. None.
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tjnel
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tjnel 6/10/2020 10:43am
6/10/2020 10:43am
Kawi15 wrote:
Probably all the distancing/mask garbage is for the media exposure. Once outside the camera people probably live a little closer to their convictions.
ns503 wrote:
Distancing & mask practices are hardly garbage. Far from it. They will likely be the only thing that will get us all 'opened up again', for...
Distancing & mask practices are hardly garbage. Far from it.

They will likely be the only thing that will get us all 'opened up again', for the foreseeable future.
dimetime wrote:
There is literally no data to support your claim. None.
Ahem.

https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/13319/face-masks-considerably-reduce-covid-19-cases-in-germany-a-synthetic-control-method-approach
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MPJC
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MPJC 6/10/2020 10:43am
6/10/2020 10:43am
Kawi15 wrote:
Probably all the distancing/mask garbage is for the media exposure. Once outside the camera people probably live a little closer to their convictions.
ns503 wrote:
Distancing & mask practices are hardly garbage. Far from it. They will likely be the only thing that will get us all 'opened up again', for...
Distancing & mask practices are hardly garbage. Far from it.

They will likely be the only thing that will get us all 'opened up again', for the foreseeable future.
dimetime wrote:
There is literally no data to support your claim. None.
I’m guessing you don’t see the irony of making a statement about evidence without evidence. In any event, saying something like “no conclusive evidence” or “little evidence” may be supportable. “No evidence” can be easily refuted with a single piece of evidence, and that is easy to find.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)3114…
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dimetime
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dimetime 6/10/2020 10:45am
6/10/2020 10:45am
avidchimp wrote:
Please note I also said hospitalizations. Those are the numbers that need to be paid attention. E.R.'s around the country are filling up quickly. Good thing...
Please note I also said hospitalizations. Those are the numbers that need to be paid attention. E.R.'s around the country are filling up quickly.

Good thing the U.S.C. and FELD got this going when they did.
gt80rider wrote:
Filling up quickly with whom, and where? Empty as shit around here, has been since covid started....
This is what l'm hearing as well.

Sorry folks but Facebook isn't real data.

If everyone would stop posting the idiocy they hear from friends or bullshit they read on social media we'd all be the better for it.

I hope one thing we can agree on, with the wild fluctuations of predictions, infections, mortality rates, rules and regs and so on that the opinions of experts seems to more opinon than fact.

The best and most consistent advice and data has come from John Ionidous SP? from Stanford who nailed the stats nearly three months ago when everyone else was running around with their hair on fire.

And finally, god help you if any of you ever belived a word out of Faucis mouth. This dude is a fucking buffoon with a well detailed history of doing exactly what he's done here. Wildly irrational panic over bad data, time and time again.
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ns503
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ns503 6/10/2020 10:50am
6/10/2020 10:50am
Kawi15 wrote:
Probably all the distancing/mask garbage is for the media exposure. Once outside the camera people probably live a little closer to their convictions.
ns503 wrote:
Distancing & mask practices are hardly garbage. Far from it. They will likely be the only thing that will get us all 'opened up again', for...
Distancing & mask practices are hardly garbage. Far from it.

They will likely be the only thing that will get us all 'opened up again', for the foreseeable future.
dimetime wrote:
There is literally no data to support your claim. None.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200601194159.htm

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/86812

https://www.healtheuropa.eu/evidence-on-optimal-use-of-ppe-and-physical…

That was the first 3 hits I found, plus the other two posted above.

There are lots more. Not quite sure what you're on about....
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MPJC
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MPJC 6/10/2020 10:54am
6/10/2020 10:54am
avidchimp wrote:
Please note I also said hospitalizations. Those are the numbers that need to be paid attention. E.R.'s around the country are filling up quickly. Good thing...
Please note I also said hospitalizations. Those are the numbers that need to be paid attention. E.R.'s around the country are filling up quickly.

Good thing the U.S.C. and FELD got this going when they did.
gt80rider wrote:
Filling up quickly with whom, and where? Empty as shit around here, has been since covid started....
dimetime wrote:
This is what l'm hearing as well. Sorry folks but Facebook isn't real data. If everyone would stop posting the idiocy they hear from friends or...
This is what l'm hearing as well.

Sorry folks but Facebook isn't real data.

If everyone would stop posting the idiocy they hear from friends or bullshit they read on social media we'd all be the better for it.

I hope one thing we can agree on, with the wild fluctuations of predictions, infections, mortality rates, rules and regs and so on that the opinions of experts seems to more opinon than fact.

The best and most consistent advice and data has come from John Ionidous SP? from Stanford who nailed the stats nearly three months ago when everyone else was running around with their hair on fire.

And finally, god help you if any of you ever belived a word out of Faucis mouth. This dude is a fucking buffoon with a well detailed history of doing exactly what he's done here. Wildly irrational panic over bad data, time and time again.
Opens post like This: “This is what l'm hearing as well”

Then says: “If everyone would stop posting the idiocy they hear from friends or bullshit they read on social media we'd all be the better for it.”


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hamncheeze
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hamncheeze 6/10/2020 10:58am
6/10/2020 10:58am
aFACEdismembered wrote:
It's been scaled back in Texas from about 45k-50k per day to about 25k-30k per day and we're on a uptick and breaking daily records. Last...
It's been scaled back in Texas from about 45k-50k per day to about 25k-30k per day and we're on a uptick and breaking daily records. Last week Abbott went from 25% to 50% reopening before the statistical results from reopening were finished and we're only second to California in daily confirmed cases. We're just fucking ourselves because we're trigger happy.
kpiper wrote:
I don't think trigger happy is the right way to say it. We have millions and millions of people out of work and millions of small...
I don't think trigger happy is the right way to say it. We have millions and millions of people out of work and millions of small businesses either ruined or on the verge of it.

There is a great cost to that. The people that still have a job and are getting paid just can't relate one bit to the hardship this is causing.
The people who haven't been affected by the virus or who don't work in healthcare can't relate one bit to the hardship this is causing.
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hamncheeze
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hamncheeze 6/10/2020 11:01am
6/10/2020 11:01am
captmoto wrote:
Sadly, we can't build up immunity hiding from this. I certainly don't want to sacrifice any of my family but this thing is going to take...
Sadly, we can't build up immunity hiding from this. I certainly don't want to sacrifice any of my family but this thing is going to take forever to run it's course. It's going to be around for a while.
And like other coronavirus illness we may never have immunity. Or a successful vaccine. This will continue to be a public health AND economical disaster for many many more months.
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ElliotB16
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ElliotB16 6/10/2020 11:07am
6/10/2020 11:07am
I wonder if he will get his $250 entry fee back
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OLDMOTO
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OLDMOTO 6/10/2020 11:16am
6/10/2020 11:16am
I hope this unnamed young man will be alright. It's a myth that it won't kill you or have any long term damage if you're young.
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Rawly
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Rawly 6/10/2020 11:17am
6/10/2020 11:17am
Silly me , thought I’d get some information from this thread , guess I will just wait for tonight’s show.
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Tracktor
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Tracktor 6/10/2020 11:19am
6/10/2020 11:19am
hamncheeze wrote:
The people who haven't been affected by the virus or who don't work in healthcare can't relate one bit to the hardship this is causing.
I agree to some extent. I have multiple people both family members & clients who work in healthcare and have been laid off or hours cut to zero because of Covid. So definitely causing a hardship for them......
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CivBars
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CivBars 6/10/2020 11:23am
6/10/2020 11:23am
CPR wrote:
Why didn’t Martin think of that? 😂
smashingpumpkins167 wrote:
Holy shit that would have been hilarious. He could have even just said he had a fever or felt sick and wanted to keep everybody safe.
Stuntman949 wrote:
You want to joke about Corona? Because that's how you get Corona
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Elbows 6/10/2020 11:26am
6/10/2020 11:26am
kpiper wrote:
I don't think trigger happy is the right way to say it. We have millions and millions of people out of work and millions of small...
I don't think trigger happy is the right way to say it. We have millions and millions of people out of work and millions of small businesses either ruined or on the verge of it.

There is a great cost to that. The people that still have a job and are getting paid just can't relate one bit to the hardship this is causing.
Amen. It’s past time to get things going again.
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gharmon
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gharmon 6/10/2020 1:00pm
6/10/2020 1:00pm
aFACEdismembered wrote:
Hopefully this rider just arrived in the past few days. If they've been in Utah for a few weeks now but haven't been tested yet because...
Hopefully this rider just arrived in the past few days. If they've been in Utah for a few weeks now but haven't been tested yet because of no reason to enter the stadium what if they've been around other people who have already tested and passed weeks ago? Trace and retest? I thought you only had to retest if you left the state so that means people haven't been getting regular testing, right?
avidchimp wrote:
Correct. Tested once 48 hours before entering stadium. If they haven't left the state, no re-test, just a temp check at the gate.
The whole temp thing is a joke anyway. the last few covid positve patients I have had didn't have any reported fever. Lately the biggest complaint seems to be bad headache and body aches second most common complaint.
avidchimp
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avidchimp 6/10/2020 1:02pm
6/10/2020 1:02pm
aFACEdismembered wrote:
Hopefully this rider just arrived in the past few days. If they've been in Utah for a few weeks now but haven't been tested yet because...
Hopefully this rider just arrived in the past few days. If they've been in Utah for a few weeks now but haven't been tested yet because of no reason to enter the stadium what if they've been around other people who have already tested and passed weeks ago? Trace and retest? I thought you only had to retest if you left the state so that means people haven't been getting regular testing, right?
avidchimp wrote:
Correct. Tested once 48 hours before entering stadium. If they haven't left the state, no re-test, just a temp check at the gate.
gharmon wrote:
The whole temp thing is a joke anyway. the last few covid positve patients I have had didn't have any reported fever. Lately the biggest complaint...
The whole temp thing is a joke anyway. the last few covid positve patients I have had didn't have any reported fever. Lately the biggest complaint seems to be bad headache and body aches second most common complaint.
I agree. Especially when you can temp fail after mild exercise. Until there is a test that is a rapid response type that is at least 90% accurate, it's all just shots in the dark.
gharmon
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gharmon 6/10/2020 1:05pm
6/10/2020 1:05pm
avidchimp wrote:
It would be interesting to do some contact tracing for sure. As was posted above, Utah is blowing up in the number of cases and hospitalizations...
It would be interesting to do some contact tracing for sure. As was posted above, Utah is blowing up in the number of cases and hospitalizations. Much like every state that started opening up around Memorial Day. Which was how long ago?

Oh yeah, about two weeks ago. Same as the incubation period...
kpiper wrote:
The increases could be just that there is more and more testing going on everywhere.
avidchimp wrote:
Please note I also said hospitalizations. Those are the numbers that need to be paid attention. E.R.'s around the country are filling up quickly. Good thing...
Please note I also said hospitalizations. Those are the numbers that need to be paid attention. E.R.'s around the country are filling up quickly.

Good thing the U.S.C. and FELD got this going when they did.
My ER isnt filling up. We have less Covid type presentations but we are testing a ton more people. We are at about a 1-1.5 hour result time. We are also seeing a rise in the stupid shit coming back in which means people are not as worried about it anymore and they need their attention fix by coming to the ER.
gharmon
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gharmon 6/10/2020 1:14pm
6/10/2020 1:14pm
captmoto wrote:
Sadly, we can't build up immunity hiding from this. I certainly don't want to sacrifice any of my family but this thing is going to take...
Sadly, we can't build up immunity hiding from this. I certainly don't want to sacrifice any of my family but this thing is going to take forever to run it's course. It's going to be around for a while.
hamncheeze wrote:
And like other coronavirus illness we may never have immunity. Or a successful vaccine. This will continue to be a public health AND economical disaster for...
And like other coronavirus illness we may never have immunity. Or a successful vaccine. This will continue to be a public health AND economical disaster for many many more months.
*years. there, fixed that for ya.
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500 Mike
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500 Mike 6/10/2020 1:28pm
6/10/2020 1:28pm
kpiper wrote:
The increases could be just that there is more and more testing going on everywhere.
avidchimp wrote:
Please note I also said hospitalizations. Those are the numbers that need to be paid attention. E.R.'s around the country are filling up quickly. Good thing...
Please note I also said hospitalizations. Those are the numbers that need to be paid attention. E.R.'s around the country are filling up quickly.

Good thing the U.S.C. and FELD got this going when they did.
gharmon wrote:
My ER isnt filling up. We have less Covid type presentations but we are testing a ton more people. We are at about a 1-1.5 hour...
My ER isnt filling up. We have less Covid type presentations but we are testing a ton more people. We are at about a 1-1.5 hour result time. We are also seeing a rise in the stupid shit coming back in which means people are not as worried about it anymore and they need their attention fix by coming to the ER.
gharmon.... just curious what you believe the accuracy to be on the standard Covid test, as well as the quick turnaround test (1.5 hrs) you mentioned. There is info out there that says the accuracy of these tests is only 60-70%. Any thoughts?
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RichieW13
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RichieW13 6/10/2020 1:29pm
6/10/2020 1:29pm
avidchimp wrote:
It would be interesting to do some contact tracing for sure. As was posted above, Utah is blowing up in the number of cases and hospitalizations...
It would be interesting to do some contact tracing for sure. As was posted above, Utah is blowing up in the number of cases and hospitalizations. Much like every state that started opening up around Memorial Day. Which was how long ago?

Oh yeah, about two weeks ago. Same as the incubation period...
kpiper wrote:
The increases could be just that there is more and more testing going on everywhere.
Utah's rate of positive tests has been increasing.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/06/01/rate-positive-covid/
dpingree101
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dpingree101 6/10/2020 1:37pm
6/10/2020 1:37pm
avidchimp wrote:
Please note I also said hospitalizations. Those are the numbers that need to be paid attention. E.R.'s around the country are filling up quickly. Good thing...
Please note I also said hospitalizations. Those are the numbers that need to be paid attention. E.R.'s around the country are filling up quickly.

Good thing the U.S.C. and FELD got this going when they did.
gt80rider wrote:
Filling up quickly with whom, and where? Empty as shit around here, has been since covid started....
Whoa, take it easy... I got lambasted on here for saying that hospitals were empty in Southern California. How dare you share something you know to be factual when it doesn’t line up with what the news is saying?! Apologize immediately and disappear into the bushes.
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MPJC
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MPJC 6/10/2020 1:43pm
6/10/2020 1:43pm
avidchimp wrote:
Please note I also said hospitalizations. Those are the numbers that need to be paid attention. E.R.'s around the country are filling up quickly. Good thing...
Please note I also said hospitalizations. Those are the numbers that need to be paid attention. E.R.'s around the country are filling up quickly.

Good thing the U.S.C. and FELD got this going when they did.
gharmon wrote:
My ER isnt filling up. We have less Covid type presentations but we are testing a ton more people. We are at about a 1-1.5 hour...
My ER isnt filling up. We have less Covid type presentations but we are testing a ton more people. We are at about a 1-1.5 hour result time. We are also seeing a rise in the stupid shit coming back in which means people are not as worried about it anymore and they need their attention fix by coming to the ER.
500 Mike wrote:
gharmon.... just curious what you believe the accuracy to be on the standard Covid test, as well as the quick turnaround test (1.5 hrs) you mentioned...
gharmon.... just curious what you believe the accuracy to be on the standard Covid test, as well as the quick turnaround test (1.5 hrs) you mentioned. There is info out there that says the accuracy of these tests is only 60-70%. Any thoughts?
Great question. I I’m surprised to learn how inaccurate these tests are. I’d take a doctor’s opinion after an examination as the best indicator, so I’d be interested to hear a doctor’s perspective on the role the tests play in his diagnoses.

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RichieW13 6/10/2020 1:47pm
6/10/2020 1:47pm Edited Date/Time 6/10/2020 1:48pm
dimetime wrote:
This is what l'm hearing as well. Sorry folks but Facebook isn't real data. If everyone would stop posting the idiocy they hear from friends or...
This is what l'm hearing as well.

Sorry folks but Facebook isn't real data.

If everyone would stop posting the idiocy they hear from friends or bullshit they read on social media we'd all be the better for it.

I hope one thing we can agree on, with the wild fluctuations of predictions, infections, mortality rates, rules and regs and so on that the opinions of experts seems to more opinon than fact.

The best and most consistent advice and data has come from John Ionidous SP? from Stanford who nailed the stats nearly three months ago when everyone else was running around with their hair on fire.

And finally, god help you if any of you ever belived a word out of Faucis mouth. This dude is a fucking buffoon with a well detailed history of doing exactly what he's done here. Wildly irrational panic over bad data, time and time again.
"The best and most consistent advice and data has come from John Ionidous SP? from Stanford who nailed the stats nearly three months ago"

Why do you think his data is best? Because you agree with it? Because Mark Levin is promoting him?

https://undark.org/2020/04/24/john-ioannidis-covid-19-death-rate-critic…

“The Stanford study was not a true random sample,” said Prabhat Jha, an epidemiologist at the University of Toronto, in an email to Undark. In addition, he said, “their testing was flawed, so they might have many false positives.” In particular, Jha and others have questioned whether recruiting samples from a Facebook ad, rather than something closer to random selection, may have skewed the results, perhaps by selecting for people who had already shown Covid-19 symptoms and wanted to see if they had antibodies, or who have a higher socioeconomic status.


“His current study fits most of the high-risk criteria for falsehood that he outlines, such as publishing in a really hot scientific field with few corroborating studies, using a small bias sample, [and] reporting provocative findings in a politically charged arena,” Gerke said.

“If you just go through his own work,” Gerke added, “he seems to be breaking all his own rules.”

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Tuna
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Tuna 6/10/2020 2:25pm
6/10/2020 2:25pm
I get dumber every second I read this thread and pretty much anything social media related about Covid. No wonder shit is so fucked up. Everyone is an expert or their opinion is more important than another’s. I guess that’s how it goes in a society that believes the earth is flat and other ridiculous shit.
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