2020 450 Shootouts

Panic_Rev wrote:

How does a magazine threaten an OEM when the OEM has nothing to do with his test?

Panic_Rev wrote:

How does a magazine threaten an OEM when the OEM has nothing to do with his test?

greg570 wrote:

I am in the market for a new bike (my 16 ktm has over 150 hours) and would like to try something else (honda for example)...

I am in the market for a new bike (my 16 ktm has over 150 hours) and would like to try something else (honda for example) but when i think about it...these are the things that matter to me the most and i just cannot justify buying anything else than ktm or husky. Honda is good looking and has great engine and so on but i am not prepared to change clutch plates every 10 hours when i can do over 150 hours on ktms clutch...

Racer111 wrote:

Damn, ML512I feel like the Honda should have gotten a couple extra points for just being the best looking color and best looking bike right out...

Damn, ML512I feel like the Honda should have gotten a couple extra points for just being the best looking color and best looking bike right out of the box. I give it a 8!

Harry Backmon wrote:

A couple extra points would have meant it finished even lower. You really should have known.

racerxx276 wrote:

Great Shootout video ML, really appreciate what your doing... That said, I was This close to leaving KTM and getting a Yamaha basically due to the...

Great Shootout video ML, really appreciate what your doing...

That said, I was This close to leaving KTM and getting a Yamaha basically due to the balance and suspension.
Then I start hearing that the yamaha's are blowing up... not just on the forum's , but from trusted tuners.

Yamaha engines used to be bulletproof, not sure what they changed but apparently no longer...

Guess I'll once again see if I can't make the KTM ride like it should...

sandtrack315 wrote:

Question for ML152: how did you break in each bike? Manufacturers suggestion or your own routine?

racerxx276 wrote:

Great Shootout video ML, really appreciate what your doing... That said, I was This close to leaving KTM and getting a Yamaha basically due to the...

Great Shootout video ML, really appreciate what your doing...

That said, I was This close to leaving KTM and getting a Yamaha basically due to the balance and suspension.
Then I start hearing that the yamaha's are blowing up... not just on the forum's , but from trusted tuners.

Yamaha engines used to be bulletproof, not sure what they changed but apparently no longer...

Guess I'll once again see if I can't make the KTM ride like it should...

sandtrack315 wrote:

I’m not convinced this is a real phenomenon versus reporting bias and base rates of how many people are buying Yamahas these days. I wouldn’t let...

I’m not convinced this is a real phenomenon versus reporting bias and base rates of how many people are buying Yamahas these days. I wouldn’t let it deter you. I doubt they are less reliable than any other brand.

Mr. Info wrote:

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have...

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have pissed a lot of the magazines making them angry trying to one up them instead of playing by industry practice. Seems like you have a hidden agenda ML.
What else in this shootout is also not true. You don’t have credibility with several mags their words not mine. And I have no credibility with anybody and that’s ok but your burning bridges you might one day need to cross. Your only hurting yourself.

racerxx276 wrote:

Great Shootout video ML, really appreciate what your doing... That said, I was This close to leaving KTM and getting a Yamaha basically due to the...

Great Shootout video ML, really appreciate what your doing...

That said, I was This close to leaving KTM and getting a Yamaha basically due to the balance and suspension.
Then I start hearing that the yamaha's are blowing up... not just on the forum's , but from trusted tuners.

Yamaha engines used to be bulletproof, not sure what they changed but apparently no longer...

Guess I'll once again see if I can't make the KTM ride like it should...

sandtrack315 wrote:

I’m not convinced this is a real phenomenon versus reporting bias and base rates of how many people are buying Yamahas these days. I wouldn’t let...

I’m not convinced this is a real phenomenon versus reporting bias and base rates of how many people are buying Yamahas these days. I wouldn’t let it deter you. I doubt they are less reliable than any other brand.

captmoto wrote:

ML, did you test he KTM/Husky with the vented side panels and did you see any difference in the feel of the power delivery?

shortcourse wrote:

ML, How about taking average type guys and do a three day shootout? Take six guys that are B/C unsponsored riders so it not a pro's...

ML, How about taking average type guys and do a three day shootout? Take six guys that are B/C unsponsored riders so it not a pro's perspective on the bikes. Those riders are the meat of the sales of MX bikes and it might throw a different twist on which bike the average rider likes. Maybe even put a couple of woods/desert riders in there too. But they all should be unsponsored.

sandtrack315 wrote:

Question for ML152: how did you break in each bike? Manufacturers suggestion or your own routine?

ML512 wrote:

My own routine. Pretty simple, one hour on each bike, then change oil, degrease a few things, re-torque a few things, fresh air filters, then placed...

My own routine. Pretty simple, one hour on each bike, then change oil, degrease a few things, re-torque a few things, fresh air filters, then placed on fresh tires.

Mr. Info wrote:

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have...

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have pissed a lot of the magazines making them angry trying to one up them instead of playing by industry practice. Seems like you have a hidden agenda ML.
What else in this shootout is also not true. You don’t have credibility with several mags their words not mine. And I have no credibility with anybody and that’s ok but your burning bridges you might one day need to cross. Your only hurting yourself.

Mr. Info wrote:

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have...

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have pissed a lot of the magazines making them angry trying to one up them instead of playing by industry practice. Seems like you have a hidden agenda ML.
What else in this shootout is also not true. You don’t have credibility with several mags their words not mine. And I have no credibility with anybody and that’s ok but your burning bridges you might one day need to cross. Your only hurting yourself.

Brent wrote:

...you seem like a half- way intelligent guy, but your statement above reeks of arrogance and superiority, not unlike the attitude of a certain veteran MX...

...you seem like a half- way intelligent guy, but your statement above reeks of arrogance and superiority, not unlike the attitude of a certain veteran MX magazine editor.

In regards to "a lot of other magazines" being pissed off, there is no question who is upset, so just say the name everyone knows who it is anyway.

"industry Practice"? shit the dirt bike magazine industry is dying a slow death, I'm glad to see things shaken up. The guy went out and BOUGHT the bikes, he didn't have to wait for a magazine loaner to be returned and refreshed to test.

Michael Lindsay comes across as a well spoken, knowledgeable tester, and is refreshing to hear what he has to say, no matter who dislikes it.

Sorry, Virginia, but the future of dirt bike content is with guys like Michael, not some paper magazine with more ads than content.

cody41 wrote:

What is the measurement from the butt to the back of the seat when setting sag?

Mr. Info wrote:

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have...

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have pissed a lot of the magazines making them angry trying to one up them instead of playing by industry practice. Seems like you have a hidden agenda ML.
What else in this shootout is also not true. You don’t have credibility with several mags their words not mine. And I have no credibility with anybody and that’s ok but your burning bridges you might one day need to cross. Your only hurting yourself.

Brent wrote:

...you seem like a half- way intelligent guy, but your statement above reeks of arrogance and superiority, not unlike the attitude of a certain veteran MX...

...you seem like a half- way intelligent guy, but your statement above reeks of arrogance and superiority, not unlike the attitude of a certain veteran MX magazine editor.

In regards to "a lot of other magazines" being pissed off, there is no question who is upset, so just say the name everyone knows who it is anyway.

"industry Practice"? shit the dirt bike magazine industry is dying a slow death, I'm glad to see things shaken up. The guy went out and BOUGHT the bikes, he didn't have to wait for a magazine loaner to be returned and refreshed to test.

Michael Lindsay comes across as a well spoken, knowledgeable tester, and is refreshing to hear what he has to say, no matter who dislikes it.

Sorry, Virginia, but the future of dirt bike content is with guys like Michael, not some paper magazine with more ads than content.

TeamGreen wrote:

Brent is 100% correct. "Mr. Info" is correct on a few points, well...one point: People are pissed...hell, they're scared...because Michael changed things...in-fact... He changed the paradigm...

Brent is 100% correct.

"Mr. Info" is correct on a few points, well...one point:
People are pissed...hell, they're scared...because Michael changed things...in-fact...
He changed the paradigm.

And, to that point, "Mr. Info":
As for..."You don't have credibility with several mags"...& then it's poorly deflected with "their words, not mine"...
W T F?
They are LITERALLY the COMPETITION!
Who The Hell (or you can insert the proper "F" word) are they to say a damn thing?
Why The Hell do you (Mr. Info) care?
(That's rhetorical. See above where Brent already drove it home. It was simply my turn to use the stick on the dead horse).

Let's talk about "Industry Practices":
There was a time...a long time ago...in a galaxy far, far away...when your friends (at a certain publishing company) could test a bike and report on it BEFORE it was available at your local dealer.
A "lead time", if you will.
Back in the good ol' days, the cool guys at the cool mags could gather up all the bikes, head on over to Indian Dunes, Saddleback or Carlsbad and wring out all the new 125s, 250s and even...500's and publish their results BEFORE we could go out and buy them at our local dealer.

As I said...and like the phrase I stole from the original Star Wars opening crawl...
A Long Time Ago.
So...
Things have changed.
The new bikes are on dealer floors before their available to the media...or so it would seem.
So, there's always that.

Then there's Michael's original point and I, personally, know that he's wanted to do a shoot-out this way for quite a while.
Why?
As he says in the video...he wanted to do it in the most honest and true to life way that "the average Joe" would do it...
IF...I say "if"...the average Joe could.
That means getting a bike that no-one's performed any special prep on & also not having those bikes out of his sight and out of his control...as some other folks can tell ya...if they're honest...there were times...especially back in the day...when test bikes got A LOT of "special attention". There are some really good stories there...if ya dig for them.

So, I don't see any need to climb up Michael's ass for being resourceful, creative, smart...thinking out of the box...and doing all the work necessary to get the "Info" out there in a timely and, dare I say, useful manor.

Or, as someone once wrote in one of your friend's sister publications...

"You really should have known."

Mr. Info wrote:

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have...

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have pissed a lot of the magazines making them angry trying to one up them instead of playing by industry practice. Seems like you have a hidden agenda ML.
What else in this shootout is also not true. You don’t have credibility with several mags their words not mine. And I have no credibility with anybody and that’s ok but your burning bridges you might one day need to cross. Your only hurting yourself.