How many years until electric bikes in SX and MXGP?

arebnac
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Edited Date/Time 5/6/2021 3:06pm
Hey, We KNOW that 99% of us here dont like eDirt bikes and DONT WANT to see them racing and bla bla bla
- everybody knows, ok? This is just for the conversation, ok?

But in how many years do you expect to see the first wave of "manufacturers demanding eDirt bikes" or Feld/Youthstream (us/europe) starting the conversation about it for the coming years?

TBH I thought they would be around already. I thought ALTA would have the permission to run in the 250cc class in SX after those RB's Straight Rhythm events. It looked Alta had the range to race a SX event. (20 minutesISH)
I know its complicated to have a big battery in a dirt bike and Im honestly not seeing much developement being done when compared to cars.

But I'd guess SX will have eBikes in 4 or 5 years... and MXGP after that.

Again...We KNOW YOU DONT WANT eDirt Bikes in SX and MXGP. Its just a conversation.

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peltier626
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5/4/2021 3:34pm
7 yrs, as an option.
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Falcon
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5/4/2021 3:55pm
SX participation will lag shortly behind model availability. They won't create a class and hope someone fills it with a product.
When there are a couple manufacturers in the game, they'll get cracking on some rules.
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Stuntman949
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5/4/2021 4:01pm
And how long until they're an advantage
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Darrin Willis
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5/4/2021 4:07pm
Im gonna say 15 to 20 years. Minimum. Way behind vehicles. The need for it isn't there either. Co2 from mx and offroad is a drop in the ocean.
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The Shop

5/4/2021 4:09pm
99%, at a guess i think 75%, I think if prices were similar and there were different OEM,s 25% would jump ship now.
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skeef
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Fantasy
5/4/2021 4:12pm
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msp332
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5/4/2021 4:58pm
Will not happen until the manufacturers who control the rules have one available to sell.

Zero had dirt bikes that could race motocross for 24 hours with battery swaps in 2009.
Alta Redshift prototype was 2011
Alta Redshifts were sold to the public in 2016- 5 years ago!
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Brent
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5/4/2021 5:17pm
7 years
I kind of see an issue with charging these bikes between motos unless battery technology changes

At the local level, how do you do it? Not every track will put in a charging station, and a trickle charger attached to a truck alternator would be too slow.

The KTM FreeRide takes 135 minutes and draws 13 amps in Fast charge mode. Everyone would have to carry a larger generator with them and have two hours to kill between races.

I don't see it happening until the batteries get better or can be swapped out as easily as my 18V Milwaukee drill...

dge532
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5/4/2021 5:51pm
As an old guy who has dabbled in rc cars since the 80s, I can't wait for electrics. I think its the only way my grandkids will possibly get a taste of this great sport, and I think what ktm is doing is brilliant. They're grooming the next generation that will grow up knowing nothing else and skipping trying to convert a bunch of old hard heads. As these kids grow up and batteries progress, new full size models will appear. 5-7 years seems abt right
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5/4/2021 5:57pm Edited Date/Time 5/4/2021 6:06pm
It wouldn’t surprise me to see it in MXGP first. Europe leans pretty far to the left, especially on environmental matters. They have already been racing electric bikes on road courses in Europe (or they did until a lithium ion battery caught fire and burned them all down).
Feld will fight it tooth and nail. It will be tough to pack a stadium full of people to watch a race where the only thing you can hear is chain slap.
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endurox
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5/4/2021 6:40pm
When Honda, Yamaha and the AMA decide. Honda has announced that they will no longer produce an internal combustion engine after 2039. I wonder where the Honda jet sits in this plan?
peltier626
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5/4/2021 7:02pm
Sodium Ion battery's. Power from salt water!
crt32
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5/4/2021 9:00pm
Where do all these batteries come from? The question know one wants to answer 🤦
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wavslide1
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5/4/2021 9:21pm
60% of the time, it works all of the time!
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roninho
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5/5/2021 12:37am
I think it will be quite a while. Closer to a decade then in 5 years.

First there need to be a product available to sell. None of the main manufacturers have that.

When they have that product i still don't see the manufacturers pushing this product before the market is ready.

And i see quite some hurdles before the marekt is ready:
* The negative reaction within the existing mx community. I feel 80% of the sales will have to come from new customers, not existing mx riders based on the reactions i see on e-bikes by current mx riders.

* The costs. I would expect this bike to be in the high end price

* The lack of infrastructure for charging your bike at the track. I rode 70 minutes last saturday, i would expect that you would need to charge an e-bike at least once in between to ride for an hour. There were at least 75 riders at the track where i was last saturday, and that track for sure doesnt have the infrastructure to charge 75 batteries right now.
Alan Dove
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5/5/2021 1:25am
It wouldn’t surprise me to see it in MXGP first. Europe leans pretty far to the left, especially on environmental matters. They have already been racing...
It wouldn’t surprise me to see it in MXGP first. Europe leans pretty far to the left, especially on environmental matters. They have already been racing electric bikes on road courses in Europe (or they did until a lithium ion battery caught fire and burned them all down).
Feld will fight it tooth and nail. It will be tough to pack a stadium full of people to watch a race where the only thing you can hear is chain slap.
Firstly, I think we have more 2-stroke manufacturers than America, certainly ones that build competition engines - Vortex, IAME, Moderna, Ital, Rotax, TKM, TM etc... Karting, which is prevelant around Europe, is mainly 2-stroke and certainly at the high-levels of the sport. Unlike you weak dirtbikers we rejected the move towards 4-stroke for top competition.

Secondly, I think the series that had the fire still exists.

But, you're right about Feld. RedBull doing the 2-stroke straight rhythm and the views it got on its CR500 video demonstrates the grips internal combustion engines have on us all. Rightly so, they generate two key aspects that make life worth living - sound and smell. We can't underestimate how important these are otherwise we're denying biological reality.

I am not sure how electric bikes can overcome the deficit. From a purely competitor point of view they may scrape a market and work, but filling out stadiums and that kind of thing? They tried to revive Paris-Bercy in 2011 with electric karts. It didn't happen in 2012...
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5/5/2021 3:10am Edited Date/Time 5/5/2021 3:10am
Well, from Honda themselves, to run this bike, at MXGP level, it'd need a 1500kg battery to last the duration of a race.

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8500rpm
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5/5/2021 4:21am
I would buy that e-Honda mx bike immeadiatetely if it was no more than say 12k usd and had a battery range of 45min moto and you got a spare battery included in the price.

Even if I have done full engine rebuilds, it's not what I enjoy, I rather be like Jett and Hunter, just race and not mess with oil and engines.

I know many MTB folks who would love moto, but they will never take the plunge as long as it involves oil and engine rebuilds/maintenance.

The sport is high heartrate and adrenalin, not about greasy fingers.

(will soon do a full rebuild again Smile )
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8500rpm
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5/5/2021 4:28am
Sx with sounds like speederbikes from Star Wars Smile
JBecker 72
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5/5/2021 4:30am
endurox wrote:
When Honda, Yamaha and the AMA decide. Honda has announced that they will no longer produce an internal combustion engine after 2039. I wonder where the...
When Honda, Yamaha and the AMA decide. Honda has announced that they will no longer produce an internal combustion engine after 2039. I wonder where the Honda jet sits in this plan?
GE makes that jet engine I believe.
5/5/2021 4:48am
It wouldn’t surprise me to see it in MXGP first. Europe leans pretty far to the left, especially on environmental matters. They have already been racing...
It wouldn’t surprise me to see it in MXGP first. Europe leans pretty far to the left, especially on environmental matters. They have already been racing electric bikes on road courses in Europe (or they did until a lithium ion battery caught fire and burned them all down).
Feld will fight it tooth and nail. It will be tough to pack a stadium full of people to watch a race where the only thing you can hear is chain slap.
You think??
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Johnny Depp
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5/5/2021 6:08am Edited Date/Time 5/5/2021 6:09am
MXGP is likely 1st, since they allow works bikes. The problem is the moto's are too long for current batteries. I think an Alta could compete successfully in SX now, if they could dial in swapping batteries all day.

The save the world gang will be pushing for this soon. Manufacturer's will jump to please them.
5/5/2021 6:56am
I am personally not ready to give up my 2 stroke...

However, I bought an SX-E5 for my 4 year old and it is amazing! I was skeptical when KTM released the electric mini-bike but my dealer convinced me, and honestly you could not give me a gas 50 now. The electric bike is soooo easy to ride and to learn on. We can ride in the back yard, have ridden side walks, and ride at school play grounds. No hot parts to burn little fingers and legs. Doesn't make a "scary" noise, and is confidence inspiring for little kids to ride. Kids have no bias gas vs electric, they just want to ride, and electric fits the bill nicely.

I think we will see a progression of E bikes starting with small bike and transitioning to full size. 50-65's in the next several years, 80's and supermini in 5-7 years, and full size MX bikes in 10+ years.
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5/5/2021 7:33am
Alan Dove said, "... they generate two key aspects that make life worth living - sound and smell. We can't underestimate how important these are otherwise we're denying biological reality."

Um, denying biological reality doesn't seem to be much of a hinderance to modern culture. So don't hang your hat on that one!
mxtech1
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5/5/2021 8:58am
I frequently check job postings for KTM AG. and have noticed that over the last 6 months or so, the jobs related to e-drive R&D is exponentially higher than what it has been in the past. They are frequently hiring software developers, e-drive system architects, e-drive design engineers, electric component buyers (supply management), data engineers, etc. I've spot checked some of the Japanese OEMs to compare....the e-drive job openings don't seem as rampant as what KTM has, but I they also have greater access to internal company resources to work on e-drive development. I also see that Polaris and even Harley Davidson e-drive job openings are way up. The point of all this is that the writing is on the wall.....development is being taken VERY seriously by all of the major OEMs and there is a legitimate race for most of these companies to be first to the market with product in each segment.

My prediction....in 2 to 3 years we will see a bunch of new e-drive offroad models available to the public. However, it's really difficult to predict when/if AMA Pro racing will convert to e-drive or stay strictly ICE. It will depend on what the OEMs want to do. I tend to think that based on the success that Alta was able to demonstrate with the competiveness of their e-bikes (with their relatively limited resources compared to the other OEMs), the other OEMs will not have a major issue getting the e-bikes up to the same performance levels as IDE counterparts. There will likely be a lot of politics involved in how this all plays out.
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D.K.O.N.
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5/5/2021 9:12am Edited Date/Time 5/5/2021 9:13am
7 years
Brent wrote:
I kind of see an issue with charging these bikes between motos unless battery technology changes At the local level, how do you do it? Not...
I kind of see an issue with charging these bikes between motos unless battery technology changes

At the local level, how do you do it? Not every track will put in a charging station, and a trickle charger attached to a truck alternator would be too slow.

The KTM FreeRide takes 135 minutes and draws 13 amps in Fast charge mode. Everyone would have to carry a larger generator with them and have two hours to kill between races.

I don't see it happening until the batteries get better or can be swapped out as easily as my 18V Milwaukee drill...

Some of these bikes will go 80-100 miles on a charge though, so they should get through any SX or MX day. Another thing that would suck is blowing fuses. I have a Trek Rail 5 (eMountain Bike) and I've blown a couple fuses stressing it hard. Like...that's a DNF for sure.

My guess here is 5-10 years they'll try it, it'll be interesting to see how it's handled though. "CC's" isn't a thing at that point, so you have to just mod the SW and gearing to behave like a 450/250...which is a weird thing to govern.
5/5/2021 9:44am
Im gonna say 15 to 20 years. Minimum. Way behind vehicles. The need for it isn't there either. Co2 from mx and offroad is a drop...
Im gonna say 15 to 20 years. Minimum. Way behind vehicles. The need for it isn't there either. Co2 from mx and offroad is a drop in the ocean.
If I had an electric MX bike I could build a small track in my suburban back yard and ride anytime.
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ATKpilot99
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5/5/2021 10:03am
Im gonna say 15 to 20 years. Minimum. Way behind vehicles. The need for it isn't there either. Co2 from mx and offroad is a drop...
Im gonna say 15 to 20 years. Minimum. Way behind vehicles. The need for it isn't there either. Co2 from mx and offroad is a drop in the ocean.
If I had an electric MX bike I could build a small track in my suburban back yard and ride anytime.
Possibly. I don't know what your neighbors are like but in some areas I'm guessing simply kicking up dust would cause complaints.
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