Club MX being sued, could affect other tracks?

Premix
Profile picture for user Premix
Posts
1514
Joined
1/5/2014
Location
AS US
Premix 1/16/2019 4:28pm
1/16/2019 4:28pm
RichieW13 wrote:
AMA has regulations and standards for safety. But they have no ability to force a private track to use their standards - unless that track wants...
AMA has regulations and standards for safety. But they have no ability to force a private track to use their standards - unless that track wants to purchase its liability insurance through AMA.

It would require riders demanding their tracks to be AMA sanctioned for practices and racing.
Hmmmm not a bad idea....I don’t see a downside to this? Promoter can still charge their fee’s, just has to abide by standards set forth. Liability insurance through the governing body, takes liability off track owner as long as they play fair ball. Thoughts?
1
JM485
Profile picture for user JM485
Posts
5422
Joined
10/1/2013
Location
Davis, CA US
JM485 1/16/2019 4:33pm
1/16/2019 4:33pm
kb228 wrote:
I think requiring flaggers and requiring riders’ practices to be split into sessions of at least big bikes and little bikes is a good measure from...
I think requiring flaggers and requiring riders’ practices to be split into sessions of at least big bikes and little bikes is a good measure from a legal standpoint.
Jamie_Munro wrote:
is that not policed over there? here it is easy. classes: kids a b end of story - if A are seen on track with B...
is that not policed over there?

here it is easy.

classes:
kids
a
b

end of story - if A are seen on track with B they get pulled ad vice versa, how to identify? Skills and especially jumps, pretty easy.
That's how pretty much every track I've ever been to does it, or at the very least splits minis and big bikes. I didn't even know keeping all bikes together was a thing until I started reading here, what the hell do people think is going to happen?
Indy mxer
Profile picture for user Indy mxer
Posts
1636
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Linton, IN US
Indy mxer 1/16/2019 4:46pm
1/16/2019 4:46pm
kb228 wrote:
I think requiring flaggers and requiring riders’ practices to be split into sessions of at least big bikes and little bikes is a good measure from...
I think requiring flaggers and requiring riders’ practices to be split into sessions of at least big bikes and little bikes is a good measure from a legal standpoint.
Jamie_Munro wrote:
is that not policed over there? here it is easy. classes: kids a b end of story - if A are seen on track with B...
is that not policed over there?

here it is easy.

classes:
kids
a
b

end of story - if A are seen on track with B they get pulled ad vice versa, how to identify? Skills and especially jumps, pretty easy.
JM485 wrote:
That's how pretty much every track I've ever been to does it, or at the very least splits minis and big bikes. I didn't even know...
That's how pretty much every track I've ever been to does it, or at the very least splits minis and big bikes. I didn't even know keeping all bikes together was a thing until I started reading here, what the hell do people think is going to happen?
I went to my first AMA risk management class back in the mid 90's and they talked about it then. I never forgot that.
Plus as I said, It just makes good sense. MX is risky enough the way it is.
Why take the chance when there's no need to? And then have to live with that the rest of your life.

Putting mini's out with big bikes is just plain foolish.
1
Calihusky
Profile picture for user Calihusky
Posts
182
Joined
10/14/2015
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
Calihusky 1/16/2019 5:19pm
1/16/2019 5:19pm
This is a terrible tragedy and I feel for the family. Whether you feel the state or feds need to regulate motocross or not I feel that there absolutely needs to be a better job done making tracks safer. We wonder how to make the sport more popular and then we have the majority of tracks completely unwelcoming to anyone who wants to learn. Here in SoCal I see the same thing everyone else mentions; all sizes of bike and all levels of riders on every track. As for “beginner” tracks I’ve also seen people scrubbing jumps on these tracks at the same time a kid with training wheels is putting around the track. I love the idea of the Jeff Emig learn to ride days just for beginners but I feel that we can do a lot more in terms of teaching beginners proper technique on safe tracks that are only for beginners. It would be like trying to learn snowboarding but you can only choose between your backyard or a half pipe with people doing 360s. In fact I would recommend facilities have a track for kids with strider bikes, then a track to just practice turns and then have tracks with smaller jumps to move up. That would allow so many new riders to get introduced to the sport without worrying about getting landed on or T-boned.
1

The Shop

See All »
coastlinecascot 1/16/2019 5:25pm
1/16/2019 5:25pm
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the amateur track if your not fast enough. We had broken sessions once at perris. That sucked watching 3 minis going around for 30 minutes.
16
dkg
Profile picture for user dkg
Posts
1863
Joined
9/12/2010
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
dkg 1/16/2019 5:28pm
1/16/2019 5:28pm
Bry145 wrote:
This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport. This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such...
This is a tragedy for sure, but moto is an extremely dangerous sport.

This also shows that smaller family sizes have a big downside if such a tragedy occurs. I come from a family of 3 kids, and if something happened to me my parents would still have a son and daughter to enjoy life with. That doesn't look to be the case here.

Did you really just type this? Congrats, you just took posting to a new low.
5
dkg
Profile picture for user dkg
Posts
1863
Joined
9/12/2010
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
dkg 1/16/2019 5:36pm
1/16/2019 5:36pm
kaptkaos wrote:
I agree, that should not even be factored into the equation. However, I see a lot of issues here. 1. The minor child signed a waiver...
I agree, that should not even be factored into the equation.

However, I see a lot of issues here.

1. The minor child signed a waiver and the parent guardian did not- Neglect by track operator
2. Sending a mini out with full sized bikes- Neglect by track operator
3. The article wasnt clear if there were flaggers on the course or not.

I think for the track to have an insurance policy they must comply with many requirements even including grooming, prep flaggers, no mixed classes, waiver process, and a host of other safety factors.

This is a private facility and not a race facility so I dont know what they are required to provide, but I can tell you its going to be expensive to defend and the outcome may not be cheap either.

Yes moto is a dangerous sport for sure, but we need to be aware of the risks we take and the must be some due diligence on basic safety.

To me, the kid should never have been allowed to enter a track with a "catapult" knowing it was his first time, and especially during an open practice. IMHO minis and beginners should always have dedicated sessions.

Sad that the father did not know enough about the sport to do it safely and that no one at the track was there to guide them. Its a terrible tragedy and totally avoidable. We all are free to take the risks we know about, but we should also be informed of the risks.

No way a first timer should be in that risky situation. Not sure how to prevent it, but maybe it can be written on the waiver that you sign that beginners should never enter a track during an open session and to train the track workers better.
From the article:

The wrongful death lawsuit against Club MX alleges the facility did not have liability insurance at the time of Patrick’s death.


For many of the reasons you list, this could turn out very poorly for Club MX. Maybe to the extent of shutting down the facility. Sad to see .... my heart goes out to the family and to those running Club MX, this isn't going to end well regardless of the outcome and after all is done and said we still have a deceased 13 year old boy.
kaptkaos
Profile picture for user kaptkaos
Posts
1087
Joined
11/17/2015
Location
Miami, FL US
kaptkaos 1/16/2019 6:08pm
1/16/2019 6:08pm
coastlinecascot wrote:
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the...
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the amateur track if your not fast enough. We had broken sessions once at perris. That sucked watching 3 minis going around for 30 minutes.
I downvoted this even though I think waiting turns sucks, its just the attitude of "if youre not fast enough" that needs to completely be eradicated from public moto tracks.

Not every facility has a mini night, most dont even have a mini, amateur or senior track, the only track within a 3 hour ride of me has only ONE track, and we all have to share it on the weekend, and its not open during the week, much less for minis or beginners.

All the fast guys once sucked and you will suck again at some point, thats why we need to have an atmosphere that encourages new young riders into the sport.

5
coastlinecascot 1/16/2019 6:12pm
1/16/2019 6:12pm Edited Date/Time 1/16/2019 6:16pm
coastlinecascot wrote:
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the...
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the amateur track if your not fast enough. We had broken sessions once at perris. That sucked watching 3 minis going around for 30 minutes.
kaptkaos wrote:
I downvoted this even though I think waiting turns sucks, its just the attitude of "if youre not fast enough" that needs to completely be eradicated...
I downvoted this even though I think waiting turns sucks, its just the attitude of "if youre not fast enough" that needs to completely be eradicated from public moto tracks.

Not every facility has a mini night, most dont even have a mini, amateur or senior track, the only track within a 3 hour ride of me has only ONE track, and we all have to share it on the weekend, and its not open during the week, much less for minis or beginners.

All the fast guys once sucked and you will suck again at some point, thats why we need to have an atmosphere that encourages new young riders into the sport.

Where did i say you should be eradicated from public tracks? Hey drama queen they have other tracls besides the main track. If your not fast enough stay the hell off the main track or even the vet. It's not rocket science. I see it all the time at milestone. Slow big and little guys on the main. Can't hold a line and generally out of control. Thats why they have an amateur track.
8
dkg
Profile picture for user dkg
Posts
1863
Joined
9/12/2010
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
dkg 1/16/2019 6:15pm
1/16/2019 6:15pm
brocster wrote:
Tracks shouldn’t be untouchable. However, parents that load up a dirt bike and drive to an open to the public track for jr. to ride need...
Tracks shouldn’t be untouchable. However, parents that load up a dirt bike and drive to an open to the public track for jr. to ride need to have some situational awareness and not send jr. out if things don’t seem right. Ask some questions, the track owners, people you are parked by etc. etc. You can’t just set your kids up for failure just b/c other kids are doing it. Would you send your kid in the ocean swell fresh out of swimming lessons? Yes it’s sad and a terrible tradgedy and yes there is some fault of the track but ultimately it falls on the parent. If you don’t know, you don’t know.
Agreed. According to what the article said, this occurred.

For months, Patrick had begged his dad to take him to a place like this, but his father, Ed Terry, had refused.

The motocross track in their hometown of Lilesville, N.C., was too dangerous for Patrick, a beginner who had only gone out for rides along the mostly flat acres of trail in his backyard.

But seeing that Club MX, in nearby Chesterfield, S.C., offered on-site training and tracks for all levels, Terry gave in and agreed to take Patrick there to ride a motocross track for the first time.

It was December 2014, four days before Christmas, when they unloaded the Yamaha YZ 85 bike and paid $25 to use the practice track. Terry said an employee pointed them toward it after he explained his son was 13 and a first-time rider at the track.


For discussion purposes, let me add:

In South Carolina, the rule is comparative negligence: even if a plaintiff is partially negligent, that plaintiff can still recover if their negligence does not exceed the negligence of others.


Looks like this is going to be one of those situations where the blame pie is going to be carved up. If Dad is determined to be less than 50% of fault there will be an award that will be reduced by the amount of Dad's negligence. there could be multiple people at fault here: Dad, the deceased child, the other rider and Club MX. Unlikely the deceased child will be found negligent.

The next question is who pays the Plaintiff and to what extent (called joint and several liability):

Joint and several liability does not apply to any defendant whose conduct is less than 50% of the total fault for the plaintiff’s indivisible damages. Such a defendant is liable for only the percentage of fault attributed to him by the fact finder. If the defendant is more than 50% at fault, he will be jointly and severally liable.


A Jury's determination of fault is going to create a drastic swing in the potential exposure to the Track. And to think that it is uninsured. What a sad situation for all involved.




Indy mxer
Profile picture for user Indy mxer
Posts
1636
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Linton, IN US
Indy mxer 1/16/2019 6:27pm
1/16/2019 6:27pm
coastlinecascot wrote:
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the...
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the amateur track if your not fast enough. We had broken sessions once at perris. That sucked watching 3 minis going around for 30 minutes.
kaptkaos wrote:
I downvoted this even though I think waiting turns sucks, its just the attitude of "if youre not fast enough" that needs to completely be eradicated...
I downvoted this even though I think waiting turns sucks, its just the attitude of "if youre not fast enough" that needs to completely be eradicated from public moto tracks.

Not every facility has a mini night, most dont even have a mini, amateur or senior track, the only track within a 3 hour ride of me has only ONE track, and we all have to share it on the weekend, and its not open during the week, much less for minis or beginners.

All the fast guys once sucked and you will suck again at some point, thats why we need to have an atmosphere that encourages new young riders into the sport.

coastlinecascot wrote:
Where did i say you should be eradicated from public tracks? Hey drama queen they have other tracls besides the main track. If your not fast...
Where did i say you should be eradicated from public tracks? Hey drama queen they have other tracls besides the main track. If your not fast enough stay the hell off the main track or even the vet. It's not rocket science. I see it all the time at milestone. Slow big and little guys on the main. Can't hold a line and generally out of control. Thats why they have an amateur track.
Hey Einstein hate to break it to you, but where most of us ride there's only one track.
And sorry you have to wait a bit to get back out there. Nothing is worth getting a young boy or girl hurt when it can be prevented.
Besides, they paid the same amount to ride as you, skill level doesn't matter. And they also have to wait around and watch you ride your session.
Obviously you've never been a promoter or know anything about safety and liability.

11
1
kaptkaos
Profile picture for user kaptkaos
Posts
1087
Joined
11/17/2015
Location
Miami, FL US
kaptkaos 1/16/2019 6:30pm
1/16/2019 6:30pm
dkg wrote:
From the article: [quote]The wrongful death lawsuit against Club MX alleges the facility did not have liability insurance at the time of Patrick’s death.[/quote] For many...
From the article:

The wrongful death lawsuit against Club MX alleges the facility did not have liability insurance at the time of Patrick’s death.


For many of the reasons you list, this could turn out very poorly for Club MX. Maybe to the extent of shutting down the facility. Sad to see .... my heart goes out to the family and to those running Club MX, this isn't going to end well regardless of the outcome and after all is done and said we still have a deceased 13 year old boy.
You are right, the best possible outcome in this is for the Father or the Father of another accident victim become a very strong advocate and help raise awareness. Moto is dangerous as hell, but this was avoidable and its really hard to place the blame solely on the kids father. He may have thought he was doing all the right things, but I know if I go to a gun store, they dont just sell me a gun and bullets and say go over there and have ball, nor can I go to a Dive Shop, fillup tanks and get on a dive boat without a scuba certification. I cant race my car in a club race without a certification ride, car inspection, and drivers meeting, etc.

To the poster who said moto is just about the most dangerous sport, yeah its dangerous, but there are some other sports just as dangerous if not more, I wonder how the major injury/death rates compare. I cant imagine the waivers you must sign to race at the Isle of Man, or the Real Road Racing circuit in Europe. Scuba Diving, Deep Open Water Free diving, Bullfighting, Rodeo, Indycar Ovals, F1 at Monaco, mountain climbing, jumping out of a plane in a squirrel suit.... its all pretty dangerous.
2
zehn
Profile picture for user zehn
Posts
7308
Joined
1/15/2013
Location
Anchorage, AK US
zehn 1/16/2019 6:32pm
1/16/2019 6:32pm
coastlinecascot wrote:
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the...
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the amateur track if your not fast enough. We had broken sessions once at perris. That sucked watching 3 minis going around for 30 minutes.
kaptkaos wrote:
I downvoted this even though I think waiting turns sucks, its just the attitude of "if youre not fast enough" that needs to completely be eradicated...
I downvoted this even though I think waiting turns sucks, its just the attitude of "if youre not fast enough" that needs to completely be eradicated from public moto tracks.

Not every facility has a mini night, most dont even have a mini, amateur or senior track, the only track within a 3 hour ride of me has only ONE track, and we all have to share it on the weekend, and its not open during the week, much less for minis or beginners.

All the fast guys once sucked and you will suck again at some point, thats why we need to have an atmosphere that encourages new young riders into the sport.

coastlinecascot wrote:
Where did i say you should be eradicated from public tracks? Hey drama queen they have other tracls besides the main track. If your not fast...
Where did i say you should be eradicated from public tracks? Hey drama queen they have other tracls besides the main track. If your not fast enough stay the hell off the main track or even the vet. It's not rocket science. I see it all the time at milestone. Slow big and little guys on the main. Can't hold a line and generally out of control. Thats why they have an amateur track.
Reading is hard.

He said the attitude of “if you’re not fast enough” should be eradicated not that he should be eradicated from the tracks.
1
Indy mxer
Profile picture for user Indy mxer
Posts
1636
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Linton, IN US
Indy mxer 1/16/2019 6:35pm
1/16/2019 6:35pm
Just a heads up to other promoters: If you run mini's and big bikes together, and God forbid something bad happens.
Be prepared to answer this question from a lawyer. "why did you have the mini's running with big bikes?".
Again, the AMA warned you about this. Unfortunately too many are rolling the dice.
coastlinecascot 1/16/2019 6:41pm
1/16/2019 6:41pm Edited Date/Time 1/16/2019 6:46pm
kaptkaos wrote:
I downvoted this even though I think waiting turns sucks, its just the attitude of "if youre not fast enough" that needs to completely be eradicated...
I downvoted this even though I think waiting turns sucks, its just the attitude of "if youre not fast enough" that needs to completely be eradicated from public moto tracks.

Not every facility has a mini night, most dont even have a mini, amateur or senior track, the only track within a 3 hour ride of me has only ONE track, and we all have to share it on the weekend, and its not open during the week, much less for minis or beginners.

All the fast guys once sucked and you will suck again at some point, thats why we need to have an atmosphere that encourages new young riders into the sport.

coastlinecascot wrote:
Where did i say you should be eradicated from public tracks? Hey drama queen they have other tracls besides the main track. If your not fast...
Where did i say you should be eradicated from public tracks? Hey drama queen they have other tracls besides the main track. If your not fast enough stay the hell off the main track or even the vet. It's not rocket science. I see it all the time at milestone. Slow big and little guys on the main. Can't hold a line and generally out of control. Thats why they have an amateur track.
Indy mxer wrote:
Hey Einstein hate to break it to you, but where most of us ride there's only one track. And sorry you have to wait a bit...
Hey Einstein hate to break it to you, but where most of us ride there's only one track.
And sorry you have to wait a bit to get back out there. Nothing is worth getting a young boy or girl hurt when it can be prevented.
Besides, they paid the same amount to ride as you, skill level doesn't matter. And they also have to wait around and watch you ride your session.
Obviously you've never been a promoter or know anything about safety and liability.

Maybe your local track needs to add an amateur track. Doesn't take much space and keeps the newbs off the main. Hey if your ok with broken up practice then good for you. I'm not ok with it. Apparently the majority at our tracks agrees with me. Since they abandoned that policy.
14
GeorgiePorgie 1/16/2019 6:42pm
1/16/2019 6:42pm Edited Date/Time 1/16/2019 6:43pm
And if we can address the stereotype of "riding is easy the bike does all the work" maybe it wouldnt give parents with zero moto knowledge a false sense of security to just send them out on any track at any time.
coastlinecascot 1/16/2019 6:45pm
1/16/2019 6:45pm
kaptkaos wrote:
I downvoted this even though I think waiting turns sucks, its just the attitude of "if youre not fast enough" that needs to completely be eradicated...
I downvoted this even though I think waiting turns sucks, its just the attitude of "if youre not fast enough" that needs to completely be eradicated from public moto tracks.

Not every facility has a mini night, most dont even have a mini, amateur or senior track, the only track within a 3 hour ride of me has only ONE track, and we all have to share it on the weekend, and its not open during the week, much less for minis or beginners.

All the fast guys once sucked and you will suck again at some point, thats why we need to have an atmosphere that encourages new young riders into the sport.

coastlinecascot wrote:
Where did i say you should be eradicated from public tracks? Hey drama queen they have other tracls besides the main track. If your not fast...
Where did i say you should be eradicated from public tracks? Hey drama queen they have other tracls besides the main track. If your not fast enough stay the hell off the main track or even the vet. It's not rocket science. I see it all the time at milestone. Slow big and little guys on the main. Can't hold a line and generally out of control. Thats why they have an amateur track.
zehn wrote:
Reading is hard.

He said the attitude of “if you’re not fast enough” should be eradicated not that he should be eradicated from the tracks.
Since he qouted me, one would come to the conclusion I had stated this.
2
brocster
Profile picture for user brocster
Posts
3634
Joined
6/9/2009
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
brocster 1/16/2019 7:21pm
1/16/2019 7:21pm
coastlinecascot wrote:
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the...
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the amateur track if your not fast enough. We had broken sessions once at perris. That sucked watching 3 minis going around for 30 minutes.
What is “fast enough”? Bet you are one of those elitist that think everyone slower than you shouldn’t be on the track at all ever. Get off your high horse bud, a kid lost his life and he shouldn’t have and a track is in trouble and shouldn’t be. Lets hope this doesn’t happen at your track (my track) and it gets taken away.
4

Pit Row

See All »
coastlinecascot 1/16/2019 7:55pm
1/16/2019 7:55pm
coastlinecascot wrote:
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the...
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the amateur track if your not fast enough. We had broken sessions once at perris. That sucked watching 3 minis going around for 30 minutes.
brocster wrote:
What is “fast enough”? Bet you are one of those elitist that think everyone slower than you shouldn’t be on the track at all ever. Get...
What is “fast enough”? Bet you are one of those elitist that think everyone slower than you shouldn’t be on the track at all ever. Get off your high horse bud, a kid lost his life and he shouldn’t have and a track is in trouble and shouldn’t be. Lets hope this doesn’t happen at your track (my track) and it gets taken away.
Elitist? No.
Fast enough would be one that is able to at least double everything and be able to hold a line. Also be aware of ones surroundings and able to see ahead. If you have to roll everything and can't understand don't be in the fast line. Don't be on the main track with 20 or 30 others guys having to dodge you. Wait till everyone leaves and 2 people are on the track if you want to check out the main.

Seriously are some of you guys that dense not to understand that?
6
brocster
Profile picture for user brocster
Posts
3634
Joined
6/9/2009
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
brocster 1/16/2019 8:15pm
1/16/2019 8:15pm
coastlinecascot wrote:
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the...
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the amateur track if your not fast enough. We had broken sessions once at perris. That sucked watching 3 minis going around for 30 minutes.
brocster wrote:
What is “fast enough”? Bet you are one of those elitist that think everyone slower than you shouldn’t be on the track at all ever. Get...
What is “fast enough”? Bet you are one of those elitist that think everyone slower than you shouldn’t be on the track at all ever. Get off your high horse bud, a kid lost his life and he shouldn’t have and a track is in trouble and shouldn’t be. Lets hope this doesn’t happen at your track (my track) and it gets taken away.
coastlinecascot wrote:
Elitist? No. Fast enough would be one that is able to at least double everything and be able to hold a line. Also be aware of...
Elitist? No.
Fast enough would be one that is able to at least double everything and be able to hold a line. Also be aware of ones surroundings and able to see ahead. If you have to roll everything and can't understand don't be in the fast line. Don't be on the main track with 20 or 30 others guys having to dodge you. Wait till everyone leaves and 2 people are on the track if you want to check out the main.

Seriously are some of you guys that dense not to understand that?
So thats “your” rules and not the tracks rules correct? Same can go for you, why don’t you wait til 2 people are on the track and you can blaze the main.

You think the “fast” guys feel the same about you? I am not a betting man but I’d say probably so.

Surely you are smart enough to figure out you have stated your case and also the problem. There are no rules to any track other than the kid track and the SX track. Other than that it’s a free for all and there lyes the problem. Watering the main, everyone on the vet, watering the vet, everyone on the main. Everyone is in everyones way, including you.
5
mxnick
Profile picture for user mxnick
Posts
817
Joined
12/4/2007
Location
Nor Cal, CA US
mxnick 1/16/2019 8:25pm
1/16/2019 8:25pm
Tarz483 wrote:
After reading this it sounds like Glen helen is just an accident waiting to happen, dont they mix bike sizes and skill levels Daily.
Its an accident that already happened (several times)....
kaptkaos
Profile picture for user kaptkaos
Posts
1087
Joined
11/17/2015
Location
Miami, FL US
kaptkaos 1/16/2019 8:26pm
1/16/2019 8:26pm
coastlinecascot wrote:
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the...
No, sessions should not be broken up between little and big bikes. We have mini night here in socal. Stay to that night or to the amateur track if your not fast enough. We had broken sessions once at perris. That sucked watching 3 minis going around for 30 minutes.
brocster wrote:
What is “fast enough”? Bet you are one of those elitist that think everyone slower than you shouldn’t be on the track at all ever. Get...
What is “fast enough”? Bet you are one of those elitist that think everyone slower than you shouldn’t be on the track at all ever. Get off your high horse bud, a kid lost his life and he shouldn’t have and a track is in trouble and shouldn’t be. Lets hope this doesn’t happen at your track (my track) and it gets taken away.
coastlinecascot wrote:
Elitist? No. Fast enough would be one that is able to at least double everything and be able to hold a line. Also be aware of...
Elitist? No.
Fast enough would be one that is able to at least double everything and be able to hold a line. Also be aware of ones surroundings and able to see ahead. If you have to roll everything and can't understand don't be in the fast line. Don't be on the main track with 20 or 30 others guys having to dodge you. Wait till everyone leaves and 2 people are on the track if you want to check out the main.

Seriously are some of you guys that dense not to understand that?
Each of your posts keeps getting down voted and the more you write the more the worse it gets.

Clearly my wording was accurate as others were able to comprehend that it was the 'fast enough" attitude that needs to be eradicated. Then you only have the ME perspective. Never mind its not your track, never mind other people paid to share the same track, never mind that the entire world is not SoCal where there are 3 tracks at every facility and multiple facilities within a 1 hour drive. I would venture to say that most facilities around the US do not have a second track, maybe just a small turn track at most. You dont go from new mini rider on a turn track to being Coastlinecascot without some track time.

Please look outside your own little world and consider others for a moment. Its called "Being Mindful". Someones kid was just killed, a racing facility is facing serious litigation and all you can think about is you...get over yourself bud.

4
coastlinecascot 1/16/2019 8:27pm
1/16/2019 8:27pm
brocster wrote:
What is “fast enough”? Bet you are one of those elitist that think everyone slower than you shouldn’t be on the track at all ever. Get...
What is “fast enough”? Bet you are one of those elitist that think everyone slower than you shouldn’t be on the track at all ever. Get off your high horse bud, a kid lost his life and he shouldn’t have and a track is in trouble and shouldn’t be. Lets hope this doesn’t happen at your track (my track) and it gets taken away.
coastlinecascot wrote:
Elitist? No. Fast enough would be one that is able to at least double everything and be able to hold a line. Also be aware of...
Elitist? No.
Fast enough would be one that is able to at least double everything and be able to hold a line. Also be aware of ones surroundings and able to see ahead. If you have to roll everything and can't understand don't be in the fast line. Don't be on the main track with 20 or 30 others guys having to dodge you. Wait till everyone leaves and 2 people are on the track if you want to check out the main.

Seriously are some of you guys that dense not to understand that?
brocster wrote:
So thats “your” rules and not the tracks rules correct? Same can go for you, why don’t you wait til 2 people are on the track...
So thats “your” rules and not the tracks rules correct? Same can go for you, why don’t you wait til 2 people are on the track and you can blaze the main.

You think the “fast” guys feel the same about you? I am not a betting man but I’d say probably so.

Surely you are smart enough to figure out you have stated your case and also the problem. There are no rules to any track other than the kid track and the SX track. Other than that it’s a free for all and there lyes the problem. Watering the main, everyone on the vet, watering the vet, everyone on the main. Everyone is in everyones way, including you.
Why would I need to wait till the track clears.I don't have a problem jumping everything, holding my line, going with the flow and watching my suroundings. I can hang just fine.
Many many years ago, I was one that waited till the end of the day to ride the main. I paid at the time 25 bucks to ride a beat up main after everyone left to get better. I was over the vet.

Am I dumb enough to ride on pro Wednesdays at milestone ? No way. I'll steer clear. Just fn common sense.

8
coastlinecascot 1/16/2019 8:31pm
1/16/2019 8:31pm
brocster wrote:
What is “fast enough”? Bet you are one of those elitist that think everyone slower than you shouldn’t be on the track at all ever. Get...
What is “fast enough”? Bet you are one of those elitist that think everyone slower than you shouldn’t be on the track at all ever. Get off your high horse bud, a kid lost his life and he shouldn’t have and a track is in trouble and shouldn’t be. Lets hope this doesn’t happen at your track (my track) and it gets taken away.
coastlinecascot wrote:
Elitist? No. Fast enough would be one that is able to at least double everything and be able to hold a line. Also be aware of...
Elitist? No.
Fast enough would be one that is able to at least double everything and be able to hold a line. Also be aware of ones surroundings and able to see ahead. If you have to roll everything and can't understand don't be in the fast line. Don't be on the main track with 20 or 30 others guys having to dodge you. Wait till everyone leaves and 2 people are on the track if you want to check out the main.

Seriously are some of you guys that dense not to understand that?
kaptkaos wrote:
Each of your posts keeps getting down voted and the more you write the more the worse it gets. Clearly my wording was accurate as others...
Each of your posts keeps getting down voted and the more you write the more the worse it gets.

Clearly my wording was accurate as others were able to comprehend that it was the 'fast enough" attitude that needs to be eradicated. Then you only have the ME perspective. Never mind its not your track, never mind other people paid to share the same track, never mind that the entire world is not SoCal where there are 3 tracks at every facility and multiple facilities within a 1 hour drive. I would venture to say that most facilities around the US do not have a second track, maybe just a small turn track at most. You dont go from new mini rider on a turn track to being Coastlinecascot without some track time.

Please look outside your own little world and consider others for a moment. Its called "Being Mindful". Someones kid was just killed, a racing facility is facing serious litigation and all you can think about is you...get over yourself bud.

I don't care if I'm voted down. It's not a popularity contest.
If you only have one track that your situation. To advocate all tracks some with multiple options for all skill levels should have broken up sessions to me is nonsense. What I'm advocating is stay the f off the main when fast guys are on there if you are new. Common sense people
1
11
SmokinJoe439 1/16/2019 8:34pm
1/16/2019 8:34pm
Not all tracks run multiple tracks or have the space to do so. Part of the problem I see are guys showing up signing up for beginner level. Then go out and clear the triples pulling whips and all of the jumps rail the burms and blitz the whoops at least at a B skill just to get another session in.

1
zehn
Profile picture for user zehn
Posts
7308
Joined
1/15/2013
Location
Anchorage, AK US
zehn 1/16/2019 8:40pm
1/16/2019 8:40pm
SmokinJoe439 wrote:
Not all tracks run multiple tracks or have the space to do so. Part of the problem I see are guys showing up signing up for...
Not all tracks run multiple tracks or have the space to do so. Part of the problem I see are guys showing up signing up for beginner level. Then go out and clear the triples pulling whips and all of the jumps rail the burms and blitz the whoops at least at a B skill just to get another session in.

When that happens at track days during road racing they’ll black flag you for the day. At least at the places I’ve ridden
Compromised 1/16/2019 10:05pm
1/16/2019 10:05pm
1. Build tracks that are too difficult for 60% of dirt bike owners

2. Wonder why either a) the sport dies or b) litigation


Why a lot of tracks seemingly only cater to the fast guys/racers is beyond me - the fast guys are a small minority who usually have access to private tracks anyway. The slower riders might not be able to clear everything but they've got cash and they are definitely the majority.

More tracks (and the sport more generally) should be aimed more at the average skill level.



7
coastlinecascot 1/16/2019 10:15pm
1/16/2019 10:15pm
Compromised wrote:
1. Build tracks that are too difficult for 60% of dirt bike owners 2. Wonder why either a) the sport dies or b) litigation Why a...
1. Build tracks that are too difficult for 60% of dirt bike owners

2. Wonder why either a) the sport dies or b) litigation


Why a lot of tracks seemingly only cater to the fast guys/racers is beyond me - the fast guys are a small minority who usually have access to private tracks anyway. The slower riders might not be able to clear everything but they've got cash and they are definitely the majority.

More tracks (and the sport more generally) should be aimed more at the average skill level.



In my opinion the tracks here in ca have taken that advise. Main Tracks like fox, perris, and milestone, have gotten easier and more options to double stuff instead of having to triple. Cahuilla has always been pretty easy .

yz133rider
Profile picture for user yz133rider
Posts
4535
Joined
8/1/2013
Location
Avondale, PA US
yz133rider 1/17/2019 12:31am
1/17/2019 12:31am
Compromised wrote:
1. Build tracks that are too difficult for 60% of dirt bike owners 2. Wonder why either a) the sport dies or b) litigation Why a...
1. Build tracks that are too difficult for 60% of dirt bike owners

2. Wonder why either a) the sport dies or b) litigation


Why a lot of tracks seemingly only cater to the fast guys/racers is beyond me - the fast guys are a small minority who usually have access to private tracks anyway. The slower riders might not be able to clear everything but they've got cash and they are definitely the majority.

More tracks (and the sport more generally) should be aimed more at the average skill level.



coastlinecascot wrote:
In my opinion the tracks here in ca have taken that advise. Main Tracks like fox, perris, and milestone, have gotten easier and more options to...
In my opinion the tracks here in ca have taken that advise. Main Tracks like fox, perris, and milestone, have gotten easier and more options to double stuff instead of having to triple. Cahuilla has always been pretty easy .

Coastline your opinion of easy is vastly different than an actual begginner.


Also tracks keep going more and more towards outdoor supercross tracks and less to real outdoor moto.

Mammoth raceway is outdoor moto.turn jump turn jump jump jump jump turn etc is outdoor sx.
3
Indy mxer
Profile picture for user Indy mxer
Posts
1636
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Linton, IN US
Indy mxer 1/17/2019 4:04am
1/17/2019 4:04am
Compromised wrote:
1. Build tracks that are too difficult for 60% of dirt bike owners 2. Wonder why either a) the sport dies or b) litigation Why a...
1. Build tracks that are too difficult for 60% of dirt bike owners

2. Wonder why either a) the sport dies or b) litigation


Why a lot of tracks seemingly only cater to the fast guys/racers is beyond me - the fast guys are a small minority who usually have access to private tracks anyway. The slower riders might not be able to clear everything but they've got cash and they are definitely the majority.

More tracks (and the sport more generally) should be aimed more at the average skill level.



coastlinecascot wrote:
In my opinion the tracks here in ca have taken that advise. Main Tracks like fox, perris, and milestone, have gotten easier and more options to...
In my opinion the tracks here in ca have taken that advise. Main Tracks like fox, perris, and milestone, have gotten easier and more options to double stuff instead of having to triple. Cahuilla has always been pretty easy .

yz133rider wrote:
Coastline your opinion of easy is vastly different than an actual begginner. Also tracks keep going more and more towards outdoor supercross tracks and less to...
Coastline your opinion of easy is vastly different than an actual begginner.


Also tracks keep going more and more towards outdoor supercross tracks and less to real outdoor moto.

Mammoth raceway is outdoor moto.turn jump turn jump jump jump jump turn etc is outdoor sx.
Yes. You build a track for the masses, not the few.
My favorite track, LTM in Casey IL is a good example of that.
It was originally built by Mark (bomber) Barnett. It's had a few mods over the years, but overall it's the same layout he designed.

I'm 61 and pretty quick for my age. lol
I can do everything on his track, just not as fast as the young guys. There's nothing sketchy and it works for pretty much all the riders.
And it shows. He regularly gets 400 plus riders at his races and his practice days get big turnouts too.

Most practice days he splits the sessions. But on the rare occasion he doesn't have a big turnout he won't. I just hope and pray he doesn't end up with a situation like Club MX.

At our track we're just not willing to roll the dice.
2

Post a reply to: Club MX being sued, could affect other tracks?