2020 450 Shootouts

holyroller1
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holyroller1 8/16/2019 2:44pm
8/16/2019 2:44pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Wow, 10 pager....ML must be doing something right. I'm glad the blue pig finally won something, it desperately needed that. Here's my 450 shootout winner, with...
Wow, 10 pager....ML must be doing something right. I'm glad the blue pig finally won something, it desperately needed that.

Here's my 450 shootout winner, with bold new graphics and all. The yellow slug:



Those yellow bikes look so awesome!! Congrats on the bike I am sure you chose well.

I ride a 2019 big blue pig right now which hauls my fat ass around great. Considering the Suzuki for my son if he keeps progressing. Yeah right, it's "for my son" ha!!
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kiwifan
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kiwifan 8/17/2019 10:29pm
8/17/2019 10:29pm
There is always a bike that finishes last (duh), so naturally it will be the one that has either had less changes or is really lacking in one or two areas. Does that means its a bad bike? No, but equally it doesnt mean it is a great one either.

For those who want to spend their hard earned money they saved (because they can get a spanking good deal on them) to hop up their Suzuki to be competitive with the others... then fine, their money, their choice. Same as it is others choice to spend a little more and get a more competitive bike from the showroom floor.

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rpm.15
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rpm.15 8/18/2019 11:56am
8/18/2019 11:56am
New to this Site. Enjoyed the ML 512 Shootout on Youtube. Liked the format doing it his way. Maybe ML can recommend
Best new 450 for Vets.(50+) Current ride 19 450R WE. Holy crap bike is fast. I gotta ride it in map 2 to hold on. Intermediate level guy. ML is a refreshing breeze compared to the old guard. Articulate easy to understand delivery. ML nice work keep it up!
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Matt Fisher
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Matt Fisher 8/21/2019 9:43pm
8/21/2019 9:43pm
aeffertz wrote:
ICYMI:

https://youtu.be/hLIDxxxjZno
ML512 wrote:
Careful, Paul’s gonna think you’re part of my clique or my 18th account.
You and Jeff Walker both mention needing to top off the CRF's coolant and are looking for a solution. If it's not overheating, just add an overflow bottle. As it cools off the coolant will automatically be drawn back into the radiator. Maybe the CRF450L one will fit?
racer187x
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racer187x 8/21/2019 10:44pm
8/21/2019 10:44pm
Mr. Info wrote:
Let’s leave it here. I didn’t lie, no miss information. Only agenda is telling the truth by anybody to the public is a reflection on their...
Let’s leave it here. I didn’t lie, no miss information. Only agenda is telling the truth by anybody to the public is a reflection on their work and credibility that’s it. If you tell the truth from the beginning you don’t need to go back and change your story. I only saw the introduction but knew the behind the scenes because of it.
I don’t buy my bike because of any magazine or pod test. I ride each one first because I ask friends to ride their bike. Last post on this but knowing the Industry there will be others for other reasons. Just be honest and tell the truth.
Oh just so you know I am not an employee of Glen Helen but I do work for them from time to time. I act as current President of the SoCal OTMX Club and have a regular job outside the industry and have called out others for misunderstandings. Is it that hard to just tell the truth. That’s all everyone asks I think. No one can just lie or misrepresent it’s not fair to anyone.
Have a great week. And God Bless you all.
"If you tell the truth from the beginning..."

Is 1:57 quick enough?


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Ray_MXS
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Ray_MXS 8/22/2019 12:29am
8/22/2019 12:29am
They only way you´d piss the "magazines" off is just plain and simply providing a superior and better version of the same thing. These are the best, and most relatable shootouts in the business atm.

The format is also fantastic. A quick and easy to understand shootout video for the vast majority, and then in depth analysis videos on each bikes for those interested in that. Its the perfect balance.

You´re also a great presenter/host. Easy to listen to, doesnt drag sentences out and has a way of making what you say sound sincere and logical, not like you´re reading a script or a telepromter.

I am however, incredibly disappointed about the hair and the beard... I mean... How can I ever forgive...
ML512
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ML512 8/23/2019 4:11pm
8/23/2019 4:11pm
fullfloater wrote:
When are we breaking down the KTM?
Recording tonight, publish tomorrow
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slipdog
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slipdog 8/23/2019 7:17pm
8/23/2019 7:17pm
It's a KTM, when are they not breaking down... Duh!
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ML512
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ML512 9/8/2019 3:48pm
9/8/2019 3:48pm Edited Date/Time 9/8/2019 3:51pm
Apparently all of us dozen social media influencers are making Dirt Bike Mag go a little quicker according to this...

The amount of trash talk I heard this week regarding this was great. Laughing



In all seriousness though, two more have posted this week with SwapMoto Live's and Vital's own.

Vital's: https://www.vitalmx.com/videos/features/2020-450-Shootout-Vital-MX,1831…

Swap's: https://www.swapmotolive.com/track-tested-2020-sml-450-mx-shootout/

As I say in all my Shootouts, if you're really interested in a new bike this year check out all the reviews and Shootouts, use that knowledge to get the best machine for you!

Keefer has been laying down a ton of info by going deep on setup tips for his tests so far too!
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zlowery
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zlowery 9/8/2019 7:20pm
9/8/2019 7:20pm
Great job with the shootout. I always enjoy shootouts because i really like the tech end of the sport. I feel like every bike was fairly evaluated fairly on their stock trim.

But who keeps these bikes in stock trim? Particularly with suspension. I ride with a big group of friends and most get bikes every year. So ride most all bikes. And i really do see first hand what every magazine/site is saying about these. Alot of whats mentioned in the video and other shootouts is pertaining to suspension balance that comes spring rate/air pressure. I laugh at every bike i get on stock because they are so under-sprung and dont have valving to handle 90% of Americans that buy a 450. To me, correct suspension can even make the motor power feel different! In my opinion Yamaha won this because they seemed to have nailed settings that anyone who buys a bike for 10k should get fixed anyway.

I probably sound like an ass, but testing a bike that is out of the box sprung for a 150lb rider with anyone who is 10lbs off from 150lbs voids any observations other than engine. Clicker settings don't make up for correct valving and spring rates.

When i got my 2019 honda 450, i hit the same marks i do with every bike. 2 trips to the track bone stock. 2 more after i throw correct springs for my weight. Then i get pistons and valving replaced in forks and shock. Each step is a huuuge difference. Really makes me appreciate why we are making the modifications to the bike.

I just feel like all these bikes are so damn good and capable - when setup with springs and valving. The fastest one in my group of friends rides those 6th place RMZ450/250s. He more than pays the bikes off with suzuki contingency yearly. He puts it #1.
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Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 9/9/2019 4:26am
9/9/2019 4:26am
zlowery wrote:
Great job with the shootout. I always enjoy shootouts because i really like the tech end of the sport. I feel like every bike was fairly...
Great job with the shootout. I always enjoy shootouts because i really like the tech end of the sport. I feel like every bike was fairly evaluated fairly on their stock trim.

But who keeps these bikes in stock trim? Particularly with suspension. I ride with a big group of friends and most get bikes every year. So ride most all bikes. And i really do see first hand what every magazine/site is saying about these. Alot of whats mentioned in the video and other shootouts is pertaining to suspension balance that comes spring rate/air pressure. I laugh at every bike i get on stock because they are so under-sprung and dont have valving to handle 90% of Americans that buy a 450. To me, correct suspension can even make the motor power feel different! In my opinion Yamaha won this because they seemed to have nailed settings that anyone who buys a bike for 10k should get fixed anyway.

I probably sound like an ass, but testing a bike that is out of the box sprung for a 150lb rider with anyone who is 10lbs off from 150lbs voids any observations other than engine. Clicker settings don't make up for correct valving and spring rates.

When i got my 2019 honda 450, i hit the same marks i do with every bike. 2 trips to the track bone stock. 2 more after i throw correct springs for my weight. Then i get pistons and valving replaced in forks and shock. Each step is a huuuge difference. Really makes me appreciate why we are making the modifications to the bike.

I just feel like all these bikes are so damn good and capable - when setup with springs and valving. The fastest one in my group of friends rides those 6th place RMZ450/250s. He more than pays the bikes off with suzuki contingency yearly. He puts it #1.
I agree with you on almost all of off your points. There's not a bad bike in the bunch.
But you're wrong about bikes being set up for 150 lbs. Actually they're set up for about 165 to 180.

I weigh 150, and every time I get a new bike I have the suspension done by FC. The springs are way too stiff, even on a 250. I can't get the sag even close with stock springs and the bikes beat me to death. When I bought my new Kawi 450 a couple of months ago I sent my suspension off thru my local dealer before it was even put together.

Getting suspension done is the best money a rider can spend imo.
zlowery
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zlowery 9/9/2019 4:56am
9/9/2019 4:56am
zlowery wrote:
Great job with the shootout. I always enjoy shootouts because i really like the tech end of the sport. I feel like every bike was fairly...
Great job with the shootout. I always enjoy shootouts because i really like the tech end of the sport. I feel like every bike was fairly evaluated fairly on their stock trim.

But who keeps these bikes in stock trim? Particularly with suspension. I ride with a big group of friends and most get bikes every year. So ride most all bikes. And i really do see first hand what every magazine/site is saying about these. Alot of whats mentioned in the video and other shootouts is pertaining to suspension balance that comes spring rate/air pressure. I laugh at every bike i get on stock because they are so under-sprung and dont have valving to handle 90% of Americans that buy a 450. To me, correct suspension can even make the motor power feel different! In my opinion Yamaha won this because they seemed to have nailed settings that anyone who buys a bike for 10k should get fixed anyway.

I probably sound like an ass, but testing a bike that is out of the box sprung for a 150lb rider with anyone who is 10lbs off from 150lbs voids any observations other than engine. Clicker settings don't make up for correct valving and spring rates.

When i got my 2019 honda 450, i hit the same marks i do with every bike. 2 trips to the track bone stock. 2 more after i throw correct springs for my weight. Then i get pistons and valving replaced in forks and shock. Each step is a huuuge difference. Really makes me appreciate why we are making the modifications to the bike.

I just feel like all these bikes are so damn good and capable - when setup with springs and valving. The fastest one in my group of friends rides those 6th place RMZ450/250s. He more than pays the bikes off with suzuki contingency yearly. He puts it #1.
Indy mxer wrote:
I agree with you on almost all of off your points. There's not a bad bike in the bunch. But you're wrong about bikes being set...
I agree with you on almost all of off your points. There's not a bad bike in the bunch.
But you're wrong about bikes being set up for 150 lbs. Actually they're set up for about 165 to 180.

I weigh 150, and every time I get a new bike I have the suspension done by FC. The springs are way too stiff, even on a 250. I can't get the sag even close with stock springs and the bikes beat me to death. When I bought my new Kawi 450 a couple of months ago I sent my suspension off thru my local dealer before it was even put together.

Getting suspension done is the best money a rider can spend imo.
Yea, I kinda just threw 150 out there not knowing for sure. Feels like that's where all the Japanese bikes were years ago.

And i do ride with vets, so maybe my average rider weight is slightly skewed. But we are buying new bikes every year or two.
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Lasse
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Lasse 9/9/2019 5:15am
9/9/2019 5:15am
Being fast isn't neccesarily a good thing in this regard.
Dirty Points 9/9/2019 8:34am
9/9/2019 8:34am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2019 8:45am
Lasse wrote:
Being fast isn't neccesarily a good thing in this regard.
Maybe not, but the two shootouts that have followed Lindsay's thus far have produced fairly similar evaluations of all the bikes.
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Lasse 9/9/2019 8:36am
9/9/2019 8:36am
Dirty Points wrote:
Maybe not, but the two shootouts that have followed Lindsay's thus far have produced fairly similar evaluations of all the bikes.
Producing the same results isn't a bad thing either. As long as its derived from good testing, all is good.

Have the tester been influenced by what other people think? Maybe? I've no clue when the tests were done in relation to the other.
Lastander
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Lastander 9/9/2019 8:39am
9/9/2019 8:39am
aeffertz wrote:
ICYMI:

https://youtu.be/hLIDxxxjZno
ML512 wrote:
Careful, Paul’s gonna think you’re part of my clique or my 18th account.
Matt Fisher wrote:
You and Jeff Walker both mention needing to top off the CRF's coolant and are looking for a solution. If it's not overheating, just add an...
You and Jeff Walker both mention needing to top off the CRF's coolant and are looking for a solution. If it's not overheating, just add an overflow bottle. As it cools off the coolant will automatically be drawn back into the radiator. Maybe the CRF450L one will fit?
I bought a 1.5 coolant cap i think and since then my bike hasnt got rid of any water
Moto520
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Moto520 9/9/2019 9:42am
9/9/2019 9:42am
Lastander wrote:
I bought a 1.5 coolant cap i think and since then my bike hasnt got rid of any water
My concern with this is the coolant cap should do what it does to prevent damage to the coolant system. If the coolant overheats through the cap....it did the job. If it is overheating and has nowhere to go....does it strain the coolant system?
thorns
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thorns 9/9/2019 12:39pm
9/9/2019 12:39pm
Not directly aimed at your shootout ML, but just one thing I notice and would love some feedback on.

A lot of 450 shootouts when it comes to engines rave about how much top end a 450 has compared to others which sign off early.

The thing that I dont quite get, is when you watch racing, everyone bags on the likes of Barcia as he revs the piss out of the bikes, banging them off the redline, and generally everyone always mentions that the way to ride a 450 fast is to lug it in the lower RPM's, short shifting etc as this also helps the suspension works better. So with that in mind, why are 450s that have motors that dont rev to the moon making almost shunned in shootouts?
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ML512
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ML512 9/9/2019 1:15pm
9/9/2019 1:15pm
thorns wrote:
Not directly aimed at your shootout ML, but just one thing I notice and would love some feedback on. A lot of 450 shootouts when it...
Not directly aimed at your shootout ML, but just one thing I notice and would love some feedback on.

A lot of 450 shootouts when it comes to engines rave about how much top end a 450 has compared to others which sign off early.

The thing that I dont quite get, is when you watch racing, everyone bags on the likes of Barcia as he revs the piss out of the bikes, banging them off the redline, and generally everyone always mentions that the way to ride a 450 fast is to lug it in the lower RPM's, short shifting etc as this also helps the suspension works better. So with that in mind, why are 450s that have motors that dont rev to the moon making almost shunned in shootouts?
A rounded motor character will suit a larger range of riders and styles overall so they will typically do better in a Shootout. And the Yamaha isn’t exactly a top end screamer but came away with the win for the three published so far.
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kiwifan
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kiwifan 9/9/2019 1:41pm
9/9/2019 1:41pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2019 8:16pm
Lastander wrote:
I bought a 1.5 coolant cap i think and since then my bike hasnt got rid of any water
Moto520 wrote:
My concern with this is the coolant cap should do what it does to prevent damage to the coolant system. If the coolant overheats through the...
My concern with this is the coolant cap should do what it does to prevent damage to the coolant system. If the coolant overheats through the cap....it did the job. If it is overheating and has nowhere to go....does it strain the coolant system?
Sure a higher pressure cap will put a certain amount of strain on the gaskets, radiator itself, etc but the minimal increase talked about here should not overly strain it and it prevents overheating.

If still overheating (or you ride very slow trails preventing airflow) then you could use the various aftermarket fans to help keep the coolant at a lower temp.

Using high grade coolant is also a must. I use the Honda HP coolant Honda coolant
ML512
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ML512 9/9/2019 5:47pm
9/9/2019 5:47pm
Hey my name got removed from the title of this thread Laughing
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holyroller1
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holyroller1 9/9/2019 5:51pm
9/9/2019 5:51pm
ML512 wrote:
Hey my name got removed from the title of this thread Laughing
Well I started this thread and I didn't do it.

Just sayin....
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holyroller1
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holyroller1 9/9/2019 5:53pm
9/9/2019 5:53pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2019 5:56pm
ML512 wrote:
Hey my name got removed from the title of this thread Laughing
Here is my original title:

"2020 450 Shootout | by Michael Lindsay:"

WTH is this all about???
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gsxr6
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gsxr6 9/9/2019 5:57pm
9/9/2019 5:57pm
Lastander wrote:
I bought a 1.5 coolant cap i think and since then my bike hasnt got rid of any water
Moto520 wrote:
My concern with this is the coolant cap should do what it does to prevent damage to the coolant system. If the coolant overheats through the...
My concern with this is the coolant cap should do what it does to prevent damage to the coolant system. If the coolant overheats through the cap....it did the job. If it is overheating and has nowhere to go....does it strain the coolant system?
Raising the pressure raises the boiling point

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