Where is the American Spirit?

11 hours ago Edited Date/Time 11 hours ago
Tumic wrote:
Tomac has not always stepped up when needed. Who do you think Mitch was talking about this week in a Matthes show when he said that...

Tomac has not always stepped up when needed. Who do you think Mitch was talking about this week in a Matthes show when he said that Kawasaki not supporting MXdN was to save their riders face just like Yamaha is doing for Deegan now.


Eli did not want to go for a couple of years and then at RedBud in 2018? He went again because it was on home soil…

It’s been well known for awhile now that Kawasaki was the reason he didn’t participate in the MXoN some of those years, they prevented him and AC from going in 2019. Red Bud was an exception because it was in the USA. Tomac has gone on every team he’s raced for up to KTM and according to Ian Harrison wasn’t entirely against going this year either. Not sure why some insist on ignoring the obvious.


Also is there a reason why it’s really only American riders that get shit for participating or not? Jett and Hunter opted out this year and not only did no one complain, most supported the decision. Yes you can say that they always represent while the US has a bigger pool to choose from to rotate different guys in but the same work and effort that the Lawrence’s are looking to avoid this year applies to the Americans as well. Obviously with Jett’s injury he wouldn’t have gone either way but their decision was made well before Jett decided to get another surgery.

I’m not even American and I can see the obvious bias.

5
11 hours ago
Moto Nomad wrote:
So, 45-year mx fan and racer here. In my humble opinion, the U.S. has lost the plot in terms of its ability to compete on the...

So, 45-year mx fan and racer here. In my humble opinion, the U.S. has lost the plot in terms of its ability to compete on the world stage.

RJ, Wardy, O Show, Emig, MC, even Lechien and many others would not come back from a 5th place at the MXON with anything less than an attitude of "what needs to change, now?" 

We lost to Latvia.

Even my favorite MX journalists like JT, Weege and Matthes seem okay with this. What happened? BTW, the GP crowd is coming here and taking all the glory.

The older racers grew up on gnarly tracks and were forced to adapt and excel in adversarial conditions. For example, RJ grew up at Carlsbad and could probably handle a shit Euro track with no sleep, bad food, or whatever. There is a story where RJ had to wake up Ward in the middle of the night before the race because Wardy was concussed. 

I think there are a bunch of softie BS excuses coming from the American moto contingent right now.

Not a single American rider won a national title this year, what makes you think we could win? 

 Even if Deegs goes instead of juju, we still don’t win. 

 They are better outdoor riders than we are, truth hurts. 

2
1
early
Posts
10113
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH, USA
10 hours ago

I'm not going to fault this years team for a lack of spirit, they had a tough job, sacked up and tried their best.

I don't have a problem with foreigners coming here and dominating the American series, who wouldn't dream of racing supercross here. Our motocross series is great too, maybe a step below MXGP but it's no joke. 

The lack of dominant Americans riders in the American series is concerning. It's not for lack of resources, training facilities, home schooling, amateur team contracts. The foreigners that do come here and dominate don't have much of a more aggressive attitude at least while the helmets off, if anything they are generally more laid back, maybe this attitude allows them to be more honest with themselves, work on their weaknesses and keep a cool head under the helmet during the race.

If we want to talk about American culture being a problem, the problem with American 2 wheel culture is that it's still dominated by Harley riders. The problem with American off-road culture is that atvs and utvs comprise such a big part of it. Europe has a more pure motorcycling culture that is more race focused on and off road, their success over the US in every motorcycle racing discipline reflects this. 

 

1
chasetwo79
Posts
1724
Joined
12/1/2019
Location
San Francisco, CA, USA
9 hours ago

Not another MXoN thread. It's about time to log out of vital until A1. It's going to be a long off season 

6

The Shop

9 hours ago
And DeCoster's story is the most American thing I can think of...he's an American hero for me and my crew.  His son was a U.S. Marine...

And DeCoster's story is the most American thing I can think of...he's an American hero for me and my crew.  His son was a U.S. Marine, and the family embodies the true idea of the American melting pot.....DeCoster is "The Man", and it did my heart good to see the Coenen bros show so much respect and understanding of history when they came over this summer.

Rock on....

Side note- Did you know that DeCoster’s son just married Willie Surratt’s daughter (Ryan Surratt’s sister) ? Willie bleeds RED  🩸 

3
2
SLAPAHO
Posts
1990
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Newport Beach, CA, USA
Fantasy
9 hours ago

If you didn’t see any American spirit last weekend, you must have watched the wrong race.

 

3
1
Moto Nomad
Posts
1245
Joined
1/19/2021
Location
Grass Valley, CA, USA
9 hours ago

My post was not aimed at diminishing the riders that went and tried to win. I knew Cooper when he was a kid and I am a super-fan. It's more just the general malaise and lack of passion among the U.S. contingent. The U.S. fans rode on U.S. dominance for so long- then when it stops we have a long list of excuses. 

Also, I suppose the extreme length of the current U.S. SMX season has something to do with it. But I can't help but to think back to the days, even in the 90s, when there was no way this would happen. If the U.S. lost, it was a big deal. Now, nobody cares. Oh well.

3
9 hours ago
3strokemx wrote:
It's impossible to develop domestic talent when the paid rides for our national series are going to people from other countries.Combined with our amateur races not...

It's impossible to develop domestic talent when the paid rides for our national series are going to people from other countries.

Combined with our amateur races not being up to par (too short).

There's no pathway for good riders to develop.  

Most of the time you need to either be an immediate sensation or the 10+ year GP veteran will get the support.

Bullshit on every point.

Also lately, every "euro" that has arrived in the USA has then had to develope into the Star they have become.

1
9 hours ago

A champion is a human, one out of a million, not the country they were born in.

The reason that there are so many great riders from the USA is, population, and the great MX opportunities available.

Neither situation garantees a Champion.

Tumic
Posts
2909
Joined
11/27/2012
Location
Sundsvall, SE
8 hours ago
Tumic wrote:
Tomac has not always stepped up when needed. Who do you think Mitch was talking about this week in a Matthes show when he said that...

Tomac has not always stepped up when needed. Who do you think Mitch was talking about this week in a Matthes show when he said that Kawasaki not supporting MXdN was to save their riders face just like Yamaha is doing for Deegan now.


Eli did not want to go for a couple of years and then at RedBud in 2018? He went again because it was on home soil…

It’s been well known for awhile now that Kawasaki was the reason he didn’t participate in the MXoN some of those years, they prevented him and...

It’s been well known for awhile now that Kawasaki was the reason he didn’t participate in the MXoN some of those years, they prevented him and AC from going in 2019. Red Bud was an exception because it was in the USA. Tomac has gone on every team he’s raced for up to KTM and according to Ian Harrison wasn’t entirely against going this year either. Not sure why some insist on ignoring the obvious.


Also is there a reason why it’s really only American riders that get shit for participating or not? Jett and Hunter opted out this year and not only did no one complain, most supported the decision. Yes you can say that they always represent while the US has a bigger pool to choose from to rotate different guys in but the same work and effort that the Lawrence’s are looking to avoid this year applies to the Americans as well. Obviously with Jett’s injury he wouldn’t have gone either way but their decision was made well before Jett decided to get another surgery.

I’m not even American and I can see the obvious bias.

Because it was reported in the same way as the media is reporting about Yamaha this time.

Some people choose to take that as the truth while others can see past it, and now 10 years later people with Kawasaki connections are starting to come forward about it.

Just like Yamaha would have sent Deegan if he wanted to race, so would Kawasaki if Eli wanted to.

2
Pop Shmoke
Posts
2233
Joined
6/17/2020
Location
Boston, MA, USA
8 hours ago Edited Date/Time 8 hours ago
30minmotos wrote:
This country has taught its people to hate America, America is racist, sexist, evil etcWe’ve talk black to hate white, woman to hate man, old to...

This country has taught its people to hate America, America is racist, sexist, evil etc

We’ve talk black to hate white, woman to hate man, old to hate young and more and vice versa.


And then surprised when young men don’t have endless national pride.


We’ve taught them their culture sucks and foreign cultures are pure and their own is a virus etc etc.

 

Pop Shmoke wrote:
Most of the American riders do have a lot of American pride, Webb, Levi, Beaumer who stepped up Eli always stepped up when he was needed...

Most of the American riders do have a lot of American pride, Webb, Levi, Beaumer who stepped up Eli always stepped up when he was needed. 1 guy refusing to go even tho they called his bluff and said theyd pay him, plus he could have made 100x back in merch and youtube or whatever else. Our top rider is a fraud right now as far as pretending to be the most patriotic person ever, then never even pretending to try to back that up and that affects how good of a team we could send. Tomac had a freak injury this year that led to his early retirement before sx but if eli, deegz, and kitchen went we 100% could have won. The problem is 1 guy. 

Deegz doesn't have to go if he doesn't want to. Thats fine. But knock it off with the Captain America act. "Gotta rep America up here!"...

Deegz doesn't have to go if he doesn't want to. Thats fine. But knock it off with the Captain America act. "Gotta rep America up here!" I dont give a shit if it's an all foreigner podium at a National. Or foreigner as a series champ. I want to see amazing riders in the Nationals and SX, who cares where they're from? It only matters at the MXdN and you bitch out every time so stop being fake

Thats my point, he should have just came out 5 years ago and said I dont do the mxon, sorry, I’m worried about sx. Some ppl would have been annoyed but he would have just been up front and honest and theres nothing you can really say when someone is honest. Instead he pretends every year like hes def going this year waving the flag all in everyones face, whipping up usa vs everyone sentiment right up until like 5 days before and then the excuses come out and he bails. Why didnt he say the money thing 5 years ago? Cuz its not actually about the money, hes a multi, multi, multi millionaire. Plus they got the 25k he asked for this year anyways and then he said 100k and they said ok and he was like…. umm…. no. He doesnt want to go and thats ok, but just come out and say it vs the whole rigamarole every. Single. Fn. Year. 

At least from this point fwd can we just agree hes not going and move on or is he going to pull the same shit again next time its in the us? Will it magically not be about the money anymore then? Lets just move on from deegs and mxon and not even ask from this point fwd, unless you enjoy getting disappointed by the same thing every year.

2
2
Paul333
Posts
2380
Joined
2/15/2012
Location
Virginia Beach, VA, USA
7 hours ago
UpTiTe wrote:
Not a single American rider won a national title this year, what makes you think we could win?  Even if Deegs goes instead of juju, we still...

Not a single American rider won a national title this year, what makes you think we could win? 

 Even if Deegs goes instead of juju, we still don’t win. 

 They are better outdoor riders than we are, truth hurts. 

LOL, we just won two years ago….

2
3strokemx
Posts
3201
Joined
9/2/2010
Location
USA
7 hours ago
3strokemx wrote:
It's impossible to develop domestic talent when the paid rides for our national series are going to people from other countries.Combined with our amateur races not...

It's impossible to develop domestic talent when the paid rides for our national series are going to people from other countries.

Combined with our amateur races not being up to par (too short).

There's no pathway for good riders to develop.  

Most of the time you need to either be an immediate sensation or the 10+ year GP veteran will get the support.

Bullshit on every point.

Also lately, every "euro" that has arrived in the USA has then had to develope into the Star they have become.

Oh boy, let's take this point by point:

Is support helpful to rider development?

1
byke
Posts
3178
Joined
8/12/2015
Location
Auburn, CA, USA
7 hours ago

Coop and Deegs represent the old and new American spirits perfectly. The modern American spirit is to be boisterously selfish, whereas the old American spirit is more about a humble national pride. They're both welcome to do their thing and we're welcome to feel however we feel about it. However, I wish the US and EU series would align their schedules such that the last round of both is the MXON, then there would be full funding and full motivation and we'd get a real showdown. 

2
Bonanza69
Posts
1115
Joined
4/4/2016
Location
LU
7 hours ago
UpTiTe wrote:
Not a single American rider won a national title this year, what makes you think we could win?  Even if Deegs goes instead of juju, we still...

Not a single American rider won a national title this year, what makes you think we could win? 

 Even if Deegs goes instead of juju, we still don’t win. 

 They are better outdoor riders than we are, truth hurts. 

Paul333 wrote:

LOL, we just won two years ago….

On home soil,well done buddy.Try to win next year in Assen,but you will once again send your c-team,the prima donnas will create some AI shit videos!

5
Paul333
Posts
2380
Joined
2/15/2012
Location
Virginia Beach, VA, USA
7 hours ago Edited Date/Time 7 hours ago
UpTiTe wrote:
Not a single American rider won a national title this year, what makes you think we could win?  Even if Deegs goes instead of juju, we still...

Not a single American rider won a national title this year, what makes you think we could win? 

 Even if Deegs goes instead of juju, we still don’t win. 

 They are better outdoor riders than we are, truth hurts. 

Paul333 wrote:

LOL, we just won two years ago….

Bonanza69 wrote:
On home soil,well done buddy.Try to win next year in Assen,but you will once again send your c-team,the prima donnas will create some AI shit videos!

On home soil,well done buddy.Try to win next year in Assen,but you will once again send your c-team,the prima donnas will create some AI shit videos!

LOL

Maybe, maybe not

Helps the Euros they ride man made Assen every season, It’s a sand track which isn’t in the Americans favor, GP rider contracts expire after the MXON, even when a country like Australia wins the Euros act like they won, etc. 

FYI: We only have one dipshit Tik-Tok influencer Prima-Donna but that’s certainly enough. 

1
2
jemcee
Posts
12872
Joined
8/11/2008
Location
AU
5 hours ago
byke wrote:
Coop and Deegs represent the old and new American spirits perfectly. The modern American spirit is to be boisterously selfish, whereas the old American spirit is...

Coop and Deegs represent the old and new American spirits perfectly. The modern American spirit is to be boisterously selfish, whereas the old American spirit is more about a humble national pride. They're both welcome to do their thing and we're welcome to feel however we feel about it. However, I wish the US and EU series would align their schedules such that the last round of both is the MXON, then there would be full funding and full motivation and we'd get a real showdown. 

I was gonna start a thread about my idea but this will do..

The ONLY way I MIGHT be cool with des Nations going away is if the 'SMX' rounds were top ten of each series (each class) racing on pop up SMX style tracks.. Could have two rounds each or alternate each year who gets the 2 to the 1..

I heard that Matthes said the Euros do pop up tracks better and the Euros could've easily handled that last round of SMX

4
Spoonguy
Posts
3722
Joined
2/28/2022
Location
Mc Kean, PA, USA
5 hours ago
Spoonguy wrote:
The MXoN is a very good example of American riders Prima Donna behavior and Euros just getting on with it. Men vs. boys. Numerous riders from...

The MXoN is a very good example of American riders Prima Donna behavior and Euros just getting on with it. Men vs. boys. Numerous riders from American can't go for any number of reasons, 25-year-old Marchbanks not having a passport was unbelievable - maybe he needs mentorship - but most, not all, Euro riders just race it. No matter what, stock bikes , borrowed bikes, broken bones, they race. No wonder we get our asses kicked on our own soil, so many riders in this country are the star of their own movie, all flash and no substance. Hayden is a perfect example, I am not a fan nor hater, and he is amazing to watch ride, talent in spades. But him passing up the opportunity to chase Herlings up and down those hills in Ernee displays the shallowness of his career decisions and perhaps cowardice. To be truly great in any competition, sport, business, whatever, you need to confront all competitors even on their terms. American riders do not, perhaps their parents, wives, man friends, favorite dog have a phobia of flying so they can't come.

Radical wrote:
Marchbanks didn't go because Kawi said they couldn't prep a 450 for MxGP rules and get it there in time.  Where did you hear anything about...

Marchbanks didn't go because Kawi said they couldn't prep a 450 for MxGP rules and get it there in time.  Where did you hear anything about a passport?

Second time Marchbanks was asked after Hymas was injured....

1
1
jemcee
Posts
12872
Joined
8/11/2008
Location
AU
5 hours ago

I think the 'spirit' is there but the problem I feel is the success the US have had in the past and the pressure to win..

Just hearing Kitchen and Beaumer's interviews after the race show what the racer feels if he goes 'just to represent' and not just to win..

Move the goalposts a bit and stop the little bit of victim mentality that seems to be bubbling along under the suface of the powers that be haha..

  

1
1
3strokemx
Posts
3201
Joined
9/2/2010
Location
USA
5 hours ago

Any of you patriots know how the US finished at Trials des Nations?  No Deegan on that team either

4
jettlover
Posts
44
Joined
7/25/2025
Location
Alphie, GA, USA
5 hours ago

Didn't the US win their first MXdN in 1981, when they sent their 'B' team?

Maybe the US talent isn't as deep now.

Of course not. It’s too expensive to “train” here. Do you think the Stewart’s could have made it in today’s scene?

3
Pop Shmoke
Posts
2233
Joined
6/17/2020
Location
Boston, MA, USA
5 hours ago Edited Date/Time 5 hours ago

This is how, commit or decline early. Deegz should already be saying hes out for assen next year. 

 

3
5 hours ago
OldTech wrote:
The spirit has been beat down by social media and politics (which we can't talk about here), and the advantage of works bikes we used to...

The spirit has been beat down by social media and politics (which we can't talk about here), and the advantage of works bikes we used to have. Add in the issues there has always been like strange tracks and the gasoline.

"the advantage of works bikes we used to have"

1986 the production rule came into effect, so the US sent a team on production based bikes and finished 1-2 in every moto, beating world champions on works bikes, are you talking about that advantage?

1
Nairb#70
Posts
4301
Joined
2/25/2020
Location
Ivoryton, CT, USA
5 hours ago

What at one time made us better and sharpened us has come full circle to bite us in the ass.

2
1
-MAVERICK-
Posts
68149
Joined
3/26/2015
Location
Ontario, CA
4 hours ago
Pop Shmoke wrote:

This is how, commit or decline early. Deegz should already be saying hes out for assen next year. 

 

Commit?

The same guy also said:

1000012587.png?VersionId=WR0
1
Park Boys
Posts
3872
Joined
3/23/2012
Location
USA
3 hours ago

Even a B team should be beating Latvia.

France should have too, shit happens. Lativa is sitting pretty good right now. You know that. 

1
3 hours ago
ksithumper wrote:

Even Mitch is whining now, apparently it's all because the US can't use race fuel.

BS. Just need more fight in your dogs.

 

Full works bikes with a year of testing against a stock production bike with hopefully a week of testing is what he said . In case listening wasn't your super power.

2
3
Brent
Posts
5904
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Temecula, CA, USA
2 hours ago
Moto Nomad wrote:
So, 45-year mx fan and racer here. In my humble opinion, the U.S. has lost the plot in terms of its ability to compete on the...

So, 45-year mx fan and racer here. In my humble opinion, the U.S. has lost the plot in terms of its ability to compete on the world stage.

RJ, Wardy, O Show, Emig, MC, even Lechien and many others would not come back from a 5th place at the MXON with anything less than an attitude of "what needs to change, now?" 

We lost to Latvia.

Even my favorite MX journalists like JT, Weege and Matthes seem okay with this. What happened? BTW, the GP crowd is coming here and taking all the glory.

The older racers grew up on gnarly tracks and were forced to adapt and excel in adversarial conditions. For example, RJ grew up at Carlsbad and could probably handle a shit Euro track with no sleep, bad food, or whatever. There is a story where RJ had to wake up Ward in the middle of the night before the race because Wardy was concussed. 

I think there are a bunch of softie BS excuses coming from the American moto contingent right now.

Bike sales have dropped dramatically from back in the 80s to now, so Manufacturers don't have the money they used to.

Just riding a dirt bike nowadays is an expensive hobby.

Moto tracks started disappearing in America for several reasons.    Kids found video games as opposed to outdoor activities.

In Europe, the moto culture is still thriving with tons of kids on 65's 85's and 125 at any practice day you go to because they prioritize safer tracks and don't worry about Supercross or raising their kid to be a professional racer, they just enjoy riding.

2
Park Boys
Posts
3872
Joined
3/23/2012
Location
USA
2 hours ago
OldTech wrote:
The spirit has been beat down by social media and politics (which we can't talk about here), and the advantage of works bikes we used to...

The spirit has been beat down by social media and politics (which we can't talk about here), and the advantage of works bikes we used to have. Add in the issues there has always been like strange tracks and the gasoline.

"the advantage of works bikes we used to have"1986 the production rule came into effect, so the US sent a team on production based bikes...

"the advantage of works bikes we used to have"

1986 the production rule came into effect, so the US sent a team on production based bikes and finished 1-2 in every moto, beating world champions on works bikes, are you talking about that advantage?

Honda knew the rule was coming and made alot of updates for 1986. A production based 1986 Honda was better than any other bike on the gate other than works Hondas. Also that team had RJ at the peaks of powers and Bailey sick of losing to RJ all year. The weak link by a mile was Jonny O and he was a 3-4th place guy all year against those two and Wardy. Most US teams don’t have the 4th best American being the weak link on a three man team. 

2 hours ago
OldTech wrote:
The spirit has been beat down by social media and politics (which we can't talk about here), and the advantage of works bikes we used to...

The spirit has been beat down by social media and politics (which we can't talk about here), and the advantage of works bikes we used to have. Add in the issues there has always been like strange tracks and the gasoline.

"the advantage of works bikes we used to have"1986 the production rule came into effect, so the US sent a team on production based bikes...

"the advantage of works bikes we used to have"

1986 the production rule came into effect, so the US sent a team on production based bikes and finished 1-2 in every moto, beating world champions on works bikes, are you talking about that advantage?

Park Boys wrote:
Honda knew the rule was coming and made alot of updates for 1986. A production based 1986 Honda was better than any other bike on the...

Honda knew the rule was coming and made alot of updates for 1986. A production based 1986 Honda was better than any other bike on the gate other than works Hondas. Also that team had RJ at the peaks of powers and Bailey sick of losing to RJ all year. The weak link by a mile was Jonny O and he was a 3-4th place guy all year against those two and Wardy. Most US teams don’t have the 4th best American being the weak link on a three man team. 

O'Mara was impressive that day, beating all the works 500s on his 125.

Post a reply to: Where is the American Spirit?

The Latest