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They shut up and didn't talk to anyone and gave conflicting info because of people like you that are going to sue them if the wrong thing gets said or done... They should sue you.
I feel very bad for the Zinggs, what a tragedy. This sport can be very cruel, but the only safe way to participate in this sport is not to participate at all. We all know that. My children ride, I know the risks, I also know the love that the have for it and the anticipation every single year for spring to come so they can get back to it. Life isn’t safe, might as well teach my children to get back up when they hit the ground, on their bike and in their lives. Money won’t bring Aiden back, neither will shutting down Mammoth or bankrupting the organizing body. If I look at it from their shoes, they have a MASSIVE hole they’re trying to fill and it’s understandable but a shame at the same time.
“I'm sure every one of you has jumped something you were scared of, or held the throttle on a little longer, or just pushed it cause it felt "good". I'm sure every one of you has rode their bike in the absence of anyone supervising, and have ridden tracks you later thought were sketchy”
Nothing that you described here is even remotely close to what’s being debated within this discussion.
Aidan didn’t do something overly risky. He didn’t choose to jump something that was inherently going to kill him. He had a benign crash, tried to get off of the course, and there were no flaggers to warn the oncoming riders and they collided with him and killed him.
His protective gear failed to protect him.
What I gather, and what the media is ultimately going to gather from all of this, is that death is just an acceptable risk. We don’t need to call it negligence or poor safety measures, or inadequate safety gear.
It was ultimately Aidan and his parent’s choice to line up on the starting gate that day. His death was just an unfortunate consequence of motocross. Simple as that.
This is the sport of motocross.
None of what you just posted is remotely what you've been arguing.
You claim that he wrecked, there were no flaggers in the area, nobody rendered aid to him, he was hit repeatedly by other racers, and he laid motionless on the track by himself while racers rode past him for multiple laps.
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That is not my claim, pal. That is what was described to Aidan’s parents immediately after the race by the riders who were behind him on the course.
Absolutely no one has claimed anywhere at any time that he laid there on the course unattended to. It’s well understood that there were people quickly attending to him.
I will try to spell it out again as simply as I can: Aidan’s parents did not receive the truth about what happened to their son. They received conflicting information from those who actually saw what happened from those who did not.
His parents deserve the truth. I find it troubling that no one seems to agree with that or seems to think that’s problematic.
Of course we want his parents to have the truth...we just don't agree that a LAWSUIT is going to bring that. You seem to think that this lawsuit is going to be some magical "fix" for the parents, they will get all the answers to their questions, and motocross will become safer and better for it. I'm sorry to tell you, none of that will happen and the only thing they stand to gain is money. I'm not saying they're doing it for the money, but do you seriously believe this lawsuit will bring ANYTHING good?? The parents are suffering and it's completely awful, and maybe they didn't get the answers they were looking for, but a lawsuit will certainly not fix any of that. I could be wrong, but someone reference one recent lawsuit against a track that resulted in anything positive other than monetary gain.
Add condescending and selective memory to unhinged....nice
Your confidence exceeds the evidence. We don't know that it was a benign crash. He could have landed chest first from a high side which caused the cardiac tamponade that killed him. We don't know the extent to which being hit by another rider contributed to his death. It's possible that being hit by another rider caused his death. It's also possible that it the crash itself was sufficient to cause his death. It's also possible that neither were individually sufficient but the combination of them were jointly sufficient to cause his death. Do we know which model of chest protector he was wearing, or whether any chest protector would have made a difference? There are a lot of unknowns. It's wildly irresponsible to be making definitive pronouncements given the state of the available information.
Frankly, this discussion has devolved into absurdity.
It’s still free will…no one put a gun to anyone’s head to race.
Are your assumptions becoming fact in your mind? I think you are straying pretty far from known information here. You are focusing on the points that support your view and ignoring the ones that say otherwise. e.g. the promoter said there was a flagger 18 ft away, but you believe the riders that say something else. (They actually never explicitly said there was no flagger BTW.)
Is this a hill you are willing to die on? I don't think you are winning any popularity contests here with your opinions and drivel. Your posts are starting to make me cringe.
I don't know what happened, but falling and getting ran over isn't out of the norm. It happens all the time in organized professional events. how do you know this wasn't a freak accident? Let me remind you that we don't have a clear answer on this 4 minutes thing. It could be untrue, half true, or maybe there is a legitimate reason. Let's wait for the facts before we start turning assumptions into facts.
Objection. Leading question. Next.
That's from their statement of claim! God your f'n stupid. the lawsuit trial hasn't happened and you haven't seen a statement of defense from any of the defending parties. Your opinion doesn't bother me at all. I think that there is a space for legal action for negligence at a track and I don't believe at this time, that there is. Flaggers are human so they will be compared to a 'reasonable' person, not perfection. The way you are arguing it is plain childish, offensive to promoters and the zingg family.
So if those kids behind him didn't slow down 'enough' (I don't know what enough is here) upon seeing a yellow flag, then they would be liable, right? they didn't follow the promoters rules and caused harm. Maybe that's why the stories differ from promoters? maybe those kids know they were part of it and could have done more to prevent it so now have the story they are telling? See how I can assume stuff too? Stop believing your thoughts as fact.
Going to assume (Just like the man himself) that Mcduff downvoted this post. He is obviously mentally unstable and a disgusting human being. It is now fact.
Wow. You are a piece of shit. I got nothing more for you. Nobody even knows what you're debating in this discussion. Glad you have so much 'respect' for grieving parents you fucking piece of garbage.
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how this plays out.
The Zingg’s are demanding a jury trial which means calling witnesses for testimony.
It seems to me that all of this came about because the industry collectively conspired to minimize and/or distort the truth.
I could be wrong. A jury will ultimately decide.
is it possible that Aidan was hit head-on from someone? I'm just thinking of what would cause such a sudden stop, and how there's a jump right before that hairpin turn.
How far behind him were the riders that hit him?
Still not answering this question, for obvious reasons..... this race used transponders, by the way..... the answer to this question exists......
The ambulance chaser's website post uses the word "immediate" several times when describing their claim about when other riders should be warned.
Also from their post "After the initial crash, Aidan was conscious and attempting to get back to his feet." So.... not on his feet. If the crash was as benign as you suggest, that would only take a few seconds, right? Unless the initial crash did more damage......
Their argument is that other riders weren't "immediately" warned and prevented from hitting him.
I honestly think you've done more to point out the holes in this case and reduce any benefit of the doubt the family might have received by your arguments in this thread. I'm sure the ambulance chasers are thrilled with your work!
And yes I realize I am beating the shit out of a dead horse on these point but I probably won't stop for however many years this drags on.
Pit Row
Candance MacDuff needs to take a breather.
You’re right. The only ones that will really benefit are the Lawyers getting the fees. The others are left to pick up the pieces in a lawsuit like this.
Deer. Where I live in CO they jump out in front of us from sides of the road all the time day and night. Nearly every truck you see around here has a deer deflector on front of it. They race across forest roads (same topography as the Mammoth track) where I ride like they have tunnel vision and nothing else exists around them. Sometimes they make it unscathed and sometimes not. It wouldn't even had to have actually hit Aiden on the bike, but just startled him enough to lose his line or something and crash.
You can have 1,000 flaggers on every foot of the track, lights, sirens, every safety precaution available. It’s a dangerous sport. People are jumping motorcycles with sharp metal parts through the air. People make mistakes and miscalculations which causes accidents and death.
I pray the the Zingg family, but the truth is, as committed they were to the sport, they knew the risks involved more than anyone.
Regarding the death of a child:
”#1 contributor is his parents, sure they signed a release. You are ultimately responsible for your own safety. Case closed! Still sorry to hear of his passing.”
”He as a racer wouldn't want to bring down the sport he loved. Sorry for your loss. We all know the risks”
“We all know the risk when we line up no one makes us twist the throttle”
“Parents know the risks. That's where responsibility lies”
”Every race I compete in I sign a waiver while signing up for my classes and paying”
”Any time I have participated in an organized event I’ve always signed a release…”
“We all know the risks and possible outcomes when we throw a left over!”
“Didn’t they state he died from a heart condition? 🤔”
”… if you want to race Moto of any type, you take the risk.”
“You know what can happen in any sport you play. It’s all on the person. If you think its unsafe in any way then stay at home.”
“Deer”
I feel for the family and I also feel for the people being sued.
Our society creates havoc when a tragedy occurs. We don’t seem to want to see the root causes of the tragedy. We want to place the blame elsewhere and somehow think there is a resolution for the tragedy.
Everything in life is a risk, even sitting on the couch 24 hours a day is a risk to your health. But, you can’t blame the couch.
I personally can’t say how I would react if my son was killed on a racetrack….if I didn’t want to blame myself, who would I blame?
As I said, I feel for all involved….its a damn shame.
We all have an opinion, but seeing reality is more important!
Well, I wish the family the best. Truly. In the most sarcastic way possible.
MMSA has weathered plenty of storms over the years, not just motocross, but the ski area, the MTB park, and yes, even the parking lot. When you operate 3,500 acres dedicated to recreation, risk is part of the equation whether people like it or not. Not everyone does.
My suggestion to the family is this: remember your child in the fondest way possible. Dragging this out publicly only forces you to relive the grieving process again and again. You may believe this is about doing something for your son, but realistically, the outcome will be an insurance settlement and a polite escort out the door.
No closure. Just paperwork.
How would you feel as a parent if the sport that you devoted your life to ultimately took the life of your child and then decided to turn its nose up at you when you tried to get a straight answer about why your child died?
Aidan’s death was not just some tragic consequence of an inherently dangerous sport. His death was avoidable.
Has a single parent ever gone to racing officials before a race began and questioned the position of flaggers or called out poor flagger position? Is there any sort of audit that is conducted before racing begins to ensure that a race promoter has flaggers in proper positions, or do we just implicitly trust them to do what they are legally obligated to do?
If you really truly in your heart of hearts accept this kind of youth death as a consequence of the sport, then you are effectively signing your child up for Russian roulette and are effectively saying that race promoters have no responsibility to ensure the protection of event participants and that we’re just gonna take their word for it when something truly tragic happens. Because, again, that’s just a consequence of this sport.
So in your mind, if the race promoter said Aiden died because a rider hit him before a flag could be thrown there would be no law suit? You keep going back to the point that the law suit is because they didn’t get answers they wanted so I’m just trying to understand in your mind how this lawsuit could’ve been avoided
Hmm bump.
You think barcia will sue or you think it'll just get talked about so improvements will be made if there's opportunity for it?
I just think it’s interesting folks are screaming gross negligence on feld for the response time to barcia. While in here it’s ’cost of doing business’
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