Have we reached a Manufacturer cap?

With GasGas going and Ducati arriving we are upto a total of 9 manufacturers now in Supercross. Are we in a sweet spot? Can we see any more being added in the future. Kove? Sherco? Fantic? Tm? Maybe Harley Davidson again one day? I’m new to this forum so apologies if this has been asked before. 

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gt80rider
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12/26/2025 11:58am

I hear hodaka is coming back with a fury... or was it Maico breako?? Probably both

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13
12/26/2025 12:00pm

Well once the AMA modernizes their rules and stops living in past, throw Stark in there. 

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62
12/26/2025 12:21pm

Well once the AMA modernizes their rules and stops living in past, throw Stark in there. 

Dude...give it a rest. It is never gonna happen.

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mx216
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12/26/2025 12:29pm

Well once the AMA modernizes their rules and stops living in past, throw Stark in there. 

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The Shop

12/26/2025 12:34pm

Well once the AMA modernizes their rules and stops living in past, throw Stark in there. 

mx216 wrote:
1000008450 0.jpg?VersionId=sOGwo1gTvDuwRyyu3NYRnJjIu

Literally never gonna happen. AMA would have to change from cc limits to HP limits. And they've been operating by cc rules forever. They will NEVER EVER change that. And no team would want everyone knowing the HP they can actually get out of these bikes.

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12/26/2025 12:38pm

Well once the AMA modernizes their rules and stops living in past, throw Stark in there. 

mx216 wrote:
1000008450 0.jpg?VersionId=sOGwo1gTvDuwRyyu3NYRnJjIu
HonDawg17 wrote:
Literally never gonna happen. AMA would have to change from cc limits to HP limits. And they've been operating by cc rules forever. They will NEVER...

Literally never gonna happen. AMA would have to change from cc limits to HP limits. And they've been operating by cc rules forever. They will NEVER EVER change that. And no team would want everyone knowing the HP they can actually get out of these bikes.

More chance of Suzuki making an E start for consumers 

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12/26/2025 12:44pm

Well once the AMA modernizes their rules and stops living in past, throw Stark in there. 

mx216 wrote:
1000008450 0.jpg?VersionId=sOGwo1gTvDuwRyyu3NYRnJjIu
HonDawg17 wrote:
Literally never gonna happen. AMA would have to change from cc limits to HP limits. And they've been operating by cc rules forever. They will NEVER...

Literally never gonna happen. AMA would have to change from cc limits to HP limits. And they've been operating by cc rules forever. They will NEVER EVER change that. And no team would want everyone knowing the HP they can actually get out of these bikes.

They can all make more than they currently do, it's about the usability of the power, not how much they can produce. No one wants max HP... except Tomac lol.

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Flatliner
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12/26/2025 12:54pm

Well once the AMA modernizes their rules and stops living in past, throw Stark in there. 

Worked so well with the 4 strokes, didn't it.

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smee113
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12/26/2025 1:11pm

Well once the AMA modernizes their rules and stops living in past, throw Stark in there. 

I have nothing against electric bikes, but I can't think of any other motorsport that let's electric compete with internal combustion, outside open classes like at Pike's Peak. I think electric should be given it's own class, but it would probably just be Stark's, so I don't know that that makes since, either. Maybe the sport should go back to three classes; open (including electric), 250f, and 125t.

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dcg141
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12/26/2025 1:22pm

Fantic, Sherco and TM don’t have the money. Kove possibly. 

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wwdiii
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12/26/2025 1:25pm
With GasGas going and Ducati arriving we are upto a total of 9 manufacturers now in Supercross. Are we in a sweet spot? Can we see...

With GasGas going and Ducati arriving we are upto a total of 9 manufacturers now in Supercross. Are we in a sweet spot? Can we see any more being added in the future. Kove? Sherco? Fantic? Tm? Maybe Harley Davidson again one day? I’m new to this forum so apologies if this has been asked before. 

I’d guess Kove will jump in the game one of these days.  I’d also guess Sherco will stay in the off-road game.  TM is to boutique.  I doubt we will see Fantic anytime soon and I don’t have a clue how large a company they are.  I read a while back some enduro models are being imported in the US.

 

byke
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12/26/2025 1:28pm Edited Date/Time 12/26/2025 1:29pm

Well once the AMA modernizes their rules and stops living in past, throw Stark in there. 

Flatliner wrote:

Worked so well with the 4 strokes, didn't it.

But since we're pipe dreaming, the only models allowed to compete are literally bone stock showroom floor bikes with an MSRP of no more than 14% OTD of the average annual wage.

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MPJC
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12/26/2025 1:34pm

Don’t electric bike just need horsepower limits that keep their power comparable to gas bikes and data logging to ensure compliance? There’s no reason to change anything else for existing bikes. WSX did it so it can be done. I don’t see a problem. Am I missing something? 

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12/26/2025 1:46pm
MPJC wrote:
Don’t electric bike just need horsepower limits that keep their power comparable to gas bikes and data logging to ensure compliance? There’s no reason to change...

Don’t electric bike just need horsepower limits that keep their power comparable to gas bikes and data logging to ensure compliance? There’s no reason to change anything else for existing bikes. WSX did it so it can be done. I don’t see a problem. Am I missing something? 

People are just salty mate. Gas bikes are trying to get as much HP as they can (especially 250s) while electric bikes need to have a "cap" (handicap) to make it fair. 

The AMA is a joke and they should not be the governing body of American Racing. 

Their rules for 2 strokes should tell you all you need to know...

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Kyzer138
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12/26/2025 1:46pm
MPJC wrote:
Don’t electric bike just need horsepower limits that keep their power comparable to gas bikes and data logging to ensure compliance? There’s no reason to change...

Don’t electric bike just need horsepower limits that keep their power comparable to gas bikes and data logging to ensure compliance? There’s no reason to change anything else for existing bikes. WSX did it so it can be done. I don’t see a problem. Am I missing something? 

Was thinking the same thing. As much I don’t agree with Starks running with gas powered bikes, WSX made the attempt, so give it time and it’s bound to make it to the AMA in some form. Look at the younger generation, they’re all on these damn E bikes now…

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12/26/2025 1:50pm
MPJC wrote:
Don’t electric bike just need horsepower limits that keep their power comparable to gas bikes and data logging to ensure compliance? There’s no reason to change...

Don’t electric bike just need horsepower limits that keep their power comparable to gas bikes and data logging to ensure compliance? There’s no reason to change anything else for existing bikes. WSX did it so it can be done. I don’t see a problem. Am I missing something? 

Kyzer138 wrote:
Was thinking the same thing. As much I don’t agree with Starks running with gas powered bikes, WSX made the attempt, so give it time and...

Was thinking the same thing. As much I don’t agree with Starks running with gas powered bikes, WSX made the attempt, so give it time and it’s bound to make it to the AMA in some form. Look at the younger generation, they’re all on these damn E bikes now…

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LewDizzle
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12/26/2025 2:36pm

^With 10 teams with skin in the game now they should have a "manufacturers cup" that runs ALL season. Indoors, Outdoors, WSX, etc. And I wanna see it after the race results sheet for every race on TV, social media, print media, etc. If everyone can publish their bike shootouts every year, I wanna see the best team every year. 

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Zacka 161
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12/26/2025 2:38pm

Well once the AMA modernizes their rules and stops living in past, throw Stark in there. 

Flatliner wrote:

Worked so well with the 4 strokes, didn't it.

byke wrote:
But since we're pipe dreaming, the only models allowed to compete are literally bone stock showroom floor bikes with an MSRP of no more than 14%...

But since we're pipe dreaming, the only models allowed to compete are literally bone stock showroom floor bikes with an MSRP of no more than 14% OTD of the average annual wage.

*median. 

So it actually represents reality 

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mxaniac
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12/26/2025 3:00pm

Has the Stark ever gone the full 20 minutes +2 laps? I don't know that it could do a full SX main. Full outdoor moto would be even harder.

Before someone tells me they ride their Stark for 2 hours all the time that's not relevant. Top level professional riders racing MX/SX are in a different league. The Stark doesn't have that much more capacity than the Alta, and it couldn't do a full race.

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JM485
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12/26/2025 3:03pm
HonDawg17 wrote:

Dude...give it a rest. It is never gonna happen.

Care to place a wager on that?

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Tiki
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Fantasy
12/26/2025 3:22pm
With GasGas going and Ducati arriving we are upto a total of 9 manufacturers now in Supercross. Are we in a sweet spot? Can we see...

With GasGas going and Ducati arriving we are upto a total of 9 manufacturers now in Supercross. Are we in a sweet spot? Can we see any more being added in the future. Kove? Sherco? Fantic? Tm? Maybe Harley Davidson again one day? I’m new to this forum so apologies if this has been asked before. 

I am not saying this to be mean. I like both these brands. But I am not sure if GasGas and Ducati will survive the next five years. GasGas linked into the KTM and Bajaj restructuring, and when brands overlap, redundancy gets leg go unless it can earn its keep. Gasgas cut the Trials team. Will MX be next? 

Ducati is a different story. Amazing bikes, but ownership is expensive and buyers even though they are rich, are starting to push back at those costs. Motocross might be their shot into a sustainable market if they can prove the bikes value. Volkswagen Auto Group is also restructuring, Ducati is part of Audi AG which is a child to VAG, Ducati may not get the chance to soar even if it is successful. No amount of Trophies or Fanfare will replace the bottom line. We would all love a Ducati; speaking from the wallet? We are all stunned at bike prices today. 

Just my thoughts. 

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wwdiii
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12/26/2025 3:25pm
With GasGas going and Ducati arriving we are upto a total of 9 manufacturers now in Supercross. Are we in a sweet spot? Can we see...

With GasGas going and Ducati arriving we are upto a total of 9 manufacturers now in Supercross. Are we in a sweet spot? Can we see any more being added in the future. Kove? Sherco? Fantic? Tm? Maybe Harley Davidson again one day? I’m new to this forum so apologies if this has been asked before. 

I didn’t think Gas Gas was going anywhere other than Trials was being axed.  Thought MX and SX had sponsor changes.  Somebody correct me if I’m wrong.

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CPR
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12/26/2025 3:26pm

Not sure about a cap, but I never thought we’d have as many as there currently is.

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kage173
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12/26/2025 3:27pm
LewDizzle wrote:
^With 10 teams with skin in the game now they should have a "manufacturers cup" that runs ALL season. Indoors, Outdoors, WSX, etc. And I wanna...

^With 10 teams with skin in the game now they should have a "manufacturers cup" that runs ALL season. Indoors, Outdoors, WSX, etc. And I wanna see it after the race results sheet for every race on TV, social media, print media, etc. If everyone can publish their bike shootouts every year, I wanna see the best team every year. 

They started tracking Manufacturers points a couple of years ago. But, they were super inconsistent about reporting it wither on the broadcast or the website. 

In my opinion they should make a huge story line out of it like they do in F1 and IMSA. People usually have a preferred manufacturer and it gets them even more tied in. 

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bvm111
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12/26/2025 3:44pm

Well once the AMA modernizes their rules and stops living in past, throw Stark in there. 

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12/26/2025 3:49pm

I feel like I’ve annoyed a lot of people haha I didn’t mean to. I just think it’s really interesting to be in a point where so many have bought in now where 20 years ago it was still the big 4. I’m all for a diverse range of manufacturers I just wonder when that becomes too much 

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Press516
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Fantasy
12/26/2025 6:05pm
MPJC wrote:
Don’t electric bike just need horsepower limits that keep their power comparable to gas bikes and data logging to ensure compliance? There’s no reason to change...

Don’t electric bike just need horsepower limits that keep their power comparable to gas bikes and data logging to ensure compliance? There’s no reason to change anything else for existing bikes. WSX did it so it can be done. I don’t see a problem. Am I missing something? 

People are just salty mate. Gas bikes are trying to get as much HP as they can (especially 250s) while electric bikes need to have a...

People are just salty mate. Gas bikes are trying to get as much HP as they can (especially 250s) while electric bikes need to have a "cap" (handicap) to make it fair. 

The AMA is a joke and they should not be the governing body of American Racing. 

Their rules for 2 strokes should tell you all you need to know...

Handicap?  If the Stark motor was designed to go 30+2 at Southwick, it would be down on power to a 250f…. Let alone a 450.  In this case they went big on the motor, so the current has to be turned way down to make the race duration.

If you can’t see the designed in limitations like cc’s in the ICE bikes, versus the limitations on power supply, which is battery capacity on the electric bike, not sure how to explain it.

 

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MPJC
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Location
CA
Fantasy
12/26/2025 6:42pm
MPJC wrote:
Don’t electric bike just need horsepower limits that keep their power comparable to gas bikes and data logging to ensure compliance? There’s no reason to change...

Don’t electric bike just need horsepower limits that keep their power comparable to gas bikes and data logging to ensure compliance? There’s no reason to change anything else for existing bikes. WSX did it so it can be done. I don’t see a problem. Am I missing something? 

People are just salty mate. Gas bikes are trying to get as much HP as they can (especially 250s) while electric bikes need to have a...

People are just salty mate. Gas bikes are trying to get as much HP as they can (especially 250s) while electric bikes need to have a "cap" (handicap) to make it fair. 

The AMA is a joke and they should not be the governing body of American Racing. 

Their rules for 2 strokes should tell you all you need to know...

Press516 wrote:
Handicap?  If the Stark motor was designed to go 30+2 at Southwick, it would be down on power to a 250f…. Let alone a 450.  In...

Handicap?  If the Stark motor was designed to go 30+2 at Southwick, it would be down on power to a 250f…. Let alone a 450.  In this case they went big on the motor, so the current has to be turned way down to make the race duration.

If you can’t see the designed in limitations like cc’s in the ICE bikes, versus the limitations on power supply, which is battery capacity on the electric bike, not sure how to explain it.

 

How long the battery lasts isn’t the AMA’s concern. Ensuring that the bike isn’t producing 80hp on the staring gate, on the other hand, is the sort of thing that they should care about. The upper limit is what the rule book would need to regulate. 

The fact that the Stark won’t last 30 + 2 at Southwick at competitive power levels is a reason not to race one at Southwick in its current form but it’s not something the rulebook would need to address. 

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Zacka 161
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Location
Mount Waverley, VIC AU
12/26/2025 6:42pm
MPJC wrote:
Don’t electric bike just need horsepower limits that keep their power comparable to gas bikes and data logging to ensure compliance? There’s no reason to change...

Don’t electric bike just need horsepower limits that keep their power comparable to gas bikes and data logging to ensure compliance? There’s no reason to change anything else for existing bikes. WSX did it so it can be done. I don’t see a problem. Am I missing something? 

People are just salty mate. Gas bikes are trying to get as much HP as they can (especially 250s) while electric bikes need to have a...

People are just salty mate. Gas bikes are trying to get as much HP as they can (especially 250s) while electric bikes need to have a "cap" (handicap) to make it fair. 

The AMA is a joke and they should not be the governing body of American Racing. 

Their rules for 2 strokes should tell you all you need to know...

Press516 wrote:
Handicap?  If the Stark motor was designed to go 30+2 at Southwick, it would be down on power to a 250f…. Let alone a 450.  In...

Handicap?  If the Stark motor was designed to go 30+2 at Southwick, it would be down on power to a 250f…. Let alone a 450.  In this case they went big on the motor, so the current has to be turned way down to make the race duration.

If you can’t see the designed in limitations like cc’s in the ICE bikes, versus the limitations on power supply, which is battery capacity on the electric bike, not sure how to explain it.

 

So could would limiting  the battery capacity be the more appropriate method? 

This would need to also restrict any on the fly power train alterations so the don’t set it to 80hp for the start… but to me that should also apply to petrol bikes to remove start maps and the honda ‘button’ 

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skypig
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Caloundra AU
12/26/2025 7:18pm

They need a true “Open” class. 
650cc 4T

500 2T 

1000cc Superbike engine if you think it will help

Electric with no restrictions 


It’s not Drag racing. Few want more power than stock 450s

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