Roczen and Anderson RMZ 450

ML512
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12/8/2025 6:38am
In 2018, the CRF 450 switched to e-start with minimal other change (in 2017 it was an optional accessory). The bike gained 5 lbs curb weight.Interestingly...

In 2018, the CRF 450 switched to e-start with minimal other change (in 2017 it was an optional accessory). The bike gained 5 lbs curb weight.

Interestingly, in 2018 Brayton (and Kenny for 1 outdoor mx) chose to use the old kickstart setup for the weight savings.

It wasn't the weight that led Kenny and Justin's decision; it was engine character and how the e-start (well, the accessory gears to be exact) changed a little bit of feel in the motor.

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12/8/2025 6:44am

Look at a shootout from 25 - 30 years ago and there would be a bike with crap power, one with brakes that didn't work, one that broke down etc etc. For the last ten years there hasn't really been many "bad" bikes; they just reached a point where there wasn't much more they could do and it's just been small refinements.

A bike 5 years old isn't really that far behind. I bet Yamaha have made a fortune out of the initial investment on the '06 YZ tooling + 20 years of sales off the back of it.

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theraptur712
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12/8/2025 6:50am
aeffertz wrote:

What do you mean? So should shootouts list the weights as hypotheticals or what they actually weigh?

They should be weighed ready to race with the same amount of fuel in each.

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PRM31
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12/8/2025 7:19am

Weighing with full tanks punishes bikes with larger tanks. Weigh with no fuel since we all can choose how much fuel to use and it would be the same for nearly any bike. 

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The Shop

ML512
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12/8/2025 7:23am
PRM31 wrote:
Weighing with full tanks punishes bikes with larger tanks. Weigh with no fuel since we all can choose how much fuel to use and it would...

Weighing with full tanks punishes bikes with larger tanks. Weigh with no fuel since we all can choose how much fuel to use and it would be the same for nearly any bike. 

I've done both certain years, and the majority of the consensus I received was that full of fuel mattered more. I tend to agree as a bike with no fuel in it can't go anywhere.

I've also yet to meet a person at the track who measures the amount of fuel they put in a bike to choose the weight...

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Timo
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12/8/2025 8:00am
AssangeMX wrote:
The rmz is likely to be significantly heavier than the others.  The laws of physics apply in all motorsports, a heavier vehicle will take more energy...

The rmz is likely to be significantly heavier than the others.  The laws of physics apply in all motorsports, a heavier vehicle will take more energy to accelerate and deceleratie,  or change direction. 

Motocross is supposed to be the most physically demanding sport, yet somehow these laws of physics are overcome???

Even if it was 15lbs heavier, it's not that big of a deal. People freak out about it, but there's 100 other things that will wear you out before that little extra weight. Power character, suspension settings, tire pressure, traction across multiple surfaces and lean angles, bike rider triangle, how many times you fall over and have to pick up the bike.

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Timo
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12/8/2025 8:06am
PRM31 wrote:
Weighing with full tanks punishes bikes with larger tanks. Weigh with no fuel since we all can choose how much fuel to use and it would...

Weighing with full tanks punishes bikes with larger tanks. Weigh with no fuel since we all can choose how much fuel to use and it would be the same for nearly any bike. 

ML512 wrote:
I've done both certain years, and the majority of the consensus I received was that full of fuel mattered more. I tend to agree as a...

I've done both certain years, and the majority of the consensus I received was that full of fuel mattered more. I tend to agree as a bike with no fuel in it can't go anywhere.

I've also yet to meet a person at the track who measures the amount of fuel they put in a bike to choose the weight...

Whenever I'm gassing up it's to the filler neck every time. Why the heck would you want to fill it up more often because it might add a couple of pounds? Probably the same guy that's checking tire pressure, changing his air filter, and swapping clutch plates in-between his 15min motos...

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mxaniac
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12/8/2025 8:21am

By 2005 most everyone had the 2T handling great. The newest Austrian bikes have a counterbalancer, bigger brakes and a mapping switch but I'd rather ride the last gen Suzuki or Honda after a revalve and bigger rotors.

On the 4T, they hooked up and accelerated well. That's it, they were heavier, cornered worse, and the suspension on production bikes just didn't match the bike character. They were a frame optimized for a 2T with a heavy 4T engine in it. Personally I didn't ride a 4T I even remotely liked until a decade layer. KTM started providing light weight bikes with e start and winning races. The Big 4 were losing market share, but worse they were losing reputation. The other bikes started getting better. Been a while since I rode the Kawasaki but both Honda and Yamaha have made huge improvements in handling and balance, and of course power. I no longer hop on my 2T and get overjoyed at how much better it handles. Suzuki corners quick, but it is heavy, down on power, and feels unbalanced to me.

Roczen went from a title contender to a race win contender on Suzuki. It's a good bike, but it doesn't have that overall nimble feel the new Honda and Yamaha's have. For top level amateurs and pros in my opinion the bike leaves something on the table. For the rest of us, lap times may not be better, but I get that joy of riding I had on the 2T back in the latest 4T. For a long time, I just didn't have that much fun on the 4T and kept going back to the 2T. With the latest Honda and Yamaha I get that shit and giggles grin I was missing.

Let the downvotes begin.

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12/8/2025 8:54am

Kenny’s limitation isn’t his bike, it’s himself.  What was the round last year when he attempted to pass a lapper in a sand section and ended up crashing and derailing his chain?  See, you can’t do shit like that.  17 rounds in SX presents a ton of opportunities to make errors.  Don’t make it any harder than it already is.

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12/8/2025 9:02am

japanese bikes peaked around 2015 and ktm 2018. i think if you put good forks on any of those bike you will be just as fast as an 2025

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Gravel
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12/8/2025 9:14am

Setup matters more than “latest/greatest” hardware, and there’s been a lot of work done on the RMZ over the years. 

I bet KR loves the off season, he gets to focus on improving his fitness and technique instead of testing every possible combination of parts for weeks on end.

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12/8/2025 9:48am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2025 9:51am
aeffertz wrote:

What do you mean? So should shootouts list the weights as hypotheticals or what they actually weigh?

They should be weighed ready to race with the same amount of fuel in each.

Either way, they're mostly all close enough that a quart or two of gas is the major difference maker between them.

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chasetwo79
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12/8/2025 10:06am
DownSouth wrote:
Suzuki used to be the heaviest. Over the years every other brand has added weight and now some have surpassed the RMZ.  The one benefit of...

Suzuki used to be the heaviest. Over the years every other brand has added weight and now some have surpassed the RMZ.  The one benefit of never changing is that it hasn't gained weight like the rest of them.

chasetwo79 wrote:

They also don't have a battery or starter weight yet added in. 

aeffertz wrote:

What do you mean? So should shootouts list the weights as hypotheticals or what they actually weigh?

I just meant that Suzuki has work to do with their next release cycle to get electric start on the bike and stay within weight. 

I honestly have zero issues with Suzuki waiting 8-10 years to release a new version of their bike. Clearly it hasn't impacted the ability of it to be made into a competitive bike. 

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AssangeMX
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12/8/2025 11:14am

The whole point of manufacturing a motorcycle is to sell them. 

Not many people arenbuying these bikes, so for all the points made in this thread, they key one is missing the mark.

DaveNoones
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12/8/2025 11:24am
aeffertz wrote:
Who’s that quote from? I pretty much disagree with the entire sentiment. :lol:Kenny has definitely been pushed to his limit in AMA SX and has shown...

Who’s that quote from? I pretty much disagree with the entire sentiment. Grinning

Kenny has definitely been pushed to his limit in AMA SX and has shown the bike is capable. The only real disadvantage it has is its lack of electrical start but if you don’t crash or stall the bike, it doesn’t matter. Anderson just dealt with the kickstarter disadvantage last week.  And my last point is I don’t think Anderson even looked that good at all this weekend, regardless of the result. Lots of sketchy moments. 

Engine size is engine size 450 cant really improve on that, valvetrain is pretty much valvetrain can be improved, electronics, maps can be improved, id like to know what really can;t be done that the other bikes have that factory suzuki cant do? 

I get chassis cant prob be improved.

just ride the fing think

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Kenny Banyan
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12/8/2025 12:08pm
OwenJakes wrote:

Stupid thread. Stupid statement. Wrong information. 


What’s outdated on the bike? Is it still using a carburetor or something?

It doesn’t have a Hemi!😳

Village Idiot
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12/8/2025 7:08pm
aeffertz wrote:

What do you mean? So should shootouts list the weights as hypotheticals or what they actually weigh?

They should be weighed ready to race with the same amount of fuel in each.

Empty is the same amount of fuel.

This provides a standardized baseline number to show the weight differentials of the bikes for comparison without any confusion caused by different fuel capacities.

 

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NorcalVet
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12/8/2025 8:21pm
IMG 1868 6.jpeg?VersionId=SQcVbryiADdogd1x5NRq


My best fun set up was 05 rm 250 and my rmz 450 set up the same way. Same bars, grips and suspension. Where I could just jump back and forth to both bikes depending on tracks or conditions. Or if I wanted to be more lazy on the rmz. The rmz had a full yosh set up and mapping 

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Press516
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12/8/2025 8:23pm
aeffertz wrote:

What do you mean? So should shootouts list the weights as hypotheticals or what they actually weigh?

They should be weighed ready to race with the same amount of fuel in each.

Empty is the same amount of fuel.This provides a standardized baseline number to show the weight differentials of the bikes for comparison without any confusion caused...

Empty is the same amount of fuel.

This provides a standardized baseline number to show the weight differentials of the bikes for comparison without any confusion caused by different fuel capacities.

 

Yes, MFG posted curb weights is not a standard measurement.  Race prepped with no fuel should be the standard.

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NorcalVet
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12/8/2025 8:24pm
IMG 4200 2
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mx317
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12/9/2025 5:54am
aeffertz wrote:

What do you mean? So should shootouts list the weights as hypotheticals or what they actually weigh?

They should be weighed ready to race with the same amount of fuel in each.

or no fuel which would be easier and give the same comparison. 

4
12/14/2025 6:06pm

It should be full of fuel because the tank is part of the design.   

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Spoonguy
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12/14/2025 7:05pm

I think the Pipes team preparation of the bikes should not be discounted in how Anderson and Roczen's bikes run. That the bike is never used by AMA privateers, or GP teams, and has no results in high level amateur competitions is another example of how competitive the bike is amongst other brands. Perhaps there have been minimal advancements in a while, but if the bikes would be the same from year to year people would have less of an excuse to get new scooters. Flashy new models does sell bikes, I would bet amongst the big five, Suzuki does sell the least number no doubt.

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Gravel
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12/14/2025 9:02pm
Spoonguy wrote:
I think the Pipes team preparation of the bikes should not be discounted in how Anderson and Roczen's bikes run. That the bike is never used...

I think the Pipes team preparation of the bikes should not be discounted in how Anderson and Roczen's bikes run. That the bike is never used by AMA privateers, or GP teams, and has no results in high level amateur competitions is another example of how competitive the bike is amongst other brands. Perhaps there have been minimal advancements in a while, but if the bikes would be the same from year to year people would have less of an excuse to get new scooters. Flashy new models does sell bikes, I would bet amongst the big five, Suzuki does sell the least number no doubt.

Contingency money is probably the biggest factor in what privateers ride, the best bike is usually a distant second. Gotta pay the bills to get to the next race..

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12/14/2025 11:40pm
Spoonguy wrote:
I think the Pipes team preparation of the bikes should not be discounted in how Anderson and Roczen's bikes run. That the bike is never used...

I think the Pipes team preparation of the bikes should not be discounted in how Anderson and Roczen's bikes run. That the bike is never used by AMA privateers, or GP teams, and has no results in high level amateur competitions is another example of how competitive the bike is amongst other brands. Perhaps there have been minimal advancements in a while, but if the bikes would be the same from year to year people would have less of an excuse to get new scooters. Flashy new models does sell bikes, I would bet amongst the big five, Suzuki does sell the least number no doubt.

Contingency! 

If Suzuki decided to pay more contingency than the others, you’d see a sea of yellow on the gates. 

That is why privateers aren’t riding them, Not how competitive/uncompetitive the machine is. 

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Spoonguy
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12/15/2025 4:26am
Spoonguy wrote:
I think the Pipes team preparation of the bikes should not be discounted in how Anderson and Roczen's bikes run. That the bike is never used...

I think the Pipes team preparation of the bikes should not be discounted in how Anderson and Roczen's bikes run. That the bike is never used by AMA privateers, or GP teams, and has no results in high level amateur competitions is another example of how competitive the bike is amongst other brands. Perhaps there have been minimal advancements in a while, but if the bikes would be the same from year to year people would have less of an excuse to get new scooters. Flashy new models does sell bikes, I would bet amongst the big five, Suzuki does sell the least number no doubt.

Gravel wrote:
Contingency money is probably the biggest factor in what privateers ride, the best bike is usually a distant second. Gotta pay the bills to get to...

Contingency money is probably the biggest factor in what privateers ride, the best bike is usually a distant second. Gotta pay the bills to get to the next race..

I understand that, but nobody? I think we can all agree that Suzuki has virtually no presents in any other form of racing besides Roczen and Anderson. I really cannot think of any. Not just MX either. The manufacturer has a wealth of history in all forms of motorcycle racing with many of the greats in all forms racing for them through their history.

12/15/2025 4:28am

Who says it's outdated?   Smartest bike on the market today.   Buy cheap, modify it to what you need.  Not buy expensive, then add what you need.  The smart buyer goes yellow. 

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usp4u1
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12/15/2025 5:06am
Spoonguy wrote:
I understand that, but nobody? I think we can all agree that Suzuki has virtually no presents in any other form of racing besides Roczen and...

I understand that, but nobody? I think we can all agree that Suzuki has virtually no presents in any other form of racing besides Roczen and Anderson. I really cannot think of any. Not just MX either. The manufacturer has a wealth of history in all forms of motorcycle racing with many of the greats in all forms racing for them through their history.

Suzuki has increased its presence in NHRA Pro Stock Bike in the last few years.  Going so far as to sponsor segments on the Fox broadcasts, along with a resurgence in the class they once again dominate.

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kijen
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12/15/2025 6:11am
Gravel wrote:
Contingency money is probably the biggest factor in what privateers ride, the best bike is usually a distant second. Gotta pay the bills to get to...

Contingency money is probably the biggest factor in what privateers ride, the best bike is usually a distant second. Gotta pay the bills to get to the next race..

what percent of buyers actually race or are competitive enough to get a contingency? does a pro privateer actually do well enough to place for one?

Id guess getting a good deal and close dealer is one of the biggest factors.

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