MIC on tariffs

4/24/2025 10:12am Edited Date/Time 4/24/2025 10:17am
RichieW13 wrote:

Working in a factory manufacturing Barbie dolls and assembling iPhones are not going to be good paying jobs. 

People seem to overlook the types of jobs and who will be doing those jobs if the manufacturing were to move to the US.  These aren’t...

People seem to overlook the types of jobs and who will be doing those jobs if the manufacturing were to move to the US.  These aren’t 70k a year with benefits careers.  These are $40k with long hours and monotonous work.  Americans are spoiled and will not get in line for these jobs if they are at some point increased.

MOTO13 wrote:
If the feds could cut off 95% of the bullshit assistance, these people would have line up for the jobs. Everyone can't be a brain surgeon...

If the feds could cut off 95% of the bullshit assistance, these people would have line up for the jobs. Everyone can't be a brain surgeon making $800k a year, so they better get used to actually working. I know of many people who are between 25-45 (prime working years) and are on this disability BS bandwagon because they have anxiety, depression or whateverthefuckelse problem and "can't" work. For all I care they can starve.

Last time the US created jobs because of tariffs it cost us, tax payers, $817k in subsidies per job.  It literally cost $800k in our money to “create” $50k a year jobs.  Far more than people on disability and social security.


https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.20190611



My mom was a house cleaner and worked at a pharmacy part time when I was a kid.  We lived in subsidized housing and she was on welfare.  Guess what? She worked all the time.  She is personable and smart.  The problem isn’t your neighbor.  It is the people hoarding money at the top.


IMG 1592 0

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soggy
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4/24/2025 10:18am

So many people here bag on china and now you want to become like them??  Look at the countries producing and manufacturing a lot of goods we buy.. you want to be like them?  No thanks, I’m good. 

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motomike137
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4/24/2025 10:27am
Tyler D wrote:
the quality of many chinese goods are getting scary good. we're 50 years behind in some categories. post-war boomer corporation party is over gents. time to...

the quality of many chinese goods are getting scary good. we're 50 years behind in some categories. post-war boomer corporation party is over gents. time to make up for lost time or we'll be a vassal state with no buying power. 

We're not behind. We don't make anything here. We either gave away or they stole all the manufacturing knowledge. We've been sold out for decades and we are addicted to buying shopping cart loads of cheap shit we don't need every other day at Sprawl Mart. I'm 100% behind President Trump on this.

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RichieW13
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4/24/2025 10:36am
Tyler D wrote:
the quality of many chinese goods are getting scary good. we're 50 years behind in some categories. post-war boomer corporation party is over gents. time to...

the quality of many chinese goods are getting scary good. we're 50 years behind in some categories. post-war boomer corporation party is over gents. time to make up for lost time or we'll be a vassal state with no buying power. 

We're not behind. We don't make anything here. We either gave away or they stole all the manufacturing knowledge. We've been sold out for decades and...

We're not behind. We don't make anything here. We either gave away or they stole all the manufacturing knowledge. We've been sold out for decades and we are addicted to buying shopping cart loads of cheap shit we don't need every other day at Sprawl Mart. I'm 100% behind President Trump on this.

Not true.  As I posted above, The United States is the #2 manufacturing country in the world.

Mostly what we manufacture is large and high technology goods.  Airplanes, tractors, chemicals, military equipment, etc.

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The Shop

Markopolo400
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4/24/2025 10:43am

The problem is, they’re being sold here as well in some cases. 

This is true, but to be completely honest the patent system is a joke. I think I have 10+ patents now (haven't counted in a while), and they are only any good if you have deep ass pockets to go after the infringer in court. 

If a small company has a patent, big company rips it off, the big company can usually bury the small company in court with legal fees and they give up before a verdict is reached. I have been on both sides of the coin on this one unfortunately.

And regardless of the patent, unless your IP attorney is amazing and is granted incredibly broad claims, there are ways around most patents if you get creative.

Not defending China or IP infringement by any means, more so just venting as a product developer for a small company LOL

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4/24/2025 10:45am
Democrat logic is we would rather help the CCP continue to exploit it's people and the rest of the world with nearly no safety, health and...

Democrat logic is we would rather help the CCP continue to exploit it's people and the rest of the world with nearly no safety, health and environmental regulations. Vote to shutdown refineries, vote to shutdown oil drilling. Then vote for nothing but regulation and employee benefits in the USA . Lastly, making the argument that it's too expensive to do here and we rely on these countries for XY and Z. I wonder why. 

 

SKlein wrote:
Whose logic would it be to exploit our own people then? https://www.legion.org/information-center/news/veterans-healthcare/2025/march/83000-va-workers-targeted-for-layoffs-by-august "Veterans, who are given preference in hiring, make up about one-third of federal...

Whose logic would it be to exploit our own people then? 

https://www.legion.org/information-center/news/veterans-healthcare/2025/march/83000-va-workers-targeted-for-layoffs-by-august "Veterans, who are given preference in hiring, make up about one-third of federal employees."

Not sure why you think there needs to be a line in the sand on these issues when clearly both sides have shitty execution of policies.

 

This is your rebuttal? Pretty weak in my opinion. That isn’t exploiting our people. That’s reducing the workforce back to 2019 levels before Biden decided to bloat the government even more. This is something all of us go through in the private sector. You know when you vote to shut down oil,gas and coal people lose jobs as well. 

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Zycki11
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4/24/2025 10:52am
mb60 wrote:

Some people are just so blind they can't look past what  actual tariffs will do to prices in the USA. 

Some people are so blind they think right in front of the situation and not long term. Nor understand the reasoning behind things. 


They also make me scratch my head and laugh when they speak out. 😂

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Zycki11
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4/24/2025 10:53am Edited Date/Time 4/24/2025 12:18pm

The problem is, they’re being sold here as well in some cases. 

This is true, but to be completely honest the patent system is a joke. I think I have 10+ patents now (haven't counted in a while)...

This is true, but to be completely honest the patent system is a joke. I think I have 10+ patents now (haven't counted in a while), and they are only any good if you have deep ass pockets to go after the infringer in court. 

If a small company has a patent, big company rips it off, the big company can usually bury the small company in court with legal fees and they give up before a verdict is reached. I have been on both sides of the coin on this one unfortunately.

And regardless of the patent, unless your IP attorney is amazing and is granted incredibly broad claims, there are ways around most patents if you get creative.

Not defending China or IP infringement by any means, more so just venting as a product developer for a small company LOL

And the very good patents the government takes from inventor haha 🤣 

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MOTO13
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4/24/2025 11:09am
People seem to overlook the types of jobs and who will be doing those jobs if the manufacturing were to move to the US.  These aren’t...

People seem to overlook the types of jobs and who will be doing those jobs if the manufacturing were to move to the US.  These aren’t 70k a year with benefits careers.  These are $40k with long hours and monotonous work.  Americans are spoiled and will not get in line for these jobs if they are at some point increased.

MOTO13 wrote:
If the feds could cut off 95% of the bullshit assistance, these people would have line up for the jobs. Everyone can't be a brain surgeon...

If the feds could cut off 95% of the bullshit assistance, these people would have line up for the jobs. Everyone can't be a brain surgeon making $800k a year, so they better get used to actually working. I know of many people who are between 25-45 (prime working years) and are on this disability BS bandwagon because they have anxiety, depression or whateverthefuckelse problem and "can't" work. For all I care they can starve.

Last time the US created jobs because of tariffs it cost us, tax payers, $817k in subsidies per job.  It literally cost $800k in our money...

Last time the US created jobs because of tariffs it cost us, tax payers, $817k in subsidies per job.  It literally cost $800k in our money to “create” $50k a year jobs.  Far more than people on disability and social security.


https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.20190611



My mom was a house cleaner and worked at a pharmacy part time when I was a kid.  We lived in subsidized housing and she was on welfare.  Guess what? She worked all the time.  She is personable and smart.  The problem isn’t your neighbor.  It is the people hoarding money at the top.


IMG 1592 0

As a former fed auditor and been in the acctng world for decades...that is a stupid line of bullshit. The way the gov't accounts for costs vs benefits is another league of stupidity all on its own. Job creation and retention has been a boondoggle of bullshit with the feds for decades. Supporting certain businesses with loans and grants based on VERY DUBIOUS employment records by the recipients of the money and the way the gov't allows a retained part time employee as job creation etc. You should believe about 2% of what comes from the government.  You MUST have vast manuf in your country or you at the risk of every other modernized country on the planet. Tariffs are also deterrent. Anyway, like them or not, something should be done just based on the trade imbalances, let alone the financial roadblocks in place to enter other countries markets 

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Tim507
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4/24/2025 11:26am
Tim507 wrote:
Tariffs are simply tools—neither good nor bad. Like all tools in the toolbox of life, it's how we use them that defines their outcome. Some use...

Tariffs are simply tools—neither good nor bad. Like all tools in the toolbox of life, it's how we use them that defines their outcome. Some use tools to create, others to destroy. In the end, what we choose is what we create.

Fear builds walls. Vision builds bridges.
The path we build reflects the hands that built it.

Not here to argue politics—just dropping this for those who might feel it.

Tariffs are tools. Same with sanctions. Same with Trump.
None of them are the problem or the solution by themselves. It’s how and why they’re used.

What if this whole “mess” is actually on purpose?
What if Trump’s chaos wasn’t random—but a way to rip open a fake global system designed to keep everybody broke, dependent, and asleep?

Maybe the goal isn’t just lower prices.
Maybe it’s something bigger—like clearing the playing field so something new can rise. Something debt-free. Sovereign. Fair.

Call it whatever you want.
Some folks call it NESARA. Others just call it freedom finally coming due.

Either way, what we choose is what we create.
And the truth? It’s not gonna come through a press release. It’s gonna come through us.

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4/24/2025 11:38am
MOTO13 wrote:
If the feds could cut off 95% of the bullshit assistance, these people would have line up for the jobs. Everyone can't be a brain surgeon...

If the feds could cut off 95% of the bullshit assistance, these people would have line up for the jobs. Everyone can't be a brain surgeon making $800k a year, so they better get used to actually working. I know of many people who are between 25-45 (prime working years) and are on this disability BS bandwagon because they have anxiety, depression or whateverthefuckelse problem and "can't" work. For all I care they can starve.

Last time the US created jobs because of tariffs it cost us, tax payers, $817k in subsidies per job.  It literally cost $800k in our money...

Last time the US created jobs because of tariffs it cost us, tax payers, $817k in subsidies per job.  It literally cost $800k in our money to “create” $50k a year jobs.  Far more than people on disability and social security.


https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.20190611



My mom was a house cleaner and worked at a pharmacy part time when I was a kid.  We lived in subsidized housing and she was on welfare.  Guess what? She worked all the time.  She is personable and smart.  The problem isn’t your neighbor.  It is the people hoarding money at the top.


IMG 1592 0

MOTO13 wrote:
As a former fed auditor and been in the acctng world for decades...that is a stupid line of bullshit. The way the gov't accounts for costs...

As a former fed auditor and been in the acctng world for decades...that is a stupid line of bullshit. The way the gov't accounts for costs vs benefits is another league of stupidity all on its own. Job creation and retention has been a boondoggle of bullshit with the feds for decades. Supporting certain businesses with loans and grants based on VERY DUBIOUS employment records by the recipients of the money and the way the gov't allows a retained part time employee as job creation etc. You should believe about 2% of what comes from the government.  You MUST have vast manuf in your country or you at the risk of every other modernized country on the planet. Tariffs are also deterrent. Anyway, like them or not, something should be done just based on the trade imbalances, let alone the financial roadblocks in place to enter other countries markets 

click and follow the link.  It’s a 20 page paper.  Not an op-ed.

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Markopolo400
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4/24/2025 11:48am
Zycki11 wrote:

And the very good patents the government takes from inventor haha 🤣 

I have never personally heard of this.

But I have heard of the government licensing patented things from the inventors, which usually results in $$$ for the inventor.

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Zycki11
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4/24/2025 12:19pm
Zycki11 wrote:

And the very good patents the government takes from inventor haha 🤣 

I have never personally heard of this.But I have heard of the government licensing patented things from the inventors, which usually results in $$$ for the...

I have never personally heard of this.

But I have heard of the government licensing patented things from the inventors, which usually results in $$$ for the inventor.

Right for some of the obvious stuff. Just dig into it and you will be surprised. Quite the little rabbit hole 

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4/24/2025 12:22pm

Real question. If tariffs are so bad, and allegedly cause great harm to citizens, why do so many countries have high tariffs on US goods and block the sale of US goods in their markets through regulatory measures? Please explain.

Could it be that they are protecting their own citizens, companies, and entrepreneurs from being negatively impacted, and their domestic production from being wiped out? Just guessing.

For example. The US charges 2.5% on EU car imports. Meanwhile, the EU levies a 10% tariff on car imports from the US, making American cars unsellable in the EU. The EU also has strict emission and safety regulations that make it near impossible for any US car to be sold in the EU even under the 10% tariff. If tariffs are so bad, why would the EU have such a cunning tariff and regulatory plan like this in place?

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KurtJ99
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4/24/2025 12:25pm

I'd prefer a consistently executed plan for tariff (tools as @Tim507  said. Tighten the screw (tariffs) by hand, but don't break it (the economy). The current plan of taking an impact wrench to the screw, breaking it, then declaring it was all part of the plan is unbelievable. Anyways, the kind of jobs America would want will take years to bring back, if we are committed to it and willing to pay a higher prices for those goods. Guys like Elon are already pushing H1B visas to import skilled workers. I not a fan of the H1B; if you have to pay alot for a skilled worker that would make more Americans go into that line of business from college. Cheapen skilled labor with H1B, and you'll see young people want to do something else. That will accelerate if we bring back jobs that American's don't want or don't have the skills to do. 

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RichieW13
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4/24/2025 12:43pm
Real question. If tariffs are so bad, and allegedly cause great harm to citizens, why do so many countries have high tariffs on US goods and...

Real question. If tariffs are so bad, and allegedly cause great harm to citizens, why do so many countries have high tariffs on US goods and block the sale of US goods in their markets through regulatory measures? Please explain.

Could it be that they are protecting their own citizens, companies, and entrepreneurs from being negatively impacted, and their domestic production from being wiped out? Just guessing.

For example. The US charges 2.5% on EU car imports. Meanwhile, the EU levies a 10% tariff on car imports from the US, making American cars unsellable in the EU. The EU also has strict emission and safety regulations that make it near impossible for any US car to be sold in the EU even under the 10% tariff. If tariffs are so bad, why would the EU have such a cunning tariff and regulatory plan like this in place?

Targeted tariffs can have value.  Trying to protect specific industries that have significant contributions to an economy might have value.  Especially in the short run.  Also, a 10% tariff is an entirely different world from a 140% tariff.


But blanket tariffs, that include goods that a country doesn't even produce, makes much less sense.

I'm not even sure what the point is of Europe tariffing American vehicles.  For the most part they don't want our vehicles because they are generally too big for their roads and use too much gas for their high fuel prices.   

Though I think the Tesla sold pretty well in Europe, despite the tariff.

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JN
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4/24/2025 12:50pm
soggy wrote:
So many people here bag on china and now you want to become like them??  Look at the countries producing and manufacturing a lot of goods...

So many people here bag on china and now you want to become like them??  Look at the countries producing and manufacturing a lot of goods we buy.. you want to be like them?  No thanks, I’m good. 

100%

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4/24/2025 1:10pm
Real question. If tariffs are so bad, and allegedly cause great harm to citizens, why do so many countries have high tariffs on US goods and...

Real question. If tariffs are so bad, and allegedly cause great harm to citizens, why do so many countries have high tariffs on US goods and block the sale of US goods in their markets through regulatory measures? Please explain.

Could it be that they are protecting their own citizens, companies, and entrepreneurs from being negatively impacted, and their domestic production from being wiped out? Just guessing.

For example. The US charges 2.5% on EU car imports. Meanwhile, the EU levies a 10% tariff on car imports from the US, making American cars unsellable in the EU. The EU also has strict emission and safety regulations that make it near impossible for any US car to be sold in the EU even under the 10% tariff. If tariffs are so bad, why would the EU have such a cunning tariff and regulatory plan like this in place?

The biggest issue people have with the Tariffs is that they are being on and off  and back on.  No clear reasoning behind them. Saying that they will be permanent, then saying they are a tool to negotiate favors from other countries, implying that there is a way around them and or that they will be temporary. Saying there will not be any pause, then days later a pause.  It is more the manor of how they are being applied and some of the insanely high amounts that is the issue. Not just tariffs in general.

In this case, they seem to be used as a tool to manipulate the stock market. Allowing the few people who know what is going on to make $$$$ off some well-timed buying and selling.  As well as a tool to destroy the worlds trust and many alliances with the US. And raise the prices of goods by large amounts.   

 

I hope I'm wrong and this works out in the end. I hope that there is some real plan to reduce costs for consumers like he claimed he could do on day one. The big problem is there are a lot of people who will be unable to wait it out and pay higher prices. And companies will close, people will have hard times, may have to wait a few years to retire, assuming the market bounces back and 401K's get some of the lost money back. 

 

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Zycki11
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4/24/2025 1:17pm
Real question. If tariffs are so bad, and allegedly cause great harm to citizens, why do so many countries have high tariffs on US goods and...

Real question. If tariffs are so bad, and allegedly cause great harm to citizens, why do so many countries have high tariffs on US goods and block the sale of US goods in their markets through regulatory measures? Please explain.

Could it be that they are protecting their own citizens, companies, and entrepreneurs from being negatively impacted, and their domestic production from being wiped out? Just guessing.

For example. The US charges 2.5% on EU car imports. Meanwhile, the EU levies a 10% tariff on car imports from the US, making American cars unsellable in the EU. The EU also has strict emission and safety regulations that make it near impossible for any US car to be sold in the EU even under the 10% tariff. If tariffs are so bad, why would the EU have such a cunning tariff and regulatory plan like this in place?

The biggest issue people have with the Tariffs is that they are being on and off  and back on.  No clear reasoning behind them. Saying that...

The biggest issue people have with the Tariffs is that they are being on and off  and back on.  No clear reasoning behind them. Saying that they will be permanent, then saying they are a tool to negotiate favors from other countries, implying that there is a way around them and or that they will be temporary. Saying there will not be any pause, then days later a pause.  It is more the manor of how they are being applied and some of the insanely high amounts that is the issue. Not just tariffs in general.

In this case, they seem to be used as a tool to manipulate the stock market. Allowing the few people who know what is going on to make $$$$ off some well-timed buying and selling.  As well as a tool to destroy the worlds trust and many alliances with the US. And raise the prices of goods by large amounts.   

 

I hope I'm wrong and this works out in the end. I hope that there is some real plan to reduce costs for consumers like he claimed he could do on day one. The big problem is there are a lot of people who will be unable to wait it out and pay higher prices. And companies will close, people will have hard times, may have to wait a few years to retire, assuming the market bounces back and 401K's get some of the lost money back. 

 

Couple things wrong with what you are saying. 

First, the stock market is not tied to the economy but forward thinking. People were absolutely killing it long before Trump came in with insider trading.

Second when it comes to your assumptions they are just that and you are implying quite a lot in your thoughts without proof of anything. 

Tariffs are a tool for better negotiating nothing more.


As a day trader and investor I see it from the market side and what your saying simply is inaccurate and doesn’t hold water. 

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JN
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4/24/2025 1:21pm

Two words, "Market Manipulation" The rich get richer on the backs of the working-class people.

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4/24/2025 1:40pm Edited Date/Time 4/24/2025 1:44pm
Real question. If tariffs are so bad, and allegedly cause great harm to citizens, why do so many countries have high tariffs on US goods and...

Real question. If tariffs are so bad, and allegedly cause great harm to citizens, why do so many countries have high tariffs on US goods and block the sale of US goods in their markets through regulatory measures? Please explain.

Could it be that they are protecting their own citizens, companies, and entrepreneurs from being negatively impacted, and their domestic production from being wiped out? Just guessing.

For example. The US charges 2.5% on EU car imports. Meanwhile, the EU levies a 10% tariff on car imports from the US, making American cars unsellable in the EU. The EU also has strict emission and safety regulations that make it near impossible for any US car to be sold in the EU even under the 10% tariff. If tariffs are so bad, why would the EU have such a cunning tariff and regulatory plan like this in place?

The biggest issue people have with the Tariffs is that they are being on and off  and back on.  No clear reasoning behind them. Saying that...

The biggest issue people have with the Tariffs is that they are being on and off  and back on.  No clear reasoning behind them. Saying that they will be permanent, then saying they are a tool to negotiate favors from other countries, implying that there is a way around them and or that they will be temporary. Saying there will not be any pause, then days later a pause.  It is more the manor of how they are being applied and some of the insanely high amounts that is the issue. Not just tariffs in general.

In this case, they seem to be used as a tool to manipulate the stock market. Allowing the few people who know what is going on to make $$$$ off some well-timed buying and selling.  As well as a tool to destroy the worlds trust and many alliances with the US. And raise the prices of goods by large amounts.   

 

I hope I'm wrong and this works out in the end. I hope that there is some real plan to reduce costs for consumers like he claimed he could do on day one. The big problem is there are a lot of people who will be unable to wait it out and pay higher prices. And companies will close, people will have hard times, may have to wait a few years to retire, assuming the market bounces back and 401K's get some of the lost money back. 

 

Zycki11 wrote:
Couple things wrong with what you are saying. First, the stock market is not tied to the economy but forward thinking. People were absolutely killing it long...

Couple things wrong with what you are saying. 

First, the stock market is not tied to the economy but forward thinking. People were absolutely killing it long before Trump came in with insider trading.

Second when it comes to your assumptions they are just that and you are implying quite a lot in your thoughts without proof of anything. 

Tariffs are a tool for better negotiating nothing more.


As a day trader and investor I see it from the market side and what your saying simply is inaccurate and doesn’t hold water. 

So yah, of course there has been insider trading forever. So who cares right?  Otherwise, there wouldn't be a term for it.

 I saw that there are allegations that there has been some insider trading done by a politician close to trump on the news the other day.   

My Dad lost a ton of money from his 401K when the market crashed in 2008. He wasn't able to work long enough to see it recover and retired with almost half of what he had before the crash. I realize that the market ups and downs are not direct reflections of the general economy. But a lot of people use them as indicators. And it sure impacted my Dad's ability to buy stuff. 

 

Trump has been making decisions about the pause of tariffs, or he has said that is why. Based on the market and bond trading.  

Why has the reasoning changed so many times if tariffs are a tool for negotiation?  Couldn't the threat of tariffs have done the same thing without the big downs and ups in the market?  

 

 When they have a different reason for the tariffs to be in place or paused, or raised, etc. every other day, it makes it hard for me to trust that there is a plan. To me it all looks like its reactions to whatever happens and not a well thought out plan. The explanations that are given always changing is sending out a confusing message.   

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4/24/2025 1:44pm
Real question. If tariffs are so bad, and allegedly cause great harm to citizens, why do so many countries have high tariffs on US goods and...

Real question. If tariffs are so bad, and allegedly cause great harm to citizens, why do so many countries have high tariffs on US goods and block the sale of US goods in their markets through regulatory measures? Please explain.

Could it be that they are protecting their own citizens, companies, and entrepreneurs from being negatively impacted, and their domestic production from being wiped out? Just guessing.

For example. The US charges 2.5% on EU car imports. Meanwhile, the EU levies a 10% tariff on car imports from the US, making American cars unsellable in the EU. The EU also has strict emission and safety regulations that make it near impossible for any US car to be sold in the EU even under the 10% tariff. If tariffs are so bad, why would the EU have such a cunning tariff and regulatory plan like this in place?

RichieW13 wrote:
Targeted tariffs can have value.  Trying to protect specific industries that have significant contributions to an economy might have value.  Especially in the short run.  Also...

Targeted tariffs can have value.  Trying to protect specific industries that have significant contributions to an economy might have value.  Especially in the short run.  Also, a 10% tariff is an entirely different world from a 140% tariff.


But blanket tariffs, that include goods that a country doesn't even produce, makes much less sense.

I'm not even sure what the point is of Europe tariffing American vehicles.  For the most part they don't want our vehicles because they are generally too big for their roads and use too much gas for their high fuel prices.   

Though I think the Tesla sold pretty well in Europe, despite the tariff.

Your hypothesis that “they don’t want our vehicles” can’t be tested because the playing field isn’t fair. It isn’t fair because the EU won’t allow it to be. Why do you think that is? Clearly they aren’t as confident as you are that their people wouldn’t want our vehicles.

If the playing field was fair, it’s more likely that American manufacturers would expand and build models to European specs, much like Japan does by creating left drivers side and larger vehicles for sale in the US. Additional American factories would need to be built out of necessity, leading to job creation and an increase in GDP.


Teslas sold well in the EU because Teslas conveniently work around the EU’s strict regulations and they are expensive enough to absorb the high tariff. Currently, Tesla Sales in the EU are in sharp decline, though, because the EU generally speaking hates Elon’s political stance and the leadership is supportive of boycotts against Tesla. Suppose the US leaders inspired boycotts of foreign companies if they didn’t like the CEO’s political views? Would that be a good thing?
 

1
3
Tim507
Posts
3472
Joined
6/8/2010
Location
Oregon City, OR US
4/24/2025 2:20pm

I appreciate the discussion, truly.

Some of you are focused on the on/off nature of tariffs. Fair point. It’s been messy—maybe by design. Confusion can be part of the reveal.

You’re right to question the inconsistency. But maybe that’s the whole point. If the old system was clean and rational, we wouldn't be having this thread. The enemy—whatever name resonates with you—doesn’t operate with consistency or transparency. So if we don’t like what’s being forced on us... should we, or Trump, not play their game back at them? Trumps style is unorthodox, no argument here!!

Trump didn’t follow the expected script—and that rattled the system. Same with tariffs. They’re not supposed to make sense within the old framework. They’re meant to crack it open.

What if the chaos is the plan?
What if it’s not about controlling markets… but freeing them?
Not about patching the sinking ship… but building a new one beside it?

I’m not here to convince anyone. But I do believe we’re witnessing a shift that’s way bigger than bread, bikes, and the price of boots.

What we choose to see… determines what we help create.
That’s the real economy.

Take a moment to look into what Trump has said about “The Great Awakening.” That phrase isn’t just politics—it’s about us showing up.
Same with “What is coming can’t be stopped.”
That’s not a threat. That’s a promise. And it’s about us, the people.

It takes a worldwide collective effort to create a shift this big.
This isn’t just a U.S. thing. It’s a planetary reset.
A wake-up call for all.

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12
jaybasher
Posts
294
Joined
9/4/2024
Location
Oxnard , CA US
4/24/2025 2:27pm Edited Date/Time 4/24/2025 2:28pm

After years of BS unfair tariffs, we offered to negotiate a more fair deal. China flipped us off and walked away. The country whos people are willing to suffer discomfort due to tariffs the longest has an advantage. If people in China speak out, they will be run over by a tank on a city street. Here in the US the soft citizens may not have the guts my Grandpa did in WWII. Fuck China.

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4/24/2025 2:27pm
Your hypothesis that “they don’t want our vehicles” can’t be tested because the playing field isn’t fair. It isn’t fair because the EU won’t allow it...

Your hypothesis that “they don’t want our vehicles” can’t be tested because the playing field isn’t fair. It isn’t fair because the EU won’t allow it to be. Why do you think that is? Clearly they aren’t as confident as you are that their people wouldn’t want our vehicles.

If the playing field was fair, it’s more likely that American manufacturers would expand and build models to European specs, much like Japan does by creating left drivers side and larger vehicles for sale in the US. Additional American factories would need to be built out of necessity, leading to job creation and an increase in GDP.


Teslas sold well in the EU because Teslas conveniently work around the EU’s strict regulations and they are expensive enough to absorb the high tariff. Currently, Tesla Sales in the EU are in sharp decline, though, because the EU generally speaking hates Elon’s political stance and the leadership is supportive of boycotts against Tesla. Suppose the US leaders inspired boycotts of foreign companies if they didn’t like the CEO’s political views? Would that be a good thing?
 

It would be one thing if people were boycotting Tesla because of Elon's political views, but it's not just his political views, it's his actions that people are boycotting. That and him being a Nazi. Elon is learning that actions have consequences, and now he's crying about it.   

16
10
RichieW13
Posts
2397
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
4/24/2025 2:33pm Edited Date/Time 4/24/2025 3:10pm
Tim507 wrote:
I appreciate the discussion, truly.Some of you are focused on the on/off nature of tariffs. Fair point. It’s been messy—maybe by design. Confusion can be part...

I appreciate the discussion, truly.

Some of you are focused on the on/off nature of tariffs. Fair point. It’s been messy—maybe by design. Confusion can be part of the reveal.

You’re right to question the inconsistency. But maybe that’s the whole point. If the old system was clean and rational, we wouldn't be having this thread. The enemy—whatever name resonates with you—doesn’t operate with consistency or transparency. So if we don’t like what’s being forced on us... should we, or Trump, not play their game back at them? Trumps style is unorthodox, no argument here!!

Trump didn’t follow the expected script—and that rattled the system. Same with tariffs. They’re not supposed to make sense within the old framework. They’re meant to crack it open.

What if the chaos is the plan?
What if it’s not about controlling markets… but freeing them?
Not about patching the sinking ship… but building a new one beside it?

I’m not here to convince anyone. But I do believe we’re witnessing a shift that’s way bigger than bread, bikes, and the price of boots.

What we choose to see… determines what we help create.
That’s the real economy.

Take a moment to look into what Trump has said about “The Great Awakening.” That phrase isn’t just politics—it’s about us showing up.
Same with “What is coming can’t be stopped.”
That’s not a threat. That’s a promise. And it’s about us, the people.

It takes a worldwide collective effort to create a shift this big.
This isn’t just a U.S. thing. It’s a planetary reset.
A wake-up call for all.

The effort some of you make to defend Trump is mesmerizing.  And the goalpost moving.  Originally, tariffs were about what's best for America.  But now you're hoping it's good for the world? 

 

I can't imagine a scenario where confusion and inconsistency about tariffs is going to be good for the average American, or the small business owner.  


Businesses can't operate to maximum efficiency if they have no clue what the tariff rate might be (if any) 6 months from now.

 

And apparently, Trump is giving Wall Street executives inside info about upcoming negotiations with India.  Is that good for us?  

https://www.newsbreak.com/mediaite-520570/3977289002772-fox-reporter-sa…

16
8
DaveNoones
Posts
154
Joined
6/3/2024
Location
Edwardsville, IL US
4/24/2025 2:36pm Edited Date/Time 4/24/2025 2:39pm
lumpy790 wrote:
Motorcycle Industry Council on tariffs. If you work in the USA’s MC Industry you know who the MIC is.https://www.micsymposium.com/_files/ugd/5e5627_cb8a95c3588c4c7d9031812fca110e91.pdf

Motorcycle Industry Council on tariffs. 

If you work in the USA’s MC Industry you know who the MIC is.

https://www.micsymposium.com/_files/ugd/5e5627_cb8a95c3588c4c7d9031812fca110e91.pdf

IMG 1236 1.jpeg?VersionId=H7IQKYto7TaBFvFQaB8Buiz

FAKE NEWS,

Lots of tariffs have happened and all involved have absorbed all or some of costs, i work for Bmw and know all about tarrifs

 

If you charge the Usa a vat tax or tarrifs to keep us from entering your market like canadas over 300% dairy tarrifs to keep us out

we have never tarrifed some of these countries anywhere near the tarrifs they charge us.

China
 
84%
Lesotho
 
50%
Saint Pierre and Miquelon
 
50%
Cambodia
 
49%
Laos
 
48%
Madagascar
 
47%
Vietnam
 
46%
Sri Lanka
 
44%
Myanmar (Burma)
 
44%
Falkland Islands
 
42%
Syria
 
41%
Mauritius
 
40%
Iraq
 
39%
Botswana
 
38%
Guyana
 
38%
Bangladesh
 
37%
Serbia
 
37%
Liechtenstein
 
37%
Reunion
 
37%
Thailand
 
36%
Bosnia and Herzegovina
 
36%
North Macedonia
 
33%
Taiwan
 
32%
Indonesia
 
32%
Angola
 
32%
Fiji
 
32%
Switzerland
 
31%
Libya
 
31%
Moldova
 
31%
South Africa
 
30%
Nauru
 
30%
Algeria
 
30%
Pakistan
 
29%
Norfolk Island
 
29%
Tunisia
 
28%
Kazakhstan
 
27%
India
 
27%
South Korea
 
25%
Japan
 
24%
Malaysia
 
24%
Brunei
 
24%
Vanuatu
 
23%
Cote d'Ivoire
 
21%
Namibia
 
21%
European Union
 
20%
Jordan
 
20%
Nicaragua
 
18%
Zimbabwe
 
18%
Malawi
 
18%
Israel
 
17%
Philippines
 
17%
Zambia
 
17%
Mozambique
 
16%
Norway
 
16%
Venezuela
 
15%
Nigeria
 
14%
Chad
 
13%
Equatorial Guinea
 
13%
Cameroon
 
12%
Democratic Republic of the Congo
 
11%

 

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4/24/2025 2:49pm Edited Date/Time 4/24/2025 2:54pm
DaveNoones wrote:
FAKE NEWS,Lots of tariffs have happened and all involved have absorbed all or some of costs, i work for Bmw and know all about tarrifs If you...

FAKE NEWS,

Lots of tariffs have happened and all involved have absorbed all or some of costs, i work for Bmw and know all about tarrifs

 

If you charge the Usa a vat tax or tarrifs to keep us from entering your market like canadas over 300% dairy tarrifs to keep us out

we have never tarrifed some of these countries anywhere near the tarrifs they charge us.

China
 
84%
Lesotho
 
50%
Saint Pierre and Miquelon
 
50%
Cambodia
 
49%
Laos
 
48%
Madagascar
 
47%
Vietnam
 
46%
Sri Lanka
 
44%
Myanmar (Burma)
 
44%
Falkland Islands
 
42%
Syria
 
41%
Mauritius
 
40%
Iraq
 
39%
Botswana
 
38%
Guyana
 
38%
Bangladesh
 
37%
Serbia
 
37%
Liechtenstein
 
37%
Reunion
 
37%
Thailand
 
36%
Bosnia and Herzegovina
 
36%
North Macedonia
 
33%
Taiwan
 
32%
Indonesia
 
32%
Angola
 
32%
Fiji
 
32%
Switzerland
 
31%
Libya
 
31%
Moldova
 
31%
South Africa
 
30%
Nauru
 
30%
Algeria
 
30%
Pakistan
 
29%
Norfolk Island
 
29%
Tunisia
 
28%
Kazakhstan
 
27%
India
 
27%
South Korea
 
25%
Japan
 
24%
Malaysia
 
24%
Brunei
 
24%
Vanuatu
 
23%
Cote d'Ivoire
 
21%
Namibia
 
21%
European Union
 
20%
Jordan
 
20%
Nicaragua
 
18%
Zimbabwe
 
18%
Malawi
 
18%
Israel
 
17%
Philippines
 
17%
Zambia
 
17%
Mozambique
 
16%
Norway
 
16%
Venezuela
 
15%
Nigeria
 
14%
Chad
 
13%
Equatorial Guinea
 
13%
Cameroon
 
12%
Democratic Republic of the Congo
 
11%

 

VAT is not a tariff. It is applied to all goods, irrespective of origin. It is just a national sales tax.

15
2
4/24/2025 3:00pm
Well to be fare , Musk is against the tariffs and many have pointed out that if Trump had  just put his money he inherited into...

Well to be fare , Musk is against the tariffs and many have pointed out that if Trump had  just put his money he inherited into some sort of interest paying account instead of all of the businesses he has ran and lost money on, he would be ahead of where he is now. 

 

How will using the Tariffs to negotiate with other countries help those Factories be built here so You can source the stuff You need from a US company?  After the Tariffs go away will the US provide giant tax incentives  to keep them here? Costing more in lost taxes than the jobs provided often pay. 

 

I would love to see more stuff made here. 2 or 3 years is not long enough to get that to happen though. If we are talking about building NEW factories  and bringing industries to the US that have not been here.  You would be lucky to build  the building for the factory in that amount of time. Its not going to happen quickly enough to do, without having the majority of people willing to suffer and sacrifice for it to happen. They will get voted out before anything happens.

 

 Even if China drops their Tariff's to 0 on goods imported to China from the US, and the US dose the same. How will that help keep those shiny new Factories open?  The messaging about what Trump want to accomplish with tariffs is all over the place and seems to be more of a stock market scam than any real plan.

TbonesPop wrote:
Direct quotes from Musk on tariffs.  Not as cut and dry as you try to point out.Elon Musk said on Tuesday that he doesn't like...

Direct quotes from Musk on tariffs.  Not as cut and dry as you try to point out.

Elon Musk said on Tuesday that he doesn't like high or unpredictable tariffs, but any decision on what happens with them "is entirely up to the president of the United States."

He added that he's an advocate for "predictable tariff structures," as well as "free trade and lower tariffs."

Musk also said, "If some country is doing something predatory with tariffs," or "if a government is providing extreme financial support for a particular industry, then you have to do something to counteract that."

Most of you guys are just Ef'ing liberals and are anti-Trump.  You'll never get it.  Not worth arguing about it.  Feel free to reply, but know I won't be reading it.  Just wasting key strokes.  2 years from now, US economy will be far better off.

I've set my google calendar to reach back around in 2 years time. I'm sure by then 100's of manufacturers will have built facilities for everything the US needs at home.

8
1
4/24/2025 3:07pm
lumpy790 wrote:
Motorcycle Industry Council on tariffs. If you work in the USA’s MC Industry you know who the MIC is.https://www.micsymposium.com/_files/ugd/5e5627_cb8a95c3588c4c7d9031812fca110e91.pdf

Motorcycle Industry Council on tariffs. 

If you work in the USA’s MC Industry you know who the MIC is.

https://www.micsymposium.com/_files/ugd/5e5627_cb8a95c3588c4c7d9031812fca110e91.pdf

IMG 1236 1.jpeg?VersionId=H7IQKYto7TaBFvFQaB8Buiz
I think the Tariffs are a great thing. for way to long America has gotten screwed. I grew up near Bridgeport CT  and this was a...

I think the Tariffs are a great thing. for way to long America has gotten screwed. I grew up near Bridgeport CT  and this was a manufacturing Hub for the world. A company that comes to mind is Bridgeport Machine all of you know of a bridgeport milling machine and I remember going to the auction this building was so big it was its own city and sitting in a part of the shop was China made shit.  I was sick to my stomach all because Clinton sold us down the tubes. So I am pleased to see this happening I manufacture parts all made in America and I have to say it feels great. Sure there will be some pain but shit we all race and know all about pain and its only temporary 

 

I also grew up in CT and agree with you. But I would say it’s Americans that have been getting screwed. America and the elites that own this country have sold us out. The democrats and republicans all the way down the line have gutted our country in order to enrich themselves and destroy the middle class. 

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2

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