Imagine being Honda

Kenny Lingus
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1088
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9/9/2016
Location
Watkins Glen, NY, USA
1/12/2025 9:42am

With them checking frames in tech now, and how much praise the Larry bros were giving the '25, can't help but wonder if Honda has been skirting the rules a bit? Either way I'm sure the head engineer over there, Dazzy, will have it all straightened out soon.

I'm still getting one in the spring though.

7
3
brandonshaw
Posts
102
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4/9/2024
Location
Murray, KY, USA
1/12/2025 9:48am
While Jett didn't look 100% happy with the bike he was still capable of winning last night IMO, seems like the second crash in the whoops...

While Jett didn't look 100% happy with the bike he was still capable of winning last night IMO, seems like the second crash in the whoops just really tweaked the bike as after that he didn't look aggressive.  Hunter didn't look comfortable at all though.  The starts did not look good though, makes me wonder what they lost by giving up the works ECUs

Why did they change ECUs?

2
DPR250R
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2188
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Location
USA
1/12/2025 10:04am
M1000 wrote:

Jet went from Jett last (22) to 11. Tomac from 15-5. 

bama205 wrote:

Tomac was dead last wasn’t he? I know he was behind Jett after he got up

Yes … Jett passed Tomac and put him in last at least for a little bit. 

No hope ozi
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69
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Location
sammamish, WA, USA
1/12/2025 10:13am

More Bycol Dazza. Maybe a new hoe while your down at Bunnings. While your there show the boys the new barrows!

1
5

The Shop

wrc777
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Greenwood, IN, USA
1/12/2025 10:22am
Pop Shmoke wrote:
and winning everything there is to win over and over and over and even having a perfect rookie season….. and then just throwing that whole bike...

and winning everything there is to win over and over and over and even having a perfect rookie season….. and then just throwing that whole bike in the trash. Same exact thing KTM did a few years ago which trashed webb and christian craigs seasons. Why do these manufacturers do this? Obviously the bike didnt make jett hit the tough block and his result in this race was all due to mistakes he made, but Im talking more about the new bike and how hes uncomfortable as hell and making mistakes all over the place and not confident. What is the point of them always changing everything and then chasing their asses for a few years until they figure it out again? 

Going back to keefers test of the 07 crf450 he said that is STILL the best chassis of all time. So if they had just kept the chassis and kept improving the engine and suspension theyd be golden and saved millions of dollars of money and headache. Is it just because theyre paying a bunch of engineers and have R&D departments and so they always just have to change things just to change them? Id imagine the R&D isnt allowed to say yea the chassis is actually pretty good our job is done for years. Why not tho? Its a valid question. Seems crazy that these brands always get something good going and then change it all just to change it. 

All that being said tho shout out to chase. He hated the ktm too but its been a few years now and he looks strong as hell. If hes comfortable now and he hasnt had front end issues since the honda hes gonna be an absolute monster to go up against. Jett definitely is gonna make it interesting trykng to close the gap for the rest of the season. Definitely makes it more interesting. 

-Also shimoda did seem to like the 250 so not all bad for honda, but damn. 

soggy wrote:

This is the argument against the production rule. 

Nothing is stopping Honda from running the 2024 frame. 

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3
yak651
Posts
9093
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Appleton, WI, USA
1/12/2025 10:32am
While Jett didn't look 100% happy with the bike he was still capable of winning last night IMO, seems like the second crash in the whoops...

While Jett didn't look 100% happy with the bike he was still capable of winning last night IMO, seems like the second crash in the whoops just really tweaked the bike as after that he didn't look aggressive.  Hunter didn't look comfortable at all though.  The starts did not look good though, makes me wonder what they lost by giving up the works ECUs

Why did they change ECUs?

No kidding, their start maps we’re head and shoulders above everyone else, mind blowing to think “yeah this is working great, let’s throw that out”

6
BigBoreFan58
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966
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Location
Beverly Hills, CA, USA
1/12/2025 10:36am
They change the bike so they can sell them to the average Joe. It's capitalism. We always want the latest and greatest, even if it ain't...

They change the bike so they can sell them to the average Joe. It's capitalism. We always want the latest and greatest, even if it ain't better. 

Magoofan wrote:

...and yet somehow that "dinosaur" Suzuki is still kicking ass.

I love it.

 

It's a great bike obviously, but do they sell a lot of them? Nobody on here wants one.

 

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2
soggy
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Location
USA
1/12/2025 10:41am Edited Date/Time 1/12/2025 10:45am
Pop Shmoke wrote:
and winning everything there is to win over and over and over and even having a perfect rookie season….. and then just throwing that whole bike...

and winning everything there is to win over and over and over and even having a perfect rookie season….. and then just throwing that whole bike in the trash. Same exact thing KTM did a few years ago which trashed webb and christian craigs seasons. Why do these manufacturers do this? Obviously the bike didnt make jett hit the tough block and his result in this race was all due to mistakes he made, but Im talking more about the new bike and how hes uncomfortable as hell and making mistakes all over the place and not confident. What is the point of them always changing everything and then chasing their asses for a few years until they figure it out again? 

Going back to keefers test of the 07 crf450 he said that is STILL the best chassis of all time. So if they had just kept the chassis and kept improving the engine and suspension theyd be golden and saved millions of dollars of money and headache. Is it just because theyre paying a bunch of engineers and have R&D departments and so they always just have to change things just to change them? Id imagine the R&D isnt allowed to say yea the chassis is actually pretty good our job is done for years. Why not tho? Its a valid question. Seems crazy that these brands always get something good going and then change it all just to change it. 

All that being said tho shout out to chase. He hated the ktm too but its been a few years now and he looks strong as hell. If hes comfortable now and he hasnt had front end issues since the honda hes gonna be an absolute monster to go up against. Jett definitely is gonna make it interesting trykng to close the gap for the rest of the season. Definitely makes it more interesting. 

-Also shimoda did seem to like the 250 so not all bad for honda, but damn. 

soggy wrote:

This is the argument against the production rule. 

wrc777 wrote:

Nothing is stopping Honda from running the 2024 frame. 

also true.

but teams are reluctant to do that because it makes the new gen look worse from a purely marketing perspective.  racing is a very expensive ad campaign after all. Whether the brands would suffer from going back to a works rule is debatable (I say no).  I'm sure they will improve the bike throughout the year.  Its over reaction sunday i guess.

2
1
dog_lover_136
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2898
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Location
Riverside, CA, USA
1/12/2025 10:43am
Hoping the Lawrence’s don’t leave Honda because of this struggle, I heard those Dryft scooters from Race Day Live are offering them money you can’t refuse...

Hoping the Lawrence’s don’t leave Honda because of this struggle, I heard those Dryft scooters from Race Day Live are offering them money you can’t refuse leave Honda build Dryft’s platform from the ground upIMG 0608 1

I find it absolutely insane that the dryft scooter thing is $3,500!!!

8
captmoto
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Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA, USA
1/12/2025 12:03pm
Ask Suzuki how it’s working out for them sales wise. You’re totally valid in your points, but the same thing year after year doesn’t get people...

Ask Suzuki how it’s working out for them sales wise. You’re totally valid in your points, but the same thing year after year doesn’t get people excited about buying a new bike. Then again, neither does finishing outside the top 10. 

And to get a Suzuki to run like a Yam or KYM takes boomer level money. Would start hearing from the poors all about it.

1
7
sandtrack315
Posts
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Location
Philadelphia, PA, USA
1/12/2025 3:12pm

Honda made a better stock bike for their customers. Would you prefer they only make bikes for Jett?

1
1
Magoofan
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Location
Shadow Glen (for those who remember), CA, USA
1/12/2025 4:22pm
They change the bike so they can sell them to the average Joe. It's capitalism. We always want the latest and greatest, even if it ain't...

They change the bike so they can sell them to the average Joe. It's capitalism. We always want the latest and greatest, even if it ain't better. 

Magoofan wrote:

...and yet somehow that "dinosaur" Suzuki is still kicking ass.

I love it.

 

It's a great bike obviously, but do they sell a lot of them? Nobody on here wants one.

 

Seems like there are a number of people on here who own and are happy with them.           .... and it's still WAY more bike than the vast majority of people here can utilize to it's full potential.      

Plus, I wonder how many people don't buy them because of the "negative" vibe put out by so many here.   Kinda like when mom sent you to school in Sears Toughskins instead of Wranglers...   Both good products....but "stigma" and all. Wink         Yeah, I wore Toughskins! 🤣

I'd buy a Zook if I were in that market.        Not to mention...IMNSHO....the Suzuki is the best looking bike out there.    Yellow FTW.  

 

6
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TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA, USA
1/12/2025 4:37pm

All last year we were told this is the chassis the Lawrence bros wanted.  And how much they were involved in the development.  

In the perfect Gypsy Tales tone….

“Dude, that’s….like…so…(rips a long hit)…harsh, bro. You…like…(rips another hit)…TOTALLY harshed my mellow, bro!”

7
2
soggy
Posts
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Location
USA
1/12/2025 5:10pm

I get the feeling its more suspension related. I remember them switching back to and old spec showa setup early last year that they had to lobby for. could see them not having that option this year

1
1
bigk218
Posts
1466
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1/2/2018
Location
Summerville, SC, USA
1/12/2025 5:14pm

Weird Jo's bike looked good. The Huntah Bros' looked like dogshit 

Jo looked good but it didn’t look like he was able to charge.  The heat race where he had to push it didn’t look great. 

3
1/12/2025 5:34pm Edited Date/Time 1/12/2025 5:36pm
soggy wrote:

This is the argument against the production rule. 

wrc777 wrote:

Nothing is stopping Honda from running the 2024 frame. 

soggy wrote:
also true.but teams are reluctant to do that because it makes the new gen look worse from a purely marketing perspective.  racing is a very expensive...

also true.

but teams are reluctant to do that because it makes the new gen look worse from a purely marketing perspective.  racing is a very expensive ad campaign after all. Whether the brands would suffer from going back to a works rule is debatable (I say no).  I'm sure they will improve the bike throughout the year.  Its over reaction sunday i guess.

There's more visual (and functional) difference between the custom gussets teams already run on frames, than between those two model years.

That's weird, irrelevant shit for Vitards, not the general purchasing public.

Village Idiot
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MXoN - a term used by newbs, goobs and rubes, PW, USA
1/12/2025 6:05pm
Magoofan wrote:

...and yet somehow that "dinosaur" Suzuki is still kicking ass.

I love it.

 

It's a great bike obviously, but do they sell a lot of them? Nobody on here wants one.

 

Magoofan wrote:
Seems like there are a number of people on here who own and are happy with them.           .... and it's still...

Seems like there are a number of people on here who own and are happy with them.           .... and it's still WAY more bike than the vast majority of people here can utilize to it's full potential.      

Plus, I wonder how many people don't buy them because of the "negative" vibe put out by so many here.   Kinda like when mom sent you to school in Sears Toughskins instead of Wranglers...   Both good products....but "stigma" and all. Wink         Yeah, I wore Toughskins! 🤣

I'd buy a Zook if I were in that market.        Not to mention...IMNSHO....the Suzuki is the best looking bike out there.    Yellow FTW.  

 

You know, here I was, relaxing while having some dinner and reading all the IQ-draining posts on Vital, just winding down... and then someone had to go and mention Toughskins jeans... and trigger instant PTSD.  😲

Going to school with rich kids when the craze was Levi's with the cuff rolled at the bottom and having to wear Toughskins was akin to having NERD tatooed on your forehead. Stigma is putting it mildly. 😢

Thanks sooooo much for the memories! 😆

6
BogDogPenny
Posts
54
Joined
2/7/2021
Location
La Habra, CA, USA
1/12/2025 6:24pm
Pop Shmoke wrote:
and winning everything there is to win over and over and over and even having a perfect rookie season….. and then just throwing that whole bike...

and winning everything there is to win over and over and over and even having a perfect rookie season….. and then just throwing that whole bike in the trash. Same exact thing KTM did a few years ago which trashed webb and christian craigs seasons. Why do these manufacturers do this? Obviously the bike didnt make jett hit the tough block and his result in this race was all due to mistakes he made, but Im talking more about the new bike and how hes uncomfortable as hell and making mistakes all over the place and not confident. What is the point of them always changing everything and then chasing their asses for a few years until they figure it out again? 

Going back to keefers test of the 07 crf450 he said that is STILL the best chassis of all time. So if they had just kept the chassis and kept improving the engine and suspension theyd be golden and saved millions of dollars of money and headache. Is it just because theyre paying a bunch of engineers and have R&D departments and so they always just have to change things just to change them? Id imagine the R&D isnt allowed to say yea the chassis is actually pretty good our job is done for years. Why not tho? Its a valid question. Seems crazy that these brands always get something good going and then change it all just to change it. 

All that being said tho shout out to chase. He hated the ktm too but its been a few years now and he looks strong as hell. If hes comfortable now and he hasnt had front end issues since the honda hes gonna be an absolute monster to go up against. Jett definitely is gonna make it interesting trykng to close the gap for the rest of the season. Definitely makes it more interesting. 

-Also shimoda did seem to like the 250 so not all bad for honda, but damn. 

Honda has done this in the past! The 1997 CR 250. Jeremy quit instead of riding that pos.

I'm shocked because I thought Jett and Hunter had given input on the new bike.

2
BS12
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1118
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Location
AU
1/12/2025 6:39pm

The bike looked great in Q2 where a couple slip ups is all that prevented Jett going P1 and the only rider into the 1:02's all day. Hunter went 7th I believe?

Hunter came to life with aggression and speed defending Tomac in the heat. Bike looked fine there. 

Obviously the track changes during the evening, but its hard to believe HRC missed the set up by that much in the main. Jett's main snowballed, but was very weird to see him just riding around for the majority of it unless something bent up or he banged himself up. Hunter was just an also ran. Weird. 

See what SD brings. 

2
BogDogPenny
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54
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Location
La Habra, CA, USA
1/12/2025 6:40pm
15th and last….. 

15th and last…..

 IMG 0351 0

Another situation where you need to believe your eyes, not what is on the board. Jett went by Tomac as Eli was picking up his bike. Tomac was in last place at that moment.

2
1
DownSouth
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9969
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Location
Tallapoosa, GA, USA
1/12/2025 6:44pm

It's a great bike obviously, but do they sell a lot of them? Nobody on here wants one.

 

Magoofan wrote:
Seems like there are a number of people on here who own and are happy with them.           .... and it's still...

Seems like there are a number of people on here who own and are happy with them.           .... and it's still WAY more bike than the vast majority of people here can utilize to it's full potential.      

Plus, I wonder how many people don't buy them because of the "negative" vibe put out by so many here.   Kinda like when mom sent you to school in Sears Toughskins instead of Wranglers...   Both good products....but "stigma" and all. Wink         Yeah, I wore Toughskins! 🤣

I'd buy a Zook if I were in that market.        Not to mention...IMNSHO....the Suzuki is the best looking bike out there.    Yellow FTW.  

 

You know, here I was, relaxing while having some dinner and reading all the IQ-draining posts on Vital, just winding down... and then someone had to...

You know, here I was, relaxing while having some dinner and reading all the IQ-draining posts on Vital, just winding down... and then someone had to go and mention Toughskins jeans... and trigger instant PTSD.  😲

Going to school with rich kids when the craze was Levi's with the cuff rolled at the bottom and having to wear Toughskins was akin to having NERD tatooed on your forehead. Stigma is putting it mildly. 😢

Thanks sooooo much for the memories! 😆

It was even worse if you had to sport some Trax sneakers from Kmart with your toughskins.

1
BogDogPenny
Posts
54
Joined
2/7/2021
Location
La Habra, CA, USA
1/12/2025 6:46pm
Magoofan wrote:
I haven't seen a choke that bad since Game of Thrones.... 

I haven't seen a choke that bad since Game of Thrones....

choke-choking-814873557.gif?VersionId=uKZtomKnSoKzye4azTAwEgCd8MTiPh

 

I saw Jetts press day interviews. He looked like he hadnt slept in a year. he wasnt talking righjt. I saw he didnt have a speed...

I saw Jetts press day interviews. He looked like he hadnt slept in a year. he wasnt talking righjt. I saw he didnt have a speed advantage in quali. I messaged my son and said that Jett aint winning today, 

I am worried about Jetts head space right now. I am also worried he is turning into stewart where he quit alot. Jett quit in paris. He quit in Aus . He quit tonight. 

Sounds like I am a hater. The opposite. he is goijng to win this title. Just needs to get his head on straight. (bike does look shit, But Jett will be fine)

Tomac, Sexton and Web say he isn't winning the Championship 

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2
1/12/2025 6:46pm
With them checking frames in tech now, and how much praise the Larry bros were giving the '25, can't help but wonder if Honda has been...

With them checking frames in tech now, and how much praise the Larry bros were giving the '25, can't help but wonder if Honda has been skirting the rules a bit? Either way I'm sure the head engineer over there, Dazzy, will have it all straightened out soon.

I'm still getting one in the spring though.

Who said they are checking frames in tech now?

Village Idiot
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MXoN - a term used by newbs, goobs and rubes, PW, USA
1/12/2025 6:52pm
Magoofan wrote:
Seems like there are a number of people on here who own and are happy with them.           .... and it's still...

Seems like there are a number of people on here who own and are happy with them.           .... and it's still WAY more bike than the vast majority of people here can utilize to it's full potential.      

Plus, I wonder how many people don't buy them because of the "negative" vibe put out by so many here.   Kinda like when mom sent you to school in Sears Toughskins instead of Wranglers...   Both good products....but "stigma" and all. Wink         Yeah, I wore Toughskins! 🤣

I'd buy a Zook if I were in that market.        Not to mention...IMNSHO....the Suzuki is the best looking bike out there.    Yellow FTW.  

 

You know, here I was, relaxing while having some dinner and reading all the IQ-draining posts on Vital, just winding down... and then someone had to...

You know, here I was, relaxing while having some dinner and reading all the IQ-draining posts on Vital, just winding down... and then someone had to go and mention Toughskins jeans... and trigger instant PTSD.  😲

Going to school with rich kids when the craze was Levi's with the cuff rolled at the bottom and having to wear Toughskins was akin to having NERD tatooed on your forehead. Stigma is putting it mildly. 😢

Thanks sooooo much for the memories! 😆

DownSouth wrote:

It was even worse if you had to sport some Trax sneakers from Kmart with your toughskins.

You sound like you lived in the closet of my youth... and it's creeping me out!  😄

Can't a guy have some secrets? 🙃

3
Chris_Buehler
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8762
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Location
PORTLAND, CT, USA
1/12/2025 7:13pm

Jett had a bad race. A very bad race. The sky is falling. Would anyone be surprised to see him yard everyone next round? 

3
Money
Posts
1954
Joined
1/18/2011
Location
Fresno, CA, USA
1/12/2025 7:22pm
With them checking frames in tech now, and how much praise the Larry bros were giving the '25, can't help but wonder if Honda has been...

With them checking frames in tech now, and how much praise the Larry bros were giving the '25, can't help but wonder if Honda has been skirting the rules a bit? Either way I'm sure the head engineer over there, Dazzy, will have it all straightened out soon.

I'm still getting one in the spring though.

Who said they are checking frames in tech now?

AMA doesn’t check worth a damn there a joke of technical inspections 

1
1
wfopete
Posts
496
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7/27/2015
Location
Dover, AR, USA
1/12/2025 7:29pm

Six Honda 450's entered and 11th place was the best they could do.

Next weekend we will probably see six 450 Hondas in the top ten.

Magoofan
Posts
10401
Joined
5/4/2021
Location
Shadow Glen (for those who remember), CA, USA
1/12/2025 7:33pm
You know, here I was, relaxing while having some dinner and reading all the IQ-draining posts on Vital, just winding down... and then someone had to...

You know, here I was, relaxing while having some dinner and reading all the IQ-draining posts on Vital, just winding down... and then someone had to go and mention Toughskins jeans... and trigger instant PTSD.  😲

Going to school with rich kids when the craze was Levi's with the cuff rolled at the bottom and having to wear Toughskins was akin to having NERD tatooed on your forehead. Stigma is putting it mildly. 😢

Thanks sooooo much for the memories! 😆

DownSouth wrote:

It was even worse if you had to sport some Trax sneakers from Kmart with your toughskins.

You sound like you lived in the closet of my youth... and it's creeping me out!  😄

Can't a guy have some secrets? 🙃

This is why I love this place....  the vault of memories that get crow bared open from time to time.

Anyone in for Le Tigre shirts instead of Izod?  😂

 

2
5
KurtJ99
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2664
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2/6/2017
Location
USA
1/12/2025 7:36pm

Not to mention they made it ugly as fuck, in my opinion 

PNWMXer wrote:
Glad I’m not the only one. Those shrouds remind me of the early 80’s when they just threw something on there because radiators were new and...

Glad I’m not the only one. Those shrouds remind me of the early 80’s when they just threw something on there because radiators were new and they weren’t sure what to cover them with.

82 - they handled vile too. 
IMG 0335 1

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1
TeamGreen
Posts
37815
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
1/12/2025 7:40pm

Not to mention they made it ugly as fuck, in my opinion 

PNWMXer wrote:
Glad I’m not the only one. Those shrouds remind me of the early 80’s when they just threw something on there because radiators were new and...

Glad I’m not the only one. Those shrouds remind me of the early 80’s when they just threw something on there because radiators were new and they weren’t sure what to cover them with.

KurtJ99 wrote:
82 - they handled vile too. 

82 - they handled vile too. 
IMG 0335 1

The 480 was awesome. 

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