KTM to file for Bankruptcy/ Self Restructuring on Friday

brocster
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11/28/2024 9:04am

Happy Thanksgiving!  Give it a rest….

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11/28/2024 9:12am

It is easy to Monday morning quarterback KTM’s decisions over the last few years but i would prefer to see the tone turned down. We need to remember behind every company are families and close friends to a lot of us who are worried about their future. 

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gharmon
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11/28/2024 9:32am
mooch wrote:
For anyone wondering what has PTsox so worked up and bitter here...this is the old thread he's referring to where he felt folks here were ganging...

For anyone wondering what has PTsox so worked up and bitter here...this is the old thread he's referring to where he felt folks here were ganging up on him.  To me, PTshox came across as quite arrogant and condescending.  His shenanigans are worth looking at if missed the first time...

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/moto-related/engine-builders-or-moto-dad…

gharmon wrote:
Well shit, thanks for posting that link.  I now just spent an hour reading that shit. lol  I have way more important shit I should be...

Well shit, thanks for posting that link.  I now just spent an hour reading that shit. lol  I have way more important shit I should be doing today.  

GrapeApe wrote:
I wonder if PT realized as he rode in to this thread on his white horse that MxAddic was one of the first to disagree with...

I wonder if PT realized as he rode in to this thread on his white horse that MxAddic was one of the first to disagree with his miracle mod in the other thread?

Yeah I had to go back and reread that because some posted in this one that it was his burner account. So, I assumed they agreed on everything.  Lol 

1
aeffertz
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11/28/2024 9:47am Edited Date/Time 11/28/2024 9:51am
tcannon521 wrote:
It is easy to Monday morning quarterback KTM’s decisions over the last few years but i would prefer to see the tone turned down. We need...

It is easy to Monday morning quarterback KTM’s decisions over the last few years but i would prefer to see the tone turned down. We need to remember behind every company are families and close friends to a lot of us who are worried about their future. 

No doubt but there have been people saying for years before this news that it doesn’t really make sense that KTM is competing with itself by running 3 teams under its own umbrella while running pretty much the same bike that they produce. 

If you think about it, most of the other brands sign one top dog. Under the Pierer group, they’re paying at least 3 top guys plus all the other riders under each tent. I feel like anyone who is looking to race Moto knows that KTM/Husqvarna/GASGAS are all essentially the same bike. If they like that platform they’ll get one of those brands they can get a good deal on and if they don’t, they wont get any of those brands. 

I hope this all works out for them but that doesn’t erase the years of wondering why they are doing what they have been doing. 

3

The Shop

Larry450
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11/28/2024 9:48am
Motofinne wrote:
This is why i think the future of all racing divisions are wide open, regardless of what the KTM spokespersons tell the so-called media."We're going racing...

This is why i think the future of all racing divisions are wide open, regardless of what the KTM spokespersons tell the so-called media.
"We're going racing. Contracts are signed, bikes are built, they're all riding down at Baker's Factory, semis will be on the road," said Tom Moen from KTM's press department.

Do anyone with any kind of critical thinking capabilities think that the creditors give a shit about these racing operations and their survival when they want their owed money back?
Lets see what happens in 90-120 days.

Yep. Media should find out the creditors and ask them if ktm going to race. 

I havent been able find out who ktm owns money to? But maybe deutsche bank? Do they care about A1?

 

2
MxAddic
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11/28/2024 9:52am Edited Date/Time 11/28/2024 9:53am
gharmon wrote:
Yeah I had to go back and reread that because some posted in this one that it was his burner account. So, I assumed they agreed...

Yeah I had to go back and reread that because some posted in this one that it was his burner account. So, I assumed they agreed on everything.  Lol 

As far as I know the only thing we agree upon is there is a sub-set for nit-picky clowns around here that will grasp at the smallest straw to twist things and create drama.

1
4
11/28/2024 9:54am Edited Date/Time 11/28/2024 9:57am
aeffertz wrote:
No doubt but there have been people saying for years before this news that it doesn’t really make sense that KTM is competing with itself by...

No doubt but there have been people saying for years before this news that it doesn’t really make sense that KTM is competing with itself by running 3 teams under its own umbrella while running pretty much the same bike that they produce. 

If you think about it, most of the other brands sign one top dog. Under the Pierer group, they’re paying at least 3 top guys plus all the other riders under each tent. I feel like anyone who is looking to race Moto knows that KTM/Husqvarna/GASGAS are all essentially the same bike. If they like that platform they’ll get one of those brands they can get a good deal on and if they don’t, they wont get any of those brands. 

I hope this all works out for them but that doesn’t erase the years of wondering why they are doing what they have been doing. 

Agreed, a lot of their actions have not made sense from a business perspective, but those decisions were being made by 1% of the company’s employees. I’m just thinking/worried about everyone else who was doing a job and following management instructions. Those are the people most likely logging into Vital and feeling the most pain over the next 90 - 120 days. 

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MxAddic
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11/28/2024 10:09am
tcannon521 wrote:
Agreed, a lot of their actions have not made sense from a business perspective, but those decisions were being made by 1% of the company’s employees...

Agreed, a lot of their actions have not made sense from a business perspective, but those decisions were being made by 1% of the company’s employees. I’m just thinking/worried about everyone else who was doing a job and following management instructions. Those are the people most likely logging into Vital and feeling the most pain over the next 90 - 120 days. 

Unfortunately things have turned into the employees are the ones being hurt most.

A re-do with no accountability is not the solution.

I wish them the best.

PRM31
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Fantasy
11/28/2024 10:20am

I doubt racing has much to do with KTM’s financial issues. By the time you factor in sponsors and benefits it can’t be that much. Manufacturing, brand distinction, production rates seem much bigger issues. 

Happy Thanksgiving!🍁🦃 

Team403
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11/28/2024 10:43am
JazzyJJ wrote:
It really depends on ownership structure and timing of payments. The bond holders don't really have a say in marketing expenses and if the race teams...

It really depends on ownership structure and timing of payments. The bond holders don't really have a say in marketing expenses and if the race teams are owner by a different company technically there's not much that they can do about it.

Team403 wrote:
Not sure I’d be too stoked to know I got laid off from the factory while the party just rolls on to the races.. shit look...

Not sure I’d be too stoked to know I got laid off from the factory while the party just rolls on to the races.. shit look in my opinion.  Seems sensible to back out of the racing contracts for a year and get your finances off life support.  I fully expect our local series contingency program to get slashed - seems reasonable in these situations.

soggy wrote:
So all the PGM would be out of rides for this year?  Canning all the mechanics and everyone related to the race team then have to...

So all the PGM would be out of rides for this year?  Canning all the mechanics and everyone related to the race team then have to build it up again. No thanks. They need to keep some presence if they pulled out of racing the concern from the outsiders perspective would go up. 

I would most certainly not like to see the racing folks affected but I think the families of the production workers are more important than sport.   What sells more bikes - Confidence that your machine was carefully manufactured by engaged persons or Chase Sexton winning?    
Guess it really doesn’t matter what we think is valuable - the folks approving the write downs will decide that… 

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hartebreak
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11/28/2024 11:12am Edited Date/Time 11/28/2024 11:13am
Team403 wrote:
Not sure I’d be too stoked to know I got laid off from the factory while the party just rolls on to the races.. shit look...

Not sure I’d be too stoked to know I got laid off from the factory while the party just rolls on to the races.. shit look in my opinion.  Seems sensible to back out of the racing contracts for a year and get your finances off life support.  I fully expect our local series contingency program to get slashed - seems reasonable in these situations.

soggy wrote:
So all the PGM would be out of rides for this year?  Canning all the mechanics and everyone related to the race team then have to...

So all the PGM would be out of rides for this year?  Canning all the mechanics and everyone related to the race team then have to build it up again. No thanks. They need to keep some presence if they pulled out of racing the concern from the outsiders perspective would go up. 

Team403 wrote:
I would most certainly not like to see the racing folks affected but I think the families of the production workers are more important than sport...

I would most certainly not like to see the racing folks affected but I think the families of the production workers are more important than sport.   What sells more bikes - Confidence that your machine was carefully manufactured by engaged persons or Chase Sexton winning?    
Guess it really doesn’t matter what we think is valuable - the folks approving the write downs will decide that… 

KTM has built their brand around racing not on mopeds or putt around bikes. One could argue that maybe them verging away from their bread and butter into the crossover type bikes (Duke etc.) could have caused them to lose their focus. 

In my opinion, if KTM were to shut down their race teams, even for just a year, they might as well close up shop for good as it would take years if not decades for them to recover from that. 

That being said, I'm not sure how much this is going to hurt their chances in signing riders going forward. I'd guess that re-signing Chase is already a lost cause, him not being stoked on the bike being the main reason, but add this financial mess and I cant see him re-upping. 

This whole thing just sucks, KTM needs to just accept what their niche is in the market. Build good quality race ready bikes, make a few million $ per year and just be good with that. Quit trying to be the next Honda selling cheap bikes all over the world trying to strike gold while losing touch with the very customers that you built your name on.

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Team403
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11/28/2024 11:24am Edited Date/Time 11/28/2024 11:25am

^^^^ seems rational.  As a racer of multiple PMG lines I’m just hopeful that ego doesn’t tank the whole shooting match.   Seems like you could scale back quite a bit and still have a presence.  Do they really need 3 rigs for SX?   Unfortunately PMG has all their eggs in one basket and no SXS’s and Waverunners to support the dips of luxury sport.

tek14
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11/28/2024 12:37pm

Maybe KTM should listen more what people who buy products want? 

2
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kage173
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11/28/2024 3:05pm

A lot of times things like this seem like the end of the world, but 5 years later it's just a war story.and things are on the rise.

My concern is less for corporate than it is for the dealers and their employees. These people keep my program running and I see them out at the tracks. We have several KTM dealers including one of the biggest in the country by volume. It's hard to imagine that they're just going to walk away unscathed. 

Rather than devolving into an argument, I wish someone knowledgeable would describe how this rolls out to the dealers. 

1
Flatliner
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11/28/2024 3:32pm

Three brands may have been too many after all.

KTM, like many powersports and vehicle companies are guilty of huberis during covid even though they knew better.  With everyone having less buying power these days, things like this happen.

My ole faithful 5.0 f150 was bought new at 30k usd.....  a few short years later it was 15k more and all we heard was covid pricing over and over.

 

Should they have built the new HQ in California?  

Spoonguy
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11/28/2024 4:30pm

Decades long KTM dirt bike owner, my first try at a KTM street bike was a fiasco - bike was the worst pile of shit I ever owned. Worse than that KTM North America were ass holes about following up on the problems of the bike. It suprises me little these problems.

1
Flatliner
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11/28/2024 4:57pm
tek14 wrote:

Maybe KTM should listen more what people who buy products want? 

You don't think they have?  Leaving husky and gasgas out of it.... They make two strokes for both mx, and offroad, same with 4 strokes.  An amazing super naked road bike, working on electric offerings.  Not sure what else is missing?  Maybe the quad line that was promising but discontinued?

2
11/28/2024 5:06pm

Maybe some of you can explain why this is a popular concept, the psychology behind it, to sell basically the same thing under a different brand.

KTM-Gas Gas and Husky

General Motors-GMC, Chevy, Buick, Cadillac, Pontiac

Ford-Lincoln Mercury

Honda-Acura

Toyota-Lexus

Nissan-Infiniti

Even other things like Standard and Echlin are the same automotive part, just comes in a different colored box.

 

MXMattii
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11/28/2024 5:20pm
JazzyJJ wrote:
It really depends on ownership structure and timing of payments. The bond holders don't really have a say in marketing expenses and if the race teams...

It really depends on ownership structure and timing of payments. The bond holders don't really have a say in marketing expenses and if the race teams are owner by a different company technically there's not much that they can do about it.

Team403 wrote:
Not sure I’d be too stoked to know I got laid off from the factory while the party just rolls on to the races.. shit look...

Not sure I’d be too stoked to know I got laid off from the factory while the party just rolls on to the races.. shit look in my opinion.  Seems sensible to back out of the racing contracts for a year and get your finances off life support.  I fully expect our local series contingency program to get slashed - seems reasonable in these situations.

soggy wrote:
So all the PGM would be out of rides for this year?  Canning all the mechanics and everyone related to the race team then have to...

So all the PGM would be out of rides for this year?  Canning all the mechanics and everyone related to the race team then have to build it up again. No thanks. They need to keep some presence if they pulled out of racing the concern from the outsiders perspective would go up. 

Facts: He bought a company in August for big bucks, together with Mark Mateschitz. 
Fact: Riders and/or agents are called to talk about their wages (like back when it was COVID19).

MxAddic
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11/28/2024 5:26pm Edited Date/Time 11/28/2024 6:07pm

@soggy  and the rest of your clown posse.  If you want to learn something pay attention to how this fellow talks about a deal with Red Bull on the table and what the stock did. Imagine that.

It seems any hope of bajaj bailing them out is exhausted.

5
11/28/2024 5:27pm
Team403 wrote:
Not sure I’d be too stoked to know I got laid off from the factory while the party just rolls on to the races.. shit look...

Not sure I’d be too stoked to know I got laid off from the factory while the party just rolls on to the races.. shit look in my opinion.  Seems sensible to back out of the racing contracts for a year and get your finances off life support.  I fully expect our local series contingency program to get slashed - seems reasonable in these situations.

soggy wrote:
So all the PGM would be out of rides for this year?  Canning all the mechanics and everyone related to the race team then have to...

So all the PGM would be out of rides for this year?  Canning all the mechanics and everyone related to the race team then have to build it up again. No thanks. They need to keep some presence if they pulled out of racing the concern from the outsiders perspective would go up. 

Team403 wrote:
I would most certainly not like to see the racing folks affected but I think the families of the production workers are more important than sport...

I would most certainly not like to see the racing folks affected but I think the families of the production workers are more important than sport.   What sells more bikes - Confidence that your machine was carefully manufactured by engaged persons or Chase Sexton winning?    
Guess it really doesn’t matter what we think is valuable - the folks approving the write downs will decide that… 

VW decided to enter F1 while they were closing factories and laying off workers.

1
11/28/2024 5:56pm

Talked with my bro over Thanksgiving dinner and I agree with what he was saying. 

Basically they stretched too thin with GasGas and should have stuck with the original plan of having Husqvarna be their top-tier bikes and KTM be a “normal” range. 
 

Husqvarna has the Factory Editions and enduro bikes but keep the model ranges small and low’sh quantity. KTM has everything else for moto and their offroad range bikes stay linkless. 

To me it separates the 2 enough, as we’ve seen and realistically know the 3 brands are almost identical and still too expensive compared to the other manufacturers. 

I do wish them luck because that’s a lot of families in limbo and that sucks. 

4
11/28/2024 6:15pm
tek14 wrote:

Maybe KTM should listen more what people who buy products want? 

I agree. They should probably make modern 2 stroke Mx bikes, 350s, and off-road bikes with tanks large enough to ride off road. 

10
PTshox
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11/28/2024 6:47pm

Lick it up Lungbutter... You deserve to be full and fulfilled! 

1
early
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11/28/2024 6:54pm
Talked with my bro over Thanksgiving dinner and I agree with what he was saying. Basically they stretched too thin with GasGas and should have stuck with...

Talked with my bro over Thanksgiving dinner and I agree with what he was saying. 

Basically they stretched too thin with GasGas and should have stuck with the original plan of having Husqvarna be their top-tier bikes and KTM be a “normal” range. 
 

Husqvarna has the Factory Editions and enduro bikes but keep the model ranges small and low’sh quantity. KTM has everything else for moto and their offroad range bikes stay linkless. 

To me it separates the 2 enough, as we’ve seen and realistically know the 3 brands are almost identical and still too expensive compared to the other manufacturers. 

I do wish them luck because that’s a lot of families in limbo and that sucks. 

I don't think they wanted to give up the prestige of top level moto and off-road with the KTM name, so there was never any differentiation of the brands. KTM was always the top dog but they didn't designated any room below that for the other brands. 

If it was me I'd sell GasGas and make Husqvarna their street or dual sport line. 

Or sell both and and just go back to KTM. Most people know Husqvarna as chainsaws and weed whackers at Lowes.

1
Tyler D
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11/28/2024 6:55pm
bvm111 wrote:

time to buy some stock

MxAddic wrote:

I don't think you understand how it works.

bvm111 wrote:

I’m very well aware how it works … thanks for your concern! 

i read house of cards about the bear stearns deal. great book. those shareholders got $2 per share when they were forced to sell to jpmc. 

PTshox
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11/28/2024 6:58pm

IMG 1800 1Hard to see anything more beautiful then a set of 2 stroke cases that look like this! But if you're IQ is at your age or below... this will freak you out. Happy thanks giving everyone! Love you. And I know I can't fix stupid. No matter how hard I try. I just can't. LOL

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Tyler D
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11/28/2024 7:04pm
Joshracing wrote:
Gotta love the wood screws holding the shrouds to the tank.  My '24 tank is destroyed here.... No recovery possible. Just bigger Wood screws!

Gotta love the wood screws holding the shrouds to the tank.  My '24 tank is destroyed here.... No recovery possible. Just bigger Wood screws!

SCREW.jpg?VersionId=qFEjLhpwURzSlgSaNounsw6WN

magura does this shit with their mtb brake perches. i really don't know what the germans obsession with plastic and wood screws is all about

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