Financial reports.

Dan-The-Man wrote:

Nothing is selling. Most people are spending their disposable income on inflation. Californian's are struggling more than anyone.  When you see bigger corporations struggling, you know...

Nothing is selling. Most people are spending their disposable income on inflation. Californian's are struggling more than anyone.  When you see bigger corporations struggling, you know what is coming. It's going to get worse before better.

Thank you covid, thank you free money, thank you socialism.  Thanks Newscum.

The real Sasquatch wrote:

I was looking at he number of bikes Gasgas sold in the US and was wondering how they could justify spending so much money on a...

I was looking at he number of bikes Gasgas sold in the US and was wondering how they could justify spending so much money on a full race team. I figured they must have been hoping it would do better. But when I was looking at the numbers I knew they had to be spending much more than they were making.  

 I really think they will end up being OK. And perhaps there is more to the giant loss than it looks like. 

 

 I'm wondering if perhaps Triumph and Ducati could see the writing on the wall with the KTM group.   Seeing what they have been spending VS bike sales. And they saw a lot of bikes being sold , just not enough to justify the crazy spending. Enough that if KTM were to go away, there would be a big hole in the market to fill. So perhaps that is the reason Ducati and Triumph are getting into MX. They figure that KTM will be gone by the time they develop their bikes and they will hope to  get some of the KTM guys that don't jump ship to a Japanese  brand.

 Or perhaps Chinese in a couple years. CF moto is being super aggressive with new stuff. And they have US based team designing and  testing stuff for the US market.  They brought out a new SXS that looks to be on par or better than the other Sport SXS's that cost 10K more. Segway also has some good ,aggressively priced performance SXS's that they give a lifetime  powertrain warranty for the original owners. How wild is that?  

 

Boomslang wrote:

A bit of difficulties I'd say and I wonder how it will effect the MX side. KTM is a sports giant and one of the most renowned...

A bit of difficulties I'd say and I wonder how it will effect the MX side.

 

KTM is a sports giant and one of the most renowned motorcycle manufacturers, but even its huge global presence doesn’t mean it’s exempt from financial crises and that’s exactly what’s happening, forcing the mighty Austrian company to restructure.

 

KTM is in an alarming financial situation, having suffered a massive loss of 2.5 billion euros. This unprecedented crisis raises serious questions about the future of the Austrian company, owned by the Pierer Mobility group.

 

Faced with this worrying scenario, KTM has embarked on a comprehensive restructuring process aimed at reducing costs and optimizing its operations. Among the most drastic measures are a significant reduction in motorcycle production, cuts in investments in motorcycle competitions and the possible elimination of the GasGas brand from its portfolio, as well as the hypothetical discontinuation of the Husqvarna brand.

Several factors have contributed to this critical situation, including high interest rates in the United States and a sharp drop in sales in European markets. In response, the Pierer Mobility group is reorienting its strategy towards the Asian market, where sales have shown greater resilience.

However, this shift in focus could have consequences for Western consumers, as it could result in less investment in the development of models traditionally popular in Europe and North America.

As far as competitions are concerned, KTM plans to drastically reduce its presence. The Austrian brand will be the only one to maintain a significant participation, relying on the support of its main sponsor, Red Bull.

This crisis at KTM reflects the challenges currently facing the motorcycle industry in an increasingly uncertain and competitive global economic context.

 

Rocketship wrote:

You wrote this down yourself or is it copy paste? If so it's maybe smart to share the source.How did Pierer lose 2.5 billion? Is it...

You wrote this down yourself or is it copy paste? If so it's maybe smart to share the source.

How did Pierer lose 2.5 billion? Is it stock devaluation or what do you exactly try to explain?

APLMAN99 wrote:

Yes, it’s market capitalization. 

burnside wrote:

"Most people are spending their disposable income on inflation." 

So true, and depressing. 
Same in UK. 

Boomslang wrote:

Same in SA. The middle class in is going broke quickly....

burnside wrote:

"Most people are spending their disposable income on inflation." 

So true, and depressing. 
Same in UK. 

Boomslang wrote:

Same in SA. The middle class in is going broke quickly....

Question wrote:

Market cap means not much, it depends of the cycle. Boomslang, please feel free to update the title as it may cause a lot of damage to...

Market cap means not much, it depends of the cycle. 

Boomslang, please feel free to update the title as it may cause a lot of damage to the brands whereas, althought they have difficulties, it is nowhere near a disaster. Basically they lost in the first half of the year what they made last year, 172 million euros. Last year they made 160, and 235 in 2022. It is mostful due to slower bike sales, almost 1.4 billion in the first half of 2023, vs. 1 billion "only" in the first half of 2024. Based on this slowdown, I think they resisted pretty well. Nothing is certain but I think they will cope with this wave without major issues. 

Vital, ML, Maverick, it may be a good time for a little article or even a press release as there is quite some fake information on the net regarding the group. 

Here are the financial reports, page 2 for the first half of 2024, 

https://www.wienerborse.at/en/stock-prime-market/pierer-mobility-ag-AT0000KTMI02/company-profile/?c11403%5Bfile%5D=VW2PSnEQIcmwNCXNVO7qwA

Page 9 for 2023 ;

https://www.wienerborse.at/en/stock-prime-market/pierer-mobility-ag-AT0000KTMI02/company-profile/?c11403%5Bfile%5D=wAb2ytvkQCkAFImIEUNz3w

Thanks !

 

Boomslang wrote:

Changed the title and if you can think of a better title then feel free to let me know.

Rocketship wrote:

You wrote this down yourself or is it copy paste? If so it's maybe smart to share the source.How did Pierer lose 2.5 billion? Is it...

You wrote this down yourself or is it copy paste? If so it's maybe smart to share the source.

How did Pierer lose 2.5 billion? Is it stock devaluation or what do you exactly try to explain?

40acres wrote:

https://motorcyclesports.net/ktm-faces-serious-financial-crisis-and-res…

fullfloater wrote:

Yes, a couple of sites are running the same story. The stock ticker looks ugly. It tripled between the covid dip and Jan 2022 (or even...

Yes, a couple of sites are running the same story. The stock ticker looks ugly. It tripled between the covid dip and Jan 2022 (or even March 2023) but is now below the level at the covid bottom (Mar-Apr 2020). Rough ride back down for shareholders. Anyone brave enough to buy the dip? 😝

Brent wrote:

…bikes are not selling here in California.High interest rates combined with high prices would be my guess as why new models are still sitting on the...

…bikes are not selling here in California.

High interest rates combined with high prices would be my guess as why new models are still sitting on the dealer floors.

For a young guy looking to buy a dirt bike,  it’s  getting really hard to justify spending or financing 12 grand when everything else costs so much just to live nowadays.

Also, Boomers are holding onto bikes longer - I don’t see a ton of 2025 KTM’s  at the local tracks, also word about the stiffer frame has spooked a lot of potential buyers I think. 

 I’m sticking with my 24s for another year because the used bike  market is stone cold…

Gravel wrote:

A contributing factor to slow bike sales in CA is the DMV doesn’t issue registration to ride on public lands for bikes that aren’t emissions compliant...

A contributing factor to slow bike sales in CA is the DMV doesn’t issue registration to ride on public lands for bikes that aren’t emissions compliant. We still have a lot of public lands to ride on, who wants to spend ~10k on a bike that can only be used on racetracks or private land? And it’s killing resale value, usually the second owners are less serious and more into trail-play riding. 

 

moto-b wrote:

Taking away public land and we get more of this: https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/bay-area-cops-stopping-dirt-bike…

bvm111 wrote:

I am pretty sure over the next few years every major manufacturer is going to be “finding efficiencies” and “streamlining” its cyclical and pretty normal for...

I am pretty sure over the next few years every major manufacturer is going to be “finding efficiencies” and “streamlining” its cyclical and pretty normal for corporations to restructure based on the economy. 

MxAddic wrote:

He don’t know how to read a stock chart. It’s at pandemic lows and the rest of the market it at record highs. There is something...

He don’t know how to read a stock chart. It’s at pandemic lows and the rest of the market it at record highs. There is something called mark to market and this pig ain’t coming back. Basically they where cooking the books by pushing units on dealers, sorry but not sorry, that’s a loser.

Gravel wrote:

A contributing factor to slow bike sales in CA is the DMV doesn’t issue registration to ride on public lands for bikes that aren’t emissions compliant...

A contributing factor to slow bike sales in CA is the DMV doesn’t issue registration to ride on public lands for bikes that aren’t emissions compliant. We still have a lot of public lands to ride on, who wants to spend ~10k on a bike that can only be used on racetracks or private land? And it’s killing resale value, usually the second owners are less serious and more into trail-play riding. 

 

Jmicmoto13 wrote:

I agree with the stance that KTM shouldn’t have purchased Husky or Gas Gas, but can’t we assume they had a thought of per unit savings...

I agree with the stance that KTM shouldn’t have purchased Husky or Gas Gas, but can’t we assume they had a thought of per unit savings, due to economies of scale for almost “the same” basic bike, sold 3 ways, relatively speaking?

sandman768 wrote:

Perfect time for suzuki to buy gas gas & just put some yellow plastics on💪

Jmicmoto13 wrote:

I agree with the stance that KTM shouldn’t have purchased Husky or Gas Gas, but can’t we assume they had a thought of per unit savings...

I agree with the stance that KTM shouldn’t have purchased Husky or Gas Gas, but can’t we assume they had a thought of per unit savings, due to economies of scale for almost “the same” basic bike, sold 3 ways, relatively speaking?

OFalk280 wrote:

The problem is do you really have triple the potential customers with 3 brands? Even 1.5 the amount of customers over just 1 brand is pushing...

The problem is do you really have triple the potential customers with 3 brands? Even 1.5 the amount of customers over just 1 brand is pushing it when they are essentially the same bikes within a pricing percentage of each other, just pick your favorite color. I would argue that when the product differentiators between the 3 brands are suspension and engine character, and a large chunk of their customers will change parts that will move that from OEM anyway, are they really going to be different bikes at that point? What advantage do they gain from 3 manufacturers instead of just 1 when it’s yet again the same bike?

soresammy wrote:

Does anyone know what Ktm's or the group in whole claimed for sales the last couple years has been?

40acres wrote:

https://motorcyclesports.net/ktm-faces-serious-financial-crisis-and-res…

fullfloater wrote:

Yes, a couple of sites are running the same story. The stock ticker looks ugly. It tripled between the covid dip and Jan 2022 (or even...

Yes, a couple of sites are running the same story. The stock ticker looks ugly. It tripled between the covid dip and Jan 2022 (or even March 2023) but is now below the level at the covid bottom (Mar-Apr 2020). Rough ride back down for shareholders. Anyone brave enough to buy the dip? 😝

mx 219 wrote:

Might invest a few thousand...can't be any worse than my chinese Telsa and electric fright truck investments 😆

Soul Indigo wrote:

They have talked about this being an error they made. The goal was to differentiate between 3 brands, but when you have a philosophy on “best performance”...

They have talked about this being an error they made. 

The goal was to differentiate between 3 brands, but when you have a philosophy on “best performance”, its hard to take a different approach to the other models. 

The result is you inevitably end up with 3 of the same bikes. 

If it was simply for economies of scale, then the market would have to support that. If it did, other manufacturers would simply scale up too.

Gravel wrote:

The GasGas brand was introduced as the budget brand, but quickly became a full performance product with silver rims. I was hoping to see them as...

The GasGas brand was introduced as the budget brand, but quickly became a full performance product with silver rims. I was hoping to see them as a fully engineered $7k-$8k bike that was beginner friendly but could be ridden hard without terrifying a decent rider. Good geometry, valving, ergonomics are a one time cost that don’t add a dime to production costs.. 

The real Sasquatch wrote:

I was looking at he number of bikes Gasgas sold in the US and was wondering how they could justify spending so much money on a...

I was looking at he number of bikes Gasgas sold in the US and was wondering how they could justify spending so much money on a full race team. I figured they must have been hoping it would do better. But when I was looking at the numbers I knew they had to be spending much more than they were making.  

 I really think they will end up being OK. And perhaps there is more to the giant loss than it looks like. 

 

 I'm wondering if perhaps Triumph and Ducati could see the writing on the wall with the KTM group.   Seeing what they have been spending VS bike sales. And they saw a lot of bikes being sold , just not enough to justify the crazy spending. Enough that if KTM were to go away, there would be a big hole in the market to fill. So perhaps that is the reason Ducati and Triumph are getting into MX. They figure that KTM will be gone by the time they develop their bikes and they will hope to  get some of the KTM guys that don't jump ship to a Japanese  brand.

 Or perhaps Chinese in a couple years. CF moto is being super aggressive with new stuff. And they have US based team designing and  testing stuff for the US market.  They brought out a new SXS that looks to be on par or better than the other Sport SXS's that cost 10K more. Segway also has some good ,aggressively priced performance SXS's that they give a lifetime  powertrain warranty for the original owners. How wild is that?  

 

Rocketship wrote:

Both Ducati and Triumph have their own reasons and strategies and if you pay attention you see it has absolutely nothing to do with the Pierer...

Both Ducati and Triumph have their own reasons and strategies and if you pay attention you see it has absolutely nothing to do with the Pierer Mobility Group struggling currently. Commitments and investments where long made before the Pierer Group stock was even dropping or the current problems became clear, so based on exactly what you make these assumptions? I see the alarmists going full bullshit everywhere and you do exactly the same with baseless assumptions. The full of shit ''news articles'' and Youtube video's exaggerate big-time to gain from the clicks and views and nobody is able to see that?

 Ducati wants to expand in the US and looks at Motocross / Supercross as good marketing tool to get known better and eventually grow in to the US market. With the backing of their owner Audi / VAG group budget isn't an issue here. That it distracts KTM from their Motogp efforts is a bonus, but even that wasn't the main reason to get in to off-road / Motocross and Supercross.

Triumph again has a similar goal and strategy, they want to increase their bike sales in all categories and the US market is their main target for that. and believe it or not, their Motocross and supercross efforts are impressive, but budget wise it is pocket change in comparison with road racing in Motogp, Moto2, Moto3 or World Superbikes would cost.

Yes Pierer Mobility is clearly struggling with unsold inventory across the board, they produced way too much motorcycles and also the pricing on mainly their off-road offerings have been a catalysator of their problems. Also it doesn't help them with the amount of problems with their motorcycles over their full range and this really needs to be addressed.

In the core the Pierer Mobility group and their major share holder Pierer Bajaj are very healthy companies and they undertook action to stay healthy on the short and long term. What nobody puts in their articles and reporting is that with the restructuring going on the company expects only a slight loss or a small gain over 2024.