Going off track

We don’t need a rule change, we need better administration and more consistency in its application. And a lot more transparency 

You gotta stop and re-enter where you went off.  Done deal.  Losing 5 - 10 seconds on a 2 minute lap is appropriate.

After all this time it seems there is only two logical paths forward.

The AMA get its shit together – probably not gonna happen since they gave two riders from the same day a different ruling, with arguably the worst offender skipping a penalty altogether...

OR – just make it that you gotta re-enter where you exit.
There should in fact be a penalty for going off track afterall. This way it's auto-regulated by having to turn around and then there's no ifs or buts. The penalty is self-evident.

In the case they don't, standardise a nuclear deterrent penalty, 5 places or similar, heavy enough that the riders won't.

Do you think it's a good idea to have riders going against the flow of traffic to re join the track? I don't. 

I actually don't mind the idea of having to come to a complete stop and then re joining the race but having riders turn around and ride back to where they went off is just dangerous IMO

Agreed, in principle it sounds like the solution but in reality motocross and supercross are unique in that it's not safe or practical to re-enter where you leave (or even possible in some cases without doing some weird hard enduro type shenanigans).

125dad nailed it. Having to come to a complete stop and rejoin safely seems more than reasonable.

going on where you go off could lead to ridiculous situations where it’s not possible, not safe, or just flat out not reasonable.

my only question is, are we talking when they’re like 6 inches off track and just skirting with the track markers? Can you imagine how many people would have to come to a complete stop at the first turn or two off the start? The track boundaries become pretty blurred in a ton of instances.

Said this in the other thread, but I think having to come to a complete stop is a good option, it’s safer and easier to officiate.

It works in nascar whenever they blow through chicanes in road courses  , I think it would work well in mx , 

I disagree. A rule change is needed. Race after race, the issue comes back. Like i said in the other thread, going off track should mean that the rider really loses time. And the new rule, whatever it is, should be world wide, also. 

I like this one. 

Why can’t they time the section normally, time it on the track cut lap, see if they gained time from point a to point b on that section, penalize them 2x whatever they gained?

gained 2 seconds on your off track trip? Penalized 4 seconds.

gained 0 no penalty.

gained 30 seconds skipping an entire section like we’ve seen done before, penalize them 60. Etc.

Who is going to police coming to a full stop? Imagine that in a mud race. 

I’d hazard a guess that the cameras missed more riders accelerating off track than they caught.

Let’s chalk this up as a bad call and not introduce more difficult to enforce rules as a reaction.

Re-entering where you go off sounds good in theory, but in practice?

What happens if you get squirrelly, or get into someone on the face of a triple and go off track, you’d have rejoin in the middle of a triple, or even worse, at the down ramp.
What if you go off at outdoor track with speed and have to turn around and ride backwards along the side of the track to re-enter where you went off.
What if you go over a steep bowl berm and have to ride up the back of it blind to re-enter….

So many scenarios where it simply wouldn’t be safe.

The issue that arises to me is going off track up/down a hill. We expect someone to find a way to climb a hill while off track just to re-enter? That seems very dangerous. Imagine someone goes off track while going up “screw-u” at Unadilla. How are they going to stop, turn around, and then re-climb the hill? Or worse, they go off track midway down a long hill, like at Millville for example. Now they’re re-entering the track half way down a blind hill. Not into this idea. Same goes for coming to a stop, this would only create more issues on elevated parts of the tracks. I think we should see time-based penalties for off track acceleration. To me, the issue isn’t the going off track, it’s the fact that dudes are WFO while doing it. Vialle grabbed a handful, Deegan did for a second then let off. They need to shut it down and re enter slowly, or they get a time penalty. 

That's the way it was done when i was racing in the 90's and it mostly worked. Of course you need to adapt where you can back in some cases, but it is still better than what we see today, where going off track times in a week-end is OK and cost you nothing. 

Rules are not the problem. Consistent enforcement is.

Two things. Complete stop to re entering a track safely. Ever try and merge on the interstate from a complete stop. A guy in a championship hunt sitting there while bikes go whizzing by losing points is just going to wait?  Not sure how safely that’s gonna play out. Secondly, now imagine the controversy of the “rolling stop” with the clown show that is the AMA. You could change the rules all you want to make it make sense but in the end the AMA is gonna AMA.

Not saying (well I’m not) that you have to stop at the edge of the track, then re-enter, just that if you go off track, you need to come to a complete stop at some stage, wherever is practical and safe, then move and re-enter safely just as the rule is now.
E.g. in the second Deegan example last weekend, instead of accelerating past the photographer like he did, he’d have to stop, then roll alongside the track and pick the nearest safest place to re-enter. It’s just as the rule is now except adding in the stop, so that riders are automatically time penalised for an off track excursion instead of relying on the AMA to officiate consistently, which they’ve proved time and time again, they can’t do.

How about an app of some sort that retards the ecu while off pre determined boundary (track markers have little gps things in em)  sort of like a dog collar invisible fence.  That would keep riders from accelerating off the track, and keep track workers and spectators safe....

That shit would fail and get somebody killed when it retards the timing off the race of a jump.

No accelerating when off track. 
 

Have to come to a complete stop that can easily be verified in person or video review before entering track again. 
 

You should be penalized for leaving the track. 
 

It could make the racing better with more story lines etc for TV. See how I added TV to get the money moving for a new rule change. 😉

The real problem is that track is bullshit looks like it's built on a landfill why not Glen Helen or anything else?

My thought is that the AMA should adopt what MotoGP does. If you exceed track limits once, you get a warning; if you exceed track limits twice, you get penalized. If you cut the track, and/or don't slow down and reenter the lap safely, you get penalized. They took all of the grey area out of it., as it should be.

Exactly that's why you stay on the track and don't go off. if you go off your race is done. There used to be a snow fences around  both sides of the track and Riders didn't go off the track very often if they did they paid the price stay away from the edge of the track

I like the idea of a complete stop before re-entering the track. I also like the idea of them re-entering where they went off track but there are times, especially in SX, where that could be tricky like a turn with a berm.

I would be in favor of the riders being forced to coast when they are off track, they can't go WFO, they must re-enter at the nearest possible location, and must come to a stop and look to the left and right before entering the track. If the rider does not oblige to any of those 3 stipulations it is a 20 second penalty. That will change things. The penalty isn't enough to get them to follow the rules currently.

If you exit the track then let off the gas, get back on safely and the next time you come by the finish line you will get a unique flag that indicates you have to pull off near the pits in a designated area and are held by AMA for 2-3 seconds at a complete stop. Once the time is up, you can tear off back to the track. 

Remember, the off track rules are written around safety.. So if you are required to come to a complete stop before reentering the track. Are you allowed to completely stop and then hold it WFO and dump the clutch and go, roost the camera man, potentially roost anyone on the medic UTV that you are speeding by? 

This horse has been beat into dust at this point. 

Make a lane near the mechanic area. If you go off the track. You must pull into the lane and do a stop and go that lap or 5 position penalty. Making a mistake like thats has to cost you time. It shouldnt be about whether you gained time or not as the deciding factor. This is the safest and easiest way to regulate it.  

Or bring back the triangle track banners. Going off track, they clothesline you or get wrapped up in your rear wheel, instant penalty!

for those saying the rules are fine, they just need to be enforced better, I disagree, the rule is too vague

"1.6.20 TRACK CUTS/UNFAIR ADVANTAGE a. A Rider leaving the course may only continue by properly re-entering the course, without gaining a time or position advantage, from the closest possible point to where that Rider left the course. While off course, the Rider must not accelerate in an unsafe manner. b. Race Direction will make the determination as to whether a Rider gained any advantage by leaving the racecourse and re-entering. The Rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position."

without gaining a time or position advantage - how on earth are they going to figure this out? Are they going to take your average time through that section and compare it to the time you went off track? What if it was your third fastest time through that section, was it an advantage or not?

from the closest possible point to where that Rider left the course. Who decides where it's safe, what if you thought I missed the take-off of a triple and could have safely re-entered at the second, but I don't want to risk getting landed on so I joined at the corner after the triple.

Rider must not accelerate in an unsafe manner. I don't think a professional can accelerate unsafely, this is what they do for a living. 

Couldn't transponders average out each lap and determine how much time was gained or lost when a rider went off the track?