Dumbest Red Cross flag placement in the History of Supercross

GBS
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3/31/2024 6:21pm

The picture makes it very clear, but it is not as it appears as the riders are much lower than the camera that took the picture. The flag should have been in the turn before, or at least a yellow flag on the turn before so the riders new something was up. I aslo agree the race is over at the checkered flag.

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Gravel
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3/31/2024 6:51pm

The Red Cross flag is displayed on the side of the track that they need the racers to avoid, right? The way it’s shown in the picture pushes the riders to the left, keeping the downed rider and medics from getting hit. 
 

I think the flag man should have had both hands on the flag (top and bottom) keeping the Red Cross visible, while moving it enough to catch the riders eye. But whatever the case, jumping on a Red Cross flag has to result in a penalty or we will see medics and downed riders getting jumped over and potentially hit.
 

The idea that we just don’t give a shit about medics and a rider downed just past the checkers is a non-starter. What would you want to see if your kid/dad/brother was downed where VF was? 

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lumpy790
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3/31/2024 7:20pm

Saw race footage on YouTube that showed several others jump it on the white flag lap and One may have been ET

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3/31/2024 7:24pm
jpred wrote:
The point of the cross flag is safety, can we agree on that? The fact that 6 riders failed to see the flag is an issue...

The point of the cross flag is safety, can we agree on that? The fact that 6 riders failed to see the flag is an issue. 25% failure rate of that system is not good for the safety of a downed rider. 

This is my point of view exactly.  If the function of the flag is safety and 1/4th or more of the field didn’t see it, that’s an error on the organizer.

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The Shop

Boggins
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3/31/2024 7:25pm

No reason the lazy ass in the Tower couldnt have been waiving the Red Crx flag on the straight coming into the finish line corner - then no one would have missed it.  

All on FELD....2 cent flaggers with very little flagging knowledge or experience.

The only positive:   ET3 got a win, and the points lead is reduced from 16 to 8.

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gerg
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3/31/2024 7:53pm

Riders jumping red cross flags has been going on far too long.

The fact so many were penalised in St Louis tells me the current system isn't working and the AMA needs to get their collective shit together and figure it out.

I would say the percentage of riders who jump a red cross flag deliberately would have to be close to zero, so it's a pretty scummy thing for the AMA to impose penalties on riders who have a thousand things happening at once, when it's on the AMA to be providing a safe working environment.

If flaggers arent 100% noticeable that is on the AMA, not the riders.

That red cross flag being just casually held out while at the same time waving the white flag or chequered flag and all those riders missing is literally a case of Inattentional Blindness...there's been studies done on this stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inattentional_blindness

With radio comms to the riders not allowed there needs to be an unmissable supplemental addition to just have a person waving (or in this case not waving) a red cross flag.  The most obvious thing I can think of is section lights.  Eg red lights flashing in a track section means there is a red cross flag in this section.

IMO the AMA are currently hopeless so I suspect that nothing will change.

/rant.

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Mit12
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3/31/2024 8:01pm

Red cross flags should be given going into a corner from both sides of the track. Who cares if the riders have to go slower a little longer when it comes to downed riders safety. 

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NateDawg241
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3/31/2024 9:17pm
CPR wrote:
Eli saw it because he’d settled for 2nd and was cruising home. Jett was on the gas from the inside, and Webb, Sexton and co were...

Eli saw it because he’d settled for 2nd and was cruising home. Jett was on the gas from the inside, and Webb, Sexton and co were battling for position.

Putting the ‘no jump’ flag after the takeoff of the jump you’re not supposed to jump is dumb, but they have to enforce the penalty.

Huh? Jett had 4 seconds to the bike behind him, what's his excuse?

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NateDawg241
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3/31/2024 9:18pm
Front242 wrote:

looks to me like a post race red cross flag after checkered Flag😝

ctbale wrote:
It didnt happen during the race.  Should be no penalty to the five riders. It's no different if you're going thru the tunnel on the way...

It didnt happen during the race.  Should be no penalty to the five riders. It's no different if you're going thru the tunnel on the way back to the truck and someone waves a Red Cross flag.  Or if it's being waved at you 30 ft after the finish line after the checker.   The other point is five professional motocrossers miss the red cross flag.  Is it more likely that there's a problem with those five professional motocrossers or is it more likely that there's a problem with the Red Cross flag?  AMA are a bunch of fuckin amateurs.

What a garbage take

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CPR
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3/31/2024 9:36pm
CPR wrote:
Eli saw it because he’d settled for 2nd and was cruising home. Jett was on the gas from the inside, and Webb, Sexton and co were...

Eli saw it because he’d settled for 2nd and was cruising home. Jett was on the gas from the inside, and Webb, Sexton and co were battling for position.

Putting the ‘no jump’ flag after the takeoff of the jump you’re not supposed to jump is dumb, but they have to enforce the penalty.

Huh? Jett had 4 seconds to the bike behind him, what's his excuse?

So that’s what you take away from what I said? 🤣

kage173
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4/1/2024 5:30am
Snail wrote:
Part of racing. And all disciplines of racing.    no excuse there.  Finish line is always a spot for flags of all colors in road -...

Part of racing. And all disciplines of racing. 
 

no excuse there.  Finish line is always a spot for flags of all colors in road - dirt - water

👍 Every single motorsport in the world.

Moto_Geek
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4/1/2024 5:38am

I hope the teams APPEAL this.. but unfortunately it is out on the right.

I like the one way radio idea RC mentioned on a post of telling riders of issues on the track. All professional road races use this technology now. Would improve safety as well making riders aware of cautions or situations like this one.   

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kxking
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4/1/2024 6:17am

Those leader light columns, how expensive are they, would it be totally out of the budget to put them at the base of all big doubles and triples ?? Buy them once and bring them to all the tracks set them up and boom, rider safety, A-star medical safety, and extra visibility for all the riders.

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TyRod
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4/1/2024 6:33am
DonM wrote:

There should have been yellow flags leading up to the last corner....but Anderson probably still would have jumped it 😂

The yellow flag before the turn was being waved. Clearly shows it at the end of the broadcast when they showed 3 different videos of it and were explaining it.

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4/1/2024 7:35am

To all the idiots saying "why didn't they wave the red cross flag" Have you never ridden motocross? You wouldn't be able to see the red cross on the flag very well if they were waving it. Then you'd bitch that it wasn't stationary to see the cross. I'm betting because this incident involved the wonderboy and 5 other guys, they'll have new lights on the finish line towers by next weekend.

- On a side note: Where did the blinking tuff block lights disappear to on the top of the finish line jump? Pretty sure I remember seeing them just like lights on the triples.

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300exc
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4/1/2024 7:35am
aees wrote:
That's because he took the outside line. You can't have a red cross flag that you can't see unless you are not racing, or taking the...

That's because he took the outside line.

You can't have a red cross flag that you can't see unless you are not racing, or taking the other line. 

TheMilkman wrote:
I would like to see the difference of line between those who saw it and those who didn’t. I don’t think a single one of the...

I would like to see the difference of line between those who saw it and those who didn’t. I don’t think a single one of the riders who were penalized saw the flag and I bet they all took the inside line.

Like someone else said in an earlier post, why wasn’t there a yellow flag prior? It’s a done deal, I just hope they figure something out to stop dumb shit like this from happening again.

There was a yellow flag prior to the turn leading up to the finish.

17 riders of all abilities saw the medic flag and responded appropriately.

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4/1/2024 7:38am
lumpy790 wrote:

Saw race footage on YouTube that showed several others jump it on the white flag lap and One may have been ET

Not true. They showed Jett and Tomac cross the finish line to start the last lap, there was no cross flag then. Between Tomac and 3rd place is when it happened.

TAUTOG
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4/1/2024 7:42am

Who would ever expect to see a flag, at the flagging tower……

image 162

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DonM
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4/1/2024 8:19am
DonM wrote:

There should have been yellow flags leading up to the last corner....but Anderson probably still would have jumped it 😂

TyRod wrote:
The yellow flag before the turn was being waved. Clearly shows it at the end of the broadcast when they showed 3 different videos of it...

The yellow flag before the turn was being waved. Clearly shows it at the end of the broadcast when they showed 3 different videos of it and were explaining it.

I haven't re-watched it but if that is the case then everybody that jumped it has no excuse and it should be a lesson for the riders to pay more attention. 

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4/1/2024 9:27am Edited Date/Time 4/1/2024 9:31am
DonM wrote:

There should have been yellow flags leading up to the last corner....but Anderson probably still would have jumped it 😂

TyRod wrote:
The yellow flag before the turn was being waved. Clearly shows it at the end of the broadcast when they showed 3 different videos of it...

The yellow flag before the turn was being waved. Clearly shows it at the end of the broadcast when they showed 3 different videos of it and were explaining it.

DonM wrote:
I haven't re-watched it but if that is the case then everybody that jumped it has no excuse and it should be a lesson for the...

I haven't re-watched it but if that is the case then everybody that jumped it has no excuse and it should be a lesson for the riders to pay more attention. 

I just watched the end. The only guy with a yellow flag is next to the rider in the middle of the finish line jump next to the team manager tower. NOT out in the start straight like some guys are saying. Which to me doesn't really matter. If you aren't paying attention and don't see the flag that's your fault. What are the chances the flagger tower was holding a flag?

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lumpy790
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4/1/2024 9:29am
DonM wrote:

There should have been yellow flags leading up to the last corner....but Anderson probably still would have jumped it 😂

TyRod wrote:
The yellow flag before the turn was being waved. Clearly shows it at the end of the broadcast when they showed 3 different videos of it...

The yellow flag before the turn was being waved. Clearly shows it at the end of the broadcast when they showed 3 different videos of it and were explaining it.

DonM wrote:
I haven't re-watched it but if that is the case then everybody that jumped it has no excuse and it should be a lesson for the...

I haven't re-watched it but if that is the case then everybody that jumped it has no excuse and it should be a lesson for the riders to pay more attention. 

Yellow flags mean nothing in Pro SX/MX so they pretty much don’t see them. 

Why don’t all flaggers have a Red Cross flag? Or do they?

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TyRod
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4/1/2024 9:39am
TyRod wrote:
The yellow flag before the turn was being waved. Clearly shows it at the end of the broadcast when they showed 3 different videos of it...

The yellow flag before the turn was being waved. Clearly shows it at the end of the broadcast when they showed 3 different videos of it and were explaining it.

DonM wrote:
I haven't re-watched it but if that is the case then everybody that jumped it has no excuse and it should be a lesson for the...

I haven't re-watched it but if that is the case then everybody that jumped it has no excuse and it should be a lesson for the riders to pay more attention. 

HonDawg17 wrote:
I just watched the end. The only guy with a yellow flag is next to the rider in the middle of the finish line jump next...

I just watched the end. The only guy with a yellow flag is next to the rider in the middle of the finish line jump next to the team manager tower. NOT out in the start straight like some guys are saying. Which to me doesn't really matter. If you aren't paying attention and don't see the flag that's your fault. What are the chances the flagger tower was holding a flag?

Looks like you need to get your vision checked, dipshit!! The flager on the right before the turn was waving the yellow flag as shown in this screenshot with the red cross flag out.Screenshot 20240401 123136 YouTube..

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DonM
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4/1/2024 9:42am
DonM wrote:
I haven't re-watched it but if that is the case then everybody that jumped it has no excuse and it should be a lesson for the...

I haven't re-watched it but if that is the case then everybody that jumped it has no excuse and it should be a lesson for the riders to pay more attention. 

HonDawg17 wrote:
I just watched the end. The only guy with a yellow flag is next to the rider in the middle of the finish line jump next...

I just watched the end. The only guy with a yellow flag is next to the rider in the middle of the finish line jump next to the team manager tower. NOT out in the start straight like some guys are saying. Which to me doesn't really matter. If you aren't paying attention and don't see the flag that's your fault. What are the chances the flagger tower was holding a flag?

TyRod wrote:
Looks like you need to get your vision checked, dipshit!! The flager on the right before the turn was waving the yellow flag as shown in...

Looks like you need to get your vision checked, dipshit!! The flager on the right before the turn was waving the yellow flag as shown in this screenshot with the red cross flag out.Screenshot 20240401 123136 YouTube..

Wow! that makes it clear that the majority of the fault falls on the riders...they need to be more aware. 

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TheMilkman
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4/1/2024 9:49am
300exc wrote:

There was a yellow flag prior to the turn leading up to the finish.

17 riders of all abilities saw the medic flag and responded appropriately.

I see the guy on the start straight with the yellow flag now. It came out after 6 guys jumped over Vince.

I recommend everyone watch the fan video. Vince stops between the take off and landing right after Jett passes him. Flagger scrambles to get the Red Cross flag, pulls it out while Eli is jumping over Vince. Then Chiz(11), Cason(81), Hill(46), Sexton(1), and Anderson(21) all jump on the red cross with no yellow flag prior.

When yellow flag came out on the start straight riders seemed to have better awareness.
 

Vince was off to the side of the track. This doesn’t seem like it warranted a Red Cross flag. 

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Chug_Thunder
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4/1/2024 10:08am
bvm111 wrote:
eli managed to see it and roll the jump … sorry jett didn’t see it, but, even in the picture you have the the red cross...

eli managed to see it and roll the jump … sorry jett didn’t see it, but, even in the picture you have the the red cross flag is way further out and pretty obvious to see, shit he is even pointed directly at it exiting the corner.  

Eli wasn't trying to win a race. He had already accepted defeat and was cruising to 2nd.

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4/1/2024 10:10am Edited Date/Time 4/1/2024 10:15am

Jett has less than a second to react from the time he see's the flag to then try and back off clearing that jump. 

And yet Tomac and the vast majority of riders saw it and didn't jump, lol. You have no valid argument

I think that a lot of the guys that did not jump it, were not going to jump it anyway. How often do you see guys roll the finish if they are not in the heat of a battle  or the winner? Very often.Jett did not see it until he was already in the air. Eli may have jumped it had there been somebody close behind him. And I would also argue that he most likely would have rolled it if there was not a red cross flag, given that he was not being pressured or close enough to pass jett. 

 

 I think that they should have put the flag out  before the corner . By the time they see it, they have such a small amount of time to decide to jump or not, and then hope the guy behind them also sees it and doesn't jump onto them. 

 

What if the downed rider was landed on because of riders not seeing the flag?  For so many top guys to have jumped it and not seen the flag, SOMETHING was wrong. This time it only resulted in lost positions. But it could have been bad. They really should do something different in the future to prevent a possible disaster. Even if it was on the other side of the jump it would have been safer.  As a local B level rider, I have missed many flags.  missed the white flag ,  I talked to a local pro level guy and he too thought it would be very hard to see intime. And that it should have been in the corner before. 

Take Jett out of it, and his penalty out of it . You could have had Jett land on the downed rider and medics because of a poorly placed flag. I totally understand giving out the penalty, But the purpose of the flag is to  warn the rider. And so many guys missed it. Or did not see it until it was too late. Even if they were just coming up with an excuse. Warning earlier than they did would improve safety for everybody all around.     

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NateDawg241
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4/1/2024 10:17am
Moto_Geek wrote:
I hope the teams APPEAL this.. but unfortunately it is out on the right. I like the one way radio idea RC mentioned on a post...

I hope the teams APPEAL this.. but unfortunately it is out on the right.

I like the one way radio idea RC mentioned on a post of telling riders of issues on the track. All professional road races use this technology now. Would improve safety as well making riders aware of cautions or situations like this one.   

Your comment in bold isn't true in any way whatsoever. Helmet communication is NOT used in MotoGP, WorldSBK, MotoAmerica, etc. Don't know where you're getting that notion from but it's wrong. 

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Shred
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4/1/2024 10:39am
Moto_Geek wrote:
I hope the teams APPEAL this.. but unfortunately it is out on the right. I like the one way radio idea RC mentioned on a post...

I hope the teams APPEAL this.. but unfortunately it is out on the right.

I like the one way radio idea RC mentioned on a post of telling riders of issues on the track. All professional road races use this technology now. Would improve safety as well making riders aware of cautions or situations like this one.   

Your comment in bold isn't true in any way whatsoever. Helmet communication is NOT used in MotoGP, WorldSBK, MotoAmerica, etc. Don't know where you're getting that...

Your comment in bold isn't true in any way whatsoever. Helmet communication is NOT used in MotoGP, WorldSBK, MotoAmerica, etc. Don't know where you're getting that notion from but it's wrong. 

I would actually love to see it. It should be 100% available to the fans and broadcast.  F1 comm is great to hear.  The fact we use pit boards is laughable.  They are often on a part of the track where the rider is focused on the track and doesn’t/can’t take time to look up and read a board.  Of all the dumb ass things Feld does to try to draw viewers, like SMX double and triple points, this is actually something that would bring excitement and entertainment to the races.  As long as everyone has it then why not?  Hell….HRC is already using covert comm in Jett’s helmet to help him.

.

just a joke….calm down.

TheMilkman
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4/1/2024 11:00am
300exc wrote:

There was a yellow flag prior to the turn leading up to the finish.

17 riders of all abilities saw the medic flag and responded appropriately.

Also your approximation of 17 is incorrect. Jett, Sexton, Webb, AP and JA were all penalized. But there is video evidence of Chiz, Hill and Clason doing the same. Not sure why they weren’t penalized as well. So that is a total of 8 that can be confirmed who jumped on the Red Cross. 
 

AC didn’t start. Oldenburg crashed out. Vince was sitting on the side of the track watching the chaos. So that means a maximum of 11 riders rolled the jump. May have been more that weren’t caught on video.

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