AMA Pro MX vs. MXGP - F.M.O.T.P debate >>>>

Ozy
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Please keep in mind that until there two series go head to head more than 1x a year this debate is only for fun and speculative . . .

My take for 2023 is that the MXGP guys have AMA Pro covered relatively easy.

Lawrence and Prado dominated their respective series (Prado not as much as Jettson) Febvre came back from an injury and based on the speed he raced the last 7 - 8 MXGP's has to be in the conversation. Prado happily split moto wins with Febvre giving the overall wins to Romain but the points gap stayed around 102 point in Prados favor until the 3rd from last round

Positions 3-5 would probably favor AMA Pro racers over MXGP; this is a dificult statement since Herlings was out and Tiga was riding to stay safe and get some laps under his belt

 

MXoN is really not a good barometer for AMA Pro and MXGP head to head since they have differ3ent motives basesd on their teams chance to hoist the Chamberlain Trophy

For 2023 I would have to give Prado the FMOTP nod since he faced Febvre the last 8 MXGP rounds and came out on top. Jettson probably has the skills and speed to go head to head with Prado but AMA Pro field was severely depleted. <-- because of this fact Jettson didn't have to ride the limits week in and out like Prado did (who kept in on 2 wheels to his first World Title.

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zehn
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10/10/2023 1:20pm

k

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10/10/2023 1:33pm

The only way to properly make this happen is they need to get the top 5 in each respective series, and build 3 brand new tracks with different soil types so it’s all unfamiliar territory. And have them do a race. 

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aees
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10/10/2023 1:34pm

I think the conclusion is that the top riders in the two series are very similar in speed, with MXGP having more possible winners (6-8) for each round than AMA (3-4).

Prado was on cruise control since round two due to point situation. Prado also himself said he used MXoN for testing 2024 setups and added that had he been on his 2023 MXGP setup, there was more to get from him.

I think Jett is a step above everyone right now, not in peak speed, but in keeping the speed needed for 35min without accidents. I see only Prado that can match him in that over a season. Maybe Herlings Ina good year. But in general Herlings, Fever, Gajser just keeps crashing when they have to push. Same as Sexton. 

 

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Mavetism
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10/10/2023 2:00pm

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DonM
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10/10/2023 2:07pm

Great debate don't think I've ever seen this discussed before....I believe that this post officially puts us firmly in the off-season...Oh joy....

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Falcon
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10/10/2023 3:06pm

Like you said, the MXdN isn't a great way to measure. However, Jett won his second moto and put a beat-down of a last-corner pass on Gajser in the first after cutting through the entire field. 

Just fueling the fire that is the off-season argument. 

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truck
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10/10/2023 3:13pm

If you're telling me you'd take Prado over Jett head to head on some kind of neutral track I'll gladly take that bet. Would take the bet for Sexton as well. 

I don't think this debate is as close as people want it to be. 

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1
10/10/2023 3:15pm
Ozy wrote:
Please keep in mind that until there two series go head to head more than 1x a year this debate is only for fun and speculative...

Please keep in mind that until there two series go head to head more than 1x a year this debate is only for fun and speculative . . .

My take for 2023 is that the MXGP guys have AMA Pro covered relatively easy.

Lawrence and Prado dominated their respective series (Prado not as much as Jettson) Febvre came back from an injury and based on the speed he raced the last 7 - 8 MXGP's has to be in the conversation. Prado happily split moto wins with Febvre giving the overall wins to Romain but the points gap stayed around 102 point in Prados favor until the 3rd from last round

Positions 3-5 would probably favor AMA Pro racers over MXGP; this is a dificult statement since Herlings was out and Tiga was riding to stay safe and get some laps under his belt

 

MXoN is really not a good barometer for AMA Pro and MXGP head to head since they have differ3ent motives basesd on their teams chance to hoist the Chamberlain Trophy

For 2023 I would have to give Prado the FMOTP nod since he faced Febvre the last 8 MXGP rounds and came out on top. Jettson probably has the skills and speed to go head to head with Prado but AMA Pro field was severely depleted. <-- because of this fact Jettson didn't have to ride the limits week in and out like Prado did (who kept in on 2 wheels to his first World Title.

So Jett raced a severely depleted field did he? The only person missing was Tomac the one round Kenny raced Jett beat him after crashing and coming back to pass him and Chase was there for the majority of the season. Jett wasn’t given anything he earned his perfect season which is more impressive than Prado’s defending of his massive points lead. 

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Echo
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10/10/2023 3:17pm

If anything, mxon cemented just how far Jett is above the rest

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truck
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10/10/2023 3:56pm
Echo wrote:

If anything, mxon cemented just how far Jett is above the rest

Not only that, but Roczen ran with anyone there and is 3rd or 4th fastest guy on healthy AMA circuit. 

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studworx
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10/10/2023 4:08pm
Ozy wrote:
Please keep in mind that until there two series go head to head more than 1x a year this debate is only for fun and speculative...

Please keep in mind that until there two series go head to head more than 1x a year this debate is only for fun and speculative . . .

My take for 2023 is that the MXGP guys have AMA Pro covered relatively easy.

Lawrence and Prado dominated their respective series (Prado not as much as Jettson) Febvre came back from an injury and based on the speed he raced the last 7 - 8 MXGP's has to be in the conversation. Prado happily split moto wins with Febvre giving the overall wins to Romain but the points gap stayed around 102 point in Prados favor until the 3rd from last round

Positions 3-5 would probably favor AMA Pro racers over MXGP; this is a dificult statement since Herlings was out and Tiga was riding to stay safe and get some laps under his belt

 

MXoN is really not a good barometer for AMA Pro and MXGP head to head since they have differ3ent motives basesd on their teams chance to hoist the Chamberlain Trophy

For 2023 I would have to give Prado the FMOTP nod since he faced Febvre the last 8 MXGP rounds and came out on top. Jettson probably has the skills and speed to go head to head with Prado but AMA Pro field was severely depleted. <-- because of this fact Jettson didn't have to ride the limits week in and out like Prado did (who kept in on 2 wheels to his first World Title.

So Jett raced a severely depleted field did he? The only person missing was Tomac the one round Kenny raced Jett beat him after crashing and...

So Jett raced a severely depleted field did he? The only person missing was Tomac the one round Kenny raced Jett beat him after crashing and coming back to pass him and Chase was there for the majority of the season. Jett wasn’t given anything he earned his perfect season which is more impressive than Prado’s defending of his massive points lead. 

Was more the circumstances of Jett’s field. Most of everybody was there. But also most coming back from injury or currently injured..

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jemcee
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10/10/2023 4:38pm
 

 

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Wolverine
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10/10/2023 7:32pm

Why is this a question? Not open for dispute is that US National series riders topped the MX2 and MXGP classes at this years MXoN. Even better they took 2 of three podium spots in each class . This is with Eli and Sexton on the sidelines and US Nat Pros in the minority.

Let's not forget US series pro's in '22 also swept the MX2 overall podium, it's sole entrant (Eli) took 2nd in MXGP and, Jett and Sexton went 1-2 in the Open division. 

You can't look at these results and believe there any question as to competitiveness. 

 

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CPR
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10/10/2023 8:12pm Edited Date/Time 10/10/2023 8:16pm

I just like how people are using an Aussie and a German, with an honourable mention for a Frenchy, as the best argument for the US series 😂

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Phil109
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10/10/2023 8:13pm

You can speculate all you want but you will never change either sides mind. If you think one is faster than the other you will always be able to find some sort of comparison to prove your point. Guess what. Those that believe one way or the other won’t care and will still believe what they want to believe. Good luck fishing. 

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ando
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10/10/2023 8:31pm
Wolverine wrote:
Why is this a question? Not open for dispute is that US National series riders topped the MX2 and MXGP classes at this years MXoN. Even...

Why is this a question? Not open for dispute is that US National series riders topped the MX2 and MXGP classes at this years MXoN. Even better they took 2 of three podium spots in each class . This is with Eli and Sexton on the sidelines and US Nat Pros in the minority.

Let's not forget US series pro's in '22 also swept the MX2 overall podium, it's sole entrant (Eli) took 2nd in MXGP and, Jett and Sexton went 1-2 in the Open division. 

You can't look at these results and believe there any question as to competitiveness. 

 

Those guys aren't a product of the US Nationals, they just happen to race there.  

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10/10/2023 9:04pm

Prado wasn't even the fastest man in MXGP this year, I'd probably give that to Febvre.

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Shred
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10/10/2023 9:42pm

Historically the case is stronger for AMA riders being better.  Look at all the MXGP and MXGP2 champions that came over here.  They were mostly dominated in outdoors…forget SX.  It’s funny because when MXdN comes around it’s like 30 European countries vs the USA (sorry Canada and Latin am) and if the US doesn’t win, which they have won more then anybody, then they suck.  Listen…the flow of Champions is in one direction….to the premier series.

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aledei
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10/10/2023 9:50pm
Shred wrote:
Historically the case is stronger for AMA riders being better.  Look at all the MXGP and MXGP2 champions that came over here.  They were mostly dominated...

Historically the case is stronger for AMA riders being better.  Look at all the MXGP and MXGP2 champions that came over here.  They were mostly dominated in outdoors…forget SX.  It’s funny because when MXdN comes around it’s like 30 European countries vs the USA (sorry Canada and Latin am) and if the US doesn’t win, which they have won more then anybody, then they suck.  Listen…the flow of Champions is in one direction….to the premier series.

Ask Villopoto, he know the answer.

Please do not ask Herlings

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Radical
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10/10/2023 9:59pm

They're all badasses

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ando
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10/10/2023 10:33pm
Shred wrote:
Historically the case is stronger for AMA riders being better.  Look at all the MXGP and MXGP2 champions that came over here.  They were mostly dominated...

Historically the case is stronger for AMA riders being better.  Look at all the MXGP and MXGP2 champions that came over here.  They were mostly dominated in outdoors…forget SX.  It’s funny because when MXdN comes around it’s like 30 European countries vs the USA (sorry Canada and Latin am) and if the US doesn’t win, which they have won more then anybody, then they suck.  Listen…the flow of Champions is in one direction….to the premier series.

There hasn’t been an MXGP champion move to the US for over 25 years.

Most of the MX2 champions have done pretty well - Langston, Townley, Pourcel, Roczen, Musquin.

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10/10/2023 11:24pm

Does this stupid debate exist in other motorsports?

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10/11/2023 1:57am Edited Date/Time 10/11/2023 2:00am

Does this stupid debate exist in other motorsports?

Nope, I can’t think of any of sport where a country instead of joining the international series, instead stays at home then claims to be the best at things. Quite strange isn’t it.

But it’s not actually the riders fault, or the fans. For some reason the very highest powers that be don’t want this debate to ever be truest settled. I mean all you gotta do is combine a few races either side of the pond, factory guys elite league or something. Not hard if you have the passion for the sport. 

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64smoker
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10/11/2023 2:46am

Comes down to different eras , USA had a wave with RC stew villipoto etc which were insane , the last decade 9/10 mxon's have been won by European teams/riders .

Regardless of what side your on its sad the promoters can never come together and give us the best against the best 

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10/11/2023 3:41am

Super original thread. What's everyone take on Tomac vs Herlings?

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aees
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10/11/2023 3:57am
truck wrote:
If you're telling me you'd take Prado over Jett head to head on some kind of neutral track I'll gladly take that bet. Would take the...

If you're telling me you'd take Prado over Jett head to head on some kind of neutral track I'll gladly take that bet. Would take the bet for Sexton as well. 

I don't think this debate is as close as people want it to be. 

I said Prado can match him consistently. Starts is a part racing and Jett is not where Prado is on that. Looking at the Motos, gap was about the same to Ken which matched Jett in speed in nationals. So saying both Fevre and Prado has the speed is fair. Specially with what Prado said for his 2024 setup not being as good as 2023.

Quali race was just 20min, Prado won it. Jett second. Starts.

Prado on existing 2023 setup, mix in some sand tracks and I think it is a 50/50 scenario for a season.

It's difficult, never ever a real comparable scenario. You can argue for that Jett came through the back better, but also that Prado had a year where he since april did not have to push as much as Sexton and Jett. Jett had the SMX rounds to think about.

Clear is, no one goes consistently 1-2sec faster while keeping it on two wheels for a season, if you look globally at riders available.

Herlings has said his 2018 form was impossible to sustain the amount he trained and that's the only one I see that could take a step above even Jett. It's like Sexton, can be faster but will crash holding that pace.

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10/11/2023 4:35am

They will all follow the money. 
GPs need to up the purse money or you will have more and more riders leaving that poorly organized series for the one that pays more. 
 

It’s no different than taking a higher paid job. 
 

Again, no one cares where you were born. Why does that even matter. We just want the best riders to compete and money is the bait. 
 

Also, please realize that we have major Pro sports with teams in each state/city. That makes a difference in one’s view of traveling internationally and the pay scale. 

*The theme is the organizers need to pay athletes more to compete. 
 

 

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GrapeApe
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10/11/2023 5:23am Edited Date/Time 10/11/2023 7:17am
CPR wrote:
I just like how people are using an Aussie and a German, with an honourable mention for a Frenchy, as the best argument for the US...

I just like how people are using an Aussie and a German, with an honourable mention for a Frenchy, as the best argument for the US series 😂

Yep, we're pretty lucky that AMA attracts talent from all continents. Looking forward to Prado, the Coenen bros, Benistant and de Wolf in the next few years. Tiger Wood looks to be the next fast Aussie and he has already been here 5 years preparing for his AMA debut.

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moto111
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10/11/2023 5:42am
Wolverine wrote:
Why is this a question? Not open for dispute is that US National series riders topped the MX2 and MXGP classes at this years MXoN. Even...

Why is this a question? Not open for dispute is that US National series riders topped the MX2 and MXGP classes at this years MXoN. Even better they took 2 of three podium spots in each class . This is with Eli and Sexton on the sidelines and US Nat Pros in the minority.

Let's not forget US series pro's in '22 also swept the MX2 overall podium, it's sole entrant (Eli) took 2nd in MXGP and, Jett and Sexton went 1-2 in the Open division. 

You can't look at these results and believe there any question as to competitiveness. 

 

ando wrote:

Those guys aren't a product of the US Nationals, they just happen to race there.  

I disagree. 

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