Why does it make sense for ktm to have so many "brands"?

2/3/2022 3:46pm Edited Date/Time 2/3/2022 4:00pm
It allows them to set up more dealers. It would be hard for them to justify to their existing dealer network the need for 3 KTM dealers in a small metro. Three brands of the same thing. Problem solved.
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Phillip_Lamb
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2/3/2022 3:48pm
JustMX wrote:
Seriously, why aquire husky and gas gas and continuing to sell them under their brand names even though most of the technology is the same. Why...
Seriously, why aquire husky and gas gas and continuing to sell them under their brand names even though most of the technology is the same.

Why not sell them all under ktm to dominate the market share and have a stronger dealer network?

Why have redundancy in r&d and marketing?

I am just curious what the positives are for continuing down that road.
same reason there is honda/acura, ford/lincoln, GM/Chevy, Nissan/Infiniti etc. people like choices and different trim levels.

if you line all three up, they are all KTM's, but GasGas is the "budget" line, KTM is the "race" line, and Husky is the "boutique" line.

for ktm, it allows them to cover a more of the market and pull in guys who dont like orange.
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yak651
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2/3/2022 3:53pm
I've heard from a dealer's standpoint that the KTM group can be very difficult to work with. Husqvarna cancelled a few of their dealers in Canada...
I've heard from a dealer's standpoint that the KTM group can be very difficult to work with. Husqvarna cancelled a few of their dealers in Canada recently and it's caused a bit of noise. I've observed dealers bring in KTM in then after a few years they don't sell them anymore. Can anyone with experience care to elaborate?
KTM dealer and Husky dealer here both gave up their franchise due to both making the purchase a bunch of models they can’t easily sell. Kinda a crappy deal but they are doing fine without them…

As for the original question to me it would make more sense for them to consolidate into a marquee brand and an economy brand
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bestmx
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2/3/2022 4:13pm
Thread about KTM having so many brands, so lets suggest another one.. @JustMX be like;



I've said it in another thread, but what I find strange is that they haven't yet considered resurrecting Husaberg (assuming they still own it).

I'd say Gasgas' success as a brand in terms of sales etc are a good indicator that perhaps, as some have said "yellow KTM's" could be another point in the market for the KTM group.
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The Shop

kpiper
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2/3/2022 5:25pm
KTM, the orange bikes anyway, are just another brand at the local megaplex these days. It seems as KTM got more successful, they turned their back...
KTM, the orange bikes anyway, are just another brand at the local megaplex these days. It seems as KTM got more successful, they turned their back on the little mom and pop shops who helped put them on the map.

My local KTM dealer was an old school hole in the wall shop, owned by an enthusiast who raced and his family raced. KTM wanted him to invest big money in a new building. He let his franchise go and the local megaplex picked it up.

Sad but seems to be true. Forget who brought you to the dance.
DC193
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2/3/2022 6:15pm
gt80rider wrote:
as a marketing specialist..... it makes ZERO sense.. you NEVER want to "compete against yourself"....but they seem to have never learned this lesson... KTM marketing is...
as a marketing specialist..... it makes ZERO sense.. you NEVER want to "compete against yourself"....but they seem to have never learned this lesson... KTM marketing is a mixed bag... they pay the big bucks to get top shelf riders and championships... but other than that, every part of their marketing is a complete, utter, trainwreck.... they consistently blow millions that aren't needed, while also leaving millions on the table... amazing how poorly a company can be ran and still make a profit now days....

As a guy who just bought a brand new GasGas 450 (first ever brand new bike in 26 years of riding MX), to replace my 2016 Husky 350, you're just wrong.

I loved my Husky 350, engine size was great (and unique in the market), ergonomics were great, you could see the better engineering and quality in the machine itself, and changing air filters was a snap compared to my previous japanese bikes (and this is not a hard thing for the japs to adapt to, evidenced by Kawasaki now doing it)

I wanted all that again in my new bike, but I don't have KTM money. Did I need a fancy map switch and traction control ? No. Do I care about billet clamps ? No. Black rims ? cant see them when i'm riding. But i get a KTM engine, KTM frame, KTM suspension, KTM light weight, without the bells and whistles that the next guy is going to want (and happy to spend extra on). They now have two sections of the market (not to mention Husky too), with the development costs of one.

Aside from the above, the actual news of KTM buying Husqvarna, and then buying Gasgas, created content for the various motocross media people around the world - creating a whole bunch of free publicity, and online marketing real-estate, for the KTM group that didn't cost them extra.

Buying multiple brands also adds credence to the argument that KTM cares more about the MX market than Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki/Yamaha. Is the Suzuki a good enough bike for me? Sure. Am I going to buy one ? No, and part of that reason is that I can see Suzuki doesn't care much for this market, indicated clearly by the R&D (or lack thereof) that Suzuki is spending on MX.
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DC193
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2/3/2022 6:41pm

Don't forget the racing angle too, more brands (each with a factory team), the more riders. You'll never see a 9 man KTM squad, but you can see 3 riders on each of the 3 teams.

Your kid loves Mookie, or Barcia ? Then he/she wants a Husky or Gasgas to look like them, then grows up on the brand.
KurtJ99
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2/3/2022 6:44pm
GrapeApe wrote:
To save us from a full gate of orange bikes
I sure liked seeing gates full of yellow Suzukis in the early 80s. It’s not a bad thing.
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DonM
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2/3/2022 6:45pm
gt80rider wrote:
as a marketing specialist..... it makes ZERO sense.. you NEVER want to "compete against yourself"....but they seem to have never learned this lesson... KTM marketing is...
as a marketing specialist..... it makes ZERO sense.. you NEVER want to "compete against yourself"....but they seem to have never learned this lesson... KTM marketing is a mixed bag... they pay the big bucks to get top shelf riders and championships... but other than that, every part of their marketing is a complete, utter, trainwreck.... they consistently blow millions that aren't needed, while also leaving millions on the table... amazing how poorly a company can be ran and still make a profit now days....
Sometimes I think you just spout off with no thought…other times I think you are the biggest troll on Vital that has a goal to be the most downvoted person here….
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KirkChandler
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2/3/2022 7:27pm
One of the reasons I heard, but not confirmed, for the multiple brands is due to import and tariff limitations, say the limit is 10,000 units per manufacture per year and then you go into a higher tax/tarif bracket, so you sell 9,999 KTMs, 9,999 Husky’s, 9,999 Gas Gas, etc and keep your base lower.
kb228
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2/3/2022 7:31pm
gt80rider wrote:
as a marketing specialist..... it makes ZERO sense.. you NEVER want to "compete against yourself"....but they seem to have never learned this lesson... KTM marketing is...
as a marketing specialist..... it makes ZERO sense.. you NEVER want to "compete against yourself"....but they seem to have never learned this lesson... KTM marketing is a mixed bag... they pay the big bucks to get top shelf riders and championships... but other than that, every part of their marketing is a complete, utter, trainwreck.... they consistently blow millions that aren't needed, while also leaving millions on the table... amazing how poorly a company can be ran and still make a profit now days....
…..what?
mxtech1
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2/3/2022 8:30pm
Pierer Mobility ultimately reaps the profits from all 3 brands. They control the sales ratio by the yearly production volume. Not sure how they determine the overall volume of each, but I can assure you they aren’t “competing” against each other. Business decisions are made at the executive levels, the individual brands are merely executing the yearly goals.

Sometimes it’s smarter (faster, cheaper, & easier) to just buy the competitive brands and make them a subsidiary then it is to “squash” them. I think it makes a lot of sense in the fact that they exponentially increased their manufacturing capability, technology, labor force, and global supply chain with the purchase of Husqvarna and GasGas, which also sent a strong signal to Japanese OEMs that they were willing to restructure their operating model to fain market share.

One thing to keep in mind was the GasGas merger was not clean. The GasGas employees despised KTM and made it very clear when they were bought out that nothing less than a hostile takeover was going to be required to switch them over.
canuck250f
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2/3/2022 8:46pm
gt80rider wrote:
as a marketing specialist..... it makes ZERO sense.. you NEVER want to "compete against yourself"....but they seem to have never learned this lesson... KTM marketing is...
as a marketing specialist..... it makes ZERO sense.. you NEVER want to "compete against yourself"....but they seem to have never learned this lesson... KTM marketing is a mixed bag... they pay the big bucks to get top shelf riders and championships... but other than that, every part of their marketing is a complete, utter, trainwreck.... they consistently blow millions that aren't needed, while also leaving millions on the table... amazing how poorly a company can be ran and still make a profit now days....
Huh……what……wait a minute I almost got sucked in there for a minute. 🤦🏼‍♂️
user760a
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2/3/2022 8:53pm Edited Date/Time 2/3/2022 8:54pm
What's really funny is that KTM has 50's , 65's, 85's , 125's, 150's, 250F,s 250T"s 300's 350's 450's, 500's in all different colors and they are kicking ass. ....meanwhile Japan, Inc. is over here saying "oh no no no no , we can't have a 350. That would eat into our 450 sales "

LOL.....what stupid rational . Stupid and invalid
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2/4/2022 12:41am
DonM wrote:
Sometimes I think you just spout off with no thought…other times I think you are the biggest troll on Vital that has a goal to be...
Sometimes I think you just spout off with no thought…other times I think you are the biggest troll on Vital that has a goal to be the most downvoted person here….
Completely unnecessary comment.
Why do some people have to be like this?
Personal attacks add nothing to the forum.
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CPR
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2/4/2022 2:00am
Look at KTM 10 years ago, look at the brand now. Has it worked?
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TBOLTUSA
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2/4/2022 2:49am
KTM group has 3 factory teams running with more factory riders than any other OEM
to me that is good for the sport !!

Also
Them GASGAS bike just look so good !!
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wrc777
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2/4/2022 5:27am
Let's say KTM wanted to compete with the Japanese bikes on price. They don't want to cut the pricing on the existing orange or white bikes because customers who already bought would be mad and they were selling well at the existing prices so why lose profit for no reason. I think it was better to take a relatively unknown brand and make that the value brand. It also gives another color option and some people don't like orange or white bikes. The big KTM/Husky dealer in this state told me they were not thrilled about adding Gasgas because they already had KTM/Husky, but they now have new customers buying Gasgas that would have only considered Japanese bikes before due to the price.

I don't think KTM will be selling Suzukis anytime soon. That may not be because KTM has no interest in it, but Suzuki as a company isn't going anywhere so their name will not be for sale like Gasgas and Husky were.
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DonM
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2/4/2022 5:57am
DonM wrote:
Sometimes I think you just spout off with no thought…other times I think you are the biggest troll on Vital that has a goal to be...
Sometimes I think you just spout off with no thought…other times I think you are the biggest troll on Vital that has a goal to be the most downvoted person here….
Completely unnecessary comment.
Why do some people have to be like this?
Personal attacks add nothing to the forum.
Yeah ok….I call out a perennial troll and you think it’s a personal attack…
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soggy
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2/4/2022 6:11am
DonM wrote:
Sometimes I think you just spout off with no thought…other times I think you are the biggest troll on Vital that has a goal to be...
Sometimes I think you just spout off with no thought…other times I think you are the biggest troll on Vital that has a goal to be the most downvoted person here….
Completely unnecessary comment.
Why do some people have to be like this?
Personal attacks add nothing to the forum.
Don’t worry buddy your right on gt80’s rear fender setting up a block pass for the next corner.

That guy deserved that comment. Notice he hasn’t come back to defend his wildly speculative viewpoint
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MX915
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2/4/2022 6:26am
soggy wrote:
Don’t worry buddy your right on gt80’s rear fender setting up a block pass for the next corner. That guy deserved that comment. Notice he hasn’t...
Don’t worry buddy your right on gt80’s rear fender setting up a block pass for the next corner.

That guy deserved that comment. Notice he hasn’t come back to defend his wildly speculative viewpoint
He’s still sitting by the phone waiting for KTM customer service to call him back.
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AH387
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2/4/2022 6:42am Edited Date/Time 2/4/2022 6:47am
I can see both sides of the debate. In a way, by them expanding, from a racing perspective, they are getting so much more attention on their product just because they can hire so many more riders and have different teams. It's certainly a ton more exposure, as far as racing and media. And it's good for the overall health of the sport, in that way. But it is also kind of tough to have a sport that thrives on competition and try to brand 3 different "levels" of the same product (especially Gasgas as the entry/budget brand) and then turn around and have those race against (and sometimes beat) your primary brand (KTM.) So I dunno lol.
-MAVERICK-
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2/4/2022 6:50am
DonM wrote:
Sometimes I think you just spout off with no thought…other times I think you are the biggest troll on Vital that has a goal to be...
Sometimes I think you just spout off with no thought…other times I think you are the biggest troll on Vital that has a goal to be the most downvoted person here….
Completely unnecessary comment.
Why do some people have to be like this?
Personal attacks add nothing to the forum.
Personal attack?

All DonM said was that he thinks he's a troll, not that he is a troll.

There's a difference.
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Bearuno
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2/4/2022 6:55am
wrc777 wrote:
Let's say KTM wanted to compete with the Japanese bikes on price. They don't want to cut the pricing on the existing orange or white bikes...
Let's say KTM wanted to compete with the Japanese bikes on price. They don't want to cut the pricing on the existing orange or white bikes because customers who already bought would be mad and they were selling well at the existing prices so why lose profit for no reason. I think it was better to take a relatively unknown brand and make that the value brand. It also gives another color option and some people don't like orange or white bikes. The big KTM/Husky dealer in this state told me they were not thrilled about adding Gasgas because they already had KTM/Husky, but they now have new customers buying Gasgas that would have only considered Japanese bikes before due to the price.

I don't think KTM will be selling Suzukis anytime soon. That may not be because KTM has no interest in it, but Suzuki as a company isn't going anywhere so their name will not be for sale like Gasgas and Husky were.
Hehe, Heh, it might seem I'm pursuing you, wrc777 (re my reply to you on another thread), but, I'm really not.

Yup, your first paragraph is spot on. Easy 'diversification', with really, buggerall to No major changes, and through that, reaching buyers who may well never want an 'Orange bike'. Made on the same production lines / same factory (ies), with regards to the Austrian facilities, well other than the Gas Gas Trials bikes , which still remain in production in Spain. They've got several sites away from Austria for full ( eg: Bajaj for the 125 through to 390 4ts, and that produces over 100,00 KTMs and now Husky 401 Svartpilens / Vitpilens) and partial builds, and, a few more factories for CKDs, across the world now. Their 790 and 890 and the 901 KTHusky engines, are made in China.

But, the often mooted "KTM will buy Suzuki" that I see here on this site - not bloody likely. For the reason you put forward, and, that Suzuki sell near on 4 times the number of bikes ( near 1.2 million, in a Top Ten 2021 bike sellers article in ADVrider.com , by Peter 'The Bear' Thoeming, though he snaffled info from Motorrad for the article ) than KTM. That some people think KTM are bigger than Suzuki, well, silly blighters do exist.

Hell, there's a complete F***wit on another site, that styles himself as an important "Insider", that has regularly said that Harley will buy out Hondas Motorcycle division. Honda had sales of 13.8 Million Bikes last year........

And, in the Top Ten, there's a Mexican manufacturer, Italika, that sold over 900,000 bikes in 2021.
TeamGreen
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2/4/2022 8:21am
Here's an explanation everyone can understand and relate to.

There's a dealer in Redding, California, Fator's KTM Husqvarna GasGas Suzuki.

When they added GasGas, and that took a little convincing from KTM N.A. & a few of their friends, anyways...when they added GasGas, they added a line of bikes that competed DIRECTLY with "The Japanese Brands PRICE-WISE".
The MC125 goes right up against the YZ 125.
The MC250F goes right up against the Japanese 250Fs...etc.
Even better than that! Is this...they got...they get...a set of off-road bikes at a better price than KTM & Husky -YET- it's the same basic bike as the KTM-Husky!
(I bought the GG EC300 for quite a bit less than the "white" one...so, I've seen this savings myself!).

They got MORE bikes this way, too. That was very nice when the COVID madness hit and EVERYONE was scrambling for bikes...Fator's got more Minis, more Electrics (Those went out the door surprisingly quick)...more of EVERYTHING. In their neck of the woods, Off-Road 2Ts are very popular...they got PLENTY of them from the GG line when they really, really NEEDED THEM.

They've even sold their Trials bikes surprisingly well for Northern California...where trials isn't real popular...yet.

1. A New Brand for the KTM/Husky dealers that's directly "price competitive" with the Japanese brands.
2. More bikes at a time when they really needed them.
3. Additional parts availability.
4. Another Gear & Accessories opportunity. Hell, I have the new TLD GG gear bag (NICE!) and some of the apparel, myself.


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2/4/2022 11:40am
Its not just about having different colours of the same bike. By buying the brand they bought access to hundreds or thousands of extra dealerships across the world.
All of these dealerships serve there local communities & many have very loyal customers who will only buy from that dealership. Get a quality product in as many stores & shop windows as you can & sales will rise.
Brent
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2/4/2022 1:34pm Edited Date/Time 2/4/2022 1:43pm
JustMX wrote:
Seriously, why aquire husky and gas gas and continuing to sell them under their brand names even though most of the technology is the same. Why...
Seriously, why aquire husky and gas gas and continuing to sell them under their brand names even though most of the technology is the same.

Why not sell them all under ktm to dominate the market share and have a stronger dealer network?

Why have redundancy in r&d and marketing?

I am just curious what the positives are for continuing down that road.
That is a damn good question.

Go ask your local Lincoln Mercury dealer, or your Lexus dealer, or the local Infiniti dealer, or the GMC Guys, or your local Cadillac Dealer?

Those guys may know...
toomanykaws
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2/4/2022 2:58pm
I started buying KTM’s when the dealer also sold Husaberg. I ended up with two KTM’s and a Berg. Was soon up to five bergs. Back down to three now. Love them. When Berg turned into Husky. Sold some of my Japanese bikes and bought the killer white framed nicely equipped Huskies. Now have more AUS bikes than the Japan models. Can’t see myself buying another. Mainly the quality of the components on the KTM/Husky is a bit above all four Japanese brands. They are easy to work on for me anyways.

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