STARK FUTURE VARG - An Electric Bike that is Faster and Lighter than a 450?

PJRAUS
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PJRAUS 12/17/2021 5:34am
12/17/2021 5:34am Edited Date/Time 12/17/2021 6:56pm
PJRAUS wrote:
People are losing their minds over this bike already! The haters are imaging all kinds of reasons why it will be bad, why it will fail...
People are losing their minds over this bike already! The haters are imaging all kinds of reasons why it will be bad, why it will fail, how they will walk away from the sport because of these bikes...
The lovers are just salivating over everything about it!
Watching the raw video with Josh Hill, didn't do me any good at alll...all I can think about now is the 10 month expected wait till I get mine and all the things I have to do to get ready..3 tracks to set up...all natural terrain with a bit of earth works here and there...one track with a hose based watering system to use over the height of summer..early morning motos on a watered track..also planning portable solar charged ,battery powered track lighting that I can move between tracks...all things I would have done here already if not for the 4 houses within a radius of 150 to 500 metres of where these tracks will be..until the emx bikes become a reality...there is simply no point in even thinking about it.
I was so excited to see that Yamaha chassis based EMX powertrain prototype..but there hasnt been much from them lately.
Hopefully the covid fuckwits running the world dont shut down Europe again next year so that these things can get built and shipped!
My work productivity has declined a lot this week...I expect it will stay flat for a long time...I cant concentrate on my job...I just think about this new bike ,the tracks im gonna have and all the moto's im going to get to do...
fs wrote:
Your post put smiles on our faces and made our day a little bit nicer.

Thank you,

Stark Varg electronics team
My pleasure! I meant what I said. This is a dream come true for me...Im going to be very busy over winter here in Australia ,getting my tracks all ready...my watering system, my portable solar powered lighting system.
I am going to set aside some $$ to get a really good video guy to put together a YouTube video of me enjoying the freediom and excitement of my Stark Varg...
I will,post it and hope that you see it and derive great satisfaction from knowing what you have achieved and what its going to mean to so many crazy moto heads like me...
I was down the back paddock tonight after work..just visualising a new track, and I swear the noise from the cockatoos, corellas and cicadas was unbelievably loud...nobody complains about them....and nobody will ever hear me riding my Stark Varg!
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Bearuno
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Bearuno 12/18/2021 5:03am
12/18/2021 5:03am
Here's another take on an E Motorcycle. E Motion have been around a few years, Trials Tube
tested the 2021 model only recently, and this is of the 2022 model.

:https://youtu.be/QaMa21bpcNg

As he says, it's Not aToy. This has a clutch, and now a regenerative brake. He is a bit skeptical of it at first - I'm sure they will work out better levers. I run a brake and a clutch lever, that I made the lever set ups for, and they can be easily / naturally used at the same time, unlike so many peoples LHRB and Clutch abominations. But, he tries it, and likes it.

He didn't explain the 'tick over ' feature, ( I may have missed it, I was attacked by a small, ferocious human being, while watching the video) but I think it's about being able to have the motor turning over, all the time. I'd say it would help with stability during balancing maneuvers, and be more like what we ICE users are more used to, with clutch engagement and take up at the rear wheel, but, that's just me guessing / theorizing.

And, for the drongos who throw out the "Electric won't handle water", well, that's utter BS, as shown in this video.

Trial Tube is a Great YouTube channel, they / he tests a lot of bikes, and they / he do it really well.
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Pyry
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Pyry 12/18/2021 8:02am
12/18/2021 8:02am
I like this Swedish Steve Jobs better than I liked the original. His phone comes with a dirt bike.
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FWYT
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FWYT 12/18/2021 8:05am
12/18/2021 8:05am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Josh Hill talking about the bike.
Josh Hill talking about the bike.

Damn! You know, I never heard anyone that actually rode an Alta say anything other than great things about it. And so to have Hill freaking out about this bike... That says a whole lot!
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hanzhonglboy1
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hanzhonglboy1 12/18/2021 8:50am
12/18/2021 8:50am
Silas444 wrote:
I'm not trying to enter into a scrape with you here Johnny Ringo, I know we've found common ground in that they'll always dislike us because...
I'm not trying to enter into a scrape with you here Johnny Ringo, I know we've found common ground in that they'll always dislike us because they see us for the reckless hooligans we are - BUT - noise has been their weapon of choice and they've been really good at using it against us. Electric bikes disable that weapon, so they'll have to go after us using far less effective weaponry, and that can only be a good thing.

At 60, my riding horizon has obviously begun to narrow. I've got far more laps behind me than in front of me. I've commented more on this new bike than I have on ANY other thread since I've been a member, and I've done it for the very simple reason that I want young people to experience what I did back when I was their age, which was people riding all over the place, having simple, easy fun on their dirt bikes, and learning, up close and personal, how great and life-affirming the sport of motocross is. My heart is aloft at the thought of how good they might have it, as they might have it as good as I did way-back-when, and I'll be damned if I'll let go of that vision without a fight.
This was great to read, thank you
idworx
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idworx 12/18/2021 11:08am
12/18/2021 11:08am
6kWh of energy on board; that is less energy than ONE liter of fuel and this combined with 80hp.

"6 hrs of lighter trail riding"? Ha ha ha. The e-engine is more efficient, but you would still need at least a 20kWh battery but that would make the bike much too heavy/big. This is the same problem with e-cars. We need much better batteries first.

I do like their technical details though.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 12/18/2021 11:46am
12/18/2021 11:46am
Wonder if Dirt Rider is gonna call it “Bike of The Year”
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Pakoyz250f 12/18/2021 12:10pm
12/18/2021 12:10pm
Pyry wrote:
I like this Swedish Steve Jobs better than I liked the original. His phone comes with a dirt bike.
haha good one!
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JK BRO
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JK BRO 12/18/2021 12:22pm
12/18/2021 12:22pm
All these preorders are going to be delivered in 2022? Yet the big mfg's are struggling to get bikes on the floor due to material shortage, inflation, demand.

These guys are going to deliver thousands of bikes in under 11mo without any sign of current production. Where's the manufacturing plant again?




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peltier626 12/18/2021 2:56pm
12/18/2021 2:56pm
When Yamaha makes an "E" bike equivalent to a 125 with a lifespan of three 20 min moto's. I will give them my money.
loftyair
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loftyair 12/18/2021 4:26pm
12/18/2021 4:26pm
Love innovation. Problem is the super-rich and their gov cronies. 'See all those people having fun? Tax their ass!' 99.7 big gov right there. But, have as much fun as you can before they notice!
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JM485
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JM485 12/18/2021 6:34pm
12/18/2021 6:34pm
Bruce372 wrote:
It's pretty depressing where we are, with all the it will never work mentality that lacks any imagination or innovation and focuses on gloom and doom...
It's pretty depressing where we are, with all the it will never work mentality that lacks any imagination or innovation and focuses on gloom and doom. A lot of ignorance and laziness as well, like someone saying a MX business model will fail, but rhe interview the CEO clearly states the mx bike is a proof of concept platform to make diverse electric bikes for the masses.

Maybe some people are a different mindset, every time I've been told my goals aren't achieveable, has only motivated me more. Are all these people telling their kids to not dream big because they'll fail and end up doing the same crap job and drinking in the same crap bar ?

People with that mindset really don’t matter because they only end up working for the people with the “it could work” mindset.
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wfopete
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wfopete 12/18/2021 6:43pm
12/18/2021 6:43pm
I rode several Alta's and was planning to buy one but then...

MXA would not even test one, I thin because they believed it wasn't a legit MX bike.

Like it's been said already, how many of local MX riders can even go full out for 15-20 minutes? I've gone to several MX ironman 1 hour races and the winner ends up being a hare scramble or enduro rider who is afraid to jump.

The biggest barrier for a MX rider on a VARG is no class structure but that doesn't apply to my use of the bike.

Put my order in yesterday.
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SCC
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SCC 12/18/2021 6:48pm
12/18/2021 6:48pm
I will forever rip my 2006 RM250 two stroke, my 2019 + FE KTM 450 AND a electric bike if it’s worth a shit. Why choose? Ride everything for different reasons.
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endurox
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endurox 12/18/2021 7:01pm
12/18/2021 7:01pm
idworx wrote:
6kWh of energy on board; that is less energy than ONE liter of fuel and this combined with 80hp. "6 hrs of lighter trail riding"? Ha...
6kWh of energy on board; that is less energy than ONE liter of fuel and this combined with 80hp.

"6 hrs of lighter trail riding"? Ha ha ha. The e-engine is more efficient, but you would still need at least a 20kWh battery but that would make the bike much too heavy/big. This is the same problem with e-cars. We need much better batteries first.

I do like their technical details though.
Internal combustion efficiency of about 30% versus electric brushless motor efficiency of over 92%
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SilverSpurs
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SilverSpurs 12/19/2021 2:18am
12/19/2021 2:18am
endurox wrote:
Internal combustion efficiency of about 30% versus electric brushless motor efficiency of over 92%
IC race engine efficiency is more like 40% around torque peak with some specialised race engines over 50%.
Also, 1litre of gasoline has more than 10 times the energy storage of 1 litre of battery.
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davis224
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davis224 12/19/2021 5:55am
12/19/2021 5:55am
So, I didn't hear them specify in the video, what exactly is the difference in the 60hp and 80hp version? Just a different motor? Different battery? Toying with putting a deposit down, not sure if I would be better off getting the 80hp and detuning it to around 40hp vs the same with the 60hp version. Wondering what the difference in performance/battery life would be between the two?
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Broseph
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Broseph 12/19/2021 7:14am
12/19/2021 7:14am Edited Date/Time 12/19/2021 7:17am
endurox wrote:
Internal combustion efficiency of about 30% versus electric brushless motor efficiency of over 92%
SilverSpurs wrote:
IC race engine efficiency is more like 40% around torque peak with some specialised race engines over 50%. Also, 1litre of gasoline has more than 10...
IC race engine efficiency is more like 40% around torque peak with some specialised race engines over 50%.
Also, 1litre of gasoline has more than 10 times the energy storage of 1 litre of battery.
On the track, how often are you under the ideal conditions required to achieve max efficiency? And how often are you cracking the throttle (accel pump enrichment), slipping the clutch (throwing away energy as heat), and lugging or revving outside of the max efficiency range?

Easier for electric to achieve decent efficiency. Especially with no clutch, no power enrichment, and engine braking likely being regenerative.
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DJB
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DJB 12/19/2021 8:05am
12/19/2021 8:05am
Still too early. Not about the bike, or the environment.
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SilverSpurs
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SilverSpurs 12/19/2021 8:11am
12/19/2021 8:11am
endurox wrote:
Internal combustion efficiency of about 30% versus electric brushless motor efficiency of over 92%
SilverSpurs wrote:
IC race engine efficiency is more like 40% around torque peak with some specialised race engines over 50%. Also, 1litre of gasoline has more than 10...
IC race engine efficiency is more like 40% around torque peak with some specialised race engines over 50%.
Also, 1litre of gasoline has more than 10 times the energy storage of 1 litre of battery.
Broseph wrote:
On the track, how often are you under the ideal conditions required to achieve max efficiency? And how often are you cracking the throttle (accel pump...
On the track, how often are you under the ideal conditions required to achieve max efficiency? And how often are you cracking the throttle (accel pump enrichment), slipping the clutch (throwing away energy as heat), and lugging or revving outside of the max efficiency range?

Easier for electric to achieve decent efficiency. Especially with no clutch, no power enrichment, and engine braking likely being regenerative.
All that about IC but where are these electric bikes being raced to make proper comparisons, especially worries about range and about overheating?

Answer. Nowhere.
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bents
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bents 12/19/2021 8:23am
12/19/2021 8:23am
davis224 wrote:
So, I didn't hear them specify in the video, what exactly is the difference in the 60hp and 80hp version? Just a different motor? Different battery...
So, I didn't hear them specify in the video, what exactly is the difference in the 60hp and 80hp version? Just a different motor? Different battery? Toying with putting a deposit down, not sure if I would be better off getting the 80hp and detuning it to around 40hp vs the same with the 60hp version. Wondering what the difference in performance/battery life would be between the two?
It's an extra 1300 bucks for the 80HP version. I chose the 60HP version for 2 reasons-#1-self preservation, because we all know that if you have it you can't help but give it a go and 80HP of electric power is WAY out of my talent level. #2-I don't want to spend an extra 1300.00 when I can detune from 60 on down.
soggy
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soggy 12/19/2021 8:48am
12/19/2021 8:48am
SilverSpurs wrote:
All that about IC but where are these electric bikes being raced to make proper comparisons, especially worries about range and about overheating?

Answer. Nowhere.
Not yet but it will happen soon
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OrangeJuice158 12/19/2021 10:19am
12/19/2021 10:19am
endurox wrote:
Internal combustion efficiency of about 30% versus electric brushless motor efficiency of over 92%
SilverSpurs wrote:
IC race engine efficiency is more like 40% around torque peak with some specialised race engines over 50%. Also, 1litre of gasoline has more than 10...
IC race engine efficiency is more like 40% around torque peak with some specialised race engines over 50%.
Also, 1litre of gasoline has more than 10 times the energy storage of 1 litre of battery.
I feel like in a Mx application you can do a lot with regeneration but the problem is most of the braking comes from the front wheel which is the hard one to get the energy back from.
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davis224
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davis224 12/19/2021 11:37am
12/19/2021 11:37am
davis224 wrote:
So, I didn't hear them specify in the video, what exactly is the difference in the 60hp and 80hp version? Just a different motor? Different battery...
So, I didn't hear them specify in the video, what exactly is the difference in the 60hp and 80hp version? Just a different motor? Different battery? Toying with putting a deposit down, not sure if I would be better off getting the 80hp and detuning it to around 40hp vs the same with the 60hp version. Wondering what the difference in performance/battery life would be between the two?
bents wrote:
It's an extra 1300 bucks for the 80HP version. I chose the 60HP version for 2 reasons-#1-self preservation, because we all know that if you have...
It's an extra 1300 bucks for the 80HP version. I chose the 60HP version for 2 reasons-#1-self preservation, because we all know that if you have it you can't help but give it a go and 80HP of electric power is WAY out of my talent level. #2-I don't want to spend an extra 1300.00 when I can detune from 60 on down.
I understand that it costs more, what I'm wondering is if you tune a 60hp and 80hp model to identical mid level power characteristics (say both at 40hp), am I going to go longer without a charge on the 80hp model? Surely the difference between the 2 is more than just software/programming. Already dying for a real life test here!
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DA498
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DA498 12/19/2021 1:16pm
12/19/2021 1:16pm
davis224 wrote:
I understand that it costs more, what I'm wondering is if you tune a 60hp and 80hp model to identical mid level power characteristics (say both...
I understand that it costs more, what I'm wondering is if you tune a 60hp and 80hp model to identical mid level power characteristics (say both at 40hp), am I going to go longer without a charge on the 80hp model? Surely the difference between the 2 is more than just software/programming. Already dying for a real life test here!
Ive been wondering the same
ns503
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ns503 12/19/2021 3:08pm
12/19/2021 3:08pm
davis224 wrote:
I understand that it costs more, what I'm wondering is if you tune a 60hp and 80hp model to identical mid level power characteristics (say both...
I understand that it costs more, what I'm wondering is if you tune a 60hp and 80hp model to identical mid level power characteristics (say both at 40hp), am I going to go longer without a charge on the 80hp model? Surely the difference between the 2 is more than just software/programming. Already dying for a real life test here!
DA498 wrote:
Ive been wondering the same
Given that the only battery size number I've seen is 6kwh, I'm guessing no.

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