Why has Pro Motocross ignored, betrayed and eliminated Women’s MX?

Stewyeww
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Stewyeww 10/26/2021 9:53am
10/26/2021 9:53am
In the MTB world, participation from women has blown up, they race the same world cups on the same tracks on the same weekends as the men, they have there own points series and own prize purse that is equal to the men. I don't see why anyone would object to getting more women involved in racing, because in turn that will get more women involved in riding, which will grow the sport.
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early
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early 10/26/2021 9:57am
10/26/2021 9:57am
Stewyeww wrote:
In the MTB world, participation from women has blown up, they race the same world cups on the same tracks on the same weekends as the...
In the MTB world, participation from women has blown up, they race the same world cups on the same tracks on the same weekends as the men, they have there own points series and own prize purse that is equal to the men. I don't see why anyone would object to getting more women involved in racing, because in turn that will get more women involved in riding, which will grow the sport.
Often the women's xc world cups have better racing than the men's.
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yota
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yota 10/26/2021 10:23am
10/26/2021 10:23am
I went thru this thread pretty quickly but was surprised to not see a response from DC.
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JOE_SPROCKETS#1 10/26/2021 10:31am
10/26/2021 10:31am
One thing i could see helping the sport as a whole would be if you get women into riding/racing the kids she has later in life will follow and join the sport of moto hopefully..
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MPJC
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MPJC 10/26/2021 10:38am
10/26/2021 10:38am
motokiwi wrote:
Its a mans sport. 99% of the participants are men. 99% of the viewers are men. Why cater to the 1% when its only going to...
Its a mans sport.

99% of the participants are men.

99% of the viewers are men.

Why cater to the 1% when its only going to lose them money and not entertain the viewers who are there to watch the very best racers in the world.
And I take it you want it to stay that way.
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motoBRD
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motoBRD 10/26/2021 10:39am
10/26/2021 10:39am
Is there a connection here to BMX? I switched over a few years ago and have enjoyed the local scene. It's pretty low-key. I have been following the Pro scene a bit, both Men and Women. I'm not sure if having an Elite Men/Women side has helped or hurt BMX racing in general. It seems like the opportunities are very limited for both sides.

At the very least, there is a path to the elite levels (national races, Olympic team, international races) for the ultra talented. It sounds like that is what some are calling for at a minimum. Maybe there are other parallels that can be drawn there.
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yak651
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yak651 10/26/2021 10:39am
10/26/2021 10:39am
yota wrote:
I went thru this thread pretty quickly but was surprised to not see a response from DC.
I'm not, DC is very selective in the threads he responds to.
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DC
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DC 10/26/2021 10:45am
10/26/2021 10:45am
yota wrote:
I went thru this thread pretty quickly but was surprised to not see a response from DC.
yak651 wrote:
I'm not, DC is very selective in the threads he responds to.
Plus, he's on vacation.

DC
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ParksVader
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ParksVader 10/26/2021 10:51am
10/26/2021 10:51am
I'd rather watch paint dry than watch women's MX.
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wisey
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wisey 10/26/2021 11:17am
10/26/2021 11:17am Edited Date/Time 10/26/2021 7:48pm
Yeah I think it’s obvious that a women’s pro class would not survive on its own. Neither will men’s pro MX on the path it is on.

I think the big take here, like everyone’s been saying, is the amateur side needs to change for the future of “pro racing”
Many things can be said but we need everyone to be able to be involved and have a sense of hope. The biggest thing for my kids is the involvement they feel when we go racing. Let’s face it these are kids and some may want to grind for a championship but many others just want to be involved with there friends. My older daughter rides, and races but is loosing interest because she has no friends to do laps, hang at the track, joke with and just have fun.
If it’s purely only the best should be on the track racing mentality there will eventually not be any racing at all.
Seems like Little League Baseball, La Crosse and football have a good national format for the kids to get involved and take a path to the pros if they desire. These sports leagues also provide opportunity for a proper education if and when the kids are unsuccessful or get injured. Pretty crazy that there are just local promoters trying to fill their pockets for the day. So at the end a men’s pro MXer has to start racing at 4-5, parents have spend months of the year driving all over the US to “national races”just so Bobby can burn out at 14 with no education to fall back on. This is really decreasing the talent pool and future pro riders. The gates will only see the rich and privileged kids.

Really no reason why someone like MX Sports could not create a national league for all kids to begin a path of MX or just have fun in.
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zippytech
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zippytech 10/26/2021 1:03pm
10/26/2021 1:03pm
I would rather just have one main event. I don't even care to watch the 250 class. Not that it's not good racing but I want to see the world's best all in one race.
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BobPA
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BobPA 10/26/2021 2:43pm
10/26/2021 2:43pm
motokiwi wrote:
Its a mans sport. 99% of the participants are men. 99% of the viewers are men. Why cater to the 1% when its only going to...
Its a mans sport.

99% of the participants are men.

99% of the viewers are men.

Why cater to the 1% when its only going to lose them money and not entertain the viewers who are there to watch the very best racers in the world.
I said the same thing but, some sissy pants commy deleted my comment. Good work ML, you're doing God's work....
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early
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early 10/26/2021 7:37pm
10/26/2021 7:37pm
queen of spodes wrote:
A lot of ya'll are missing the point on having a separate class for women. Testosterone helps build muscle mass but also affects the way people...
A lot of ya'll are missing the point on having a separate class for women. Testosterone helps build muscle mass but also affects the way people ride and the risks people take, it makes most guys aggressive.

I don't like racing in dude's classes because I know the chance of my getting punted off the track or landed on by a dude trying to win at $5 plastic trophy go way up. I'm not at a personal level to race A or B class, and at my age I'm good with that.

WNBA won't ever be as big as NBA, but there are a lot of us who watch and follow passionately. I also love watching the best guys in the world race moto, because they compete at a level literally .01% of every average racer will ever hope to get to. That doesn't mean I don't like seeing vets or ladies or kids race, I do. I love motocross, all of it.
I bet she knows more about this than we do.
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rucka356
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rucka356 10/26/2021 8:34pm
10/26/2021 8:34pm
Gender equality, we don't call it the mens 450 championship. There's already 2 series they can race in: 250 and 450. they wanna race they got to qualify
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mjones7212
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mjones7212 11/1/2021 10:46pm
11/1/2021 10:46pm
drivrswntd wrote:
Some of these comments are pretty pathetic. Hope you don't have daughters! Realistically if you wanted to put a serious effort into achieving this it is...
Some of these comments are pretty pathetic. Hope you don't have daughters!

Realistically if you wanted to put a serious effort into achieving this it is going to take 10-15 years and has to start at the grassroots local level. We have one local track that offers a girl's class and it is 9-15. Last race of the season we had 15 girls in the class. At the start of the season I think there were 6-8. To get more girls in the sport I feel you need to start with some dedicated girls classes at the younger level to bring them in and get started. The AMA is not running Girls 9-13 on the national level and only starts at 11. Get them in young and start building a base of girls and new girls in the sport. At the end of the day it just gives us a larger base, new people in the sport, more bike sales and everyone wins.

My daughter races a 65 and is AMA 9. Most races she is lined up with all boys and she has 2-3 other girls that will be there depending on where we are. That can be intimidating trying to come into the sport. She always has a ton of people cheering her on especially when "She's THE girl on the gate" tearing it up with the boys. I've also noticed a different demeanor and attitude when she's on the gate with just girls.

The potential is there but we need to focus on building the base and getting them into the sport!


APLMAN99 wrote:
My post wasn't meant to bash on women racers or their classes. I do think that you are right at your first inference, having a daughter...
My post wasn't meant to bash on women racers or their classes. I do think that you are right at your first inference, having a daughter may give you a slightly different perspective, but in the end it comes down to whether or not people will pay money or devote time to watching it as to whether it will succeed.

I actually like watching women's college and WNBA basketball, but I think that is likely because I spent a lot of years traveling with my daughter for her AAU basketball teams. It's different than the men's game, and if you need to be awed by dunks and playing above the rim then it won't be very exciting. But it seems to be a lot more strategic than the men's game and that's something that you develop an appreciation for over time I think.

Same thing with women's soccer and tennis. I would prefer to watch those over the men's game most of the time because the strategies are just different enough to make it more appealing.

For a women's class in MX/SX to succeed, you'd really need to have a pretty decent sized group of women (6-8) who could all win or be within 5-10 seconds of the lead for nearly the whole moto. If you had one woman who was so much faster than the field then it would be too boring and make the others look very bad. The last thing that the women's class should want is someone who is akin to a Jeremy McGrath in his prime type of racer.

If you had close racing, it really wouldn't matter (to me at least) if they are doing the same jumps as the men are. I thoroughly enjoyed, and still would, watching a guy like DeCoster race while never even attempting a triple jump.

I think that the women's classes should try holding their own events, not on a National weekend. Without having the men's classes their to compare it to may be more appealing because you don't have people seeing these insane jumps by the men followed by most of the women's field singling everything. Everything is relative and if the Women's Pro class is the fastest racing of the day, it will seem much more fast and exciting to the spectators.

Once the following grows, then perhaps merge it with some of the 'regular' Nationals.
I REMEMBER Fiolek PATTERSON AND SHERRI CRUSE LAUNCHING THE JUMPS AND PUTTING ON SOME GOOD RACES ALONG WITH TARAH GEIGER .. IF I REMEMBER RIGHT CRUSE DATED PASTRANA FOR A COUPLE YEARS
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GingerSnapRacing 11/4/2021 1:07pm
11/4/2021 1:07pm
Honestly I used to watch it and enjoyed it I was a huge fan of Fiolek and Geiger honestly I still am my mom has taken a class with her before and enjoyed it. I watch Jordan Jarvis and Hodges videos from Mini O’s and the grit between those two is rad. We have a local girl trying to move up she’s still in HS but hey she moves decent and beats some dudes in the novice class.

That said I think the downfall for women’s MX is the depth of the field. In general at the grassroots local level the numbers are just so much lower than the boys. The reason there isn’t a womens class is that only 1-3 show up. But I’ve seen more women in Vet racing than ever it seems and it keeps growing. My mom and like 5 other girls battled hard at Hollister super fun to watch. Of course they aren’t hauling the mail but it was fun for me.

SX tried with makeup to mud it was a little cheesy at times but man they tried something I’m not going to hate on that at all.

Idk how to fix it I agree more women riding would be awesome, More shared activities with kids/parents/husbands/wife’s and brothers/sisters. The one fact remains that the physical differences are fairly large, these bikes are 200 lbs and it’s hard for a ungodly fit dude to do 30+2.

I hope it makes a resurgence and wish I knew how to fix it.
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Gravel
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Gravel 11/5/2021 5:44am
11/5/2021 5:44am
Has anyone tried an outdoor two day format with the pros on Saturday and sideshows on Sunday? We could have two strokes, minis, vets and women on the big track without the time pressure of live TV. Like SX used to do. Everything is already there, as long as the track wasn’t prepped to make giant ruts I’d love to go race on a national track.
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lostboy819 11/5/2021 10:00am
11/5/2021 10:00am Edited Date/Time 11/5/2021 10:01am
Pro motocross has NOT ignored or betrayed women's motocross, they had a shot and ran during some nationals but it is simple supply and demand. Yes there should be separate women's classes at the races but no where near enough interest at the national pro level. Cant blame MXsports or DC on this either even though some will try. There has always been fast women and slow ones too that like to race and they need a class but the low numbers of women who race make it tough to accommodate some of the demands and lets face it racing MX is just not appealing to most females.
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Phillip_Lamb
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Phillip_Lamb 11/5/2021 10:33am
11/5/2021 10:33am
Gravel wrote:
Has anyone tried an outdoor two day format with the pros on Saturday and sideshows on Sunday? We could have two strokes, minis, vets and women...
Has anyone tried an outdoor two day format with the pros on Saturday and sideshows on Sunday? We could have two strokes, minis, vets and women on the big track without the time pressure of live TV. Like SX used to do. Everything is already there, as long as the track wasn’t prepped to make giant ruts I’d love to go race on a national track.
2008 and prior, the schedule was a two day for the outdoors. and as to racing on the national track, most venues offer Amatuer day racing the 2-3 days preceeding. Hangtown for sure runs an amateur day racing

when the series got rid of saturday qualifier heats around 2006/7? they changed it to practice for the 250/450 classes, and Moto 1 would race on saturday and race moto 2 as intermission for sundays.

the one day format made running the womens series harder as it would be intermission moto 1 and moto 2 would run at the end of the day after TV and fans left.



I think most everyone would agree there needs to be a two day schedule. Basically a "B" series to include a Womens mx class, a 250 Pro-am/A/Pro sport class, and a 125 class and all be ran with no age restriction.
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early
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early 11/5/2021 11:10am
11/5/2021 11:10am Edited Date/Time 11/5/2021 11:32am
Gravel wrote:
Has anyone tried an outdoor two day format with the pros on Saturday and sideshows on Sunday? We could have two strokes, minis, vets and women...
Has anyone tried an outdoor two day format with the pros on Saturday and sideshows on Sunday? We could have two strokes, minis, vets and women on the big track without the time pressure of live TV. Like SX used to do. Everything is already there, as long as the track wasn’t prepped to make giant ruts I’d love to go race on a national track.
This already happens, it's just not organized into a series. A couple pages ago I talked about how you could take a handful of amateur day events, Mammoth, Ponca, Loretta, Mini Os, and create an amateur championship series from them with supermini, 125, 250, women's pro, and +35 for retired racers like Ryno and Brownie. Get all the fast kids in the same classes over the course of a number of races, get coverage for the series because of the kids and the vets, gives women's pro class a more appropriate stage.



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three9zero
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three9zero 11/5/2021 5:32pm
11/5/2021 5:32pm
Stewyeww wrote:
In the MTB world, participation from women has blown up, they race the same world cups on the same tracks on the same weekends as the...
In the MTB world, participation from women has blown up, they race the same world cups on the same tracks on the same weekends as the men, they have there own points series and own prize purse that is equal to the men. I don't see why anyone would object to getting more women involved in racing, because in turn that will get more women involved in riding, which will grow the sport.
^^^^this, also skiing and snowboarding.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 11/5/2021 6:38pm
11/5/2021 6:38pm
queen of spodes wrote:
A lot of ya'll are missing the point on having a separate class for women. Testosterone helps build muscle mass but also affects the way people...
A lot of ya'll are missing the point on having a separate class for women. Testosterone helps build muscle mass but also affects the way people ride and the risks people take, it makes most guys aggressive.

I don't like racing in dude's classes because I know the chance of my getting punted off the track or landed on by a dude trying to win at $5 plastic trophy go way up. I'm not at a personal level to race A or B class, and at my age I'm good with that.

WNBA won't ever be as big as NBA, but there are a lot of us who watch and follow passionately. I also love watching the best guys in the world race moto, because they compete at a level literally .01% of every average racer will ever hope to get to. That doesn't mean I don't like seeing vets or ladies or kids race, I do. I love motocross, all of it.
Reading this made me laugh out-loud.
Why?
Because, I’d rather race with her.

It’s safer.

Laughing; but, not kidding.

Manny
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snackfedbear
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snackfedbear 11/5/2021 11:00pm
11/5/2021 11:00pm
Damn I guess my joke wasn’t that funny
lestat
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lestat 11/6/2021 8:03am
11/6/2021 8:03am
If you look at it from a business point of view … the potential for growth in the women’s class is massive . Dwarfs the potential growth of all other classes combined by a huge margin . Food for thought ….
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Zycki11
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Zycki11 11/6/2021 8:42am
11/6/2021 8:42am
lestat wrote:
If you look at it from a business point of view … the potential for growth in the women’s class is massive . Dwarfs the potential...
If you look at it from a business point of view … the potential for growth in the women’s class is massive . Dwarfs the potential growth of all other classes combined by a huge margin . Food for thought ….
Yeah, no it doesn’t. Business point of view? Less are likely to watch, less are participating in the actual events, the skill isn’t as high. Your backasswards on that.

For the record, I am not hating on women racing/riding. I think it’s awesome, but to think it should be a thing when it simply doesn’t have the fundamentals to be just that “a thing”. Certain things women are better at. Women a volleyball is much more entertaining than mens. Indoors and outdoors. Swimming is equally badass. It’s just different
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lostboy819 11/6/2021 10:47am
11/6/2021 10:47am Edited Date/Time 11/6/2021 12:17pm
lestat wrote:
If you look at it from a business point of view … the potential for growth in the women’s class is massive . Dwarfs the potential...
If you look at it from a business point of view … the potential for growth in the women’s class is massive . Dwarfs the potential growth of all other classes combined by a huge margin . Food for thought ….
Sounds like you are the next Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos all rolled into one Now go show us how its done. While you are at it you can tap the women's bikini market in Iran and Iraq, If you look at it from a business point of view, the potential for growth in the women’s market is massive there also.
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Flatliner
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Flatliner 11/6/2021 12:50pm
11/6/2021 12:50pm
I'm not sure what the answer is, the peak seemed to be the ashley fiolek days...

The WNBA markets like crazy, yet they're still heavily subsidized by the NBA. Without that, the league would fold.



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kijen
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kijen 11/6/2021 3:15pm
11/6/2021 3:15pm
Flatliner wrote:
I'm not sure what the answer is, the peak seemed to be the ashley fiolek days... The WNBA markets like crazy, yet they're still heavily subsidized...
I'm not sure what the answer is, the peak seemed to be the ashley fiolek days...

The WNBA markets like crazy, yet they're still heavily subsidized by the NBA. Without that, the league would fold.



I Get your point, but NBA does not subsidies WNBA, consumers do, ticket prices, advertising all gets passed to you and I. 10 dollar burgers, 2.50 cokes etc...pro orginzations are making millions if not bllions.
Fans are suckers. Even non fans are paying.
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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 11/6/2021 3:30pm
11/6/2021 3:30pm
Pro Supercross and MX is the best in the World. Women can enter the same classes and qualify....and they have qualified in the past. It's not different than NFL not having a women's league, MLB, Formula 1, NASCAR, NHL etc etc. They have amateur races all over the place to compete in. MX Sports tried it and it was not successful, so it was a business decision to drop it. Simple as that. I am confident there are women's classes at all the Amateur Days before/after the National Pro Day. In addition, if the factories felt it was viable and lucrative, they would have women on their teams too, right?

Comparing to MTB is very different. The pro women are insane fast and mountain biking is not on Live network TV.....and only Live on a World Cup level......and then it's on RedBull TV, not actually televised. Good luck finding coverage of even National level pro racing off road anywhere. The reality is the women MTB races are almost always more exciting than men in XC and the Top 5-10 DH women are awesome to watch too.

Also, why does the thread only refer to MX and not SX?
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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 11/6/2021 3:38pm
11/6/2021 3:38pm
Flatliner wrote:
I'm not sure what the answer is, the peak seemed to be the ashley fiolek days... The WNBA markets like crazy, yet they're still heavily subsidized...
I'm not sure what the answer is, the peak seemed to be the ashley fiolek days...

The WNBA markets like crazy, yet they're still heavily subsidized by the NBA. Without that, the league would fold.



kijen wrote:
I Get your point, but NBA does not subsidies WNBA, consumers do, ticket prices, advertising all gets passed to you and I. 10 dollar burgers, 2.50...
I Get your point, but NBA does not subsidies WNBA, consumers do, ticket prices, advertising all gets passed to you and I. 10 dollar burgers, 2.50 cokes etc...pro orginzations are making millions if not bllions.
Fans are suckers. Even non fans are paying.
What he means is profit is being taken from the pro mens team to fund the women's. If they were on their own, the WNBA would hemorrhage money and go out of business. Has nothing to do with the cost of the burger. With or without the WNBA, the food will always be insane as you are captive market when there.
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