Are the best racers in the world training wrong?

sandtrack315
Posts
2822
Joined
7/19/2013
Location
Philadelphia, PA US
4/15/2021 6:00am
You’re overthinking it. No certain gym exercise is going to make you faster. Nothing can really help you throw around a 450 except throwing around a...
You’re overthinking it. No certain gym exercise is going to make you faster. Nothing can really help you throw around a 450 except throwing around a 450. Plus, If you’re relying on muscle to ride the bike, you’re really doing it wrong.
soggy wrote:
You don’t understand the topic at all
The best way to not get injured is to ride safely, in control, and not be fatigued so you can make good decisions on the bike. Spending time in the gym bulking up is just not going to be worth it. Sure, between motos work on some stabilization stuff, especially if you have a weak joint. And core strength is obviously super important for when you get a little out of shape on the bike, so you can bring it back. But putting on muscle mass in hopes of not getting hurt when you hit the ground is not the strategy I would take.

Train to ride the bike well and in control, not to hit the ground.
2
APLMAN99
Posts
12148
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR US
Fantasy
4/15/2021 6:06am
Robbie Reynard sure looked like he had more muscle mass than the average racer.

And was always injured........
1
4
ATKpilot99
Posts
10411
Joined
4/13/2010
Location
Lake Geneva, WI US
4/15/2021 6:11am
I'm not sure how the GP guys train .
Chance1216
Posts
8242
Joined
4/1/2018
Location
Carson, CA US
4/15/2021 6:20am
curmudgeon wrote:
The guy busted a collarbone, no amount bulk from weight training is going to change that. You don't need to add bulk to gain extra soft...
The guy busted a collarbone, no amount bulk from weight training is going to change that. You don't need to add bulk to gain extra soft tissue resilience from weight training either. That is basically his natural size and it's fast. The only way he could put on bulk and retain it would be through using the needle.
“The only way he could put on bulk and retain it would be through using the needle.”

I’m sorry but, that’s the most idiotic statement I’ve heard in awhile. It’s called increasing your caloric intake to keep the extra weight on. .
9

The Shop

McG194
Posts
4109
Joined
9/7/2017
Location
Palm Coast, FL US
4/15/2021 6:21am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Robbie Reynard sure looked like he had more muscle mass than the average racer.

And was always injured........
I was wrong, close the thread, this is all the proof we need.
2
4/15/2021 6:22am
Honestly I think some peeps are just bad at crashing.
There is such a thing as being good at it.

Being able to tuck and roll in certain situations, bail at the right time or get away from the bike. Sure muscle mass may help cushion some blows but I think it depends where you land too.

James Stewart used to get rag dolled around and somehow I don’t think he was injured that often. Just got back up and raced.
2
1
sporkfpoon
Posts
63
Joined
1/21/2021
Location
Virginia Beach, VA US
4/15/2021 6:28am
Anyone notice how fit (non homo) sipes looked when they showed him at the medic trailer. Dude has some upper body strength. And he’s 36
He makes me question my sexuality too.
1
3
APLMAN99
Posts
12148
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR US
Fantasy
4/15/2021 6:36am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Robbie Reynard sure looked like he had more muscle mass than the average racer.

And was always injured........
McG194 wrote:
I was wrong, close the thread, this is all the proof we need.
If you are going to use anecdotal examples to try to prove your point, you shouldn’t ignore anecdotal examples that may disprove it.

Doing that is the textbook definition of confirmation bias.
2
2
sporkfpoon
Posts
63
Joined
1/21/2021
Location
Virginia Beach, VA US
4/15/2021 6:40am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Robbie Reynard sure looked like he had more muscle mass than the average racer.

And was always injured........
McG194 wrote:
I was wrong, close the thread, this is all the proof we need.
APLMAN99 wrote:
If you are going to use anecdotal examples to try to prove your point, you shouldn’t ignore anecdotal examples that may disprove it. Doing that is...
If you are going to use anecdotal examples to try to prove your point, you shouldn’t ignore anecdotal examples that may disprove it.

Doing that is the textbook definition of confirmation bias.
Hugh Jackman has never been injured on a motocross track.
1
1
McG194
Posts
4109
Joined
9/7/2017
Location
Palm Coast, FL US
4/15/2021 7:11am
Honestly I think some peeps are just bad at crashing. There is such a thing as being good at it. Being able to tuck and roll...
Honestly I think some peeps are just bad at crashing.
There is such a thing as being good at it.

Being able to tuck and roll in certain situations, bail at the right time or get away from the bike. Sure muscle mass may help cushion some blows but I think it depends where you land too.

James Stewart used to get rag dolled around and somehow I don’t think he was injured that often. Just got back up and raced.
There is some truth in this. Gasjer is freaking Gumby and seems to pop up from anything.

I'm not suggesting bulking up is the end all be all. What I'm suggesting is that since motorcycles have changed so much maybe it's time for the racers to change.
JazzyJJ
Posts
1761
Joined
12/1/2020
Location
Nunya, WY US
4/15/2021 7:12am
curmudgeon wrote:
The guy busted a collarbone, no amount bulk from weight training is going to change that. You don't need to add bulk to gain extra soft...
The guy busted a collarbone, no amount bulk from weight training is going to change that. You don't need to add bulk to gain extra soft tissue resilience from weight training either. That is basically his natural size and it's fast. The only way he could put on bulk and retain it would be through using the needle.
Chance1216 wrote:
“The only way he could put on bulk and retain it would be through using the needle.” I’m sorry but, that’s the most idiotic statement I’ve...
“The only way he could put on bulk and retain it would be through using the needle.”

I’m sorry but, that’s the most idiotic statement I’ve heard in awhile. It’s called increasing your caloric intake to keep the extra weight on. .
Same type of person that blames their fatness on a disease or a faulty thyroid.
luke11
Posts
679
Joined
6/4/2018
Location
Worcestershire GB
4/15/2021 7:18am
deadlo wrote:
Nick bare (YouTube guy) is like 5’10 200lbs yoked, and recently ran a sub 3 hr marathon. Having muscle has been scientifically proven in numerous studies...
Nick bare (YouTube guy) is like 5’10 200lbs yoked, and recently ran a sub 3 hr marathon.

Having muscle has been scientifically proven in numerous studies to aid in the prevention of injuries (yes we know guys, it won’t prevent every injury).

Studies show increasing muscle mass also increases bone density and tendon strength.

I wonder how the increased muscle mass may affect balance though.
Nick is a beast. Some fit-spiration right there!
luke11
Posts
679
Joined
6/4/2018
Location
Worcestershire GB
4/15/2021 7:21am
Honestly I think some peeps are just bad at crashing. There is such a thing as being good at it. Being able to tuck and roll...
Honestly I think some peeps are just bad at crashing.
There is such a thing as being good at it.

Being able to tuck and roll in certain situations, bail at the right time or get away from the bike. Sure muscle mass may help cushion some blows but I think it depends where you land too.

James Stewart used to get rag dolled around and somehow I don’t think he was injured that often. Just got back up and raced.
McG194 wrote:
There is some truth in this. Gasjer is freaking Gumby and seems to pop up from anything. I'm not suggesting bulking up is the end all...
There is some truth in this. Gasjer is freaking Gumby and seems to pop up from anything.

I'm not suggesting bulking up is the end all be all. What I'm suggesting is that since motorcycles have changed so much maybe it's time for the racers to change.
I’ve always been ‘well built’ since a kid. Also started lifting weight at 13-14 and have grown up racing and riding, all my mates who are a lot skinnier than me broke something in those years. Me, touch wood, has never broken a thing. I 100% put it down to muscle mass and weight lifting, like others have said, it adds protection and strengthens bones.
2
McG194
Posts
4109
Joined
9/7/2017
Location
Palm Coast, FL US
4/15/2021 7:22am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Robbie Reynard sure looked like he had more muscle mass than the average racer.

And was always injured........
McG194 wrote:
I was wrong, close the thread, this is all the proof we need.
APLMAN99 wrote:
If you are going to use anecdotal examples to try to prove your point, you shouldn’t ignore anecdotal examples that may disprove it. Doing that is...
If you are going to use anecdotal examples to try to prove your point, you shouldn’t ignore anecdotal examples that may disprove it.

Doing that is the textbook definition of confirmation bias.
Can you tell me the anecdotal evidence that I used to prove my point?

I suggested that AC looked a little weak in the shoulder area, that is not proof on my part it is the basis of my hypothesis.

If you notice the title of this thread I'm questioning, I have not stated for a fact that it would help, common sense says it should help but right now there are no real jacked racers. At the end of the day there is no way to "prove" my hypothesis unless there is a training shift in these athletes.
1
APLMAN99
Posts
12148
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR US
Fantasy
4/15/2021 7:31am
McG194 wrote:
I was wrong, close the thread, this is all the proof we need.
APLMAN99 wrote:
If you are going to use anecdotal examples to try to prove your point, you shouldn’t ignore anecdotal examples that may disprove it. Doing that is...
If you are going to use anecdotal examples to try to prove your point, you shouldn’t ignore anecdotal examples that may disprove it.

Doing that is the textbook definition of confirmation bias.
McG194 wrote:
Can you tell me the anecdotal evidence that I used to prove my point? I suggested that AC looked a little weak in the shoulder area...
Can you tell me the anecdotal evidence that I used to prove my point?

I suggested that AC looked a little weak in the shoulder area, that is not proof on my part it is the basis of my hypothesis.

If you notice the title of this thread I'm questioning, I have not stated for a fact that it would help, common sense says it should help but right now there are no real jacked racers. At the end of the day there is no way to "prove" my hypothesis unless there is a training shift in these athletes.
You answered your own question. Yes, you used AC as your anecdotal evidence for your hypothesis that less muscle leads to more injuries for racers.

While the thread title is in the form of a question, the initial post is basically your answer in the affirmative and your reasoning/evidence for your conclusion.

My point remains valid, you were using AC’s injuries as evidence for your position while not considering evidence that contradicts that position.

Again, that’s called confirmation bias.

That shouldn’t be all that shocking, none of us are immune from that sort of thing.
1
3
McG194
Posts
4109
Joined
9/7/2017
Location
Palm Coast, FL US
4/15/2021 8:00am
APLMAN99 wrote:
If you are going to use anecdotal examples to try to prove your point, you shouldn’t ignore anecdotal examples that may disprove it. Doing that is...
If you are going to use anecdotal examples to try to prove your point, you shouldn’t ignore anecdotal examples that may disprove it.

Doing that is the textbook definition of confirmation bias.
McG194 wrote:
Can you tell me the anecdotal evidence that I used to prove my point? I suggested that AC looked a little weak in the shoulder area...
Can you tell me the anecdotal evidence that I used to prove my point?

I suggested that AC looked a little weak in the shoulder area, that is not proof on my part it is the basis of my hypothesis.

If you notice the title of this thread I'm questioning, I have not stated for a fact that it would help, common sense says it should help but right now there are no real jacked racers. At the end of the day there is no way to "prove" my hypothesis unless there is a training shift in these athletes.
APLMAN99 wrote:
You answered your own question. Yes, you used AC as your anecdotal evidence for your hypothesis that less muscle leads to more injuries for racers. While...
You answered your own question. Yes, you used AC as your anecdotal evidence for your hypothesis that less muscle leads to more injuries for racers.

While the thread title is in the form of a question, the initial post is basically your answer in the affirmative and your reasoning/evidence for your conclusion.

My point remains valid, you were using AC’s injuries as evidence for your position while not considering evidence that contradicts that position.

Again, that’s called confirmation bias.

That shouldn’t be all that shocking, none of us are immune from that sort of thing.
You really don't understand what a hypothesis is do you?

The title of the thread is a FREAKING QUESTION!!!!!

1
Chance1216
Posts
8242
Joined
4/1/2018
Location
Carson, CA US
4/15/2021 8:20am Edited Date/Time 4/15/2021 8:22am
curmudgeon wrote:
The guy busted a collarbone, no amount bulk from weight training is going to change that. You don't need to add bulk to gain extra soft...
The guy busted a collarbone, no amount bulk from weight training is going to change that. You don't need to add bulk to gain extra soft tissue resilience from weight training either. That is basically his natural size and it's fast. The only way he could put on bulk and retain it would be through using the needle.
Chance1216 wrote:
“The only way he could put on bulk and retain it would be through using the needle.” I’m sorry but, that’s the most idiotic statement I’ve...
“The only way he could put on bulk and retain it would be through using the needle.”

I’m sorry but, that’s the most idiotic statement I’ve heard in awhile. It’s called increasing your caloric intake to keep the extra weight on. .
JazzyJJ wrote:
Same type of person that blames their fatness on a disease or a faulty thyroid.
Potato chips are only 250 calories per serving.
But, I thought the whole bag was a serving. Good thing i only drink Diet Coke. 😉
1
soggy
Posts
8425
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
UT US
4/15/2021 8:21am
I think all we know is everyone’s body is different. Some guys have shallow shoulder sockets so they dislocate easily. Some guys are good at falling and when they know it’s happening they can let them selves go limp, some guys fight the fall too long tense up and get hurt. It’s all about finding what works best for your body and there always chasing it cause there is always something else you can do to improve.

350ss
Posts
30
Joined
12/24/2016
Location
Houston, TX US
4/15/2021 8:57am
the people who don't think additional muscle mass/strength would prevent injuries are the same people who don't think chest protectors with additional shoulder protection/padding would prevent injuries.

yeah, in ideal racing where people don't hit the ground a lighter rider might have an advantage but eventually everyone hits the deck at some point.

not an ideal analogy but why did ktm put electric start on their bikes and take a weight penalty for doing so? for old fat guys on practice days? maybe a little but really so they could crash during a race and get back up and going faster.

i love dirt bikes but people on this board are so stupid most of the time. good greif
4
APLMAN99
Posts
12148
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR US
Fantasy
4/15/2021 9:16am
McG194 wrote:
Can you tell me the anecdotal evidence that I used to prove my point? I suggested that AC looked a little weak in the shoulder area...
Can you tell me the anecdotal evidence that I used to prove my point?

I suggested that AC looked a little weak in the shoulder area, that is not proof on my part it is the basis of my hypothesis.

If you notice the title of this thread I'm questioning, I have not stated for a fact that it would help, common sense says it should help but right now there are no real jacked racers. At the end of the day there is no way to "prove" my hypothesis unless there is a training shift in these athletes.
APLMAN99 wrote:
You answered your own question. Yes, you used AC as your anecdotal evidence for your hypothesis that less muscle leads to more injuries for racers. While...
You answered your own question. Yes, you used AC as your anecdotal evidence for your hypothesis that less muscle leads to more injuries for racers.

While the thread title is in the form of a question, the initial post is basically your answer in the affirmative and your reasoning/evidence for your conclusion.

My point remains valid, you were using AC’s injuries as evidence for your position while not considering evidence that contradicts that position.

Again, that’s called confirmation bias.

That shouldn’t be all that shocking, none of us are immune from that sort of thing.
McG194 wrote:
You really don't understand what a hypothesis is do you?

The title of the thread is a FREAKING QUESTION!!!!!

I stated that the title of the thread was a question, but then you posit your hypothesis based and you explicitly stated that you developed this based on your observation of AC.

You appear to be so entrenched in your bias that you are not even able to process conflicting anecdotal evidence that counters the anecdotal evidence that you developed your initial thought on.

A hypothesis isn't a question, it's a statement of explanation that you believe can/should be proven. The question is not the hypothesis, your statements in the opening post lay out your hypothesis. There is not a single question in the first post, just several statements of belief that form the structure of your hypothesis.

So perhaps you should learn what a hypothesis is?
3
7
dbx33
Posts
247
Joined
8/13/2020
Location
FL US
4/15/2021 9:16am
Brent wrote:
Motocross is not an upper body sport. Rick Johnson told me he has "String bean arms". none of the worlds fastest motocross riders have upper body...
Motocross is not an upper body sport.

Rick Johnson told me he has "String bean arms".

none of the worlds fastest motocross riders have upper body bulk it is not needed when you ride a bike with your legs.
McG194 wrote:
You completely missed my point. I'm not talking about an aid to riding the bike, I'm talking adding musculature to prevent injury.
it is proven muscle doesn't prevent injury. lighter and more flexible impacts do
1
Motoxdoc
Posts
2703
Joined
11/8/2009
Location
Steamboat Springs, CO US
4/15/2021 9:22am
Physical fitness is a cornerstone of MX/SX. If you are the best racer in the world...you are doing something right with regards to training.
gt80rider
Posts
6849
Joined
4/19/2008
Location
Boulder, CO US
4/15/2021 9:24am
McG194 wrote:
I'm not saying the racers of today aren't fit because they are absolute beasts. Here is my hypothesis: I watched AC's video announcing that he was...
I'm not saying the racers of today aren't fit because they are absolute beasts.

Here is my hypothesis: I watched AC's video announcing that he was out for the rest of SX and a thought started gnawing at me. The fact is the dude looks frail. I know he's in better shape than I have ever been in and I'm not dogging him because I like him and want him to win a ton and become the face of the sport. I think the era of building pure cardio beasts has possibly gone past its prime and is now harming these guys.

The undeniable fact is modern 450's are going faster than dirt bikes have ever gone causing exceedingly violent crashes. I don't believe one single guy on a SX line would lose any measurable performance of their 450 by putting on 15 pounds or so.

It is possible to still retain flexibility and cardio but add a substantial amount of muscle. If some of these guys had more musculature they would be far less susceptible to injuries. I'm well aware that you don't need ultimate strength to race a dirt bike but muscles aren't just about strength, they do protect your vital organs and bones. MMA fighters take a beating and yet are still very flexible and have great cardio.

What I'm suggesting goes against just about everything the establishment trainers preach and I'm sure some will call me an idiot (especially with my bait headline haha) but I think it's a worthy discussion.
thin/frail is good for endurance, not so good for crashes....
1
DaveB771
Posts
331
Joined
7/27/2011
Location
Minneapolis, MN US
4/15/2021 9:25am
NFL offensive linemen are plagued by shoulder injuries. Maybe they should bulk up a bit more.
2
Chance1216
Posts
8242
Joined
4/1/2018
Location
Carson, CA US
4/15/2021 9:28am
DaveB771 wrote:
NFL offensive linemen are plagued by shoulder injuries. Maybe they should bulk up a bit more.
Repetitive hits to the same area. That’s like carpet installers
kicking a stretcher all day and wondering why they have knee problems.
1
deadlo
Posts
332
Joined
8/29/2017
Location
Harker heights, TX US
4/15/2021 9:42am
You guys are legit retards if you don’t believe that muscle mass protects the body from injury. There is an abundance of scientific literature on this. Protects, not totally prevents (I know I need to make that comment because you tards will say “well explain how so and so that has big muscles has been hurt” lmao)

That said, having more muscle mass may not make you a better rider. Motocross is a game of risk. Being bulkier would for sure assist in injury prevention, but it also may cause the rider to be less balanced and have less endurance.
13
1
mxtech1
Posts
1968
Joined
7/21/2011
Location
Galesburg, IL US
4/15/2021 10:10am
It would be interesting to compare the average and peak speeds reached during racing today vs. 10, 20, 30 years ago. We are all confident that the bikes are getting faster, suspension is getting better, and riders have more skill than ever. But how much faster?

I often wonder if the speeds these guys are running at now - we are finding the limit of how hard the human body can hit the ground without breaking stuff, regardless of if your are a muscular or "string bean" body type.
2
MXJORRIT
Posts
33
Joined
6/12/2017
Location
DE
4/15/2021 10:58am
Really interesting topic. I actually just got home from a physiotherapy/medical workshop where we partially talked about how hypertrophy ( building up muscles ) can affect the pro athlete. First of all I totally agree with the OP, building up muscle mass is probably next to nutrition and flexibility one of the main factors for preventing injuries, since strength reinforces muscles, tendons, ligaments and most important bones. Studies have shown that especially weight-lifting and high-impact exercises ( like jumping ) affect osteoblasts within the bone, the cells which increase bone density. But you always have to keep in mind that pro mx/sx racer's bodies are required to perform at an extreme high level of cardiovascular intensity for 20-40 minutes. Therefore having too much mass can be counterproductive since muscles require large amounts of oxygen to function properly and the body is just not able to compensate for that. And one thing I personally think should be considered partially is genetics since it also regulates bone mineral density. Take a look at Herlings this guy is probably next to Gajser the fittest mx racer I've seen, but he's prone to get hurt as soon as he crashes and when Gajser crashes going Mach2 he just bounces off the ground like nothing happened.
7
McG194
Posts
4109
Joined
9/7/2017
Location
Palm Coast, FL US
4/15/2021 11:02am
APLMAN99 wrote:
I stated that the title of the thread was a question, but then you posit your hypothesis based and you explicitly stated that you developed this...
I stated that the title of the thread was a question, but then you posit your hypothesis based and you explicitly stated that you developed this based on your observation of AC.

You appear to be so entrenched in your bias that you are not even able to process conflicting anecdotal evidence that counters the anecdotal evidence that you developed your initial thought on.

A hypothesis isn't a question, it's a statement of explanation that you believe can/should be proven. The question is not the hypothesis, your statements in the opening post lay out your hypothesis. There is not a single question in the first post, just several statements of belief that form the structure of your hypothesis.

So perhaps you should learn what a hypothesis is?
Hypothesis:

noun
A supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.


This part of the discussion is tiresome, I have said numerous times that I proposed a question. I don't know the answer except by using logic which admittedly may be wrong. You seem to not be interested in logic and are digging your heels in that I have a preconceived belief.
1
1
number six
Posts
375
Joined
2/27/2019
Location
efnli77643qrv, FM US
4/15/2021 12:03pm
Uh ..
Marvin Musquin ; world champion.
Although his knees have been failing him lately.
1

Post a reply to: Are the best racers in the world training wrong?

The Latest