Is the CR500 the only bike that could be competitive 20 years later?

BikePilot
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12/9/2020 5:19am
It wasn’t even competitive 20yrs ago. I used to race them, I and nearly everyone else was faster on a 250. Check out mxdns from back then when 125s, 500s, and 250s ran at the same time. 250s were nearly always the fastes and the 500s and 125s were usually really close to each other.
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ElliotB16
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12/9/2020 5:45am
McGrath did a video comparing the kx500 to a modern 450
AJ
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12/9/2020 6:00am
The kx 500 is so much better than the cr 500. The KIPS and the suspension.. buddy has a 01 Honda and 04/96 kawi and the...
The kx 500 is so much better than the cr 500. The KIPS and the suspension.. buddy has a 01 Honda and 04/96 kawi and the kawis where better planted and easier to ride
I wondered that myself why every AF is usually a CR and not a KX. No expert on 500's but my understanding was that the Kawi...
I wondered that myself why every AF is usually a CR and not a KX. No expert on 500's but my understanding was that the Kawi was the motor king of 500's so why aren't there more Kawi conversations?
My crew and I have made about 6,000 conversions over the last 23 years.
The bulk of that was indeed CR500AF.
However I've done several hundred KX500AF bikes as well.
Just did 2 this past few weeks.

Ive raced both conversion types a lot.
They are honestly not much different.
Keep in mind I use CRF250R chassis for CR500AF and kxf250 chassis for KX500AF so the only difference is engine/pipes.

Stock vs stock
The kx5 has a bit more over rev ,possibly a tad more peak hp due to that.

The cr5 has more low to mid and a stronger mid range surge but does sign off earlier.

They are not different enough thst various pipes or porting wouldn't match each other.

The kx kips valve does very little, the cdi is not mapped at all to aid in timing fir the power valve port timing changes.
The cdi is a simple bypass circuit from start timing to dynamic or run timing at about 1800 rpm.

The hinda while not having a power valve actually has a nice cdi with a full rpm.range analog mapping.

So one company relied in cdi, and timing curve to broaden power, one relied on power valve.
They ended up basically the same place and oddlybenough the cr has more bottom.and mid.

The kx has more potential if anyone made a true mapped cdi to its port timing changes.

As they stand they feel a tad different,but racing them.in similar chassis it's nothing major at all.
Both are open class 2 strokes and have the disadvantages and advantages of that.

I still make them new, and love them Smile

Www.built500.com

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AJ
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12/9/2020 6:28am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2020 6:30am
As far as competitive ,depends on conditions .
Same hp,but made a couple thousand rpms quicker/earlier is significantly more torque.
Dry hard pack 450 rules.
Deep mud deep sand I'm not convinced it does.
The 500 is more fun.
Ask this guy.

He came out of years of retirement ,and was still reasonably competitive at the top level, on a cr5 powered bike we built him. Wink

Always fun debate and speculation either way


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The Shop

EngIceDave
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12/9/2020 6:31am
Thanks, AJ

Thought you could add a little here
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Steve125
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12/9/2020 8:40am
There's lotsa KX5 love in this thread but I need to put in a vote for the CR5 over the KX5. Just personal preference but in my side by side comparison back around 1993, the CR motor was more "lively", the KX was more "tractor'. The CR also cornered better, and definitely had better ergos. Now talk about Forks? KX all the way. I do think either bike is competitive today. If I had either one I'd build a Slim, low slung alloy tank for it, put on modern Forks and Shock, and go racing. Notice I didn't say swap to an Aluminum frame..
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12/9/2020 11:21am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2020 11:22am
Dropbear wrote:
Herring 1996 [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/09/464314/s1200_A9162C68_8DA9_48D0_9D6D_33A0D7469F06.jpg[/img]
Herring 1996
Emig 1996
Skip to 5:50 for a sick downhill jump on his KX5
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JWACK
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12/9/2020 11:47am
Dropbear wrote:
Herring 1996 [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/09/464314/s1200_A9162C68_8DA9_48D0_9D6D_33A0D7469F06.jpg[/img]
Herring 1996
Emig 1996
Skip to 5:50 for a sick downhill jump on his KX5
And then gets passed on the outside by Lamson riding the 125!
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12/9/2020 11:51am
Jerry Robin has entered the chat.
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12/9/2020 11:55am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2020 12:04pm
I was riding this beauty last weekend. CR500 (stroked to 540) motor with every imaginable mod in a 2018 Husky 450 chassis. Amazing machine but very difficult to ride fast. After years of testing the steel frame doesn’t vibrate quite the same way as the Aluminum Honda Chassis and is nicer for the rider.



I have to think anyone would be faster on a 450.
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12/9/2020 1:07pm
JWACK wrote:
And then gets passed on the outside by Lamson riding the 125!
Emig moved to the outside on the next lap to allow Lammy to pass on the inside. Smart team tactics.
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Mxracer607
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12/9/2020 1:26pm
If you do the right things to a cr85 they are still competitive. That’s if your rider rides 85s like they are 125s. The cr85 motor delivers like a yz125

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kage173
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12/9/2020 3:06pm
All 500s are of the devil
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brimx153
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12/9/2020 3:31pm
Imo if u put ET 3 on a factory 250 two stroke. He would still beat the likes of A Ray if he was on ET 3 factory 450 . So in theory i d call a 250 two stroke still competitive. Just there is no way someone could win on one against the very top riders on 450s . But put k roc ET 3 etc on a 250 , they can be getting top 10 - 15 s
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12/9/2020 5:19pm
Was a CR500 The most competitive bike 20years ago?
mx4l
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12/9/2020 5:33pm
Mxracer607 wrote:
If you do the right things to a cr85 they are still competitive. That’s if your rider rides 85s like they are 125s. The cr85 motor...
If you do the right things to a cr85 they are still competitive. That’s if your rider rides 85s like they are 125s. The cr85 motor delivers like a yz125

What if you ride/keep it stock? : )



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mwssquad827
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12/9/2020 7:00pm
The seats on both bikes back then felt like you where sitting in a saddle... my 96 kx5oo had awesome suspension front and back and it was sprung for me at all... the kx doesn’t turn the best but it “ta tings” you into corners.. my buddies cr 500 is stupid twitchy at speed and he has a lot of money in his front forks to fix it... back in the day the kx500 was the shit.. MOTO and Baja.. and sorry AJ but I have rode a few conversions and even one of yours and I didn’t care for 500 and aluminum frames. I would like to try one in a KTM frame tho... either flavor you pick kx or cr I love seeing the 30+ year old bikes at the track or desert races!!! Good bless the vintage bikes!!🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
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hartebreak
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12/9/2020 7:37pm
A modern built CR500 with new chassis, new suspension and an adjustable ECU would be ridiculously good. Add traction control and its a world beater.
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bvm111
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12/9/2020 7:47pm
mx4l wrote:
What if you ride/keep it stock? : ) [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/09/464447/s1200_IMG_1764.jpg[/img]
What if you ride/keep it stock? : )



that was my first real motorcycle back in 1987... great memories!
SCC
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12/9/2020 8:00pm
I love my KTM450fe but will take a steel frame CR500 over it any day on a deep sand track solely for the fun factor. Something about throwing 3 yards of dirt in the air every corner never seems to get old. And last time I checked having fun was more important than my lap times.
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Dropbear
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12/9/2020 8:12pm
One of my favourite memories was the Australian 2000 500 MXGP led by Michael Byrne on a near stock CR500 and Andrew McFarlane on a KX500 hybrid. One of the last hurrahs for the big 2 strokea.
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Bearuno
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12/10/2020 6:16am
I was riding this beauty last weekend. CR500 (stroked to 540) motor with every imaginable mod in a 2018 Husky 450 chassis. Amazing machine but very...
I was riding this beauty last weekend. CR500 (stroked to 540) motor with every imaginable mod in a 2018 Husky 450 chassis. Amazing machine but very difficult to ride fast. After years of testing the steel frame doesn’t vibrate quite the same way as the Aluminum Honda Chassis and is nicer for the rider.



I have to think anyone would be faster on a 450.
I don't see a barrel spacer on it (though it might be my crap screen resolution), so it implies that you're using the earlier CR500 short rod to accommodate the longer stroke. Is that correct?

If so, it would be quite a hyper engine, I would think - of course, dependent on whatever engine mods you have.

So, It's no surprise to me that it would be very difficult to ride fast Woohoo

As to Max's question : well, it's a bit of click bait from him. As someone earlier wrote, it would be down to a very high level rider / seasoned Pro - as the subject of the videos, Neville Bradshaw most certainly is - being on a well set up older bike, and there's quite a few bikes that could still be very competitive with the right rider. It's Motocross, still requiring far more from the Rider, than the machine, and, it always will.

CR500 vs KX500 ? - take your pick, both old Monsters , both Big Teddy Bears. Both, Enormous Fun - that you need to be somewhat careful with Whistling .
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Chance1216
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12/10/2020 7:12am
Related question. I had a 92 CR 500. I know it was detuned from I believe 87-92. Then after 92 it was basically the same with minor changes through 01. My question is, how much harder were the earlier years to ride in comparison?
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Hasletjoe
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Haslet, TX US
12/10/2020 7:18am
I have been beaten by older guys on newer bikes. I have been beaten by younger guys on older bikes. Heck I have pretty much been beaten by just about every combination there is. I think I got passed by a corner worker a time or two.

Good thing about the newer bikes, they are past and gone quickly. The older bikes tend to want to roost me more.

But to me, it is just about the fun........
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12/10/2020 8:03am
Every single bike from 20 years ago can be competitive for the vast majority of riders/classes. By 2000, dirtbikes were pretty damn mature.
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Mxracer607
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12/10/2020 8:06am
Mxracer607 wrote:
If you do the right things to a cr85 they are still competitive. That’s if your rider rides 85s like they are 125s. The cr85 motor...
If you do the right things to a cr85 they are still competitive. That’s if your rider rides 85s like they are 125s. The cr85 motor delivers like a yz125

mx4l wrote:
What if you ride/keep it stock? : ) [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/09/464447/s1200_IMG_1764.jpg[/img]
What if you ride/keep it stock? : )



Jeez that’s a clean 80 😂. Ya I say you keep that one on display
H4L
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12/12/2020 11:41am
Nope.. The 3rd gen AF CR250r is still competitive against modern orange & white KTM's. This is the same rider Neville on a 02 CR250r which by many is considered the worst 250 2t engine ever built.. From the vid it states it only has a Dep pipe & suspension work. Impressive to say the least since he's racing against I believe a Factory 17 KTM (250 or 300?) with the previous yr. champ. It is also at the higher level of racing in their country.

If you want to skip the intro of the vid you can go to the 9:55 min. mark..

https://youtu.be/A4eNJop_KC8
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12/12/2020 12:13pm
The only bike still competitive in its class 20 years later is a PW50, hands down still rips.
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kiwifan
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12/12/2020 12:21pm
Chance1216 wrote:
Related question. I had a 92 CR 500. I know it was detuned from I believe 87-92. Then after 92 it was basically the same with...
Related question. I had a 92 CR 500. I know it was detuned from I believe 87-92. Then after 92 it was basically the same with minor changes through 01. My question is, how much harder were the earlier years to ride in comparison?
I have a 85 CR500 (not with stock suspension)....its fun to ride! lol
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Chance1216
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12/12/2020 12:33pm
Chance1216 wrote:
Related question. I had a 92 CR 500. I know it was detuned from I believe 87-92. Then after 92 it was basically the same with...
Related question. I had a 92 CR 500. I know it was detuned from I believe 87-92. Then after 92 it was basically the same with minor changes through 01. My question is, how much harder were the earlier years to ride in comparison?
kiwifan wrote:
I have a 85 CR500 (not with stock suspension)....its fun to ride! lol
I did have an air cooled 84 that was like a light switch for lack of better words. I was only 19 at the time. Had a lot of issues with jetting and ultimately had to get the head cut a little to get rid of the detonation. Nothing like a scary, lock to lock bar swap. I got rid of it like the dummy I was and, got an 88 CR 250. I wish I could’ve kept a lot of bikes I’ve had over the years. Ill mannered or not, old 500s are still the crown jewel of two strokes to me.
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