Salary Caps

Edited Date/Time 10/18/2020 8:56am
Let's face it. The time is now.

We need to figure out a way to get 3+ guys on every 450 team.

Also, bring back Marlboro, Bud Light and anything else to get the dollars flowing.
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10/15/2020 5:30am
Can someone fill me in on what happened with the beer sponsors? I guess I get the cigarette thing but I don't see where a beer sponsor has to be so bad..if that's even the reason. I don't get it.

In addition, what's the loophole that Twisted Tea found to be able to sponsor? We/they definitely need to find some big companies to get involved with the sport. I realize that I'm preaching to the choir.
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crowe660
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10/15/2020 5:35am
If we could get White Claw in the sport, we could all be rich.
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zookrider62!
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10/15/2020 5:55am
Can someone fill me in on what happened with the beer sponsors? I guess I get the cigarette thing but I don't see where a beer...
Can someone fill me in on what happened with the beer sponsors? I guess I get the cigarette thing but I don't see where a beer sponsor has to be so bad..if that's even the reason. I don't get it.

In addition, what's the loophole that Twisted Tea found to be able to sponsor? We/they definitely need to find some big companies to get involved with the sport. I realize that I'm preaching to the choir.
I thought the only stipulation for an alcoholic beverage to sponsor a team, was that everyone riding for them must be of drinking age. Outside of that, I dont think there is anything stopping them from being a part of a team.
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Bruce372
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10/15/2020 6:27am
Are rider unions and salary caps a form of socialism?
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The Shop

kb228
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10/15/2020 6:31am
I dont know how an outside body is going to tell honda or kawasaki the maximum they can pay their employees. Sounds like some anti capitalism BS to me.
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slowgti
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10/15/2020 6:37am
Can you tell me what the average 450 salary is? Until you can do that, how are you supposed to know where the cap should be?
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early
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10/15/2020 6:41am Edited Date/Time 10/15/2020 6:42am
I've said it before and I'll say it again. 250sx should be a national series. Factory's should support 3 450 riders, and 3 250 riders instead of 2 450 and 4 250. This amounts to the same number of rider jobs, better opportunity when moving up, more backup in both classes when injuries strike, and better competition (more meaningful championships) in the 250 class.
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mikec265
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10/15/2020 6:47am
Salary caps.. No way! That would allow slower guys to make the same as a championship contender. Just like how unions allow shit employees to make the same as the good workers. If you are a great employee you deserve more if the company can afford it. If you are a crap employee who doesn't produce enough to cover your own wages and insurances, you should be canned or starved out.
You should not be entitled to anything unless you legitimately earn it!

They definitely need to let the money come in from booze and cigarettes. I'm okay with not using the products, telling my kids it's stupid, and setting an example.
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Cortami79
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10/15/2020 7:00am
How about increasing price money (or even add it in the GP's), so privateers can at least cover their costs properly.
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8k4x6f
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10/15/2020 7:22am
...if there were no privateers, would the show still go on?
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10/15/2020 7:29am Edited Date/Time 10/15/2020 9:33am
slowgti wrote:
Can you tell me what the average 450 salary is? Until you can do that, how are you supposed to know where the cap should be?
My guess is the median 450 pro "salary" before personal sponsorships would be about negative $7,000/yr
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10/15/2020 7:59am Edited Date/Time 10/15/2020 8:21am
Winners sell bikes. I’m not saying that is the only factor in making a bike purchase, but the only reason factory teams exist is to prove that their bike can win at the highest level. Look at where KTM was before the RD (Dungey, Decoster) team came on board. By winning races, the RD team and KTM almost instantly displaced Suzuki in the big 4. If it wasn’t for injuries, factory teams would only be paying for a single rider (the one they think can bring home a championship and help sell bikes). Everyone loves the charisma of the JGR team, but their inability to win is part of the reason Suzuki isn’t in the big 4 any longer.
Mel Harris, former head honcho at Suzuki is now the VP at SSR. If SSR was capable of producing a bike that could win races, you better believe they would be throwing huge dollars at a top rider so he could prove the capability of SSR in Supercross. Hiring a guy who rides around in 10th would be worth nothing to them. That is why the top dogs demand such a huge piece of the pie.
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spimx
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10/15/2020 8:07am
not having beer sponsors is stupid
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kb228
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10/15/2020 8:08am
early wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again. 250sx should be a national series. Factory's should support 3 450 riders, and 3 250 riders instead...
I've said it before and I'll say it again. 250sx should be a national series. Factory's should support 3 450 riders, and 3 250 riders instead of 2 450 and 4 250. This amounts to the same number of rider jobs, better opportunity when moving up, more backup in both classes when injuries strike, and better competition (more meaningful championships) in the 250 class.
They can afford it too. Kawasaki was netting 20-30 billion per year before shit hit the fan with china virus.
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OldPro277
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10/15/2020 8:11am
mikec265 wrote:
Salary caps.. No way! That would allow slower guys to make the same as a championship contender. Just like how unions allow shit employees to make...
Salary caps.. No way! That would allow slower guys to make the same as a championship contender. Just like how unions allow shit employees to make the same as the good workers. If you are a great employee you deserve more if the company can afford it. If you are a crap employee who doesn't produce enough to cover your own wages and insurances, you should be canned or starved out.
You should not be entitled to anything unless you legitimately earn it!

They definitely need to let the money come in from booze and cigarettes. I'm okay with not using the products, telling my kids it's stupid, and setting an example.
Mike-- A couple of things- First , a "Salary cap" doesn't mean that all of your employees make the same . It means that the maximum amount a Team can pay out total to its employess (racers) is $ X. They can divide it up anyway they see fit. Ben Roethlisberger makes a shit ton more than Bennie Snell for example, but the Steelers still have a Salary cap to contend with.
Also ,all major sports teams that deal with a salary cap ,have the same number of players on the team that their competitors do, while in Moto that's obviously not the case. You'll never be able to force a race team to have 3 450 guys and 3 250 guys or whatever number you 're thinking about. It's tough enough for these teams to find enough outside sponsor money to survive year to year ,let alone forcing a minimum number of contracted riders on them. I won't even bother listing all the teams that have folded in the past 10 years because of funding issues.

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10/15/2020 8:16am Edited Date/Time 10/15/2020 8:18am
I think a lot of you guys are missing the point. Championship contenders would still make more than the other guys. Just like how it works in the NFL. Each team has a set amount they can pay each year.

I feel like this would level the playing field.

Also, top pros have advocated for this. Chad reed said "As an athlete it hurts me to say this but I do believe there needs to be some form of a salary cap in the lites class. I think that’s more important than capping them on how many years (points), because everyone develops differently". Chad is eluding to the fact that there are tons of riders looking for rides and other riders taking up a majority of the $$.

Looking to the future and the health of the sport. I think there needs to be more incentive for the younger generation to want to race and turn pro. We see this all the time with riders retiring early and ETC. Right now the reward is not worth the risk. If they did something to guarantee everyone a livable wage then we would see more people racing longer..
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10/15/2020 8:20am
spimx wrote:
not having beer sponsors is stupid
Not having beer sponsors is not by choice (at least the choice of MX/SX).

Three trade industry groups, the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States (DISCUS), the Beer Institute (BI), and the Wine Institute, chose to self-regulate with some advertising guidelines that lead members to drop out of advertising in the "action sports" segment, that they view as "youth-targeted".
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bvm111
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10/15/2020 8:33am
pretty sure the contingency money has been capped for like 30 years!
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4DAIVIPAI2K5
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10/15/2020 8:41am
Winners sell bikes. I’m not saying that is the only factor in making a bike purchase, but the only reason factory teams exist is to prove...
Winners sell bikes. I’m not saying that is the only factor in making a bike purchase, but the only reason factory teams exist is to prove that their bike can win at the highest level. Look at where KTM was before the RD (Dungey, Decoster) team came on board. By winning races, the RD team and KTM almost instantly displaced Suzuki in the big 4. If it wasn’t for injuries, factory teams would only be paying for a single rider (the one they think can bring home a championship and help sell bikes). Everyone loves the charisma of the JGR team, but their inability to win is part of the reason Suzuki isn’t in the big 4 any longer.
Mel Harris, former head honcho at Suzuki is now the VP at SSR. If SSR was capable of producing a bike that could win races, you better believe they would be throwing huge dollars at a top rider so he could prove the capability of SSR in Supercross. Hiring a guy who rides around in 10th would be worth nothing to them. That is why the top dogs demand such a huge piece of the pie.
Didn't RCH and Suzuki close up after just winning a title with Kenny?

Suzuki has more big bike championship in the past like 20 years then Honda and Yamaha combined.
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Question
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10/15/2020 8:51am
Loving the socialism vs. capitalism debate whereas I don't see many multi billionnaires members.
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bierbower105
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10/15/2020 8:57am
spimx wrote:
not having beer sponsors is stupid
I know - beer is awesome.
BroFoSho
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10/15/2020 8:58am
kb228 wrote:
They can afford it too. Kawasaki was netting 20-30 billion per year before shit hit the fan with china virus.
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10/15/2020 9:01am
The hard truth that I think a lot of people don't want to admit, is that the sport we all love is a very niche sport and, in comparison to the rest of the sporting world (motorsport/ stick and ball), has very little eyes on it. Regardless of regulations, we won't get the big name Bud Light sponsorships anymore because it simply is not worth it for them on an advertising level.
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10/15/2020 9:03am
Winners sell bikes. I’m not saying that is the only factor in making a bike purchase, but the only reason factory teams exist is to prove...
Winners sell bikes. I’m not saying that is the only factor in making a bike purchase, but the only reason factory teams exist is to prove that their bike can win at the highest level. Look at where KTM was before the RD (Dungey, Decoster) team came on board. By winning races, the RD team and KTM almost instantly displaced Suzuki in the big 4. If it wasn’t for injuries, factory teams would only be paying for a single rider (the one they think can bring home a championship and help sell bikes). Everyone loves the charisma of the JGR team, but their inability to win is part of the reason Suzuki isn’t in the big 4 any longer.
Mel Harris, former head honcho at Suzuki is now the VP at SSR. If SSR was capable of producing a bike that could win races, you better believe they would be throwing huge dollars at a top rider so he could prove the capability of SSR in Supercross. Hiring a guy who rides around in 10th would be worth nothing to them. That is why the top dogs demand such a huge piece of the pie.
Didn't RCH and Suzuki close up after just winning a title with Kenny? Suzuki has more big bike championship in the past like 20 years then...
Didn't RCH and Suzuki close up after just winning a title with Kenny?

Suzuki has more big bike championship in the past like 20 years then Honda and Yamaha combined.
You ain't lyin'..
kb228
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10/15/2020 9:06am
kb228 wrote:
They can afford it too. Kawasaki was netting 20-30 billion per year before shit hit the fan with china virus.
BroFoSho wrote:
[img]https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/214BJZEhpHL._AC_UY218_.jpg[/img]
Look at their financial statements.

Q2 2019 KHI Japans net income was 4.51B.

KHI US 2019 Q2 netted 41.78M.

Honda motors US netted 4.22B in 2019.

Honda motors japan netted 455B in 2019.

These companies can afford it if they wanted to raise the budget for racing.
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10/15/2020 9:11am
kb228 wrote:
They can afford it too. Kawasaki was netting 20-30 billion per year before shit hit the fan with china virus.
BroFoSho wrote:
[img]https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/214BJZEhpHL._AC_UY218_.jpg[/img]
kb228 wrote:
Look at their financial statements. Q2 2019 KHI Japans net income was 4.51B. KHI US 2019 Q2 netted 41.78M. Honda motors US netted 4.22B in 2019...
Look at their financial statements.

Q2 2019 KHI Japans net income was 4.51B.

KHI US 2019 Q2 netted 41.78M.

Honda motors US netted 4.22B in 2019.

Honda motors japan netted 455B in 2019.

These companies can afford it if they wanted to raise the budget for racing.
i would imagine motorcycles sales is a small part of that.
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10/15/2020 9:14am
kb228 wrote:
They can afford it too. Kawasaki was netting 20-30 billion per year before shit hit the fan with china virus.
BroFoSho wrote:
[img]https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/214BJZEhpHL._AC_UY218_.jpg[/img]
kb228 wrote:
Look at their financial statements. Q2 2019 KHI Japans net income was 4.51B. KHI US 2019 Q2 netted 41.78M. Honda motors US netted 4.22B in 2019...
Look at their financial statements.

Q2 2019 KHI Japans net income was 4.51B.

KHI US 2019 Q2 netted 41.78M.

Honda motors US netted 4.22B in 2019.

Honda motors japan netted 455B in 2019.

These companies can afford it if they wanted to raise the budget for racing.
I don't know about yours, but typically a business entity's net income and what is actually available are two very different things.
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Brent
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10/15/2020 9:20am Edited Date/Time 10/15/2020 9:23am
Let's face it. The time is now. We need to figure out a way to get 3+ guys on every 450 team. Also, bring back Marlboro...
Let's face it. The time is now.

We need to figure out a way to get 3+ guys on every 450 team.

Also, bring back Marlboro, Bud Light and anything else to get the dollars flowing.
Sorry, I must have missed a memo.

Who exactly is “We”?

Last time I checked, this is a website for fans, hobbyists and grumpy old white men.

When did it turn into a policy making think tank?
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731chopper
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10/15/2020 9:21am
Bruce372 wrote:
Are rider unions and salary caps a form of socialism?
No. Private enterprise such as motorcycle racing has nothing to do with public policy.
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10/15/2020 9:23am Edited Date/Time 10/15/2020 10:33am
i would imagine motorcycles sales is a small part of that.
And even in the motorcycle category, North America is a very small part of that, and MX bikes a fractional slice of the North American motorcycle market.
.
Let's take a look at Yamaha's annual report (because they have pictures):



That little tiny slice above Japan is total units of all North American Yamaha motorcycles: dirt, street, scooter. You could DOUBLE your unit sales across all categories, and it still would be equal to a 1-2% unit change in their Asian small-bore market. What do you suspect management promotional dollar focus is on?
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