Suzuki has let go of the R&D department

Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:

I don't want to see any brand go by the wayside, or scale down on R&D. Having said that, I have learned to let the Suzuki...

I don't want to see any brand go by the wayside, or scale down on R&D. Having said that, I have learned to let the Suzuki guys have their bike, and do their thing. I don't have a problem with it because they are still out there having fun on a dirt bike.

deadlo wrote:

That was sarcasm bud. And you actually help prove my point that bringing up Ricky, chad, dungey, stew, roczen riding a suzuki does not prove at...

That was sarcasm bud. And you actually help prove my point that bringing up Ricky, chad, dungey, stew, roczen riding a suzuki does not prove at all that the current rmz is any good. Those guys could have rode a bicycle in their hayday anyway and still won.

The suzuki they “updated” was the worst of the bikes since it came out. I am aware there are some upgrades that can be done to make it good, but has suzuki made any of those changes to the bike since then? Nah not really. And once you make those upgrades to have the bike as good as the others, how much money have you actually spent on a bike that will still weigh more with a kickstart.

Every suzuki thread past champs get brought up and I literally have no clue why. “The current suzuki they keep putting out sucks” “but but but if it sucks then how did Ricky win on a suzuki”. Lmao shut up

xrmark wrote:

I feel like you/re one of those people that hates on suzuki just because its the cool thing to do. Like that motomemes page. Have you...

I feel like you/re one of those people that hates on suzuki just because its the cool thing to do. Like that motomemes page. Have you ever ridden one? My guess is no. They're great reliable bikes that are cheap. I get favoring a brand but just flat out hating a brand because they haven't updated to your standards is pretty lame.

deadlo wrote:

My last bike was an rmz 450. I’ve also owned the 250 and an rm125...... Currently own a husky fc450. I really think you brand loyal...

My last bike was an rmz 450. I’ve also owned the 250 and an rm125......


Currently own a husky fc450. I really think you brand loyal suzuki guys haven’t ridden a newer any other bike. It isn’t like suzuki 1.) is made in America 2.) cares about you enough to update anything on their bike in years. So why be so loyal? So once again, give your hard earned money to a company doing things right (any of the others). And also once again, it’s cheaper because you are buying years old bike....im sure if ktm had a leftover 2016 it’d be marked down just as much and still better lol.

xrmark wrote:

I feel like you/re one of those people that hates on suzuki just because its the cool thing to do. Like that motomemes page. Have you...

I feel like you/re one of those people that hates on suzuki just because its the cool thing to do. Like that motomemes page. Have you ever ridden one? My guess is no. They're great reliable bikes that are cheap. I get favoring a brand but just flat out hating a brand because they haven't updated to your standards is pretty lame.

deadlo wrote:

My last bike was an rmz 450. I’ve also owned the 250 and an rm125...... Currently own a husky fc450. I really think you brand loyal...

My last bike was an rmz 450. I’ve also owned the 250 and an rm125......


Currently own a husky fc450. I really think you brand loyal suzuki guys haven’t ridden a newer any other bike. It isn’t like suzuki 1.) is made in America 2.) cares about you enough to update anything on their bike in years. So why be so loyal? So once again, give your hard earned money to a company doing things right (any of the others). And also once again, it’s cheaper because you are buying years old bike....im sure if ktm had a leftover 2016 it’d be marked down just as much and still better lol.

Underground wrote:

For the record, what year was your last Suzuki? Was the suspension stock? When was it last serviced? Did you play with the clickers and preload?

reded wrote:

I see two different sides to this Suzuki thing. Their bike is outdated but serviceable and has more potential than 99% of the riders on the...

I see two different sides to this Suzuki thing. Their bike is outdated but serviceable and has more potential than 99% of the riders on the planet but it still appeals to the crowd who don’t need the shootout winner year after year. If you’re THAT late to the party, what’s the use in even going, start you’re own party.

The other side of the coin tells me that maybe they’re the ones doing it right. Instead of throwing money at the bike, put it into contingency and let the grassroots guys earn some cash at the end of the day. If it were easier to make some money at the amateur level, there may be more people still involved or at least interested in the sport.

kiwifan wrote:

99% that is a bit harsh isnt it? I agree with all that the RMZ450 is a decent bike, yes it is down a few (not...

99% that is a bit harsh isnt it?

I agree with all that the RMZ450 is a decent bike, yes it is down a few (not just a couple) HP compared to others, has lesser suspension ability than others, doesnt have ES like others but hey its a decent bike.

Now let us say (for arguements sake) you have a group of riders of the same ability/skills/etc that always race each other, and they all have the other brands apart from one who rides the Zook, 99 times out of 100 the other brand guys will go faster, so what does Zook guy have to do? he has to spend a lot more money getting more HP or getting his suspension upgraded (but he thinks that is ok I got my Zook cheaper so will only end up paying what the others have), then he is AS fast as the others and may definitely win more but then the other guys then hop up their other brands....

Now if you only trail ride, or race locally and perhaps dont give a shit about winning, or are a pro and race against intermediate/expert riders, etc etc then yeah thats great, the Zook may be ideal

Yes, the Suzuki contingency is very very good. And again, the RMZ is a decent bike but certainly not by any means a great bike, compared to others.

Just my humble opinion....

mattyhamz2 wrote:

For the guys saying the Suzuki is cheaper because it’s less bike.... No other color bike will make me fast enough to make it worth spending...

For the guys saying the Suzuki is cheaper because it’s less bike....

No other color bike will make me fast enough to make it worth spending an extra couple grand. I’m just as fast on a Suzuki as I was on my YZ250 and on any other bike out there.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

For the guys saying the Suzuki is cheaper because it’s less bike.... No other color bike will make me fast enough to make it worth spending...

For the guys saying the Suzuki is cheaper because it’s less bike....

No other color bike will make me fast enough to make it worth spending an extra couple grand. I’m just as fast on a Suzuki as I was on my YZ250 and on any other bike out there.

Brtp4 wrote:

Of course, and the musings of halfwits who have zero grasp of product planning, R+D costs, marketing, distributions affect on sales, amortization, profitably, the state of...

Of course, and the musings of halfwits who have zero grasp of product planning, R+D costs, marketing, distributions affect on sales, amortization, profitably, the state of the US market, or really any clue at all about business or any meaningful topic more technical than what the shift pattern is, are irrelevant. Each post occupies the same amount of space on the page, suggesting they have equal merit, but that merit varies wildly. Most are just random noise on the internet in an attempt to grasp at some sense of importance.

BP

mattyhamz2 wrote:

For the guys saying the Suzuki is cheaper because it’s less bike.... No other color bike will make me fast enough to make it worth spending...

For the guys saying the Suzuki is cheaper because it’s less bike....

No other color bike will make me fast enough to make it worth spending an extra couple grand. I’m just as fast on a Suzuki as I was on my YZ250 and on any other bike out there.

Brtp4 wrote:

Of course, and the musings of halfwits who have zero grasp of product planning, R+D costs, marketing, distributions affect on sales, amortization, profitably, the state of...

Of course, and the musings of halfwits who have zero grasp of product planning, R+D costs, marketing, distributions affect on sales, amortization, profitably, the state of the US market, or really any clue at all about business or any meaningful topic more technical than what the shift pattern is, are irrelevant. Each post occupies the same amount of space on the page, suggesting they have equal merit, but that merit varies wildly. Most are just random noise on the internet in an attempt to grasp at some sense of importance.

BP

dirtbikemike wrote:

My little AX team was on KTMs for the last seven years. Suddenly, no KTM dealers would give me the time of day when it came...

My little AX team was on KTMs for the last seven years. Suddenly, no KTM dealers would give me the time of day when it came to a deal for 3-4 bikes. It's not like I was asking for free bikes, I pay for them. We went with Suzuki because of price. Yes, the kickstarter seems like the Flintstones, but damn I've been kicking bikes for 60 years. We beat a lot of other brands this year and my riders were entry level Pros. They were happy to be on any bike I sponsored them on and if we ever start racing again it will be on Suzukis.

deadlo wrote:

My last bike was an rmz 450. I’ve also owned the 250 and an rm125...... Currently own a husky fc450. I really think you brand loyal...

My last bike was an rmz 450. I’ve also owned the 250 and an rm125......


Currently own a husky fc450. I really think you brand loyal suzuki guys haven’t ridden a newer any other bike. It isn’t like suzuki 1.) is made in America 2.) cares about you enough to update anything on their bike in years. So why be so loyal? So once again, give your hard earned money to a company doing things right (any of the others). And also once again, it’s cheaper because you are buying years old bike....im sure if ktm had a leftover 2016 it’d be marked down just as much and still better lol.

Underground wrote:

For the record, what year was your last Suzuki? Was the suspension stock? When was it last serviced? Did you play with the clickers and preload?

deadlo wrote:

2018 rmz 450 for a year, 2012 Rmz450 for about 2-3 years. The 2012 was probably comparable to bikes of that time. The 2018 was absolute...

2018 rmz 450 for a year, 2012 Rmz450 for about 2-3 years. The 2012 was probably comparable to bikes of that time. The 2018 was absolute shit. I think the 2012 may have been better lmao. Those are bikes I personally owned, so I do have a say in this. I also rode the 2019 with a lot of modifications and suspension work, still a terrible feeling bike. The chassis is straight up not balanced right.

Now own the husky and realize how heavy that bike was also. That weight difference is huge. Mapping on the fly, traction control, balanced bike, e start, way lighter, literally everything about these new bikes are better. Do yourself a favor and BUY one! Not ride your different size buddies for a lap. Just give it a shot. You will not go back. Who knows, hopefully suzuki does come out swinging. I would love that! But seems they are going the opposite way. We should all be pissed, but you guys are so stubborn. Whatever though, I don’t want to argue anymore. Keep your heavy pig and I truly hope you enjoy it.

There is also no way any of u had e start or a new model year bike and went back to suzuki voluntarily. E start alone is worth the money lmao. I can stall in a corner, restart and you would never even know I stalled. How many pros stall or bike cuts on a wreck. So let’s add that kicking time/energy into the equation. I don’t race anymore so that time doesn’t matter, but still dudes I’m telling you E start with weight savings over the zook is amazing. Just to clarify since you guys read only e start and act like that’s the only thing....NO, that’s just a bonus. If it were opposite and only rmz had e start, but everything else the same, Id still choose the others.

malachi177 wrote:

Fuck the haters. Love my ‘19. Its comical reading people here pushing “their opinion” about the bike like its the Gospel😂..yes deadlo I mean you. Thx...

Fuck the haters. Love my ‘19. Its comical reading people here pushing “their opinion” about the bike like its the Gospel😂..yes deadlo I mean you. Thx Team Green, this bike IS very good off road🤘🏻‘

deadlo wrote:

“Each post occupies the same amount of space on the page, suggesting they have equal merit, but that merit varies wildly. Most are just random noise...

“Each post occupies the same amount of space on the page, suggesting they have equal merit, but that merit varies wildly. Most are just random noise on the internet in an attempt to grasp at some sense of importance.”

....exactly what your post is 😂. What have you contributed to this thread? Calling people halfwits based off a discussion on a thread when you have no clue what any of us do for a living or what we know about business. Id ride with any of you that don’t agree with my posts. No hard feelings, it’s a freaking internet thread meant to spark discussion.

deadlo wrote:

My last bike was an rmz 450. I’ve also owned the 250 and an rm125...... Currently own a husky fc450. I really think you brand loyal...

My last bike was an rmz 450. I’ve also owned the 250 and an rm125......


Currently own a husky fc450. I really think you brand loyal suzuki guys haven’t ridden a newer any other bike. It isn’t like suzuki 1.) is made in America 2.) cares about you enough to update anything on their bike in years. So why be so loyal? So once again, give your hard earned money to a company doing things right (any of the others). And also once again, it’s cheaper because you are buying years old bike....im sure if ktm had a leftover 2016 it’d be marked down just as much and still better lol.

Underground wrote:

For the record, what year was your last Suzuki? Was the suspension stock? When was it last serviced? Did you play with the clickers and preload?

deadlo wrote:

2018 rmz 450 for a year, 2012 Rmz450 for about 2-3 years. The 2012 was probably comparable to bikes of that time. The 2018 was absolute...

2018 rmz 450 for a year, 2012 Rmz450 for about 2-3 years. The 2012 was probably comparable to bikes of that time. The 2018 was absolute shit. I think the 2012 may have been better lmao. Those are bikes I personally owned, so I do have a say in this. I also rode the 2019 with a lot of modifications and suspension work, still a terrible feeling bike. The chassis is straight up not balanced right.

Now own the husky and realize how heavy that bike was also. That weight difference is huge. Mapping on the fly, traction control, balanced bike, e start, way lighter, literally everything about these new bikes are better. Do yourself a favor and BUY one! Not ride your different size buddies for a lap. Just give it a shot. You will not go back. Who knows, hopefully suzuki does come out swinging. I would love that! But seems they are going the opposite way. We should all be pissed, but you guys are so stubborn. Whatever though, I don’t want to argue anymore. Keep your heavy pig and I truly hope you enjoy it.

There is also no way any of u had e start or a new model year bike and went back to suzuki voluntarily. E start alone is worth the money lmao. I can stall in a corner, restart and you would never even know I stalled. How many pros stall or bike cuts on a wreck. So let’s add that kicking time/energy into the equation. I don’t race anymore so that time doesn’t matter, but still dudes I’m telling you E start with weight savings over the zook is amazing. Just to clarify since you guys read only e start and act like that’s the only thing....NO, that’s just a bonus. If it were opposite and only rmz had e start, but everything else the same, Id still choose the others.

deadlo wrote:

“Each post occupies the same amount of space on the page, suggesting they have equal merit, but that merit varies wildly. Most are just random noise...

“Each post occupies the same amount of space on the page, suggesting they have equal merit, but that merit varies wildly. Most are just random noise on the internet in an attempt to grasp at some sense of importance.”

....exactly what your post is 😂. What have you contributed to this thread? Calling people halfwits based off a discussion on a thread when you have no clue what any of us do for a living or what we know about business. Id ride with any of you that don’t agree with my posts. No hard feelings, it’s a freaking internet thread meant to spark discussion.

Brtp4 wrote:

It's not that you are happier with your Husky, it is that you are are shitting on anyone that buys a Suzuki. Here is the thing...

It's not that you are happier with your Husky, it is that you are are shitting on anyone that buys a Suzuki.

Here is the thing: people completely skip over the fact that KTM / Husky is a tiny company, their numbers are not interesting to the Japanese, and focusing on the the US market is a money loser. Great bikes, niche company.

The Japanese companies - correctly - know there is no money developing new models. Better to milk the existing ones and try to make small cheap bikes. Whatever you think of me, know that it hurts me as much as you to hear this, but it is OVER for dirt bikes here. Sure, there will always be some hard core users like you - and I - here, and I will be happy to say hi if I see you. But the numbers do not work here for the Japanese anymore period, end of story.

KTM / Husky sells 320,00 models worldwide. Total. Great for them, own one myself, but not really a lot of units. They sell less than 50,000 units of ALL models in the US. Street, dirt, Dual sport, etc. Suzuki used to sell more GSXR 600s - one model - that that in a year. I have it on good authority that nationwide, the 500 EXC sells more units than all the SX models combined. KTM sales in the US are up <4% which is about 2000 more bikes. I am sure most of those are 790s, 1290s, and FI 2T off road models, NOT motocross models. If I had to guess, I would peg KTM NA at selling around 10k of ALL MX models, every displacement, annually in the US. It's probably less. Frankly I scratch my head at how they make the R+D and the marketing budgets line out

The reason KTM is kicking Japan's ass is 1000% because the Japanese are letting them. They cannot make the US market work for them any more.That should concern us all.

Also, people diss Suzuki about being in dire straits but that is not a concern. Suzuki is diversified, and will be fine. OTOH, note that KTM nearly went bankrupt in 2009. Needed concessions from the Austrian government. Needed cash. Only by taking on cash from Bajaj were they able to stay afloat, and they barely own a majority. Bajaj owns 49.8% of KTM. They have a few rough quarters and it is not incomprehensible that they lose control to Bajaj. You know that, right?

That cheap, old tech Suzuki is one of the best things that can happen here. Who fucking cares if it is competitive, if it is affordable, it may bring in some new people. Who then may trade up to more tech bikes. It beats the shit out of a used bike on Craigslist. But some cannot stop themselves from ridiculing people because they don't have e-start. Who cares?

Vomiting my every thought onto the internet is not a thing for me. I try to only post when I have something meaningful to contribute, and go out of my way not to carelessly say inflammatory things. This is my contribution to this thread: Many of the people who claim to love the sport are unwittingly destroying it, because they are utterly lacking in discipline. They cannot stop themselves from trashing people who do not ride the same way they do, right down to having the same bike.

BP

deadlo wrote:

Read your post man, and go back and read most of mine. SUPPORT the companies that care about us!!!! You literally just laid it out. You...

Read your post man, and go back and read most of mine. SUPPORT the companies that care about us!!!! You literally just laid it out. You say the Japanese companies don’t care about what we want and are in it for the money (suzuki being the worst by milking the same bike for much longer than anyone else). At least the others are still trying and that deserves support. If ktm and husky go under, further development of our bikes would crumble. They are literally running shit and driving competition. Not saying they are the best, just saying they are inspiring awesome changes.

Suzuki milking this bike will continue until you guys stop buying it. I agree the cheap option is cool to have, but buying a brand new bike isn’t the only cheap option... buy used if you can’t afford it. I don’t think people looking into this sport only look at new bikes, say “nope can’t afford it unless it’s 2k cheaper,” then just never pick up motocross. Craigslist, Facebook market, etc etc.

No hard feelings, agree to disagree. I like suzuki and my big hope would be them showing more interest in our sport through keeping up with bike updates. Until I see that, I will not give them another dollar.

reded wrote:

I see two different sides to this Suzuki thing. Their bike is outdated but serviceable and has more potential than 99% of the riders on the...

I see two different sides to this Suzuki thing. Their bike is outdated but serviceable and has more potential than 99% of the riders on the planet but it still appeals to the crowd who don’t need the shootout winner year after year. If you’re THAT late to the party, what’s the use in even going, start you’re own party.

The other side of the coin tells me that maybe they’re the ones doing it right. Instead of throwing money at the bike, put it into contingency and let the grassroots guys earn some cash at the end of the day. If it were easier to make some money at the amateur level, there may be more people still involved or at least interested in the sport.

kiwifan wrote:

99% that is a bit harsh isnt it? I agree with all that the RMZ450 is a decent bike, yes it is down a few (not...

99% that is a bit harsh isnt it?

I agree with all that the RMZ450 is a decent bike, yes it is down a few (not just a couple) HP compared to others, has lesser suspension ability than others, doesnt have ES like others but hey its a decent bike.

Now let us say (for arguements sake) you have a group of riders of the same ability/skills/etc that always race each other, and they all have the other brands apart from one who rides the Zook, 99 times out of 100 the other brand guys will go faster, so what does Zook guy have to do? he has to spend a lot more money getting more HP or getting his suspension upgraded (but he thinks that is ok I got my Zook cheaper so will only end up paying what the others have), then he is AS fast as the others and may definitely win more but then the other guys then hop up their other brands....

Now if you only trail ride, or race locally and perhaps dont give a shit about winning, or are a pro and race against intermediate/expert riders, etc etc then yeah thats great, the Zook may be ideal

Yes, the Suzuki contingency is very very good. And again, the RMZ is a decent bike but certainly not by any means a great bike, compared to others.

Just my humble opinion....

Dirty Points wrote:

Lesser suspension ability? I will buy maybe worse initial setup, but, as a point of argument, the forks are the same ones on your CRF.

mikec265 wrote:

I rode a 18 husky 450 today and I'm a Suzuki guy. No matter what bike I buy the suspension needs redone. If I wasn't such...

I rode a 18 husky 450 today and I'm a Suzuki guy. No matter what bike I buy the suspension needs redone. If I wasn't such a cheap skate I'd by a Husky over a Suzuki. Since I'm a cheap ass I'd buy the Suzuki and still not be much faster. Those Brembo front brakes are pretty friggin awesome.
One thing I don't understand is, I rode an 18 ktm 450 and the 18 husky. The Husky turned better and the power was easier to control. Hated the KTM and loved the Husky. I can't figure it out. I thought they were basically the same bikes.

Sierra Ranger wrote:

A Suzuki RMZ450 is 29 pounds heavier than a KTM 250 two-stroke. Even a trail rider will notice 29 pounds. In the old days, that would...

A Suzuki RMZ450 is 29 pounds heavier than a KTM 250 two-stroke. Even a trail rider will notice 29 pounds. In the old days, that would be like comparing an XR600 to a 250 motocross bike.

malachi177 wrote:

Fuck the haters. Love my ‘19. Its comical reading people here pushing “their opinion” about the bike like its the Gospel😂..yes deadlo I mean you. Thx...

Fuck the haters. Love my ‘19. Its comical reading people here pushing “their opinion” about the bike like its the Gospel😂..yes deadlo I mean you. Thx Team Green, this bike IS very good off road🤘🏻‘

deadlo wrote:

😘😘

Silas444 wrote:

All this talk about whether to not any of us can ride a bike to IT'S fullest potential? Who cares? I want a bike that feels...

All this talk about whether to not any of us can ride a bike to IT'S fullest potential? Who cares? I want a bike that feels so light and well-designed and comfortable it allows me to ride it to MY fullest potential. I've ridden and owned pretty much all of them, and none of them feel similar, let alone the same. Yes, you can get used to anything, including a bike that's the worst in it's class, but you'd have to admit - buying one while knowing that, is a peculiar decision to make.