Suzuki has let go of the R&D department

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5/2/2020 10:29 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/2/2020 10:30 AM

GODZILLA wrote:

Yeah, thanks to Valenti for making the Zook 35 pound heavier than a Katoom...
laughing

Don't think you ever ride a Suzuki yourself.
You're french then you must know that Thomas Do; Aubin; Annelot; Duberos don't complain about the weight!
Photo

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5/2/2020 12:12 PM

These guys would ride anything if you'd give them two free bikes and a box of Snickers bars.
laughing

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5/2/2020 12:16 PM

Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:

I don't want to see any brand go by the wayside, or scale down on R&D. Having said that, I have learned to let the Suzuki ...more

Which is pretty amazing if you consider what a soft skin they have.
tongue

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5/2/2020 12:43 PM

I just purchased a kawasaki bullet train.....seems like they have an awesome R&D department!

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5/2/2020 3:43 PM

deadlo wrote:

That was sarcasm bud. And you actually help prove my point that bringing up Ricky, chad, dungey, stew, roczen riding a suzuki ...more

xrmark wrote:

I feel like you/re one of those people that hates on suzuki just because its the cool thing to do. Like that motomemes page. ...more

deadlo wrote:

My last bike was an rmz 450. I’ve also owned the 250 and an rm125......


Currently own a husky fc450. I really think you ...more

For the record, what year was your last Suzuki? Was the suspension stock? When was it last serviced? Did you play with the clickers and preload?

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5/2/2020 4:35 PM

xrmark wrote:

I feel like you/re one of those people that hates on suzuki just because its the cool thing to do. Like that motomemes page. ...more

deadlo wrote:

My last bike was an rmz 450. I’ve also owned the 250 and an rm125......


Currently own a husky fc450. I really think you ...more

Underground wrote:

For the record, what year was your last Suzuki? Was the suspension stock? When was it last serviced? Did you play with the ...more

2018 rmz 450 for a year, 2012 Rmz450 for about 2-3 years. The 2012 was probably comparable to bikes of that time. The 2018 was absolute shit. I think the 2012 may have been better lmao. Those are bikes I personally owned, so I do have a say in this. I also rode the 2019 with a lot of modifications and suspension work, still a terrible feeling bike. The chassis is straight up not balanced right.

Now own the husky and realize how heavy that bike was also. That weight difference is huge. Mapping on the fly, traction control, balanced bike, e start, way lighter, literally everything about these new bikes are better. Do yourself a favor and BUY one! Not ride your different size buddies for a lap. Just give it a shot. You will not go back. Who knows, hopefully suzuki does come out swinging. I would love that! But seems they are going the opposite way. We should all be pissed, but you guys are so stubborn. Whatever though, I don’t want to argue anymore. Keep your heavy pig and I truly hope you enjoy it.

There is also no way any of u had e start or a new model year bike and went back to suzuki voluntarily. E start alone is worth the money lmao. I can stall in a corner, restart and you would never even know I stalled. How many pros stall or bike cuts on a wreck. So let’s add that kicking time/energy into the equation. I don’t race anymore so that time doesn’t matter, but still dudes I’m telling you E start with weight savings over the zook is amazing. Just to clarify since you guys read only e start and act like that’s the only thing....NO, that’s just a bonus. If it were opposite and only rmz had e start, but everything else the same, Id still choose the others.

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5/2/2020 5:06 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/2/2020 5:09 PM

reded wrote:

I see two different sides to this Suzuki thing. Their bike is outdated but serviceable and has more potential than 99% of the ...more

kiwifan wrote:

99% that is a bit harsh isnt it?

I agree with all that the RMZ450 is a decent bike, yes it is down a few (not just a couple) ...more

Lesser suspension ability? I will buy maybe worse initial setup, but, as a point of argument, the forks are the same ones on your CRF.

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5/2/2020 7:05 PM

For the guys saying the Suzuki is cheaper because it’s less bike....

No other color bike will make me fast enough to make it worth spending an extra couple grand. I’m just as fast on a Suzuki as I was on my YZ250 and on any other bike out there.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

5/2/2020 7:21 PM

My little AX team was on KTMs for the last seven years. Suddenly, no KTM dealers would give me the time of day when it came to a deal for 3-4 bikes. It's not like I was asking for free bikes, I pay for them. We went with Suzuki because of price. Yes, the kickstarter seems like the Flintstones, but damn I've been kicking bikes for 60 years. We beat a lot of other brands this year and my riders were entry level Pros. They were happy to be on any bike I sponsored them on and if we ever start racing again it will be on Suzukis. Photo
Photo

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5/2/2020 7:22 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/4/2020 8:02 AM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

For the guys saying the Suzuki is cheaper because it’s less bike....

No other color bike will make me fast enough to make it ...more

Of course, and the musings of halfwits who have zero grasp of product planning, R+D costs, marketing, distributions affect on sales, amortization, profitably, the state of the US market, or really any clue at all about business or any meaningful topic more technical than what the shift pattern is, are irrelevant. Each post occupies the same amount of space on the page, suggesting they have equal merit, but that merit varies wildly. Most are just random noise on the internet in an attempt to grasp at some sense of importance.

BP

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5/2/2020 7:37 PM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

For the guys saying the Suzuki is cheaper because it’s less bike....

No other color bike will make me fast enough to make it ...more

Brtp4 wrote:

Of course, and the musings of halfwits who have zero grasp of product planning, R+D costs, marketing, distributions affect on ...more

Well, there’s that.

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5/2/2020 7:39 PM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

For the guys saying the Suzuki is cheaper because it’s less bike....

No other color bike will make me fast enough to make it ...more

Brtp4 wrote:

Of course, and the musings of halfwits who have zero grasp of product planning, R+D costs, marketing, distributions affect on ...more

“Each post occupies the same amount of space on the page, suggesting they have equal merit, but that merit varies wildly. Most are just random noise on the internet in an attempt to grasp at some sense of importance.”

....exactly what your post is 😂. What have you contributed to this thread? Calling people halfwits based off a discussion on a thread when you have no clue what any of us do for a living or what we know about business. Id ride with any of you that don’t agree with my posts. No hard feelings, it’s a freaking internet thread meant to spark discussion.

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5/2/2020 7:43 PM

dirtbikemike wrote:

My little AX team was on KTMs for the last seven years. Suddenly, no KTM dealers would give me the time of day when it came to ...more

What mods did you make? And are they 250 or 450? I have a new 250 rmz love it but at my weight softer springs are my next purchase...Hope y’all get racing soon! Stay Safe!

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5/2/2020 8:11 PM

Fuck the haters. Love my ‘19. Its comical reading people here pushing “their opinion” about the bike like its the Gospel😂..yes deadlo I mean you. Thx Team Green, this bike IS very good off road🤘🏻‘Photo

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5/2/2020 8:13 PM

deadlo wrote:

My last bike was an rmz 450. I’ve also owned the 250 and an rm125......


Currently own a husky fc450. I really think you ...more

Underground wrote:

For the record, what year was your last Suzuki? Was the suspension stock? When was it last serviced? Did you play with the ...more

deadlo wrote:

2018 rmz 450 for a year, 2012 Rmz450 for about 2-3 years. The 2012 was probably comparable to bikes of that time. The 2018 was ...more

I had 2009, 2015 rmz450 and 2017 fc450 and I completely understand what you are saying.

Unfortunately a lot of people don't have direct experience or can't take emotion away and be more rational

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5/2/2020 8:14 PM

malachi177 wrote:

Fuck the haters. Love my ‘19. Its comical reading people here pushing “their opinion” about the bike like its the Gospel..yes ...more

😘😘

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5/2/2020 8:17 PM

I did some research on what tracks were open, then went and developed some arm pump.

Photo

If only my RM wasnt so "outdated" ....... wink

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"We don't rent pigs."

5/2/2020 8:44 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/3/2020 6:33 AM

deadlo wrote:

“Each post occupies the same amount of space on the page, suggesting they have equal merit, but that merit varies wildly. Most ...more

It's not that you are happier with your Husky, it is that you are are shitting on anyone that buys a Suzuki.

Here is the thing: people completely skip over the fact that KTM / Husky is a tiny company, their numbers are not interesting to the Japanese, and focusing on the the US market is a money loser. Great bikes, niche company.

The Japanese companies - correctly - know there is no money developing new models. Better to milk the existing ones and try to make small cheap bikes. Whatever you think of me, know that it hurts me as much as you to hear this, but it is OVER for dirt bikes here. Sure, there will always be some hard core users like you - and I - here, and I will be happy to say hi if I see you. But the numbers do not work here for the Japanese anymore period, end of story.

KTM / Husky sells 320,00 models worldwide. Total. Great for them, own one myself, but not really a lot of units. They sell less than 50,000 units of ALL models in the US. Street, dirt, Dual sport, etc. Suzuki used to sell more GSXR 600s - one model - that that in a year. I have it on good authority that nationwide, the 500 EXC sells more units than all the SX models combined. KTM sales in the US are up <4% which is about 2000 more bikes. I am sure most of those are 790s, 1290s, and FI 2T off road models, NOT motocross models. If I had to guess, I would peg KTM NA at selling around 10k of ALL MX models, every displacement, annually in the US. It's probably less. Frankly I scratch my head at how they make the R+D and the marketing budgets line out

The reason KTM is kicking Japan's ass is 1000% because the Japanese are letting them. They cannot make the US market work for them any more.That should concern us all.

Also, people diss Suzuki about being in dire straits but that is not a concern. Suzuki is diversified, and will be fine. OTOH, note that KTM nearly went bankrupt in 2009. Needed concessions from the Austrian government. Needed cash. Only by taking on cash from Bajaj were they able to stay afloat, and they barely own a majority. Bajaj owns 49.8% of KTM. They have a few rough quarters and it is not incomprehensible that they lose control to Bajaj. You know that, right?

That cheap, old tech Suzuki is one of the best things that can happen here. Who fucking cares if it is competitive, if it is affordable, it may bring in some new people. Who then may trade up to more tech bikes. It beats the shit out of a used bike on Craigslist. But some cannot stop themselves from ridiculing people because they don't have e-start. Who cares?

Vomiting my every thought onto the internet is not a thing for me. I try to only post when I have something meaningful to contribute, and go out of my way not to carelessly say inflammatory things. This is my contribution to this thread: Many of the people who claim to love the sport are unwittingly destroying it, because they are utterly lacking in discipline. They cannot stop themselves from trashing people who do not ride the same way they do, right down to having the same bike.

BP

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5/2/2020 9:04 PM

deadlo wrote:

My last bike was an rmz 450. I’ve also owned the 250 and an rm125......


Currently own a husky fc450. I really think you ...more

Underground wrote:

For the record, what year was your last Suzuki? Was the suspension stock? When was it last serviced? Did you play with the ...more

deadlo wrote:

2018 rmz 450 for a year, 2012 Rmz450 for about 2-3 years. The 2012 was probably comparable to bikes of that time. The 2018 was ...more

Agreed off the show room it’s not balanced, it turns too good, how ever your estart argument I’ve seen on many sx races the last few years dudes what seemingly looks like they’re staring at their handlebars trying to get their bikes started. Some places dint even do shootouts anymore because they are literally splitting hairs. The Suzuki still is one of the best turning bikes, also your husky is gunna be like 6 inches longer by the end of the season lol. All the testers say you don’t notice the weight on the track or in the air or in the turns, but you probably only hear what you wanna hear, keep on buying those 10k white dirt bikes, I’ll spend half the money, have 99.9% the bike you have, have more money for cool shit, and not need weird tools to work on it

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5/2/2020 9:05 PM

Brtp4 wrote:

Of course, and the musings of halfwits who have zero grasp of product planning, R+D costs, marketing, distributions affect on ...more

deadlo wrote:

“Each post occupies the same amount of space on the page, suggesting they have equal merit, but that merit varies wildly. Most ...more

Brtp4 wrote:

It's not that you are happier with your Husky, it is that you are are shitting on anyone that buys a Suzuki.

Here is the ...more

Read your post man, and go back and read most of mine. SUPPORT the companies that care about us!!!! You literally just laid it out. You say the Japanese companies don’t care about what we want and are in it for the money (suzuki being the worst by milking the same bike for much longer than anyone else). At least the others are still trying and that deserves support. If ktm and husky go under, further development of our bikes would crumble. They are literally running shit and driving competition. Not saying they are the best, just saying they are inspiring awesome changes.

Suzuki milking this bike will continue until you guys stop buying it. I agree the cheap option is cool to have, but buying a brand new bike isn’t the only cheap option... buy used if you can’t afford it. I don’t think people looking into this sport only look at new bikes, say “nope can’t afford it unless it’s 2k cheaper,” then just never pick up motocross. Craigslist, Facebook market, etc etc.

No hard feelings, agree to disagree. I like suzuki and my big hope would be them showing more interest in our sport through keeping up with bike updates. Until I see that, I will not give them another dollar.

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5/2/2020 9:08 PM

Love you guys. Glad I was able to stir the pot and give you guys something to post about lol. My job is done here. I’m out ✌🏼

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5/2/2020 9:26 PM

deadlo wrote:

Read your post man, and go back and read most of mine. SUPPORT the companies that care about us!!!! You literally just laid it ...more

OK, that is a fair reply, and more diplomatic than I expected. I thank you for it.

Moving up to a better bike, as you did, is ideal. Compliments. That is how it is supposed to work. The only thing I disagree with, and frankly hope to change your mind on, is that the Japanese do care, both they and KTM are in it for the money, and both deserve support. KTM is embarrassing the Japanese, but I do not think the Japanese are indifferent. I think they are worried.

Thanks again.

BP



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5/2/2020 9:41 PM

I rode a 18 husky 450 today and I'm a Suzuki guy. No matter what bike I buy the suspension needs redone. If I wasn't such a cheap skate I'd by a Husky over a Suzuki. Since I'm a cheap ass I'd buy the Suzuki and still not be much faster. Those Brembo front brakes are pretty friggin awesome.
One thing I don't understand is, I rode an 18 ktm 450 and the 18 husky. The Husky turned better and the power was easier to control. Hated the KTM and loved the Husky. I can't figure it out. I thought they were basically the same bikes.

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5/2/2020 10:08 PM

reded wrote:

I see two different sides to this Suzuki thing. Their bike is outdated but serviceable and has more potential than 99% of the ...more

kiwifan wrote:

99% that is a bit harsh isnt it?

I agree with all that the RMZ450 is a decent bike, yes it is down a few (not just a couple) ...more

Dirty Points wrote:

Lesser suspension ability? I will buy maybe worse initial setup, but, as a point of argument, the forks are the same ones on ...more

Yes fork are similar but totally different valving, the shocks are night and day different ....so I stand by my lesser suspension ability ...thanks

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

5/2/2020 10:26 PM

mikec265 wrote:

I rode a 18 husky 450 today and I'm a Suzuki guy. No matter what bike I buy the suspension needs redone. If I wasn't such a ...more

The composite subframe on the Husky give a less stiff feel. Suspension ans ECU settings are a different spec than the KTM and the Husky has a baffle in the muffler to smooth the hit. They feel different on purpose.

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The older I get, the faster I was.

5/2/2020 10:27 PM

What are these guys saying that Suzuki is not putting any money into mx? They had a new 250 just last year! Even threw dual fuel injection on it. They made a bad decision by not doing e start, but theyre still selling bikes. The dealer i know sells less rmzs than his kawis but he steadily sells them. Why doesnt ktm come out with a new bike every month? The pussies. I want an all new redesign every week or im not gonna spend any money. (Sarcasm)

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5/2/2020 11:05 PM

A Suzuki RMZ450 is 29 pounds heavier than a KTM 250 two-stroke. Even a trail rider will notice 29 pounds. In the old days, that would be like comparing an XR600 to a 250 motocross bike.

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5/3/2020 12:47 AM

Sierra Ranger wrote:

A Suzuki RMZ450 is 29 pounds heavier than a KTM 250 two-stroke. Even a trail rider will notice 29 pounds. In the old days, ...more

But why would you?

Its not like anyone on the line was ever racing an XR600 against a 250 motocross bike?

We may as well compare the XR600 to Mick Doohan's NSR500- same principle, right?

Oooohhhhhhh..... You mean for trail riding? Now I get you. Super SUPER important to have a light bike for trail riding..whistling

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The above may be fact or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting. I am not sure, you have no chance.

5/3/2020 12:59 AM

malachi177 wrote:

Fuck the haters. Love my ‘19. Its comical reading people here pushing “their opinion” about the bike like its the Gospel..yes ...more

deadlo wrote:

You know even Travis rides a KTM these days?
Gotta change your number, man, or switch to orange.
laughing

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5/3/2020 1:11 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/3/2020 1:19 AM

Silas444 wrote:

All this talk about whether to not any of us can ride a bike to IT'S fullest potential? Who cares? I want a bike that feels so ...more

You hit the nail on the head with this post. Some of the arguments here in this thread boggles my mind.

I guess that is the result of fanboyism.

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Current fleet of two wheeled vehicles:
- Yamaha YZ450F 2020
- Suzuki GSX-R 600 K7 track spec
- Canyon Sender CF 8.0 2018 Downhill
- White GX Pro 20 Gravel