Budds Creek law suit

Gworm
Posts
2733
Joined
4/5/2017
Location
Monett, MO US
3/14/2020 8:25am
Momus wrote:
The degree of negligence is exactly what these cases are about. My example was blatant. What if a tyre is dislodged onto the track by a...
The degree of negligence is exactly what these cases are about. My example was blatant. What if a tyre is dislodged onto the track by a rider going off and that causes an accident, or an unnanounced kicker?
Gworm wrote:
Those two examples don’t sound like gross negligence to me.
Momus wrote:
That's why juries or expert lawyers turned judges often make the call.🤔
Tires being dislodged by another rider or a kicker developing during the race are totally not negligence. Those are things that are normal and ordinary, as well as expected to happen during a race.
Park a tractor behind a blind jump and then drop a gate full of riders out there? That’s gross negligence.
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Indy mxer
Posts
1839
Joined
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Location
The Villages, FL US
3/14/2020 9:08am Edited Date/Time 3/14/2020 9:09am
Zacka 161 wrote:
I broke my back spent a week in ICU, 2 months in rehab and all my medical costs are covered long term. Guess what I owed...
I broke my back spent a week in ICU, 2 months in rehab and all my medical costs are covered long term.

Guess what I owed?

$0

And the people in the country that payed into the single payer Medicare that covered me and other Australians injured the same pay half as much as you at for healthcare...

I was 20 and Working part time, in America I would have potentially more than a million dollars of debt. At 20. And now a paraplegic...

Public health saved my life and livelihood. And I didn’t have to start a go fund me to pay for it...

Do you wanna know why the VA doesn’t work.... it’s the same reason Obamacare got so expensive.... when have a system that allows the private insurance companies to pick a do choose people they allow in based on risk, then those at higher risk including coming back from war are forced into what is available to them, meaning those become overloaded. A public system fixes this because the pool becomes 300 million people so the cost comes down as the high risk and low risk are all I the pool. The cost comes down for everyone because there’s not publically traded insurance companies as the middle man who is legally required to do everything possible for profit.

Indy mxer wrote:
Dude, stop digging. The hole your're in is deep enough. You keep getting more irrational because nobody will agree with you.
And your grammar sucks!
Zacka 161 wrote:
‘You sound irrational’ ‘your grammar sucks’ Nothing I said was irrational. If you can explain why that would be great. I’m open minded and focused on...
‘You sound irrational’ ‘your grammar sucks’

Nothing I said was irrational. If you can explain why that would be great. I’m open minded and focused on facts.

But if you bring personal experience of a $3000 mri after paying I assume a minimum of $12000 a year in insurance then I’ll bring my experience of public health saving my life and flying me halfway across the country for urgent surgery without billing me anything. So what makes you prefer an expensive private system?

And yes there’s private health insurance in Australia as well for people that want to jump the cue but after paying the Medicare levy and the personal private health insurance it’s still less than the cost in America. Crazy right?

Please tell me what I have wrong about the American system and why it’s really good for America as a whole?
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now?
Plus I had awesome treatment and no waiting.
You just can't seem to handle the fact that many in the US like what we have. You should also stop assuming you know anything about what I have.
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Indy mxer
Posts
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The Villages, FL US
3/14/2020 9:14am Edited Date/Time 3/14/2020 9:16am
Everyone in United Kingdom gets public healthcare It's abolutely brilliant and free Lots of people top up with private healthcare which helps you get quicker treatment...
Everyone in United Kingdom gets public healthcare
It's abolutely brilliant and free
Lots of people top up with private healthcare which helps you get quicker treatment if it's non urgent
Any urgent help for trauma would still be through public system as private healthcare is not set up for emergencies
Free? Lmao!
You're paying for it, just like Canada.

Every healthcare system has it's benefits and issues. I just prefer ours, although it needs more work to improve it.
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1
3/14/2020 9:52am
Rooster wrote:
In Canada, like many other nations with publicly funded healthcare, there's no insurance company markup (and no deductible). Our admin costs for our healthcare system come...
In Canada, like many other nations with publicly funded healthcare, there's no insurance company markup (and no deductible). Our admin costs for our healthcare system come in right around 8% of total costs, which is excellent compared to the US system.

But we pay "sin" taxes on things like tobacco and alcohol. The additional taxes find their way to subsidizing our healthcare costs.

So you could say you're rewarded for leading a healthy lifestyle, in that you pay less tax. If you're going to drink a flat or a fifth a day and smoke two packs, your going to pay more in tax help cover the cost of your unhealthy choices down the road.
Indy mxer wrote:
You pay for healthcare in more ways than one. Your sales tax is 15% in most places when you add up state and national sales tax...
You pay for healthcare in more ways than one. Your sales tax is 15% in most places when you add up state and national sales tax. Plus your income tax is much higher than ours. Not to mention the sin taxes. And the government runs your healthcare.
All good if you just need a regular doctor visit. Good luck if you need a test like an mri and/or surgery. Guy I work with is born and raised in Canada. Blew out his knee playing softball. Waited 6 months for an mri and 5 months more for surgery. If I had that happen here I could have the mri and surgery in the same week.

That said, our system needs work for sure. But I do believe we have some of the best doctors in the world.
Zacka 161 wrote:
You have good doctors and a fucked system. This volleyball story is repeated with the same details and different sports repeatedly. Again public health care is...
You have good doctors and a fucked system. This volleyball story is repeated with the same details and different sports repeatedly. Again public health care is not about takinh care of athletes at the speed of athletes, for that you can get additional private cover. It’s healthcare for the population. Tell me a story of a Canadian who broke a leg and was left with a million dollars of medical debt?

What about a person in Canada who has heart disease and another condition but has to ration their medication so only treats one condition.

These are realities in America, so if the trade off is your mate has to wait 6 months to get a specialty surgery then that’s a fantastic trade off. Because that was a luxury surgery that he may have paid for if his insurance covered it but for anyone else it wouldn’t have been possibly or it would have been hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

So I feel bad for your friend but if that’s as bad as it gets then that’s a fucking good trade off.
Tell me about it. I just had a daughter born in to the NICU with a 3 week stay. Even with insurance paying for a large chunk we're way upside down on medical bills. I'd gladly pay a little more in taxes to make sure no family ever has to go through that again. We're a first world country that struggles with third world medical problems. Capitalism thrives on profits before people when, ironically, the people are the ones who make the profits. It's like rock climbing without a rope. One slip and you're done for.
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The Shop

3/14/2020 10:12am
Indy mxer wrote:
You pay for healthcare in more ways than one. Your sales tax is 15% in most places when you add up state and national sales tax...
You pay for healthcare in more ways than one. Your sales tax is 15% in most places when you add up state and national sales tax. Plus your income tax is much higher than ours. Not to mention the sin taxes. And the government runs your healthcare.
All good if you just need a regular doctor visit. Good luck if you need a test like an mri and/or surgery. Guy I work with is born and raised in Canada. Blew out his knee playing softball. Waited 6 months for an mri and 5 months more for surgery. If I had that happen here I could have the mri and surgery in the same week.

That said, our system needs work for sure. But I do believe we have some of the best doctors in the world.
Zacka 161 wrote:
You have good doctors and a fucked system. This volleyball story is repeated with the same details and different sports repeatedly. Again public health care is...
You have good doctors and a fucked system. This volleyball story is repeated with the same details and different sports repeatedly. Again public health care is not about takinh care of athletes at the speed of athletes, for that you can get additional private cover. It’s healthcare for the population. Tell me a story of a Canadian who broke a leg and was left with a million dollars of medical debt?

What about a person in Canada who has heart disease and another condition but has to ration their medication so only treats one condition.

These are realities in America, so if the trade off is your mate has to wait 6 months to get a specialty surgery then that’s a fantastic trade off. Because that was a luxury surgery that he may have paid for if his insurance covered it but for anyone else it wouldn’t have been possibly or it would have been hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

So I feel bad for your friend but if that’s as bad as it gets then that’s a fucking good trade off.
Tell me about it. I just had a daughter born in to the NICU with a 3 week stay. Even with insurance paying for a large...
Tell me about it. I just had a daughter born in to the NICU with a 3 week stay. Even with insurance paying for a large chunk we're way upside down on medical bills. I'd gladly pay a little more in taxes to make sure no family ever has to go through that again. We're a first world country that struggles with third world medical problems. Capitalism thrives on profits before people when, ironically, the people are the ones who make the profits. It's like rock climbing without a rope. One slip and you're done for.
We are not a third world when it comes to medical. Apparently you never been to a third world. Third world everything is out of pocket with some scary medical facilities.
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jjavaman
Posts
1600
Joined
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Location
CA
3/14/2020 10:17am
Indy mxer wrote:
Dude, stop digging. The hole your're in is deep enough. You keep getting more irrational because nobody will agree with you.
And your grammar sucks!
Zacka 161 wrote:
‘You sound irrational’ ‘your grammar sucks’ Nothing I said was irrational. If you can explain why that would be great. I’m open minded and focused on...
‘You sound irrational’ ‘your grammar sucks’

Nothing I said was irrational. If you can explain why that would be great. I’m open minded and focused on facts.

But if you bring personal experience of a $3000 mri after paying I assume a minimum of $12000 a year in insurance then I’ll bring my experience of public health saving my life and flying me halfway across the country for urgent surgery without billing me anything. So what makes you prefer an expensive private system?

And yes there’s private health insurance in Australia as well for people that want to jump the cue but after paying the Medicare levy and the personal private health insurance it’s still less than the cost in America. Crazy right?

Please tell me what I have wrong about the American system and why it’s really good for America as a whole?
Indy mxer wrote:
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now? Plus I had awesome treatment...
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now?
Plus I had awesome treatment and no waiting.
You just can't seem to handle the fact that many in the US like what we have. You should also stop assuming you know anything about what I have.
And how much do you pay for year round coverage?
Trav138
Posts
1477
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Location
PA US
3/14/2020 10:22am
I'm in ca. Worst roads in the nation with the highest gas taxes and car registration.
Pennsylvania has you covered in the worst roads imo, dangerous and poorly designed. Truckers always rate us as the worst
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Indy mxer
Posts
1839
Joined
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Location
The Villages, FL US
3/14/2020 12:04pm Edited Date/Time 3/14/2020 12:19pm
Zacka 161 wrote:
‘You sound irrational’ ‘your grammar sucks’ Nothing I said was irrational. If you can explain why that would be great. I’m open minded and focused on...
‘You sound irrational’ ‘your grammar sucks’

Nothing I said was irrational. If you can explain why that would be great. I’m open minded and focused on facts.

But if you bring personal experience of a $3000 mri after paying I assume a minimum of $12000 a year in insurance then I’ll bring my experience of public health saving my life and flying me halfway across the country for urgent surgery without billing me anything. So what makes you prefer an expensive private system?

And yes there’s private health insurance in Australia as well for people that want to jump the cue but after paying the Medicare levy and the personal private health insurance it’s still less than the cost in America. Crazy right?

Please tell me what I have wrong about the American system and why it’s really good for America as a whole?
Indy mxer wrote:
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now? Plus I had awesome treatment...
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now?
Plus I had awesome treatment and no waiting.
You just can't seem to handle the fact that many in the US like what we have. You should also stop assuming you know anything about what I have.
jjavaman wrote:
And how much do you pay for year round coverage?
About $8k a year. But as I said our system is certainly not perfect.
But single payer is far from ideal.

Canada has a combined sales tax around 15% and their income tax is much more than ours. The cost of living is very high there.
So it's NOT free.
Anything outside of routine medical care is a wait, sometimes a long one. Acoording to a colleague of mine who was born and raised in Canada

Besides, take a look at the VA if you think our government is good at running a healthcare system as big as ours.
Our system needs some work, but single payer is not the answer, imo

Maybe some kind of hybrid system would work. We do need a way to protect people from large out of pocket expenses. But I prefer to keep it mostly private so we can maintain the quality, choice and availabilty of services.
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Tokyo_Tiddler
Posts
2108
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Location
Somewhere in, NJ US
3/14/2020 6:09pm Edited Date/Time 3/14/2020 6:11pm
JustMX wrote:
But how is the choice to participate in sports with a risk of injury any different than living an unhealthy lifestyle? You don't think there would...
But how is the choice to participate in sports with a risk of injury any different than living an unhealthy lifestyle?

You don't think there would be expenses for obesity, alcohol consumption, smoking, vaping and many other unhealthy choices.
731chopper wrote:
I understand your point and I don’t have the answers on how to do it exactly but that’s why I said I’m somewhat for it and...
I understand your point and I don’t have the answers on how to do it exactly but that’s why I said I’m somewhat for it and I said basic healthcare.

My girlfriend got an IV infusion to help with walking pneumonia she can’t get rid of from an IV bar yesterday. It was $90 and she said that was a lot less expensive than going to her primary care doctor where they charge over $300 for the same thing. I told her the difference is because health insurance is involved at the doctor where as the IV bar actually has to market a price the average cash paying American can afford. I think removing health insurance from a lot of healthcare services would be the best thing to get costs back in line of affordability but, unfortunately, I don’t think that will ever happen.
wisey wrote:
I just got a quote to cut the cancer out of my face. The insurance quote that is set by the insurance company is $2000. I...
I just got a quote to cut the cancer out of my face. The insurance quote that is set by the insurance company is $2000. I have a $4000 deductible. The cash price, not going through insurance, is $1000.
The US system is totally broken and getting worse.. you looks at the list of the most profitable companies in the US the last several years, you will find Amazon, and Apple as expected, but also the private US insurance companies which are just middlemen doing an administrative service.. they are getting more and more aggressive upping premiums and reducing coverage by forcing higher patient copays and introducing what is called "coinsurance".

The only answer is what every other developed country has except for the US and that is a national health insurance system. Americans are paying more than every other country per person for medical care and our statistics are not the best compared to other countries. My job for the last 30 years is to know intimately the health insurance system of every major country around the world working for the biggest private healthcare company in the word, so I know the pros and cons and have lived for many years in a country with nationalized healthcare. The establishment is lying when they tell you that national health insurance will destroy US healthcare and blow up the budget because of the politicians ties with big business like these private health insurance companies. Really easy to see through the lies if you want to listen.. every other country has already been doing it for years withy no problem, but the US can't? These professional conmen will tell you about the UK and Canada where people have to wait for months/ a year for a surgery. These happen to be the worst examples out there and it is not quite like they are saying in their scare tactics, but there are plenty of national systems out there where you choose any doctor or hospital you want, any time you want.. no in network or out of net work issues like the US has, and surgery can be scheduled in similar speed to the US. That is what I experienced I the 15 years in the Japan national health insurance system.

More of you need to see through the smoke and mirrors and support national health insurance for the US.
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SEEMEFIRST
Posts
13640
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Arlington, TX US
3/14/2020 6:24pm
As per usual, this thread has gone completely off the rails.
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Alex.434
Posts
453
Joined
12/12/2016
Location
Warner Springs, CA US
3/14/2020 6:32pm
I'm in ca. Worst roads in the nation with the highest gas taxes and car registration.
Really? What county are you in? I'm in San Diego County and I'm continually impressed with CalTrans upkeep of our roads. We had major winter storms pass thru last year and wash away a lot of our roadways and they were out there fixing them ASAP. I live in a VERY rural area also... so not like it's high traffic priority.

It's funny. You can see exactly where the San Diego (good) to Riverside (bad) county line is based on the roadways. Goes from nice pavement to shit pavement right at the Riverside line. Same if you travel from Orange County (good) to Riverside County. Also San Diego to Imperial County (also bad).
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Zacka 161
Posts
1633
Joined
7/30/2009
Location
Mount Waverley, VIC AU
3/14/2020 9:29pm
High_bend wrote:
It takes a special kind of POS to sign a waiver then sue.
If the option is respect the waiver and go into medical debt up to the eyeballs/bankruptcy or sue....

It doesn’t happen nearly as much in other developed countries because option 1 doesn’t happen. But when it does the only truly logical thing to do is to sue.
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Zacka 161
Posts
1633
Joined
7/30/2009
Location
Mount Waverley, VIC AU
3/14/2020 9:36pm
Indy mxer wrote:
Dude, stop digging. The hole your're in is deep enough. You keep getting more irrational because nobody will agree with you.
And your grammar sucks!
Zacka 161 wrote:
‘You sound irrational’ ‘your grammar sucks’ Nothing I said was irrational. If you can explain why that would be great. I’m open minded and focused on...
‘You sound irrational’ ‘your grammar sucks’

Nothing I said was irrational. If you can explain why that would be great. I’m open minded and focused on facts.

But if you bring personal experience of a $3000 mri after paying I assume a minimum of $12000 a year in insurance then I’ll bring my experience of public health saving my life and flying me halfway across the country for urgent surgery without billing me anything. So what makes you prefer an expensive private system?

And yes there’s private health insurance in Australia as well for people that want to jump the cue but after paying the Medicare levy and the personal private health insurance it’s still less than the cost in America. Crazy right?

Please tell me what I have wrong about the American system and why it’s really good for America as a whole?
Indy mxer wrote:
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now? Plus I had awesome treatment...
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now?
Plus I had awesome treatment and no waiting.
You just can't seem to handle the fact that many in the US like what we have. You should also stop assuming you know anything about what I have.
Yeah yeah, you ignored what I got with $0 out of pocket. And instead you paid $13k...

As stated urgent care is performed as urgent as needed in a single payer system.

Can you please stop saying how the VA sucks without responding to my clear reasons why? Simply the VA sucks because the private insurance companies don’t cover high risk people, like the Vets.... so the VA is purely people that your wonderful private system won’t cover, because it doesn’t suit their needs, which is cash and paying for Vets does not fit their business model.

Surely you can understand this right?

Surely you can understand that even modifying a private system does not fix the fact the the business model is fundamentally opposed to the stated business intent. Please tell me how this can be fixed?
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Tokyo_Tiddler
Posts
2108
Joined
7/25/2009
Location
Somewhere in, NJ US
3/14/2020 10:03pm
Indy mxer wrote:
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now? Plus I had awesome treatment...
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now?
Plus I had awesome treatment and no waiting.
You just can't seem to handle the fact that many in the US like what we have. You should also stop assuming you know anything about what I have.
jjavaman wrote:
And how much do you pay for year round coverage?
Indy mxer wrote:
About $8k a year. But as I said our system is certainly not perfect. But single payer is far from ideal. Canada has a combined sales...
About $8k a year. But as I said our system is certainly not perfect.
But single payer is far from ideal.

Canada has a combined sales tax around 15% and their income tax is much more than ours. The cost of living is very high there.
So it's NOT free.
Anything outside of routine medical care is a wait, sometimes a long one. Acoording to a colleague of mine who was born and raised in Canada

Besides, take a look at the VA if you think our government is good at running a healthcare system as big as ours.
Our system needs some work, but single payer is not the answer, imo

Maybe some kind of hybrid system would work. We do need a way to protect people from large out of pocket expenses. But I prefer to keep it mostly private so we can maintain the quality, choice and availabilty of services.
What do you know about a single payer system from first hand experience or at least from extensive research from the many different payer system around the world? The US is more than not perfect.. it is totally broken. If you talk to the general public, patients, physicians in each of the develop countries, you will hear the most complaints and most all of the financial horror stories from people in the US and it is getting worse by the year. I am pretty sure you don't have any experience or real knowledge since you are quoting the line about quality, choice and availability.. these do exist in most of the single payer systems around the world... and you don't have to worry about going bankrupt or financial ruin,
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Zacka 161
Posts
1633
Joined
7/30/2009
Location
Mount Waverley, VIC AU
3/14/2020 11:00pm
Indy mxer wrote:
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now? Plus I had awesome treatment...
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now?
Plus I had awesome treatment and no waiting.
You just can't seem to handle the fact that many in the US like what we have. You should also stop assuming you know anything about what I have.
jjavaman wrote:
And how much do you pay for year round coverage?
Indy mxer wrote:
About $8k a year. But as I said our system is certainly not perfect. But single payer is far from ideal. Canada has a combined sales...
About $8k a year. But as I said our system is certainly not perfect.
But single payer is far from ideal.

Canada has a combined sales tax around 15% and their income tax is much more than ours. The cost of living is very high there.
So it's NOT free.
Anything outside of routine medical care is a wait, sometimes a long one. Acoording to a colleague of mine who was born and raised in Canada

Besides, take a look at the VA if you think our government is good at running a healthcare system as big as ours.
Our system needs some work, but single payer is not the answer, imo

Maybe some kind of hybrid system would work. We do need a way to protect people from large out of pocket expenses. But I prefer to keep it mostly private so we can maintain the quality, choice and availabilty of services.
Quality, choice and availability of services.

Quality - as a country when compared to other western countries with single payer their is zero evidence that the quality is higher. In fact their is a lot of evidence to the contrary... so guess if you want this you want single payer.

Choice - their is stories of people in America who get sick, the first thing they think is ‘where is the closest hospital in my insurance catchment... in Australia’s single payer system you have a choice of any public hospital in Australia. It’s covered under a single payer. So that’s more choice... not only that their is an additional private system so the choice is ‘any hospital in the country’ or ‘any hospital in the country plus the addition of a choice between private health insurance provided if so desired for specialist care’ - so single payer clearly has more choice.

Availability of services - see above.

So yeah on the three categories you see as a positive to America’s system is even better in a single payer system. Crazy to think about right. I suggest you do some research so that you aren’t a succumbing you the sheeple effect.
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Tokyo_Tiddler
Posts
2108
Joined
7/25/2009
Location
Somewhere in, NJ US
3/14/2020 11:42pm
In the US, even people with medical insurance are afraid to go to the emergency room in an urgent situation because they fear the copays and coinsurance. What kind of access is that? Even crazier.. any doctor can wander into your room, look at your chart and send you a bill and you have no idea who is or what he did. The US system has turned to shit.

Not bad by any means, but the Australian system doesn't top my list among the best single payer systems, but at this point al most anything is better than the US system The US system may be good for the .05% richest people in the US only. In the Australian system, many innovative medicines are not available or are available until many years after other major countries because PBAC does not consider them cost effective at the price level manufacturers need to consider for a launch. It is often one of the last countries to adopt an innovative medicine because the authorities base their decisions on what I consider a flawed approach of QALY-based cost effectiveness. This is the same problem with the UK system. That said, you don't hear many complaints from the Australian public about access which makes it hard for global companies trying to launch innovative medical treatments in that country.

In my opinion, some of the better single payer systems can be found in Japan, Denmark, Austria, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, etc. Germany is good for patients although it can be a nightmare dealing with the government for reimbursement of innovative new treatments.

Bottom of my list is UK, Australia, South Korea, Taiwan, and New Zealand, although they are usually pretty good with primary care treatment and do less well with specialized treatments, oncology and rare diseases since their policy is to focus on services that benefit the broadest population rather than severe diseases that effect fewer patients.

Canada is a mixed bag since each province can be like its own separate country sometimes.

I think the media is totally not doing its job in helping Americans understand the true differences and its frustrating when comparisons are made only to the UK and Canada with lots of twisted mis-info on top of that, Media should play the role of unbiased education of the public instead of only seeking spectacular headlines to generate clicks and empty biased articles. Even Bernie Sanders did a poor job of helping americans understand the differences, pros/cons, and comparative financials. As an American who has spent 30 years working with governments, patients and physicians in all these systems, I am convinced that 99% of Americans would be much happier with any national healthcare system that is run at least half-way decently and efficiently.. but they fear what they don't know and no one is helping them to understand and why I am on my soapbox now.
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Indy mxer
Posts
1839
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
The Villages, FL US
3/15/2020 7:48am
jjavaman wrote:
And how much do you pay for year round coverage?
Indy mxer wrote:
About $8k a year. But as I said our system is certainly not perfect. But single payer is far from ideal. Canada has a combined sales...
About $8k a year. But as I said our system is certainly not perfect.
But single payer is far from ideal.

Canada has a combined sales tax around 15% and their income tax is much more than ours. The cost of living is very high there.
So it's NOT free.
Anything outside of routine medical care is a wait, sometimes a long one. Acoording to a colleague of mine who was born and raised in Canada

Besides, take a look at the VA if you think our government is good at running a healthcare system as big as ours.
Our system needs some work, but single payer is not the answer, imo

Maybe some kind of hybrid system would work. We do need a way to protect people from large out of pocket expenses. But I prefer to keep it mostly private so we can maintain the quality, choice and availabilty of services.
Zacka 161 wrote:
Quality, choice and availability of services. Quality - as a country when compared to other western countries with single payer their is zero evidence that the...
Quality, choice and availability of services.

Quality - as a country when compared to other western countries with single payer their is zero evidence that the quality is higher. In fact their is a lot of evidence to the contrary... so guess if you want this you want single payer.

Choice - their is stories of people in America who get sick, the first thing they think is ‘where is the closest hospital in my insurance catchment... in Australia’s single payer system you have a choice of any public hospital in Australia. It’s covered under a single payer. So that’s more choice... not only that their is an additional private system so the choice is ‘any hospital in the country’ or ‘any hospital in the country plus the addition of a choice between private health insurance provided if so desired for specialist care’ - so single payer clearly has more choice.

Availability of services - see above.

So yeah on the three categories you see as a positive to America’s system is even better in a single payer system. Crazy to think about right. I suggest you do some research so that you aren’t a succumbing you the sheeple effect.
As usual you're making assumptions and inferring people who don't see it your way are stupid.

I've done plenty of reading on this and unlike you, I'm actually part of our system. I'm simply saying it has worked well for me. So stop telling me it hasn't!
Also, I said I paid 3K not 13K.

And it's a fact National healthcare is FAR FROM FREE. Like I said, Canada pays a lot for government run healthcare. That's a fact.

And, you're wrong about the VA. Its for all veterans, meant to be a benefit of lifetime healthcare for them. But it's a mess, with low quality care in many places.
It's totally owned and poorly manged by our government. My son just spent 8 plus years in the Air Force so I know a little bit about it.

All that said, we still have thousands of people every year, from all over the world who want to come here to pursue the American dream. So although we have our flaws, we must be doing something right. Life is good!!


1
Timo_2824
Posts
553
Joined
12/19/2016
Location
Wichita, KS US
3/15/2020 7:51am
Indy mxer wrote:
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now? Plus I had awesome treatment...
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now?
Plus I had awesome treatment and no waiting.
You just can't seem to handle the fact that many in the US like what we have. You should also stop assuming you know anything about what I have.
A lot of companies are moving to the high deductible plans, mine went that way last year. My family deductible is $6000, plus another $6000 out of pocket max before things get covered 100%. Last year we paid the deductible and $5000 of the out of pocket max. This on top of the $400 per month premium. A big issue with our plan is in and out of network since we travel all around the country, it's a huge hassle especially if the website isn't accurate, which it wasn't. I would rather pay a flat tax and know that any Hospital or urgent care facility is in network.
Indy mxer
Posts
1839
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
The Villages, FL US
3/15/2020 8:05am Edited Date/Time 3/15/2020 9:23am
Indy mxer wrote:
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now? Plus I had awesome treatment...
And your reading comprehension isn't very good either. I said after everything, mri, surgery and pt I owed $3K. Understand now?
Plus I had awesome treatment and no waiting.
You just can't seem to handle the fact that many in the US like what we have. You should also stop assuming you know anything about what I have.
Timo_2824 wrote:
A lot of companies are moving to the high deductible plans, mine went that way last year. My family deductible is $6000, plus another $6000 out...
A lot of companies are moving to the high deductible plans, mine went that way last year. My family deductible is $6000, plus another $6000 out of pocket max before things get covered 100%. Last year we paid the deductible and $5000 of the out of pocket max. This on top of the $400 per month premium. A big issue with our plan is in and out of network since we travel all around the country, it's a huge hassle especially if the website isn't accurate, which it wasn't. I would rather pay a flat tax and know that any Hospital or urgent care facility is in network.
Yep there's no perfect system. My company offers different plans. Some with low deductibles. So it has worked very well for me and many of my coworkers. But there is certainly an argument to be made for a public option.

I just don't want to be forced into it. I don't have a lot of faith that our government can run such a big and complex healthcare system like ours for 330 million people. Especially when I talk with my colleague from Canada and I watch how the VA is run.

But there are many opinions on this, so we probably need to agree to disagree.
yz133rider
Posts
5033
Joined
8/1/2013
Location
Avondale, PA US
3/15/2020 8:13am Edited Date/Time 3/15/2020 8:23am
Indy mxer wrote:
About $8k a year. But as I said our system is certainly not perfect. But single payer is far from ideal. Canada has a combined sales...
About $8k a year. But as I said our system is certainly not perfect.
But single payer is far from ideal.

Canada has a combined sales tax around 15% and their income tax is much more than ours. The cost of living is very high there.
So it's NOT free.
Anything outside of routine medical care is a wait, sometimes a long one. Acoording to a colleague of mine who was born and raised in Canada

Besides, take a look at the VA if you think our government is good at running a healthcare system as big as ours.
Our system needs some work, but single payer is not the answer, imo

Maybe some kind of hybrid system would work. We do need a way to protect people from large out of pocket expenses. But I prefer to keep it mostly private so we can maintain the quality, choice and availabilty of services.
Zacka 161 wrote:
Quality, choice and availability of services. Quality - as a country when compared to other western countries with single payer their is zero evidence that the...
Quality, choice and availability of services.

Quality - as a country when compared to other western countries with single payer their is zero evidence that the quality is higher. In fact their is a lot of evidence to the contrary... so guess if you want this you want single payer.

Choice - their is stories of people in America who get sick, the first thing they think is ‘where is the closest hospital in my insurance catchment... in Australia’s single payer system you have a choice of any public hospital in Australia. It’s covered under a single payer. So that’s more choice... not only that their is an additional private system so the choice is ‘any hospital in the country’ or ‘any hospital in the country plus the addition of a choice between private health insurance provided if so desired for specialist care’ - so single payer clearly has more choice.

Availability of services - see above.

So yeah on the three categories you see as a positive to America’s system is even better in a single payer system. Crazy to think about right. I suggest you do some research so that you aren’t a succumbing you the sheeple effect.
Indy mxer wrote:
As usual you're making assumptions and inferring people who don't see it your way are stupid. I've done plenty of reading on this and unlike you...
As usual you're making assumptions and inferring people who don't see it your way are stupid.

I've done plenty of reading on this and unlike you, I'm actually part of our system. I'm simply saying it has worked well for me. So stop telling me it hasn't!
Also, I said I paid 3K not 13K.

And it's a fact National healthcare is FAR FROM FREE. Like I said, Canada pays a lot for government run healthcare. That's a fact.

And, you're wrong about the VA. Its for all veterans, meant to be a benefit of lifetime healthcare for them. But it's a mess, with low quality care in many places.
It's totally owned and poorly manged by our government. My son just spent 8 plus years in the Air Force so I know a little bit about it.

All that said, we still have thousands of people every year, from all over the world who want to come here to pursue the American dream. So although we have our flaws, we must be doing something right. Life is good!!


He said 13k Because of your 8k in weekly/monthly fees plus the 3k in fees for the mri, surgery etc. So he rounded up to try to prove his point.

Then zacka said the same thing would have cost him $0 in his country. Thats entirely untrue. The money is still coming from the people. The government doesnt produce anything, it only takes from those who do produce. So govt run healthcare is still entirely funded by the tax payers. So your taxes, income taxes, property taxes, whatever name they put to it will reflect that. And is almost assuredly higher than in the us.


My problem with all of this is nobody is taking responsibility for themselves. Nobody plans, nobody saves, nobody is ready before they start a family, they constantly set themselves and their children, and their communities, and then their countries up for failure, by not doing the common sense things. Things that take planning, and discipline and are now considered old, like way old, fashioned.

Then as they run into problem after problem, as everyone will face problems and have no way to handle it because every step of the way theyve been incredibly negligent, they look for the govt or the "rich" to bail them out or to be angry at for holding them back/down and taking all the money from them causing them to be poor.

Its not just healthcare, this applies to so many big issues in the modern world. Everyone's living on emotion and instant gratification, with zero regard for responsibilities, discipline, delayed gratification, sacrifice for a safer and better future for themselves and their children.

I could go on and on. Yes big insurance sucks. Yes the government sucks. Neither are truly looking to help you only take from you. Its up to you to make better choices, elevate yourself and then your family tree after you and those around you. If you're looking for it to be "free" you're missing the likely 30-40+ % missing from your salary thats going to the entity that makes it "free."

Lets take a totally unrelated topic just for a second to relate to this unjust way of modern thinking.

New cars are said to be so expensive and so out of reach for average people. And also the average car payment in america is over $500 for like 70 or 80 month term. Its something outragously long.

Any way, theres plenty of brand new hyundai accents with a 10 year warranty for about 15k brand new which would be MASSIVELY less than 500 for 80 months. More like 200ish for 60 months.

But people dont want that. They dont want to accept where they are currently. They want the brand new higher end model for 50k while earning a 60k yearly salary with 2 kids and a 270k mortgage payment. Then when disaster strikes, like an illness or injury They are screwed... Discipline, and delayed gratification. People are leading lives they cant afford with zero self reponsibility of it.

I dont feel obligated that i should have to pay for other people's mistakes. For other people's poor planning and budgeting.

Thats what all the govt run programs do. They make the people who earn, produce, save, and plan, pay for all those who dont.

Imagine if all the people with 84 month $500 car payments had a paid for $5000 honda civic instead, that's 1000s upon 1000s in each persons bank account to be ready for life's issues and thats "insurance" against life. But theyd rather the new lexus 50k suv, with $0 in the bank, $0 insurance against life's problems, $0 inheritance and college fund for their children. But thank god they drove a nice new car, in a 3000 sq ft house, with a $1200 financed cell phone, etc etc.
6
1
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
3/15/2020 8:18am
So... no word on the kid, and the lawsuit
2
dkurtd
Posts
1113
Joined
4/15/2018
Location
TN US
3/15/2020 8:27am
I came to a MX forum to read about a lawsuit affecting a MX track. Instead of finding out anything about said track it turns into a shitshow about government versus private health insurance. Might as well go read Yahoo.
3
3/15/2020 8:54am
Timo_2824 wrote:
A lot of companies are moving to the high deductible plans, mine went that way last year. My family deductible is $6000, plus another $6000 out...
A lot of companies are moving to the high deductible plans, mine went that way last year. My family deductible is $6000, plus another $6000 out of pocket max before things get covered 100%. Last year we paid the deductible and $5000 of the out of pocket max. This on top of the $400 per month premium. A big issue with our plan is in and out of network since we travel all around the country, it's a huge hassle especially if the website isn't accurate, which it wasn't. I would rather pay a flat tax and know that any Hospital or urgent care facility is in network.
Is your insurance provided by your employer? If so, remember they are probably paying a big chunk monthly as well to subsidize your $400 premium.
1
1
Indy mxer
Posts
1839
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
The Villages, FL US
3/15/2020 9:22am
Timo_2824 wrote:
A lot of companies are moving to the high deductible plans, mine went that way last year. My family deductible is $6000, plus another $6000 out...
A lot of companies are moving to the high deductible plans, mine went that way last year. My family deductible is $6000, plus another $6000 out of pocket max before things get covered 100%. Last year we paid the deductible and $5000 of the out of pocket max. This on top of the $400 per month premium. A big issue with our plan is in and out of network since we travel all around the country, it's a huge hassle especially if the website isn't accurate, which it wasn't. I would rather pay a flat tax and know that any Hospital or urgent care facility is in network.
tcannon521 wrote:
Is your insurance provided by your employer? If so, remember they are probably paying a big chunk monthly as well to subsidize your $400 premium.
This is true. But who do you think subsidizes Medicare or a any government plan? We do.
Anyone saying it's free is ignorant of the facts.
1
JustMX
Posts
5246
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
TN US
3/15/2020 9:40am
burn1986 wrote:
So... no word on the kid, and the lawsuit
I know of track related litigation that has dragged on for about 5 years after the incident.

I think even the rich Cain aka baby arm, aka loose handlebars aka single to tabletop dragged out close to that.

As far as the kid's condition, unless the family is posting here, the rest is speculation.
3/15/2020 11:45am
I'm in ca. Worst roads in the nation with the highest gas taxes and car registration.
Alex.434 wrote:
Really? What county are you in? I'm in San Diego County and I'm continually impressed with CalTrans upkeep of our roads. We had major winter storms...
Really? What county are you in? I'm in San Diego County and I'm continually impressed with CalTrans upkeep of our roads. We had major winter storms pass thru last year and wash away a lot of our roadways and they were out there fixing them ASAP. I live in a VERY rural area also... so not like it's high traffic priority.

It's funny. You can see exactly where the San Diego (good) to Riverside (bad) county line is based on the roadways. Goes from nice pavement to shit pavement right at the Riverside line. Same if you travel from Orange County (good) to Riverside County. Also San Diego to Imperial County (also bad).
Everywhere on the 10 and every LA freeway. The roads not a highway are worse. A rich area like west LA even there roads like sunset is very dangerous.
1
Timo_2824
Posts
553
Joined
12/19/2016
Location
Wichita, KS US
3/15/2020 3:07pm
I'm going to throw it out there, my dad was born in 1960 for the adjusted for inflation cost of $800. I was born in the mid 80's for adjusted price of $7000. My son was born in 2016 and the bill sent to insurance was $26,000 after we paid the $2000.00 remaining on our deductible, The US system started breaking in the 70's and has taken off like a rocket. I wonder how much J-Mart had to payout for his back surgeries.
5
crusher773
Posts
2013
Joined
12/23/2009
Location
Coweta, OK US
3/15/2020 3:30pm
Mr. Knobby wrote:
Insurance companies ARE NOT in the business of insuring people, they are in the business of making money for their shareholders. They make money for the...
Insurance companies ARE NOT in the business of insuring people, they are in the business of making money for their shareholders. They make money for the shareholders by NOT doing what they advertise to their clients - by not paying out claims. Their model is to sign up as many people to pay for insurance as possible, and pay out as little as possible. Period. Insurance companies have made it so difficult to get your claim payed out that you need a team of expensive and high powered lawyers to force the issue. The more claims they pay out, the smaller the profits, the less they make for the shareholders and the more they are punished on the stock market. It's pretty obvious these things are antithetical to each other and will never resolve into anything workable. When they do need to pay out, they generally go looking for other parties to sue in order to recoup their losses or at least share them. In the end, there will be almost no high-risk activities undertaken by normal people without elite level financial resources. That will be the result of a market determined insurance industry.
Yeah I've worked for 3 insurance companies and none of them were like this. Not talking health insurance it's a whole different animal. You can't say all are like that though customer service is heavily pushed because the market is so competitive.
1
1
Tokyo_Tiddler
Posts
2108
Joined
7/25/2009
Location
Somewhere in, NJ US
3/15/2020 3:46pm Edited Date/Time 3/15/2020 3:50pm
Timo_2824 wrote:
I'm going to throw it out there, my dad was born in 1960 for the adjusted for inflation cost of $800. I was born in the...
I'm going to throw it out there, my dad was born in 1960 for the adjusted for inflation cost of $800. I was born in the mid 80's for adjusted price of $7000. My son was born in 2016 and the bill sent to insurance was $26,000 after we paid the $2000.00 remaining on our deductible, The US system started breaking in the 70's and has taken off like a rocket. I wonder how much J-Mart had to payout for his back surgeries.
This is a good example of how a market based system doesn't work well in the case of healthcare.. it worked for a while in the US until the for profit companies started to get really greedy. When your child is very sick or your leg bone is sticking out of your skin, it is difficult to have a fair negotiation between buyer and supplier as with other services in a market based system. At the same time, the current administration is reducing consumer protection and the public needs protection from greedy insurance companies and healthcare providers.

I am a capitalist and believe that market systems should be supported as far as possible with limited government involvement, but should always look to protect consumers from the shortcomings of a market system which can happen easily if for-profit entities have too much market power relative to the consumers. The government is not perfect, but there are certain areas that it can do better than most market systems such as national infrastructure, military/ defense, and social security which includes both retirement, employment, and medical benefits.

Right now we have a reverse-Robin Hood type system where they rob from the poor and give to the rich supported by the current corrupt political system. They will try to convince you that what every other develop country has been doing successfully for decades will result in the collapse of the US system, loss of choice, skyrocketing costs and reduced access and quality. Shame on you if you believe it. The current system is already resulting in reduced choice with the in/out of network costs, skyrocketing costs are happening as the private insurance companies jack up premiums and shift costs to you in the form of increased copays and coinsurance, deductibles are climbing higher and higher, and this results in reduced access and quality. Physicians are getting squeezed too by the insurance companies so they try to see more patients in a given hour and that impacts quality of care. The establishment that is promoting this bad state of affairs will mix up the nuances of communism and socialism to scare you that your freedom is being taken away, but it couldn't be further from the truth. We have had social security programs for a long time in a democratic and free united states... ever since the creation of Medicare and you should look at national health insurance for all as an extension of a program that most people in the US already support.

Also remember that private hospitals and physicians, as well as supplementary private health insurance, with free choice to chose any doctor you prefer, can still exist within a national health insurance system, because that is the way it already works in most other developed countries. In fact you will have more choice in choosing your doctor and hospital because we won't have anymore of this in-network/ out of network bullshit. We will have a lot less angry people in the US if healthcare is one less thing that we don't have to worry about personally bankrupting us.
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5
GuyB
Posts
35722
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
3/15/2020 9:45pm
Zacka, this thread is...well, was...about a rider injured here in the U.S. We seem to have hit a major tangent here. Deleting a bunch of messages didn't get to the message through, so I'll drop this here.

Health insurance and how it's administered here in the U.S. is invariably intertwined with politics. We don't do politics in here. Not on regular years, and for sure not in election years. I also wouldn't presume to tell you how insurance works in Australia, or how it SHOULD work.

Let's let this one go.
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